Babble v1 150

babble-digest Tuesday, January 20 1998 Volume 01 : Number 150

In this issue:
Re: Cookies via CGI
Re: Interface Design...some paths
Re: Netscape 2 - where to d/load it from?
Re: Custom Palettes in PS4
Re: Seen these before? + Review + Rave
FWD: Make Max's Day
js: mult frame swap w/ one link?
Web Server Hosting
Re: FWD: Make Max's Day
TECH: js: mult frame swap w/ one link?
Re: metallic/irridescent
Dang, forgot to mention... (was Re: js: multi frame...)
JS: more about frames
Re: Web Server Hosting
Re: Bill Gates site (or: What matters)
Re: FWD: Make Max's Day
RE: TECH: Best JPEG compression?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:42:38 +0530
From: sarbajitb@planetasia.com (Sarbajit Banerjea)
Subject: Re: Cookies via CGI

Try Matt's Script Archive at http://www.worldwidemart.com/scripts/ .
There's a Perl library for cookies which is well documented and
simple to use.

>Anyone know of any decent web sites that detail how to implement cookies
>via CGI? Any help would be appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Christopher Schmitt

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Sarbajit BANERJEA
Planetasia.com
sarbajitb@planetasia.com www.planetasia.com

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:44:55 +0000
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Interface Design...some paths

In message <34C3E1BA.87C53FE9@gaiaone.com>, Brad Westgaard
<alutha@gaiaone.com> writes
>In the meantime, who out there is doing the oh-so-profitable research into
>surf, browsing, and nav strategies? And what have they found?

as some ppl on the list are already aware, we are doing the stuff you mention:
we've just finished the research work (sampling 5000 users ain't easy kids, let
me tell ya) and are busy compiling results. paper due out mid-march. if ppl are
interested in what we've got so far, let me know, i'll try to put some of the
early stuff together (this would be fairly loose so) and put it up on our
server(?)

and btw, this certainly ain't profitable. the results are to be distributed free
of charge on the web.

"don't know about you but i am un chien andalusia"
Paul Frost Web Development
www.phw.co.uk Priority Healthcare Wearside
paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk Sunderland, UK
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:25:09 -0500
From: Ryan Ferguson <signacct@signweb.com>
Subject: Re: Netscape 2 - where to d/load it from?

At 11:51 AM 1/20/98 +1100, you wrote:
>those lovely folks over at netscape have kindly
>provided navigator 3.01 and 2.02 for you to download.
>unfortunatley, you can't get there from the download
>site, because someone has mistyped the url. get them
>straight from:
>
>ftp://archive.netscape.com/archive/index.html
>
>the lovely jason kottke has also posted some 'olde
>tyme' browsers to his site (pre-netscape 1.0 and some
>versions of mosaic) at:

It's been a few months since I've been there, but last time I checked,
www.browsers.com provided all sorts of browsers and versions, including
ancient ones.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:23:39 +1100
From: "Yalcin Yilmaz" <yyilmaz@catapult.com.au>
Subject: Re: Custom Palettes in PS4

1) create an image (or use an existing one) in RBG and index it to
whatever # of colors you want. (image>mode>indexed)

2) modify the color table manually by 2xclicking each and entering values
(image>mode>colortable)

3) save the AdobeColorTable (*.ACT)

4) use it where ever else (by reloading the .ACT into another indexed
image - just like when you saved it)

5) even load it into your swatches (swatches toolbar's little side
menu>load/replace swatches>choose .ACT instead of .ACO and load the saved
color table)

Hope that helps.

| Yalcin Yilmaz
| Catapult Design House
| yyilmaz@catapult.com.au
| http://www.catapult.com.au
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:25:56 +1100
From: "Yalcin Yilmaz" <yyilmaz@catapult.com.au>
Subject: Re: Seen these before? + Review + Rave

Sorry guys, it seems I didn't state how animated gifs can be rolled over
(in all my excitement), and it was rude of me to miss out on this detail.
Trick is to specify the height and width of the place holder image one
pixel wider/thinner/taller/shorter than the animated gif. That simple.

I just used a 1 pixel transparent gif sized "incorrectly" as my initial
placeholder. All rolled over gifs were animated to 'disappear", so other
animated gifs could simply be pasted over them (and no onmouseouts nor
timers were necessary - AND I could use the same gifs for the IE friendly
script and not worry about turning them off).

Sure, if the placeholder and replacing gifs are different sizes, there may
be some distorsion, but did any of you notice?

