Babble v1 126

babble-digest Monday, January 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 126

In this issue:
640x 480- it's really 530 x 288!!
Re: Slicing images in PS4
Enough already! (Re: Grammar and Typing and Stupid Posting)
[none]
Browser detection.
Re: I.E. 4 for Mac
Re: How big until you break it up
IE4 for Macintosh
Re: babble-digest V1 #123
Re: mac/pc software use
Business apathy towards web sites?
Re: babble-digest V1 #124
Outlook Express
Re: babble-digest V1 #124
is the space bar optional, too?
Re: mac/pc software use

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:43:32 +1030
From: david doull <doull@box.net.au>
Subject: 640x 480- it's really 530 x 288!!

There have been a number of emails on the issue of designing for screen
resolutions of 640 x 480
I don't find the 640 bit too much of a problem I generally use centered
tables set to 530 pixels wide or sometimes 70% to ensure printability

BUT the real issue is that Netscape 3 users who don't turn off the
default toolbars (and I'm sorry but there are plenty of people who use
the web like that) leave us with only 626 x 288 for those all important
- - don't need to scroll, images and text. This becomes even more of
headache if you use frames.
Clearly there are some designers who don't care about this - have a look
at my page
at http://www.box.net.au/~doull/babble/ which shows what the current
high five front page looks like on a PC at 640 x480 on netscape 3 with
all default toolbars.
It's a little scary.
So to get to my point how do web designers deal with the 288 pixel
height factor - it's not a lot of room for your page header, user
grabbing image and a bit of enticing text.

regards david

email : doull@box.net.au

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:28:45 -0000
From: "Steve Hunt" <steve@tnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Slicing images in PS4

I'm with you... I like to take pride in my work.... manually cutting and
pasting and saving and converting and scripting and loving and cherishing
all things that I build/create....

Plus, it still seems to be the best way....

reagrds (Ooohh mistake!!!)

Steve Hunt

aka spine...#

design department
- ------------------------------------------------
t i g e r i n t e r n e t
- ------------------------------------------------
Work: http://www.tnet.co.uk
Play: http://www.tnet.co.uk/users/spine
Sideline: http://www.world-cup.co.uk
- -----Original Message-----
From: Nick SÆnior ? <nssoonfa@mica.edu>
To: babble@highfive.com <babble@highfive.com>
Date: 11 January 1998 18:28
Subject: Re: Slicing images in PS4

>>Dear List,
>> How does one slice an image into pieces in PhotoShop 4 for faster web
>>loading? Are there any guides in the program to slice accurately? I want
>to
>>learn the process, not some plug-in.
>
>I could be a fool here, someone can tell me if there is an easier way but,
I
>always just did it "manually" (select an area crop it off and save , select
>part of the remainder, crop it off and save, etc) I thought that was the
>only way.....is it?
>
>95% Babble list approved Spelling and Grammer kinda correctish :)
>
>Nick Senior
>GlassBee [de]signs
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:16:28 +1100
From: "Yalcin Yilmaz" <yyilmaz@catapult.com.au>
Subject: Enough already! (Re: Grammar and Typing and Stupid Posting)

"Moderator, there are is a fly in my Babble"

Let's get back to business, guys...
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:11:26 PST
From: "melissa DeSilva" <imelissa@hotmail.com>
Subject: [none]

With regard to the mail posted by "Erik240",I have a little something
that I have found works relatively well. To some it may seem very basic,
but practical when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of the web.Maybe
Erik could try constructing a grid on paper of the screen sizes that he
works in.This grid is divided into columns and rows( just like in HTML
coding). The grid on paper is a standard platform on which one could
construct any layouts before starting the work on the
relative packages used to design webpages.Keep in mind this grid works
well at the designing stage, which to any good designer is the essential
tool that would help his work move on smoothly. Notwithstanding the
crazy,ridiculous deadlines we guys are subjected to!!!
Anyone like to refute this suggestion is most welcome!!!

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:48:42 -0600
From: "Rose, Keith W" <kwrose@ingr.com>
Subject: Browser detection.

Paul,
if you go to the web developers section of Project Cool,
http://www.projectcool.com , I think they address browser detection.
Keith Rose
Graphic Design
(205) 730-4047
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:43:47 -0500
From: Andrew Zimmerman <zimmerma@hear.net>
Subject: Re: I.E. 4 for Mac

Nick SÆnior ? wrote:

> >
> >IE 4 for Mac is a thing of beauty, many cool features, totally stable,
> > great Java performance, it's an all round masterpiece. Of course it does
>
> <nightmarestory>
> Odd, I must have downloaded a different MSIE 4,0.... :), mine is constantly
> crashing every time I use it actually. The installer thing was nicve, for
> some odd reason it had problems installing on my computer, and after much
> struggling I finally installed it and it then started freezing my 'puter on
> startup. It was hell installing the bugger.
> </nightmarestory>

I downloaded IE4 for Mac on Thursday. I dowloaded their installer and failed to
get it to work. A coworker did the same. I chalked it down to a firewall issue
or just bad MS coding. I ended up downloading the browser only directly from
the MS site and installed it with no problem. I only used it for about 4 hours
(our intranet runs on Netscape so I design for it) with no problems.

