NEURAL CRITICS OF BABA FAIL
Those Sai devotees who have said not to do anything about criticism about our Swami, appearing on some web pages, please go through the following excerpts of a letter written by me to a Loving Sai brother and I hope that explains why I want to fight these criticisms. In fact I appreciate very much DS for the initiative he has taken to make people aware of what is going on in the "Neural Surfer" web page.
Excerpts:
You must have seen my site “also meant to counter, malicious propaganda against our Swami” in which I have posted a copy of my recent E-mail to Dr. Lane. I have thoroughly gone through the utterances of Dr Lane and his affiliates and also your marathon replies to what ever is “Said” and uttered. May Swami give you long and a healthy life so that you can fight with all the might against evil throughout.
However I am perturbed now. I have got some letters from some Sai Devotees to "leave it to Swami" and not bother about these slanderous campaigns. Also I have seen some postings by some members of the Sainet. Now this is some thing I am not able to agree with nor able to comprehend. Incidentally I would not have known about the site of Dr. Lane had not “ds” written asking people to write protest letters asking for the removal of the slanderous web site. Having known about this “evil” I am unable to keep silent.
I will just narrate an experience I had this morning while I was returning in a Bus from Connaught Place to my residence at Green Park Extn. In Delhi, in buses, some seats are reserved for ladies. At a midway - stop a lady ( not the affluent and literate type) with a small child boarded the bus. I was standing along with a few others. There was no vacant seat.
A young man of about 27 years was occupying a lady’s seat. I waited for some time for him to offer the seat to the lady. He did not. Nor any other gentleman in the bus came forward to offer a seat for this lady standing dangerously with the child. I could not withstand this inhumanness and I requested the youth to offer his seat to the lady. Initially he declined saying “when that lady was not requesting the seat, why I should voluntarily offer my seat?” However, Thanks to My Lord, utlimately kindness replaced his vanity and he offered his seat to the lady. This is not my first experience. This has happened most of the times whenever I travelled in the bus. Even my wife used to virtually quarrel with me saying why should I be entering in areas that do not directly concern me/us and why should I go about reforming the world.
My argument is. Supposing bad fruit gets into a basketful of good fruits, don’t we pick out the bad fruit and throw it away. Do we keep quiet thinking “let God take care of it”. Why there should be “courts” Policing, Judiciary, Social security systems etc. etc. if God is going to take care of everything. I am not all saying we should play a supportive role to Swami nor act His PR wo/men.
My point is ,if God did not want us to fight out evils why should there be “shrishti” at all. Are we created just for “procreations” and reciting Lord’s name. Don’t we have a role to play when the world or society at large is under threat, be it due to anything.? When there are epidemics don’t’ we fight against them? Do we keep quiet leaving everything to God?
Today 28.12.98 morning, I have again sent the following e-mail to Dr. Lane and pray to our Lord that Dr Lane be mended and no bad should come to him because of his own negative thinking.
"Dear Dr. Lane
Hope you have had a merry Christmas. Wish you a happy, properous and "soul-searching" year.
You have not answered my e-mails. Nor have you given me the e-mail addresses of Mr Venu and few others who have, out of ignorance, made critical comments about Sri Sathya Sai Baba through your web site.
I repeat that the extreme care you have taken in the case of JR you have not exercised in the case of Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Even now it is not too late. You can always undo what you have done by owning your mistake, remove the slanderous comments and serve humanity in useful ways.
Never think for a moment that any sai devotee will scold you even, unlike the JR followers.
May the God, who you believe in, give you strength and prosperity for really doing useful service to society at large.
With kindest regards
Yours sincerely V. Krishnan
Please see below the reply I got today 30.12.98 from Dr. Lane and you can see for yourself, the cooperative stance he is now taking. I feel half the battle is won with our swami's blessing. Is it not strange that, typographical error as it may be though, the first "I" he uses is a "humble 'i' "?!
---------------------------------------------------------------I am sorry but I again disagree with you about Sathya Sai Baba. First of all, read what Said says in his essays. He is quite clear about his own experiences.
Second, go read Tal Brooke's account of Sai Baba.
