When I visit some antiques shops, I am dismayed by high prices charged for phonographs made by third-rate companies. Some of these companies were formed after WWI to take advantage of a post-war boom. Whereas many Victrolas--that is, cabinet machines made by the prestigious Victor Talking Machine Company--are worth several hundred dollars today, the same is rarely true for machines made by companies that existed for only a year or two.
I should warn buyers that if a machine's name is not one you recognize, don't spend much on it. The Valuphone, Wolf, portable Cirola, Vitanola, Magnola, Harponola--I can name a hundred nondescript brands. Be wary of such machines.
Machines made by small companies rarely produce great sound since big companies jealously protected their patented technology, and when something today breaks on an off-brand machine, spare parts are not easily found. An advantage of a Victrola is that spare parts are available. So many Victrolas were sold decades ago that today buying just a crank (or "winding key," as Victor engineers called it) or tone-arm is not difficult.
Four machine price guides are available today. I cannot identify one as being the best since each guide is structured differently, meeting different needs. I'll discuss three of those guides here. The fourth one is in a new book by Tim Fabrizio and George Paul (it is an appendix), and I'll discuss that guide when I review the book as a whole. Here I discuss the guides by Eric Reiss, Ray Wilenzick, and Gilbert Pasley. While commenting on these price guides, I will give my own thoughts on what some machines in perfect working condition--with no missing parts or serious flaws, though not necessarily mint--should sell for today. When I cite prices, I am not taking into account some of the "extras" that sometimes accompany machines, such as original albums, needles, extra reproducers, record catalogs. These and other extras bump up the price. One also should pay more for a machine that has been properly restored by an expert--reproducers need to be serviced, for example--than for a machine that has been sitting for decades. I have never understood why some collectors get excited about buying a machine from its "original" owner--such a machine is due for servicing, which costs time and/or money. I suppose some people enjoy restoration work.
Citing prices for machines with broken or frozen parts is too tricky for anyone to attempt in a price guide. Pot metal parts are especially difficult to repair or restore. The price for a non-Victor machine needing major repairs should be largely determined by how much a local machinist will charge to make a new part. Not many offbrand machines are worth this much trouble.
Some machine collectors protest that a realistic machine price guide cannot be compiled. Countless variations in machines affect price; some machines are more plentiful in some parts of the country than in others; circumstances vary under which machines are bought and sold; prices can change rapidly (critics say, "The price guide is out of date the moment it is published!").
But if everyone can agree to treat guides as only guides, not sacred texts, then price guides can be useful. Readers can take different circumstances into account when they consider the range of prices. Obviously prices can change--invariably upwards--but collectors can take into account the year in which a guide was published.
Eric Reiss includes a guide as an appendix to his book titled The Compleat Talking Machine. Reiss is very good with prices for Edison machines. He lists the Amberola 30 at $300-500, the Amberola 50 at $400-600, and the C-200 ("Adam") at $450-600. However, his range of $1,000-$1,500 for the Diamond Disc Model 150 is much too high (it is a rare instance of Reiss over-valuing a machine) while his range of $450-600 for the two Edisonic models--the Beethoven and Schubert models--is too low for these rare and late Edison disc machines. I am impressed that Reiss gives prices for nearly every Edison model. Some Edison machines not included are the LP models and the short-lived 1929 portable Model P-1. Originally priced at $35, the Model P-1 may be worth ten times that to some Edison fanatics eager to own this very rare machine designed for needle-cut discs.
Reiss, an expert on outside horn machines, is perhaps too preoccupied in his guide with rare machines of the industry's earliest years. The guide is not helpful for those curious about the common cabinet machines that antiques dealers today offer for sale. We learn that a Bell-Tainter cylinder machine from before 1894 is worth from $12,000 to $20,000, but since the handful that exist are already in museums or the homes of advanced collectors, that information is not useful to beginning collectors or antiques dealers.
The guide mostly ignores Brunswick and Sonora machines. Brunswick receives one line: "Brunswick table model (typical)...$100-150." What about the many Brunswick uprights and consoles? Or the superb Panatrope introduced in 1926? I would say $200-250 for Brunswick consoles (yes, there are different models), perhaps more for uprights, and $700-800 for the admirable Panatrope. Carefully examine pot metal parts on Brunswicks! Some Brunswick models available for the Xmas season in 1922 include the 127, 210, 122, 101 portable, 207, 212, and 200. Console models had names, unlike the uprights: The Colonial, The Chippendale, The Lombardi, The Stratford, The Gotham, The Georgian, The Oxford, The York. And the list goes on. Brunswick machines can often be found for sale. I wish Reiss would cite prices for more than a token "table model."
Sonora is represented by this one line: "Sonora 'Supreme' (typical ornate floor model)...$2,000-3,000." That sounds inflated to me, especially given the design flaw of the wood tone-arms on Supremes. A major air leak is at the back open end (there is also a potential leak where the two-piece tonearms are joined, but this junction can be greased). However, I have been told that fewer than 10 Supremes are known to be in the hands of collectors, so perhaps Reiss' range is actually on the low side if we are talking about a true Supreme (not to be confused with the Sonora Invincible, Grand or Elite, all of which also had wood tone arms).
