Babble v1 164

babble-digest Tuesday, January 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 164

In this issue:
Re: Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?
Re: pc version of navigator 3.0?
Re: (page refresh)Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?
onmouseover--> sounds.
Re: (page refresh)Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?
Re: pc version of navigator 3.0?
Re: PC version of Navigator 3.0?
Re: (page refresh)Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?
found a remedy for navigator problem
RE: pc version of navigator 3.0?
wysiwyg
Re: onmouseover--> sounds.
hidden inputs
Re: hidden inputs
dreamweaver is okay
background art schematics
Re: onmouseover--> sounds.
Red background?
RE: wysiwyg

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:35:20 -0600
From: "Chris Kaminski" <ckaminski@genoabusforms.com>
Subject: Re: Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?

>>Hi!
>>Somebody wrote, some weeks ago, about a bug in Netscape due to the
>><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html;CHARSET=iso-
>>8859-1"> tag. When this tag is present, Netscape reloads sometimes the
>>page, without any reason.
>
>This happens only on the Mac version Of Netscape 3.
>
>Lisa G

Actually, I've experienced a similar bug ("feature"?) on NS 3 on NT, but I never isolated it to that tag.

Chris Kaminski
Intranet Designer
Genoa Business Forms, Inc.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:08:47 +0000
From: "Tammy Jackson" <tajassoc@intrlink.com>
Subject: Re: pc version of navigator 3.0?

jeff faulkner, Trope newMedia <trope@teleport.com> wrote:

> there's a bug and navigator won't set up . anyway, i'm trying to
> find navigator 3.0 for pc and no one seems to have it . even
> netscape won't send me a copy on disc . pcwarehouse can't even help
> . any suggestions ? a new

Try <http://www.browser.com/>
They keep lots of different versions of most browsers for download.

- -----------------------------------------
Tamara A. Jackson, President
TAJ & Associates, Inc.
Troutville, Virginia U.S.A.
tajassoc@intrlink.com * http://www.intrlink.com/~tajassoc/
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:21:13 -0500
From: Dana Adams <dana@studiowerks.com>
Subject: Re: (page refresh)Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?

Some additional information.

It seems from some recent testing I just did that the "page refresh"
still occurs under certain conditions (at least for Netscape
Communicator 4.04 on Wintel)

If a page uses the <!DOCTYPE tag, background images & frames the refresh
will occur after all the framesets get loaded - but only the first time
the browser has seen the page - returning to a previously viewed page
does not exhibit the refresh problem.
(I used the http://www.mutualofomaha.com site to verify this)

If the page uses background images & frames but not the <!DOCTYPE tag,
the refresh problem *does not* occur at all.
(I referred to the http://www.wausau.com site to verify this)

This test is not completely valid since I haven't found a site that uses
a background image in *all* the frames of a page AND does not use the
<!DOCTYPE tag...

just my .02

- --
dana adams
http://www.studiowerks.com
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:00:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Newell <matt@ns.qnis.net>
Subject: onmouseover--> sounds.

howdy,

i was trying to figure out the easiest way to do some on mouseovers that
play a sound when the moust touches it.

i played with document.soundon.play(1), and embedded the sound on the page
as invisible, but didnt work, if anyone has this code laying around,
please let me know.

thanx in advance,

-- jEsTeR

www.sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
jester@sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
whatever is not nailed down is mine;
what i can pry loose, is not nailed down

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:12:36 -0600
From: "Robert A. Nehlig" <gentle@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: (page refresh)Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?

Dana Adams wrote:

> If a page uses the <!DOCTYPE tag, background images & frames the refresh
> will occur after all the framesets get loaded - but only the first time
> the browser has seen the page - returning to a previously viewed page
> does not exhibit the refresh problem.
> (I used the http://www.mutualofomaha.com site to verify this)
>
> If the page uses background images & frames but not the <!DOCTYPE tag,
> the refresh problem *does not* occur at all.
> (I referred to the http://www.wausau.com site to verify this)
>
> This test is not completely valid since I haven't found a site that uses
> a background image in *all* the frames of a page AND does not use the
> <!DOCTYPE tag...

Someone mentioned to me that Windows NT servers are the source for the page
refreshes, citing the phenomenon as a way in which one can tell an NT server
from a Unix. I have never been able to verify this claim. Perhaps someone
can test it.

Rob

- --
Robert A. Nehlig III To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
ICQ UIN: 823368 Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
mailto:gentle@mindless.com And Eternity in a hour
http://geocities.datacellar.net/Area51/Dimension/5268/ -William Blake

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:34:13 -0500
From: "RhapsodyIB@msn.com" <RhapsodyIB@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: pc version of navigator 3.0?

>Trope newMedia wrote:
>>
>> two weeks ago i bought a pc to cross check my designs . the problem is
>> explorer is totally integrated and it will not let me download navigator
>> (or anything else that doesn't bare the name microsoft) . everytime i try
>> there's a bug and navigator won't set up .