I'm not sure why this works - but no one has mailed me so far stating
negative :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 07:59:12 -0500
From: Kevin Travers <kwt@highfive.com>
Subject: FWD: Make Max's Day

Hello Listers,

this was posted on another list and I saw the perfect opportunity to do a
Good-Deed-Of-the-Day. I went to the site and like the message below says,
it's not anything we would make, but think of it this way ... what were
*you* doing when you were 11? I think I was playing with sticks or
something ...

thanks Babblers.
spread the word.

>
>Max is 11 years old and lives down stairs from me. He is a quiet
>reserved kid who, just formed his own web page, but is now upset because
>no one has visited it. It is nothing spectacular, but it is a heck of a
>lot better than what I could do. The page has a counter, a guest book
>and a chat room, which he checks almost daily.
>
>Could you please take a moment to visit it and then send the address
>along to some one else. The look on his face would be worth it. Thanks
>so much, & lets have some fun with this. At this time, there have been
>only six visits to the sight..
>
>http://www.angelfire.com/md/greenmartian/
>
>Peace.

Kevin Travers
H I G H F I V E
http://www.highfive.com
kevin@highfive.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:23:32 -0500
From: Bryan Leblanc <info@whiterock.ca>
Subject: js: mult frame swap w/ one link?

>
> http://www.abmworldlink.com/paininmyass
>
> The intent here is to swap out the top and bottom frames with a link
> from the center frame. Nav3 gives this js error message:
> Window.one has no property named 'location'.
> Nav4 gives this message: parent.one has no properties. What gives.
> > I've posted a very simplistic version of what I'm really trying to
> achieve. What I really need to do is swap out eight frames with the
> same HTML file (it's only a color shift in the body tag). Anyone have
> an efficient script for this effect. Sorry for the long post. Thanks.

<A HREF="javascript:Openner('doc1.html','doc2.html')">Two Links, One
Click.</A>

- --

Bryan Leblanc
Whiterock Communications
263 Eglinton Avenue West, Suite 203
Toronto, Ontario M4R 1B1
416.485.5880 FAX 416.485.2225
http://www.whiterock.ca/~wr
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:01:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Victor Erwin <itsvic@unix1.sncc.lsu.edu>
Subject: Web Server Hosting

How do you find reputable servers for web hosting? I know there's knowone
in my area that has a high quality service, but I also realize there's no
reason to go local with the web. I was looking at Affinity Hosting
(ahnet.net). Seems like a good deal. Anyone recommend for or against them,
or have someone else to recommend? Oh yeah, this will be a low traffic
personal site.

Vic
itsvic@unix1.sncc.lsu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:09:52 -0500
From: Chris_Mabry@ccmail.prusec.com
Subject: Re: FWD: Make Max's Day

Little Jimmy Dickens is an 8 year old kid that lives under the garage of
the family next door to me. Why does he live under the garage? Well, he has
cancer of the toenail, boils on 1/54 of his body, hair on only one side of
his butt, three black teeth and four noses, two of which are on his face.
His family can't stand the sight of him. But he's one-heck-of-a web page
designer! Problem is, he put a picture of himself on his core page, so no
one will visit his site. Please, oh please, do him a favor too, and visit
him at:

http://www.dontfallforthislatestnethoax.com

- -chris

PS: :-)

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: FWD: Make Max's Day
Author: Kevin Travers <kwt@highfive.com> at INTERNET
Date: 1/20/98 7:59 AM

Hello Listers,

this was posted on another list and I saw the perfect opportunity to do a
Good-Deed-Of-the-Day. I went to the site and like the message below says,
it's not anything we would make, but think of it this way ... what were
*you* doing when you were 11? I think I was playing with sticks or
something ...

thanks Babblers.
spread the word.

Kevin Travers
H I G H F I V E
http://www.highfive.com
kevin@highfive.com

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:22:57 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: TECH: js: mult frame swap w/ one link?

At 01:02 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Erik Kittlaus wrote:
[snip]
>I'm attempting to swap out multiple frames with a single click of a
>link. I've tried diligently to incorporate the code Nick Heinle
>introduces in his book 'Designing with Javascript' (pages 40-43). It
>simply doesn't work and I don't know why. I put up a sample to show the
>problem at:
>
>http://www.abmworldlink.com/paininmyass
>
>The intent here is to swap out the top and bottom frames with a link
>from the center frame. Nav3 gives this js error message:
>Window.one has no property named 'location'.
>Nav4 gives this message: parent.one has no properties. What gives.
[snip]

Erik,

Your problem is a couple of layers deep.

First layer: The reason you're getting the errors about parent.one is
because you have no frame named "one." The "one" and "two" in the swap
function are the names of the frames you want to swap.

Second layer: You shouldn't name any of your frames "top." To NS, at least,
"top" is a reserved word when dealing with framesets that refers to the top
level, as in "top.location," so referencing parent.top.location will
actually load the file into the entire browser window. (This even happens
if you use parent.frames['top'].)