The Supreme is gorgeous. What about more ordinary Sonora machines? The price guide says nothing about these.
How much should a Victrola XI sell for? Again, silence. It was renamed a No. 90 in 1921 but Reiss ignores all the Arabic numbered Victrolas aside from the 230 (why this rare model?) and it is priced far too low at $150-250.
An upright XI in fine condition with original parts should be priced in the $300-400 range. Any price that I cite, incidentally, is for a machine featuring a wood typically used in the period. A cabinet machine made from with a rare wood--Circassian Walnut, for example--is in a much higher range.
Some collectors even in recent years may have bought XIs for less because they were in the right place at the right time. Likewise, some people desperate for a phonograph have paid over $600 for a common XI in average condition. Price guides should not reflect atypical sales.
The Victrola XIV also sold well and therefore pops up today, but Reiss does not include it in his price guide, not even as the renamed No. 110. If I must give one range for XIV's, $400-600 seems right to me. It makes little difference in price whether a model is one of the early ones from 1910 to 1914; a mid-period one (for example, the Type E of 1915-1917); or the so-called "modified" XIV introduced in April 1917, which features the fat tonearm, the 4-spring motor (as opposed to the 3), the slightly lower and lighter lid, the thinner doors. One dealer reports that he recently sold one in mahogany for $725, so perhaps XIV's are becoming more desirable. I can always remember the month in which the "fat-arm" was added to the XIV. It came out the same time as the first "jass" record, as if Victor provided a bigger tonearm to accomodate this new and noisy music!
Reiss is so vague about portables that the price guide might as well be silent on the subject. His range: "Suitcase-type portables (typical)...50-200." Should an antiques dealer price a portable at $50 or $200?
Victor's exquisite No. 50 in oak may sell as high as $200. Other Victor portables in excellent condition--not necessarily mint--may be priced around $125-$150. Collectors pay more if the portable has a brass Orthophonic reproducer, which is a valuable item in itself. There is a huge difference between a Victor portable and one made by, say, the Outing Talking Machine Company of Mt. Kisco, New York, which sold portables for $35 beginning in 1921. In the early 1920s many small companies specialized in suitcase portables, and today these badly designed and cheap machines--the spare parts for which are nearly impossible to acquire--should be priced at around $50 if everything works. I feel that when something eventually breaks, repairing these badly made machines is not worth the expense. I never buy such machines though I do like Victor portables enough to own eight.
Reiss lists the Victrola XVI at $150-250, which is far too low. Try $700-1,200. Given the many variations in the XVI, the price guide of my dreams would break down the models, showing slightly higher prices for ones that are rarer than the others. Since I love XVI's--and would buy more if I could afford them!--perhaps I can explore the topic here.
Among knowledgeable collectors, higher prices are paid for XVI's with doors shaped like L's, which were made from August 1907 until September 1912. These are the A and the larger B, which are VTLA models featuring raised motor boards (the B had two blued wood screws under the turntable--that would change with subsequent models), and the C and D, which are similar except the C has the old style on-off switch (which also acts as a bullet brake) whereas the D has the later style on-off switch--moreover, the D has four gold screws instead of the C's four blued wood screws. L-door models have drawers that are ideal for holding supplements and needle tins, so I am sorry that Victor's engineers eliminated these--along with pull-out boards--when redesigning the XVI.
Higher prices are also paid for the rare E, which was the first of the newly designed XVI's, with doors no longer L-shaped and with the on-off switch at the 1 o'clock position (at the back) instead of at 7 o'clock (towards the front); for the rare F (the winder is thicker and longer than on earlier models) and G, both of which have a speed regular at the back instead of in the front like the E. Incidentally, speed pointers on the F and G are unenclosed, which turned out to be a design flaw since they can catch on someone's sleeve--eisenglass was subsequently used for speed pointers.
Finally, higher prices should be paid for the XVI's H model, which was made between late 1914 and late 1917. The H is different from preceding models in various ways--the winding key is put back in the middle instead of being forward as in the E, F, and G; all parts are gold-plated (the turntable platter is nickel on the A-G); the cabinet's back cornerposts are carved; the motor can raised and suspended on hinges that allow for easy maintenance.
No XVI's are common but the later XVI's with fat tone-arms fetch slightly lower prices since they are more available than earlier XVIs. Victor stopped using letters after the H model, so collectors refer to such models as fat-arm XVI's (a few of these have an "A" on the identification plate). Also, lower prices should be paid for the Victrola 120, which is the XVI given an Arabic number beginning in 1921. Victrolas with higher Roman numerals--the XVII, XVII, XX (there is no XIX)--are rare and go for over $1500. None are in Reiss' guide.
Reiss gives thanks to two individuals in England for their help with his guide: Christopher Proudfoot of Christie's and Proudfoot's colleague George Glastris. Reiss himself lives in Denmark. The obvious problem--that three people living on the other side of the Atlantic may not be in the best position to cite prices for machines in the "open market" of the United States--goes unaddressed in the guide's preface.