Third, I have been the subject of a worldwide smear campaign by a few followers of Sathya Sai Baba who feel that being dishonest and misleading is the best way to get me off the web. A series of misinformed letters have been sent to UCSD and to MTSAC about my website concerning Sai Baba.
What is on my website is something quite simple:
a debate between pro and con factions.
I don't see why such a debate should be upsetting. Truth will, as the cliche' says, win in the end.
I would be happy to put your voice in the stew. But you should be informed that my UCSD site has been shut down due to attacks from certain Sai devotees.
My site is now located at MTSAC and TRIPOD. Send whatever letter you wish to my hotmail address and I will put it online or i can link to your website.thanks
dave
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The following is the e-mail I sent in return to Dr. Lane
December 31, 1998
Dear Dr. Lane
Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Many thanks for your E-mail. I appreciate your position and also thank you for agreeing to post my views on your site as well as provide a link to my site:
http://geocities.datacellar.net/ResearchTriangle/Facility/4014
This only shows you are quite open and receptive to all ideas. However, I want to stress here, that, there is a very thin line of demarcation between “criticism” and “satire” and between ‘satire’ and “slander”. There was a Tamil Divine Poetess by name “Auvaiyar”, who prayed to Lord Ganesha to give her old age as she found her beauty and youth “obstructive” and the Lord granted her wish. One of her many wise songs was “What ever one has learnt is just a grasp’s measure and in contrast, what has to be learnt is as immense as this world itself”.
You know Science itself is born out of NeScience (want of knowledge). We keep on learning every second, every minute, every hour and every day. The learning is never complete. You must have read the five volumes of “Collected Papers” of Sigmund Freud. You know how people initially revolted against him for associating “a baby’s suckling the mother’s breast for milk” with an act of sex. Then people agreed with him. But that part of Freudian theory was shredded later and now a days ( not to my knowledge) nobody thinks of sex when a mother breast feeds her baby. The feelings are definitely different. A mother feels really divine and different when her child suckles her breast for milk. You just can not associate this with sexual molestation.
In India, especially in the Southern part , all mothers give oil bath to their children. The children (of both sex, up to the age of 12/13) stand naked in front of their mothers who apply oil (mostly gingily ) on the entire body of the child, including the private parts and there is no sex involvement in it. Why, Said, I think is a Muslim and must have undergone “Sunnath” a ritual which has to be compulsorily performed on every Muslim boy. Under this ritual the foreskin of a boy’s organ is cut and removed. Is there an act of sex in it though the very outcome of it has some sexual significance?. What feelings did Said undergo when he had undergone this ritual?
You know, the extreme opposite of love is hatred. For some reason Said fell away from Sri Sathya Sai Baba and he had become a misguided youth. He himself had admitted about his ‘Onanism’ – and incidentally you know about the etymology of “Onanism”, no body condemns Bible because it produced “Onanism” and why criticise Baba especially when we all know for certain that there was no sexual motivation, as time and again Bon has pointed out.
Has anyone said including “Said” that he was ever sexually stimulated? No one has said that. As Bon has always pointed out rightly Said had every opportunity to seek clarification from Baba Himself. But Said kept quite at that time and later started uttering falsehood which normally Love-turned-hatred persons do.
Venu says a father was arrested in Australia for sexually molesting boys. Of course people must have been clear that the father indeed molested the boys for sexual gratification. I am not aware of the details. But how can Venu compare the father’s act with that of Sri Sathya Sai Baba simply going by statements of others. It is complete ignorance on his part.
And what I do not comprehend is how a person of eminence like you Dr. Lane, could be guided by unsubstantiated statements of people. Should you not have taken the extreme caution you have taken as in the case of JR? And one can not put all “gurus” and “swamis” in the same bracket. Are you aware that Sri Sathya Sai Baba advises ladies and gents to sit separately in the crowds, even husbands and wives and relatives. The ideas is to prevent the minds from getting distracted. Do you think such a Divinity will perform an act that can be associated with sex? It is a question of perception. You have said many ex-devotees have admitted having been with Baba in a compromising position. Is what Said described , a “ compromising position”. Dr. Lane, please think further. Please, I repeat “please” do not equate Our Swami with ordinary gurus like.... I do not want to name any body. I know there are plenty of gullible persons in this world. But millions can not be fools nor foolish all the time. Why don’t you come out of your precipitated opinions and make a thorough study of Baba. For the present leave out all the controversies including those about the miracles. Just try to make a visit to His Ashram without disclosing your identity .Stay there for a few days, mingle with the crowd, see for yourself the self-imposed discipline of the people who visit in multitudes daily, look for yourself how the thousands of "Seva dals" work in rotation absolutely voluntarily and with complete dedication. You will be amazed and convinced of the serenity and divinity predominant there. Then, no persuading will be needed for the removal of the slandering comments by Said and others from your web site.