I've posted a fixed version of your sample at:
http://www.serve.com/apg/babble/multiFrame/

Hope this helps. :)
- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:28:39 +0100
From: Pascale Camus-Walter <camwal@cybercable.tm.fr>
Subject: Re: metallic/irridescent

>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:08:32 -0800 (PST)
>From: Matt Newell <>
>Subject:
>
>greets all,
>
>in a nutshell, have any of you come up with a good technique for creating
>a "metallic" paint effect..?
>
>im talking like the lowrider special type paint job style of
>metallic/irridescent (sp?)
>
>it seems with all of the beveling, and the like, i havent seen anything
>like this.
>
>thanx in advance if this has already been talked about, otherwise i look
>forward to possible ideas and methods.

I have posted two examples of irridescent effects at URL:

http://www.citeweb.net/malevich/metallic.html

I obtained them with playing with a multicolored pattern (below each
example, see the original pattern used: example at the left: textile (from
Painter5's textile library) ,example at the right: hueband (picked up in
H5 from the article of Lynda about color).

This basic pattern is deformed by filters (chisel, etc..) and mixed with a
grey background (before the deformation or after, with setting the
transparency etc.. effects of the layers). You can also add lightening
effects (plastic, metall), or texture effects (glass, etc.. form eye candy)
to have a final metal sensation.

For "normal" metallic effects, I use the Wacom pen tools (free download, of
cause you must have a wacom pad), but the scale of tones is limited to grey
(silver) or yellow (gold).

Il est plus facile de rayer l'obscurité que la lumière. R. Juarroz
+---------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
artKfee: http://www.cybercable.fr/~camwal/
The Waltercolour studio: http://geocities.datacellar.net/SoHo/Gallery/5806/
apastras: http://web.superb.net/apastras
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:30:46 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: Dang, forgot to mention... (was Re: js: multi frame...)

I forgot to include in that last post that a while back I developed a
script that can take an unlimited number of frame names and URLs to swap.
That is, you can use the same function to swap two or twenty frames, as
many as you need -- sort of the Swiss Army knife of frame swapping.

It's not currently published on the Web, and I'd have to dig it up, but if
people are interested I could post it. Let me know off list.

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:50:07 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Miguel_Fuentes_Garc=EDa?= <mfuentes@seresco.es>
Subject: JS: more about frames

I'm trying to open different pages with frames, using different links in
a non frames page.
I don't want to write so many frames description pages as content pages.

It looks easy, but if you don't have a frame page, you will need to name
the
windows of the layer.

Sorry about my english, I learned at school ;-)
Miguel Fuentes
mfuentes@seresco.es

http://fotografia.las.es/ccasa

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:13:13 -0500
From: "Linda Wolf" <lindaw@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: Web Server Hosting

Victor Erwin asked:

>How do you find reputable servers for web hosting?

Great question, Victor. And timely for us.

So we'd like to add: To those who answer Victor's post, please include us on
your off-list responses and include recommendations for competitively priced
web server hosts that can do a great job hosting small commercial sites as
well. Does anyone know about Rapidsite or Anawave for example? What should
we look for (or avoid) in a dealer program to determine long term success
for our clients and for us?

Linda Wolf
ActiveCanvas...new media design
http://www.activecanvas.com
(781) 255-0780 <lindaw@ziplink.net>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:31:32 -0600
From: Pat Flanagan <pfpd@pfpd.com>
Subject: Re: Bill Gates site (or: What matters)

>As you said, her visitors don't care if the site if it looks cool, but they
>DO care if it isn't designed well.
>
>Most people have no idea what good design is...they couldn't describe what
>makes something well designed. BUT they can always tell you when something
>is designed better than the other. They may not conciously know why it is
>better, but subconciously they will find it easier to use and more
>aesthetically pleasing.

Maybe, maybe not. Hers is not the only model horse website in the world.
When her visitors comment that her site is "so easy to use," "not filled
with gewgaws that overwhelm you," and "the best model horse website," well,
then, that makes me think that at least those three people are pleased.
Anyway, who said the site isn't "well designed?" Just 'cuz it won't win a
High Five award? Who cares. My clients don't care about awards, they want
results.

>As a designer, if you feel there are improvements that can be made to her
>site, then there probably are. She doesn't think it can be better because
>she hasn't SEEN a better version. Most clients think at the "good enough"
>level. If you produce something that is "good enough" chances are it will
>stay that way for quite awhile. You need to keep showing clients "better"
>as they develop as a client.

She HAS seen better versions, "better" being defined as more "designed"
sites. She's of the "if it ain't broke, why fix it" school -- it's
producing great results that exceed her projections, and her visitors keep
returning.