I am not an advocate of IE nor Navigator in particular but what you are
claiming is simply not true. In IE you have an "option" of integrating with
desktop as an option in installation. In setup it asks for your options. :-)

I have been downloading Netscape via IE for sometime without any problem. I
use both web browsers and no conflict at all. Both in Mac and PC.

Netscape earlier versions:

http://home.netscape.com/download/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:36:47 -0500
From: "Kari_S" <Kari_S@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: PC version of Navigator 3.0?

I have been downloading Netscape via IE for sometime without any problem. I
use both web browsers and no conflict at all. Both in Mac and PC.

Netscape earlier versions:

http://home.netscape.com/download/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:12:59 -0600
From: "Chris Kaminski" <ckaminski@genoabusforms.com>
Subject: Re: (page refresh)Bug in Netscape: in which conditions?

>Someone mentioned to me that Windows NT servers are the source for the
>page refreshes,

The place I used to work at hosted all their sites on NT, but only 1 site
I did ever did the refresh thing, so unless NT servers somehow are affected
by documents with the <DOCTYPE> tag (and I have no idea why they would be),
I doubt it has anything to do with whether the server is running on NT or
UNIX.
It really seems more like a client-side thing, if you ask me.

Chris Kaminski
Intranet Designer
Genoa Business Forms, Inc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:23:57 -0700
From: Trope newMedia <trope@teleport.com>
Subject: found a remedy for navigator problem

in regard to the issue of downloading navigator via ie, PROBLEM SOLVED .
thanks for your help everyone, no need to keep talking about this .

jeff faulkner

____________________________________________
<b>TropE new media creative</b> now up and running at
http://www.teleport.com/~trope
_____________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:19:43 -0800
From: "Greenwood, Roy M" <roy.m.greenwood@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: pc version of navigator 3.0?

I agree. I use Windows 95, and NT 4.0 Workstation on both PC's I have
IE 4.01 with Desktop intergration. Netscape 4.04, Netscape 3.04 and
Netscape 2.02 to test my designs with them with no conflicts. Before
you start blaming Microsoft check for a possible PC problem.

Roy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: RhapsodyIB@msn.com [SMTP:RhapsodyIB@email.msn.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 2:34 PM
> To: babble@highfive.com
> Subject: Re: pc version of navigator 3.0?
>
>
>
> >Trope newMedia wrote:
> >>
> >> two weeks ago i bought a pc to cross check my designs . the problem
> is
> >> explorer is totally integrated and it will not let me download
> navigator
> >> (or anything else that doesn't bare the name microsoft) . everytime
> i try
> >> there's a bug and navigator won't set up .
>
>
> I am not an advocate of IE nor Navigator in particular but what you
> are
> claiming is simply not true. In IE you have an "option" of integrating
> with
> desktop as an option in installation. In setup it asks for your
> options. :-)
>
> I have been downloading Netscape via IE for sometime without any
> problem. I
> use both web browsers and no conflict at all. Both in Mac and PC.
>
> Netscape earlier versions:
>
> http://home.netscape.com/download/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
> ..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html
> ..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to
> majordomo@highfive.com:
> ."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:09:56 +0100
From: cvodb <vonb@xs4all.nl>
Subject: wysiwyg

I prefer writing html by hand, but sometimes whipping up some pages can be
done quickly in one of these wysisyg editors. I've tried a lot of them, but
am disappointed with the results - they all make garbage of your carefully
written html. So far, the one that seems to do the least damage is
Symantec's Visual Page, but I was wondering if any of you have any good
experiences with other progs & can recommend me one for mac and/or windows.

cheers,

Caroline
'Through it all she offers me protection
a lot of love and affection whether I'm right or wrong
I'm loving angels instead' - Robbie Williams
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:22:15 -0500
From: tad davis <taddavis@interport.net>
Subject: Re: onmouseover--> sounds.

check out http://webreview.com/97/04/04/coder/

At 10:00 AM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:

>howdy,

>i was trying to figure out the easiest way to do some on mouseovers that

>play a sound when the moust touches it.

>i played with document.soundon.play(1), and embedded the sound on the page

>as invisible, but didnt work, if anyone has this code laying around,

>please let me know.

>thanx in advance,

> -- jEsTeR

> www.sweetillusions.org

> == ================================= === ==

> jester@sweetillusions.org

> == ================================= === ==

> whatever is not nailed down is mine;

> what i can pry loose, is not nailed down

>..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html

>..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to majordomo@highfive.com:

>."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"

<center>//////////////////////////////**************\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean I

</center><center>\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\**************///////////////////////////////</center>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:07:23 +0000
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
Subject: hidden inputs

hi y'all
i have a small cgi related query, wonder if any of the xperts ou there have an
easy solution.

one of the websites i've produced has a simple search system (it's at
www.phw.co.uk/searcher.html), which allows input for boolean and case. I want to
put a mini version of this on the first page, but there ain't room for the extra
input controls, so is there any way of specifying boolean/case defaults in the
page?

i'm not sure how clearly i'm explaining this, but any help would be gratefully
appreciated.