I have not yet gone through Tal Brooke’s versions. Will deal with it eventually. I am not against any of the persons individually nor am the type at all to get provoked and angry with people just because they do not subscribe to my views. One should live with criticism. If one is able to convince others it is okay otherwise there should not be any mudslinging.
Well Dr. Lane. I am not holding any doctorate. I am only a Commerce Graduate with a diploma in business management. I did my Executive Master’s Programme in International Trade from the Institute of Foreign Trade only this year (courtesy, Oxfam (UKI) my formal employers)besides securing an International Quality Auditor Certificate passing out the necessary examination (ISO). I value a Doctor's degree much more. But I feel I have some knowledge to counter criticisms against Sri Sathya Sai Baba. No one had asked me to counter the criticisms, but I felt morally obliged. I do not mean any offence to any one including your learned self.
(to be continued)With regards
V. Krishnan
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Please go through the following e-mail exchanges.
Dear Dr. Lane
I shall appreciate very much if you will post our exchange of our
correspondence in your "neural surfer" web page in all fairness. I sm sure, you being a scholar, will be fair too.
I have lots of things to argue about. Dr. Lane, I have never lost any battle. Most of the battles I have won even against the powerful Government departments and big guys eventhough I am not a very rich or influential man nor the type to indulge in any type of mudslinging on others. In fact most of the Sai devotees you will find very cordial even while fighting against all odds (take the example of Bon himself). My victories are mainly because of my conviction and God's support. It is essential that Mr. Venu also comes online. So
far both the e-mail addresses given by him have turned out to be inaccessible, my mails got returned from both the addresses.
I am sorry for bothering you like this. But you must be prepared for this having, generated a site like the "Neural Surfer"."And do not expect "fame" to come to you so easily."
With regards and best wishes
Yours sincerely
V. Krishnan
http://geocities.datacellar.net/ResearchTriangle/Facility/4014
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:49:30 -0800 (PST)
The original message was received at Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:15:09 +1100 from sso@localhost
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:04:09 -0800 (PST)
Dear Dr. Lane
Further to your reply in response to my e-mail of the 3rd Dec, I sent
you the following e-mail
a couple of days back. I am now copying it to Mr. Venu also (because
he appears to be very concerned about what is going on in his country)
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Dear Dr. Lane
Thanks for your reply. You have brushed aside my e-mails with just an atheistic response. While I have the greatest regards for you as a research scholar, I feel you have not personally taken much pains to verify into alleged scandalous charges against Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
I do agree there had been many and there are many, even today, many so called Gurus and Swamis who are cheating the world. I know and I do not want to name them. But you must also be aware that even the mightiest and the most intelligent can not be cheating the whole world for all the days.
A couple of years back there was a "Swami" in Tamil Nadu (South
India)who copying "Sathya Sai Baba" was fooling a lot of people. He was running educational institutions etc. etc. and he had a huge following. However he was caught red handed and photographed in compromising positions with ladies and it became a public scandal.
The law intervened and now he is in jail.
Just as some devotees of Sri Sathya Sai Baba could be exaggerating in some instances, in the same way these ex-devotees can also be exaggerating in their charges.
Can you please give me all or atleast a few of their contact
numbers/addresses so that I would like to interact with them with a view to ascertainig facts.
You should not have precipitated and pre-conceived notions
about"Godmen".
You ask "Why Sai Baba should not produce the biggest diamond in the world and sell it and feed the poor". Are you not aware? He is doing much more than that. He has built the costliest "Superspecialty Hospital" at Puttaparthi which provides the international standard treatment absolutely free? Are you not aware about the free drinking water projects executed under his supervision?