As for if I MYSELF think improvements could be made, that really doesn't
matter. This is a BIG HUGE misconception on the point of many (maybe the
majority) of designers out there. If you want a site that fulfills all your
personal needs and wants, design your own site. When you're designing for a
client, you need to look at things from:

A) The website visitor's point of view
B) The client's point of view
C) Your point of view

In that order. Sorry, in many ways, you, the designer, are at the bottom of
the totem pole on this. Your design MUST MUST MUST be tailored so that
website visitors will feel comfortable, can easily find info, and will
return (there's your interface design speaking); you must present the
information your client wants to present -- sure, you can help them shape
the content and point out any deficiencies -- but it's THEIR content.
Finally, you can inject your personal touches to the site. But your touches
are the least important. Too many designers get their ego in the way and
design sites for themselves first, their clients second, and the end user
last. WRONG WRONG WRONG.

These are my opinions, of course, and you may disagree with them. All I
know is it works for me, and I'm still personally fulfilled. I get more of
a charge out of seeing a client get successful results from one of my
designs than making each site my own personal precious little work of art.
____________________
PFPD -- newmedia marketing consulting
a limited liability company
PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 v:616.663.2250
<mailto:pfpd@pfpd.com> -- <http://www.pfpd.com>
competitive business advantages through creative technology
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:16:36 -0800
From: "molly w. steenson" <molly@girlwonder.com>
Subject: Re: FWD: Make Max's Day

Actually, the thing about Max wasn't a hoax-- I visited it and he had all
of 17 page views last night. But soon, the whole net will hit his page and
his ISP will charge him more for the hits, or maybe shut down access to the
page. So when you get the message in a few years, and his mom begs you not
to visit his page anymore-- Max doesn't even *use* the Web, he hates
computers, and he's really into death metal-- you'll be able to say that
you saw it here... second.

At 10:09 AM 1/20/98 -0500, Chris_Mabry@ccmail.prusec.com wrote:
>Little Jimmy Dickens is an 8 year old kid that lives under the garage of
>the family next door to me. Why does he live under the garage? Well, he has
>cancer of the toenail, boils on 1/54 of his body, hair on only one side of
>his butt, three black teeth and four noses, two of which are on his face.
>His family can't stand the sight of him. But he's one-heck-of-a web page
>designer! Problem is, he put a picture of himself on his core page, so no
>one will visit his site. Please, oh please, do him a favor too, and visit
>him at:
>
>http://www.dontfallforthislatestnethoax.com
>
>-chris
>
>PS: :-)
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: FWD: Make Max's Day
>Author: Kevin Travers <kwt@highfive.com> at INTERNET
>Date: 1/20/98 7:59 AM
>
>
>Hello Listers,
>
>this was posted on another list and I saw the perfect opportunity to do a
>Good-Deed-Of-the-Day. I went to the site and like the message below says,
>it's not anything we would make, but think of it this way ... what were
>*you* doing when you were 11? I think I was playing with sticks or
>something ...
>
>thanks Babblers.
>spread the word.
>
>
>
>Kevin Travers
>H I G H F I V E
>http://www.highfive.com
>kevin@highfive.com
>
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>
>

........................................
molly wright steenson
writer. editor. producer. girl wonder.
molly@girlwonder.com

pro woman. post grrl. maxi.
http://www.maximag.com/

estrogen-powered web network.
http://www.estronet.com/

"If I were on my knees, you'd have a good view of my skull. And I happen to
know you're carrying a chisel."
- --Robyn Hitchcock
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:24:23 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark Newhouse <newhouse@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu>
Subject: RE: TECH: Best JPEG compression?

Caleb:

I have found the products from Digital Frontiers to be quite useful. I
originally used their GIF optimization software and have recently
upgraded to version 2 of their web suite, which includes a better GIF
optimizer as well as a JPEG filter that allows you to generate optimized
Q-tables and do some prefiltering. I haven't played with the new versions
enough yet, but their first product was great. You can download a 30-day
trial from their web site <www.digfrontiers.com>. They are PS plug-ins
that can be used as a filter or export plug-in.

Good luck,

- --Mark
newhouse@lpl.arizona.edu = interaction
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~newhouse/ = distraction
http://www.websitecreation.com/ = production

On Sunday, January 18, 1998 7:51 AM, Caleb Fuller wrote:
> Has anybody tested different JPEG compression (Mac) software?
> I am comparing the JPEGs used on the Landrover.com site with a physically
> similar sized image I am trying to use, and when compressed to get a
similar
> file size (20-30K), my image quality is absolutely #$%^ compared to what
> Adjacency achieved.

------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #150
****************************

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