I have heard horror stories about Outlook Express and I really don't need any
of the other bundled "accessories" MS gives so I just downloaded the browser. I
really like the interface elements more than Miscommunicator and since I am
trying DHTML IE4 gives me more options to work with it.

It was very nice to be able to just snag the preferences from my
Miscommunicator settings.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:01:43 -0500
From: Shelby <srogers@worldweb.net>
Subject: Re: How big until you break it up

At 09:29 PM 1/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>Here's another design, non-technical question. How big do you make your
>pages before you break up information?

Good question.

>I read somewhere (don't ask me to
>recall) that only 20% of surfers bother to scroll down a page, and you
>should count on most people not seeing what doesn't show up in the first
>screen. I find this difficult to believe.

Ohhh don't be so quick. I've heard of people who don't *know* to scroll --
people who, when you show them how to scroll, say, "wow! I didn't know you
could do that!" Oi! Imagine seeing the Web and not knowing how to scroll
(if you try real hard, I know you can).

In fact, here's a little story on users...the other day, I was trying to
show another staffer something, and watching him 'navigate' was incredible.
He went back to the homepage *every time* he wanted to go somewhere else,
and there was a very visible left nav bar *right there*. He's the same guy
who wanted everything to be on the top 'fold' of the page, but also wanted
everything to be bigger (try explaining 640x480 to this guy). The level of
non-comprehension in my own office astounds me. But I don't have time to be
an evangelist...and so it goes.

Check out Sun's interface design site for some eye-opening stuff at:
http://www.sun.com/sun-on-net/uidesign/

*I* think the layout you typed up for us makes sense, architecturally. But
then again, I click and scroll like a madwoman, I guess. I think that this
is part of the beauty of the Web. People go in as far as they want.

In the end, depends on who your site is for and who has the final OK on
your creation...in my experience, people looking for company info (at least
on the company I work for, which is *small*) generally expect it to be all
in one place. The president of the company (a lot like the guy I describe
above) actually said he didn't want anyone to have to click from the
company homepage. He wanted our product line and websites right there. The
only way I got the page at http://www.cappubs.com/home.html (still not
done) through was by saying, but the company's divisions are so
*different*... we need inner pages.

- -shelby (gettin real tired of hittin the delete key)
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:18:43 +0000
From: "Christian Kirschniak" <ck@dpanic.com>
Subject: IE4 for Macintosh

I am just checking out Outlook as a new E-Mail client. It I S better than
Emailer, especially if you use the System 8 integreated v1.1 of the Claris
product.

Outlook offers more features, HTML-emails, direct links to the browser and a
lot more. And I like the fact that the client is not integrated in the
browser program (Netscape)

But: I will use Netscape as the main browser platform. Most of the stuff I
do is optimized for Netscape (and it will be in the future) By the way,
Outlook works perfectly well with NS 3.1 and 4.01. The poor thing is:
Microsoft seems to win in the technical aspect of the browser war...

All the best

Christian Kirschniak
___________________________________________________
E-Mail: <ck@dsein.com> WWW: <http://www.dsein.com>
Private: <carpenoctem@geocities.com> WWW:
<http://www.dsein.com/carpenoctem>
Phone: +49 7071 440946 Cellular: +49 172 7613743
Snail: Albblickstrasse 5 72411 Bodelshausen Germany
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:35:05 GMT
From: tony@slide-express.ca (Tony Cook)
Subject: Re: babble-digest V1 #123

In PShop, you do not Save As GIF - it is an Export function
(File/Export)

On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:51:25 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:59:29 EST
>From: TheGilster <TheGilster@aol.com>
>Subject: Saving Gif's In PS
>
>Dear List,
> I am new to Photoshop and I would like to ask what might be a basic
>question. How come I can't save an image in Photoshop 4.01 as a Gif? And is
>there a way to create Gif Animations in Photoshop? I would also appreciate
>any recommendations for books on learning Photoshop. Or a Tips and Tricks
>Book on Photoshop as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Gil Kruger
> Zob New Media, Inc.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 10:56:44 -0500
From: Wendy Clark <clark@portland.com>
Subject: Re: mac/pc software use

>>Just get an accurate gamma toggle extension and you can easily flip between
>>the 2 settings by the press of a key.

I had one that crashed my system. Anyone know of a safe one?

>You can get a PC gamma setting from Lynda Weinman's site
>http://www.lynda.com that works with the gamma utility that comes with
>Photoshop.