There are plenty of colleges and schools run by Him absolutely free.
Even the sale proceeds of the biggest diamond would not have been able
to produce such institutions.
My desire is to illuminate the dark "Lanes and by-Lanes" . I hope you open youself for further discussions rather than have "one track of mind".
Regards
V. Krishnan
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Dear Dr. Lane
I have gone through your entire write up about how you have exposed JR, about "Del Mar Robbery" etc. My regards and respect towards you has grown multifold.
In fact I have heard about it in the mid 80s itself from my UK
friends. Some of them actually used to brush aside the entire episode, saying that "David and JR could not agree on a compromise" and that resulted in his exposure.
I certainly do not believe in such rumours. Because A man of your
scholastic calibre will never compromise with people like JR. And very
rightly you had exposed him with probably grave risk to yourself and
your family (His "Red Monk Disease" eventually could not affect you
nor were you scared or felt threatened by the robbery or other threats)
My observation here is, in the case of JR, you have personally
investigated his case and brought out everything in the open. (Of
course you regret that despite your exposing him, his popularity has grown much more.)
However in the case of Sri Sathya Sai Baba you seem
to have rushed to publish whatever came your way from "probably
disgruntled ex-sai dsevotees" and I do not think you took as much
trouble as you took in the case of JR to investigate thoroughly. And that I think, is not very responsible journalism befitting the
scholarly stature of a person like Dr. David Lane.
You have simply reached the conclusion that after all, "gurus" are one way or other replicas of JRs or other such types.
Take the case of Mr. Venu. Time and again he had stressed that he was concerned about what was going on in his motherland, even though he lived far away in Australia. The deaths (or murders) at Puttaparthi Ashram, according to him were rocking the whole country and naturally he was concerned to know the full details about those "murders". Of course that was his prerogative. What, however, amazes me is that such a patriotic person does not seem to have voiced his concern in any open forum on the web page or any where (not that I know of, if indeed he had raised his concern I will love to have a reference
cited) about the suspicious dceath of Nagarwala (when Indira Gandi was
the PM) and much later about the murder of the India's No.1. Badminton
Player, Modi and subsequent marriage of his wife with Mr. Sanjay
Singh,( the main accused and tried for the murder and later acquitted
by high court) who was congress minister also. These people, I mean
the PM and the minister's' had greater roles to play in the future of
India, very much more than Sri Sathya Sai Baba whose roles were
limited to religious/educational activities only and who, Venu himself
had admitted, had no role to play in the deaths of some people in the
Ashram. Yet, he was vehemently vociferous against Sai Baba just
because these murders took place in "His Ashram" and simply
questioning the veracity in Bon's replies, more because "He (Bon was
an outsider to India while he (Venu) though away from India was an
Indian and concerned about his country (well have I wrongly read
between lines?) In my humble opinion Mr. Bon is much more attached to India
than many India born Indians who have left their motherland for their
own prosperity (nothing wrong in that, as long as one does not throw
stones in others' glass houses).
I will now stop here reserving my analysis of his staments of "some
Father's arrest in Australia" comparing that with what Sri Sai Baba
had been doing, for posting later after hearing from you (and if Venu
is available, from him also)
I will continue writing to you, because I feel you have actually erred
(even sinned I would say) by writing the way you have done, about Sri
Sathya Sai Baba equating him with some "materialistic" self styled
guru (who according to your own statement was a close friend of yours).
Regards
V. Krishnan
_________________________________________________________
Following are the copies my first e-mail, reminder and then Dr. Lanes's reply. They are reproduced as copied by Dr. Lane along with his reply
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>A few days ago I had sent to you the following e-mail through your
Neural Surfer Website. I am not sure if it reached you. Hence I am
sending it to you again.
Please do not take anything personal. Even R. K. Karanjia was a very
strong critic of Sathya Sai Baba. Perhaps you are aware how he was
transformed after he had an interview with Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
I myself was not a believer in Him for a long time.(but however I did
not participate in, or contribute to, any crticisms against him) But
now I am convinced about his divinity.You have every right to keep
your views. I only request to you make a thorough investigation of
whatever is written to you by whosoever and then only start supporting
those views. You may however publish anybody's article/report
without owning responsiblity, but disclosing the source. Not that I am
trying to teach you anything. You are a professional as well as a scholar.