Reiss seems unaware of predecessors, not only Pasley's guide but "Phonograph Auction Prices" compiled by Ray Wilenzick (the 1997 edition is out--I discuss it below). In soft-cover, "The Compleat Talking Machine" is available postpaid for $29.95 from Allen Koenigsberg, 502 E. 17th St., Brooklyn NY 11226 (phone 718-941-6835). Free steel needles are included with orders. If you need to order other phonograph books, Koenigsberg is the best source--good prices, prompt delivery.
It is not definitive, but the best guide available for those on a tight budget (can you be on a tight budget and still buy phonographs?) is Gilbert Pasley's "Pocket Guide to Antique Musical Machine Values." Send $5 for a postpaid copy to Gilbert Pasley, 8828 Pershing Dr. #142, Playa Del Rey, CA. 90293. Whereas the Reiss guide is an appendix to a book, Pasley guide is, as his title suggests, a pocket guide, compact so readers can take it to auction houses and estate sales. It is 26 pages and makes crucial distinctions between early and late versions of a given model.
Pasley indicates what most prices in his booklet represent. Some prices are taken from ads placed by collectors selling machines. Pasley also quotes what people actually paid for machines at auction houses. Pasley indicates condition whenever possible but does not say if prices are realistic or not. It is for the reader to remember that in ads some owners ask a high price, with a buyer sometimes paying less than the asking price, and that motivated sellers sometimes ask a low price, in which case a machine sells instantly.
If an auction price quoted in Pasley's booklet seems low, consider that few or no phonograph collectors may have attended the auction in question--or only advanced collectors attended, in which case "common" machines sold for low prices since such bidders tend to own common machines already. If an auction price seems high, keep in mind that some people go overboard when bidding on auction, swept up by the excitement of bidding.
In contrast to Reiss citing $150-250 for the exquisite Victrola XVI, Pasley cites the more realistic figures of $1000 for an oak L-door machine (taken from a 1992 ad), $700 for another L-door machine (this time in mahogany--an 1993 ad), and so on, with one ad for a XVI in mahogany quoted at $575.
There is a third guide that will interest collectors who are curious about real prices in an increasingly expensive world. Ray Wilenzick revises each year his "Phonograph Auction Prices" book (8.5 x 11 inches, spiral bound, easy to take to auction houses). He covers phonographs only (no radios, no music boxes). I admire Wilenzick's commitment: as each year passes, he issues a thicker, more comprehensive guide. The 1998 edition is out, and it includes prices of machines that have sold in the last year. Wilenzick works hard to issue a new guide each year so collectors can consult something up-to-date! The new edition is 39 pages. Since a small type is used, many machines are listed on each page.
The current edition indicates prices for over 1600 machines--the actual prices that machines sold for at auction. As I said before, auction prices can be problematic. Some buyers get so excited while competing in an auction that they bid too high; sometimes there is an opposite situation, with an auction having in the audience no serious phonograph collectors, so one lucky soul walks away with the bargain of a century. Keep that in mind, and Wilenzick's book will prove useful. I do wish the book featured a longer introduction. After all, by now Wilenzick must be noticing interesting trends worth mentioning. Anyway, the book is well done, up-to-date, and costs $16 postpaid, which is fair considering the work involved in compiling so much information from auction houses. Contact Wilenzick at "RWilenzick@aol.com" and he will be happy to answer questions about how to order.
Or, for a postpaid copy, write a check for $16 made out to Ray Wilenzick and mail it to him at 229 Jewel Street, New Orleans LA 70124. He is well known in the field--ask around.
If anyone would like to correct some prices that I provide above, which are based on my own experience of buying machines in recent years, please send me email. Maybe you think the prices I cite as "fair" are too high or too low! It is easy for me to modify statements here so this article gives prices that truly reflect the market in late 1997.
POSTSCRIPT: This above article appears to be the most widely read article on my homepage. People everywhere wish to know how much their Victrolas are worth, or they wish to know if the machine for sale at a local estate sale is priced right. Here is a list of the machines I am asked about most often. Some are the machines that pop up most often. Warning: if you are a dealer, don't get sore at my prices. Dealers typically ask for more than a machine is normally worth in hopes that eventually a rich or "green" person will come along and pay a high price. Basic rule of thumb in business is that if you are a dealer with lots of foot traffic in your shop, you can ask for higher prices. I'm citing prices that seasoned Victrola collectors typically pay for machines in nice condition (actually, a lot of them end up in the right place at the right time and pay much less than the cited prices). The production figures I give are from Bob Baumbach's superb LOOK FOR THE DOG.
VICTOR-VICTROLA XI = $300-500 (853,918 WERE MADE)
VICTOR-VICTROLA VI = $200-300 (693,417 WERE MADE)
VICTOR-VICTROLA IV = SAME AS ABOVE, ROUGHLY SAME NUMBER PRODUCED
VICTOR-VICTROLA 90 = $300-500 (85,405 MADE--BUT THIS WAS JUST A RENAMED VV-XI)
VICTOR-VICTROLA 110 = $400-600 (21,800 MADE--BUT THIS WAS JUST A RENAMED VV-XIV)
To be continued....
