Babble v1 162

babble-digest Tuesday, January 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 162

In this issue:
Our first spam...
Re: Questionnaires
RE: money and H5...
Re: Our first spam...
hidden inputs
wysiwyg
Re: hidden inputs
Re: hidden inputs
dreamweaver is okay
Re: wysiwyg
RE: wysiwyg
Red background?
RE: wysiwyg
duH!
Re: wysiwyg
Viruses?
subject lines and replies
my windows are spawning satan...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:03:44 +1000
From: Caleb Fuller <email@calebfuller.com>
Subject: Our first spam...

Updated GSM 1800 phones offer list:

500 pcs Ericsson PH 337 PCN GSM 1800 phones
Price: GBP 156 FOB UK

etc etc....

Hmmm, our first spam....Mr Moderator?

- -Caleb
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:15:27 -0500
From: Shelby <srogers@worldweb.net>
Subject: Re: Questionnaires

Having gotten it from both sides (hey! get yer mind outta the gutter) -- I
would say that not necessarily, "this is a questionnaire you must fill out
before work begins, period" is a pretty stringent approach and should only
be used when you have a client who insists that the site will 'take shape
as you build it.' They need to see the questions/concepts and have it
explained to them -- unfortunately, there are some people out there who are
definitely like that.

Then, there are your more reasonable clients, with whom you can conduct
more of an interview/meeting. Have the questions in front of you -- heck,
you can even create an online presentation and that would help you out as
well in terms of impressing people -- and just ask them. Allow the meeting
to be somewhat free-form, so that you can skip around on the list and
follow the conversation naturally. I know, I know, it sounds like a
therapist's approach but I promise you, you will find out very quickly
what's most important to them, and therefore, what should be most important
to you.

HTH.

shelby rogers/web diva/dc webgrrl/person.html

Whatever you can do or dream you can do, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.
-Goethe
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:22:01 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Miguel_Fuentes_Garc=EDa?= <mfuentes@seresco.es>
Subject: RE: money and H5...

Due to the webmonkey banner, (`+ the other banner),
I can't use the highfive interface. (I have a 15'' monitor).

If you still wanna get the content, I recommend you the next url's:

Review:

http://www.highfive.com/review/html/review_right.html

Feature:
http://www.highfive.com/feature/html/feature_right.html

Profile:
http://www.highfive.com/profile/html/profile_right.html

Also, you can check the last issues using the FTP method:

http://www.highfive.com/feature/past/
http://www.highfive.com/profile/past/
http://www.highfive.com/review/past/

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 11:49:10 -0500
From: Kevin Travers <kwt@highfive.com>
Subject: Re: Our first spam...

Hi babblers! Im aware of this lovely spam we received and I'm taking care
of it. Thanks for the update.

babble on.

On 1/26/98 10:03 AM Caleb Fuller said ...

>Updated GSM 1800 phones offer list:
>
>500 pcs Ericsson PH 337 PCN GSM 1800 phones
>Price: GBP 156 FOB UK
>
>etc etc....
>
>Hmmm, our first spam....Mr Moderator?

Kevin Travers
H I G H F I V E
http://www.highfive.com
kevin@highfive.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:07:23 +0000
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
Subject: hidden inputs

hi y'all
i have a small cgi related query, wonder if any of the xperts ou there have an
easy solution.

one of the websites i've produced has a simple search system (it's at
www.phw.co.uk/searcher.html), which allows input for boolean and case. I want to
put a mini version of this on the first page, but there ain't room for the extra
input controls, so is there any way of specifying boolean/case defaults in the
page?

i'm not sure how clearly i'm explaining this, but any help would be gratefully
appreciated.

"don't know about you but i am un chien andalusia"
Paul Frost 'Webmeister' <giggle/apologies>
www.phw.co.uk Priority Healthcare Wearside
paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk Sunderland, UK
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:09:56 +0100
From: cvodb <vonb@xs4all.nl>
Subject: wysiwyg

question:
I prefer writing html by hand, but sometimes whipping up some pages can be
done quickly in one of these wysisyg editors. I've tried a lot of them, but
am disappointed with the results - they all make garbage of your carefully
written html. So far, the one that seems to do the least damage is
Symantec's Visual Page, but I was wondering if any of you have any good
experiences with other progs & can recommend me one for mac and/or windows.

cheers,

Caroline
'Through it all she offers me protection
a lot of love and affection whether I'm right or wrong
I'm loving angels instead' - Robbie Williams
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:58:13 -0800
From: "Lawrence Lee" <tomalak@dsoe.com>
Subject: Re: hidden inputs

Easy... just stick the hidden variable in the HTML form and it'll pass the
variable onto the CGI script. If you match the variable/value to what your
CGI script is expecting then everything should work.