>From Lynda's "files" directory:

"PC Gamma - a gamma adjustment file for Macintosh users to adjust
their monitors to emulate what PC monitors look like. Not
full-proof by any means - just an estimation since all
monitors
are calibrated differently. This will only work with older
system software that includes Thomas Knoll's utility, 'Gamma.'"

I have Photoshop 4.0.1 and I don't seem to have the Gamma utility. Anyone
know if it exists separately?

___________________________
Wendy Clark
New Media Development Group
http://www.nmdg.com
clark@portland.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:20:54 -0500
From: "Scott Clark" <sclark@ccceeg.com>
Subject: Business apathy towards web sites?

I just spent 10 years in the Silicon Valley developing software, managing
teams, and the last two doing corporate intranets with a high degree of
success. Well, I tired of the Bay Area scene and moved to a smaller metro
area to raise my new family [a big trend if you hadn't noticed.]

It is there that I'm starting my site development business and would like
some advice.

In my explorations of small to medium sized business web site market, I've
found quite a bit of apathy towards the internet and what it can offer.
Many businesses, while interested in the internet, simply cannot see the
benefit of a site to business growth, customer flow, etc. The national
advertising which includes URLs regularly is helping a bit, but still it's
frustrating.

Even business owners who could reap outrageous rewards tend to back off
because they don't "understand" or don't own a computer "at home." The
hundreds of thousands of customers who would likely use the web in these
communities [let alone worldwide] doesn't seem to phase them. I, being an
aggressive businessperson, would tend to take the attitude of "who cares
what the internet or web sites are - if they're bringing me 20% more
customers just make me a site and send the bill."

Naturally, I don't act this way around them. I am understanding and provide
them with the "story of the web site" and statistics about the number of
people in their area using the web, etc. Still - most of these folks are
used to something tangible - like a catalog - held in hand, and the internet
doesn't provide that.

My thoughts have leaped here and there about how to market a web site firm
using integrated marketing techniques, postcard mailings, cold calls,
partnerships with conventional advertising, etc. etc. Which works best? I
also wonder if a design firm MUST act as a hosting reseller to succeed?

Well - I'm not sure and would REALLY like some ideas and discussion about
this issue amongst the babblers.

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:30:18 -0500
From: Kathy McMillan <mckathy@erols.com>
Subject: Re: babble-digest V1 #124

I would like to know why all this was at the end of the commets....when
I tried to print out the page for my information....I got all this in my
printout.....a lot of waste of paper I should say. Can this be
prevented in the future.

Thanks, Kathy

> - --=====================_884577581==_
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="cube_inner.ACO"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cube_inner.ACO"
>
> - --=====================_884577581==_--
>
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>
> ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:28:57 -0500
From: Andrew Zimmerman <zimmerma@hear.net>
Subject: Outlook Express

Christian Kirschniak wrote:

> I am just checking out Outlook as a new E-Mail client. It I S better than
> Emailer, especially if you use the System 8 integreated v1.1 of the Claris
> product.
>

On the Project Cool mailing list Outlook Express caused numerous problems for
many people reading their mail and posting to the list. I am not saying it is
full of problems or that you will encounter them too, but IMHO pine and
Netscape mail are adequate. I hate Netscape mail too so YMMV.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:33:05 -0500
From: Kathy McMillan <mckathy@erols.com>
Subject: Re: babble-digest V1 #124

Concerning your comments on:

> There is a plugin called GIf89a or something included with photoshop. (under
> the File-export menu) I've HEARD that P/shop adds all sorts of little
> encodings
> that only p/shop uses when it saves files therefore Gifs saved under it tend
> to be a bit larger than a GIF saved in another format. Personally, if you
> have it(if not, get it) open the pshop file in debabelizer and save it as a
> GIF there... it'll be smaller. ANOTHER way is to get Photo GIF or Image
> vice, both plugins for photoshop,that have better GIF export than the Gif89a
> plugin. they are available from boxtop software at:

I'd like to know what is the difference between Gif89a and GifBuilder
0.5, except that GiftBuilder 0.5 is FREE???????
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:40:06 -0800
From: "Jim Bass" <jim@bassworks.com>
Subject: is the space bar optional, too?

My post wasn't about grammar, it was about sloppy typing. If the shift key
is optional, how about the space bar? And do we really need vowels? One
would think that purported graphic designers would have some respect for
type -- and have the strength to depress their shift key at key moments to
make it easier for their "sketches" to be understood.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:45:30 GMT
From: Jason Holland <jason@head-newmedia.com>
Subject: Re: mac/pc software use

Gamma Toggle Key. (mac) Simply sits as a font suitxase in your system.
Think shareware.com will have it.

Jason Holland (Creative Director)
Head New Media 444 Brixton Road London
Tel: +44(0)171 737 7579 Fax: +44 (0)171 737 7971
http://www.head-newmedia.com http://www.head-space.com/Jay

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End of babble-digest V1 #126
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