Hoping to have lively sessions of correspondence with you. With regards
Yours sincerely V. Krishnan
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Dear Dr. Lane
Some people attain fame (infamy?) by always questioning and
challenging everything. Some have fame and greatness thrust upon them.
Some are born great. I myself was not a sai-devotee until 1996. But
subsequent events in my life, as well as past events have proved
beyond doubt that He has indeed been responsible for the miracles that
have happened to me.
For one, I was a chain smoker from 1965 to 1991 Sep when all of a
sudden I gave up smoking abruptly one fine morning. Later I learnt
that my mother had written a letter to Sai Baba requesting him to make
me give up smoking. You may not believe it.
I have never had any interviews with him. Only had a close darshan on
four occasions in Brindavan and Puttaparthi. You must visit my websites
http://geocities.datacellar.net/Eureka/Enterprises/1503/
In this I have built a purely reverential site with borrowed pictures audio files and texts as well as with my own. In the following site http://www.geocites.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/4014
I plan to counter the malicious propaganda that is being carried out
through sites like yours. I have become a Sai devotee at the later
part of my life and it is not so easy for any one to dislodge my
faith. Believe me I am also a rational being. But still I have
witnessed miracles even as a child. My father’s sister was a
clairvoyant and I have had experiences of her clairvoyance. I have
never doubted it.
My father was a staunch devotee of Shirdi Sai Baba. I very vividly
remember even to-day. While I was a child of 4 or 5 years my elder
sister was laid up with high fever. My father at that time was not
having money to pay a doctor. Nevertheless my mother brought a doctor
expecting him (the doctor) to be humane.
The doctor first demanded the fees because he thought he might not be
able to recover his fees later. My father virtually threw him out of
the house (by words only) and later intensely prayed before a picture
of Shirdi Baba and applied “Vibuthi” on the forehead of my sister. In
a matter of 30 minutes the fever receded and she became completely
alright the very next day.
Last year my own son was cured of his brain tumour and sever head
ache. I am not any propagating agent of Prasanthi Nilayam Nor does
Baba need any PR men for him. As He very rightly says His life is His
message. I have met many people of eminence who can bear testimony to
many miracles performed by Baba.
However I have not been present during any of the occasion when he
produced rings, chains etc. Only twice I have seen him materialising
“vibuthi”. I have two video tapes showing him apporting a small book
during 1996 Christmas and another where he produces a gold chain for a
dance performer. I have checked these thoroughly by using “pause” and
“still” functions and am convinced there is no sleight of hand as
claimed by you people.
From time immemorial Ravanas have existed along with Ramas. But
everyone knows who ultimately prevailed over who.
I shall very much appreciate it if you publish this e-mail
V. Krishnan
saikrish58@yahoo.com
________________________________________
thanks for your note.
But quite frankly Sai Baba should stop acting like he is God when
he cannot even do a miracle in front of a series of skeptical scientists.
I am really tired of how we justify these gurus under amazingly lame excuses.
Look, I have talked with a score of ex-devotees who have been involved
in compromising positions with Sai.
Furthermore, I have seen his supposed miracles and they are lame.
Very simple observation:Why doesn't Sai produce the world's biggest diamond?
Then sell and it feed more people? Vibhuti? you get my drift.
I think our God-man can withstand a little tough questioning. thanks dave
© 1998 You are welcome to E-Mail me at
Click below to read about
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:02:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Krishnan V
Subject: Neural Surfer
To: david lane
Cc: aq974@lafn.org
From: Krishnan V
Subject: Neu(t?)ral Surfer web pages
To: vparthib@sys.convergent.com.au
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to kina.melb.arcsystems.com.au.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550
550
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; kina.melb.arcsystems.com.au
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:15:10 +1100
From: Krishnan V
Subject: Neu(t?)ral Surfer Web Pages
To: david lane
Cc: venup@melb.convergent.com.au
copy of my last (second serially) e-mail
-------------------------------------------------------
copy ends here
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>Dear Dr. Lane
copy of my earlier E-mail
(Reply from David Lane)
----------------------------------------
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