This should work (Using OR as boolean default):
<INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="boolean" Value="OR">
<INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="case" Value="Insensitive">

You really should pick up the CGI Programming Book from O'Rielly... It'll
get you up and running quickly.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
To: babble@highfive.com <babble@highfive.com>
Date: January 26, 1998 10:38 AM
Subject: hidden inputs

[...]
>one of the websites i've produced has a simple search system (it's at
>www.phw.co.uk/searcher.html), which allows input for boolean and case. I
want to
>put a mini version of this on the first page, but there ain't room for the
extra
>input controls, so is there any way of specifying boolean/case defaults in
the
>page?
>
>i'm not sure how clearly i'm explaining this, but any help would be
gratefully
>appreciated.
>
[...]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:11:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Porter Glendinning <ag@cen.com>
Subject: Re: hidden inputs

Paul,

All you have to do is include hidden fields in your form with the
same name as the select objects in the full form, and whatever
value you want to be the default, something like this:

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Paul Frost wrote:
[snip]
> one of the websites i've produced has a simple search system (it's at
> www.phw.co.uk/searcher.html), which allows input for boolean and case. I want to
> put a mini version of this on the first page, but there ain't room for the extra
> input controls, so is there any way of specifying boolean/case defaults in the
> page?
[snip]
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:33:28 -0700
From: Trope newMedia <trope@teleport.com>
Subject: dreamweaver is okay

>I prefer writing html by hand, but sometimes whipping up some pages can be
>done quickly in one of these wysisyg editors. I've tried a lot of them, but
>am disappointed with the results - they all make garbage of your carefully
>written html. So far, the one that seems to do the least damage is
>Symantec's Visual Page, but I was wondering if any of you have any good
>experiences with other progs & can recommend me one for mac and/or windows.

macromedia's dreamweaver is pretty good . it integrates bbedit very well
and doesn't seem to mess up those ingenious hacks you stay up all night
writing . i just ordered the full version after using the beta for a little
while , i'll let you know how it goes . for me, nothing can replace bbedit,
but dreamweaver does seem to save time with staging and is pretty ambitious
in regard to dynamic html, javascript etc .

jeff faulkner

____________________________________________
<b>TropE new media creative</b> now up and running at
http://www.teleport.com/~trope
_____________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:25:00 +0000
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: wysiwyg

In message <199801261811.TAA27077@smtp2.xs4all.nl>, cvodb
<vonb@xs4all.nl> writes
>question:
>I prefer writing html by hand, but sometimes whipping up some pages can be
>done quickly in one of these wysisyg editors. I've tried a lot of them, but
>am disappointed with the results - they all make garbage of your carefully
>written html. So far, the one that seems to do the least damage is
>Symantec's Visual Page, but I was wondering if any of you have any good
>experiences with other progs & can recommend me one for mac and/or windows.
>
>cheers,
>
>Caroline
Hi Caroline
Robbie Williams in the sig? But why?

Visual Interdev and Hahtsite are both good for huge scale stuff, netobjects does
medium sized stuff well despite its surreal structuring process and dreamweaver
does bells and whistles well (and tends to leave handwritten stuff well alone).
as far actual laying out goes, i've heard good things about using quark xpress
with the plugin to-HTML converter.

yes, there is a total dearth of good wysiwygs, but hey, the new tricky album
coming out.

ultimately, it depends on the project's need as to what editor ppl use. i
personally have tended to code templates by hand (i now have a pretty big
catalogue, and just cut/paste in simpletext). and when it gets too big for that,
you want database served pages anyhow.

"don't know about you but i am un chien andalusia"
Paul Frost 'Webmeister' <giggle/apologies>
www.phw.co.uk Priority Healthcare Wearside
paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk Sunderland, UK

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:48:41 -0600
From: "Chris Kaminski" <ckaminski@genoabusforms.com>
Subject: RE: wysiwyg

Symantec has a good product, but the best is Dreamweaver. I've been
monkeying with a beta. Of all the WYSIWYGs I've tried (Backstage,
FrontPage, PageMill, Visual Page) it's the only one that I've kept on my
box and used for actual work.

Chris Kaminski
Intranet Developer
Genoa Business Forms, Inc.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:55:57 -0800
From: "Mathieu Daoust" <mdaoust@total.net>
Subject: Red background?

Hi,

Is a red background (255,0,0) for all a site is considered bad?
I feel doing a project this way but not sure...

Mathieu Daoust
mdaoust@total.net

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:04:19 -0800
From: Christopher <chris@christopher.org>
Subject: RE: wysiwyg

I recommend Dreamweaver for these of reasons over other wysiwyg eidtors:

- - it doesn't mess around with your pre-existing code (well, not much)
- - it comes bundled with BBEdit or HomeSite
- - DHTML for Dummies, you can create slick movements and positioning effects
without knowing a lick of JavaScript.
- - easy to throw up basic pages and then tweak the code in BBEdit or
HomeSite. This method shaves hours off my work cycle.

I also own NetObjects Fusion, but haven't had the heart to watch it destroy
my handcrafted html. I also don't want to limit myself to it's basic web
page layout.

Christopher Schmitt
new media designer
http://www.christopher.org/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:59:18 -0700
From: Trope newMedia <trope@teleport.com>
Subject: duH!

dear babblicious

got a design question - i'd like to use some background schematic drawing
like the stuff used here: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/

first off, is there a name for that kind of art? some esoteric designer
speak i'm not familiar with ? secondly, are there formal resources for that
sort of thing ? did they draw it in illustrator maybe? i've found lots of
old books and stuff with that kind of art - do others just scan old stuff
in ? what would you do it you wanted to design something like this?

thanks /.

jeff faulkner

____________________________________________
<b>TropE new media creative</b> now up and running at
http://www.teleport.com/~trope
_____________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:39:48 -0800
From: "Jorge Hurtado" <hurtado@exo.com>
Subject: Re: wysiwyg

Christopher,
I would suggest looking into Netobjects fusion 2.02. Even though Initially
we all complained about it overwriting and adding too much unnecesary code
into your pages, the new release [3.0] will have major advantages, it will
have 3 environments/primary modes:
PageDraw in the position-based mode, allows you to place elements anywhere
on the page with pixel-perfect control.
PageDraw in text-based mode, allows you to work on a page as if in a word
processor, using carriage returns and other textual page creation tools.
This generates lean HTML code.
External HTML mode, [ultimate control over HTML]. Work in any HTML editor..

Does anybody have any experience with the 2.02 release? I have been
evaluating it for a couple weeks and I find it terrific!

Please let us hear your comments..

jorge
- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher <chris@christopher.org>
To: 'babble@highfive.com' <babble@highfive.com>
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: wysiwyg

>I recommend Dreamweaver for these of reasons over other wysiwyg eidtors:
>
>- it doesn't mess around with your pre-existing code (well, not much)
>- it comes bundled with BBEdit or HomeSite
>- DHTML for Dummies, you can create slick movements and positioning effects
>without knowing a lick of JavaScript.
>- easy to throw up basic pages and then tweak the code in BBEdit or
>HomeSite. This method shaves hours off my work cycle.
>
>I also own NetObjects Fusion, but haven't had the heart to watch it destroy
>my handcrafted html. I also don't want to limit myself to it's basic web
>page layout.
>
>Christopher Schmitt
> new media designer
> http://www.christopher.org/
>
>..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html
>..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to majordomo@highfive.com:
>."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:37:21 +0100
From: Pascale Camus-Walter <camwal@cybercable.tm.fr>
Subject: Viruses?

Babble digest 161 ------> is really the most indigest post I'v got since a
couple of days (wwweeks, months...).

What means this sudden drop of quality and ** too ** frequent old posts and
other pages full of +ù*`°)-&# in the babble list?

Viruses? Hackers?
War against design!

Il est plus facile de rayer l'obscurité que la lumière. R. Juarroz
+---------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
artKfee: http://www.cybercable.fr/~camwal/
The Waltercolour studio: http://geocities.datacellar.net/SoHo/Gallery/5806/
apastras: http://web.superb.net/apastras
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:03:18 -0500
From: Kevin Travers <kwt@highfive.com>
Subject: subject lines and replies

Hello Babblers!

Great to see all the activity on the Babble List ... what a great
resource. We all get a lot of mail, so lets do our best to have
descriptive subject lines ... (RE: Babble Digest #34 doesn't cut it! :)
This makes going through the mail a lot quicker. If you see a subject
line that reads ... "RE: DHTML problems!" but don't want to read up on
DHTML right now, you can file it or delete it. Just be descriptive.

also, I'm seeing a lot of *long* replies, like entire digests trailing
behind the actual message. You should only have the relevant info in your
reply message.

thanks for helping to keep the great info flowing ... see you on the list!

(notice 4 line sig file ... *ahem* :)

Kevin Travers
H I G H F I V E
http://www.highfive.com
kevin@highfive.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:59:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Newell <matt@ns.qnis.net>
Subject: my windows are spawning satan...

pick it, flick it, just help me out a lil...

it creates the window just fine... but ie 4 gets cranky and irks up a
error. :|

heh. any help would be appreciated.

-- jEsTeR

www.sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
jester@sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
whatever is not nailed down is mine;
what i can pry loose, is not nailed down

------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #162
****************************

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