"don't know about you but i am un chien andalusia"
Paul Frost 'Webmeister' <giggle/apologies>
www.phw.co.uk Priority Healthcare Wearside
paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk Sunderland, UK
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:58:13 -0800
From: "Lawrence Lee" <tomalak@dsoe.com>
Subject: Re: hidden inputs

Easy... just stick the hidden variable in the HTML form and it'll pass the
variable onto the CGI script. If you match the variable/value to what your
CGI script is expecting then everything should work.

This should work (Using OR as boolean default):
<INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="boolean" Value="OR">
<INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="case" Value="Insensitive">

You really should pick up the CGI Programming Book from O'Rielly... It'll
get you up and running quickly.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
To: babble@highfive.com <babble@highfive.com>
Date: January 26, 1998 10:38 AM
Subject: hidden inputs

[...]
>one of the websites i've produced has a simple search system (it's at
>www.phw.co.uk/searcher.html), which allows input for boolean and case. I
want to
>put a mini version of this on the first page, but there ain't room for the
extra
>input controls, so is there any way of specifying boolean/case defaults in
the
>page?
>
>i'm not sure how clearly i'm explaining this, but any help would be
gratefully
>appreciated.
>
[...]

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:33:28 -0700
From: Trope newMedia <trope@teleport.com>
Subject: dreamweaver is okay

>I prefer writing html by hand, but sometimes whipping up some pages can be
>done quickly in one of these wysisyg editors. I've tried a lot of them, but
>am disappointed with the results - they all make garbage of your carefully
>written html. So far, the one that seems to do the least damage is
>Symantec's Visual Page, but I was wondering if any of you have any good
>experiences with other progs & can recommend me one for mac and/or windows.

macromedia's dreamweaver is pretty good . it integrates bbedit very well
and doesn't seem to mess up those ingenious hacks you stay up all night
writing . i just ordered the full version after using the beta for a little
while , i'll let you know how it goes . for me, nothing can replace bbedit,
but dreamweaver does seem to save time with staging and is pretty ambitious
in regard to dynamic html, javascript etc .

jeff faulkner

____________________________________________
<b>TropE new media creative</b> now up and running at
http://www.teleport.com/~trope
_____________________________________________

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:07:59 +1000
From: Caleb Fuller <email@calebfuller.com>
Subject: background art schematics

>got a design question - i'd like to use some background schematic drawing
>like the stuff used here: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/

>first off, is there a name for that kind of art? some esoteric designer
>speak i'm not familiar with ? secondly, are there formal resources for that
>sort of thing ? did they draw it in illustrator maybe? i've found lots of
>old books and stuff with that kind of art - do others just scan old stuff
>in ? what would you do it you wanted to design something like this?

To make stuff like this just start with a lot of pictures and schematics and
diagrams. Scanning old stuff works fine (as long as you have a right to use
it). If you have drawn your own diagrams, even better. Make each image a layer
in Photoshop. Set the mode for the layer to Multiply if they don't have
transparent backgrounds, which they won't if scanned. Position them as you
please, adjust hue/saturation (usually making them some monochromatic shade
for backgrounds) and fiddle with the transparency to achieve your desired effect.
If the images you want to use are really old, you should be right - I
believe copyright lasts fifty years? Anyone able to confirm this? I wouldn't
recommend using new copyrighted stuff on a commercial project, so be careful.
As for what its called...umm...cool schematic backgrounds?...leonardo
davinci style background? I just think it looks good...

Caleb Fuller
analog creations | for the digital world
email@calebfuller.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:06:54 -0800
From: Luis Cota <softech@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: onmouseover--> sounds.

Matt Newell wrote:
>
> howdy,
>
> i was trying to figure out the easiest way to do some on mouseovers that
> play a sound when the moust touches it.
>
> i played with document.soundon.play(1), and embedded the sound on the page
> as invisible, but didnt work, if anyone has this code laying around,
> please let me know.
>
> thanx in advance,
>
> -- jEsTeR

the best way to do this is to use flash, by macromedia. it is very easy
to embed sounds for rollovers. check it out
http://www.macromedia.com

luis cota
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:55:57 -0800
From: "Mathieu Daoust" <mdaoust@total.net>
Subject: Red background?

Hi,

Is a red background (255,0,0) for all a site is considered bad?
I feel doing a project this way but not sure...

Mathieu Daoust
mdaoust@total.net

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:04:19 -0800
From: Christopher <chris@christopher.org>
Subject: RE: wysiwyg

I recommend Dreamweaver for these of reasons over other wysiwyg eidtors:

- - it doesn't mess around with your pre-existing code (well, not much)
- - it comes bundled with BBEdit or HomeSite
- - DHTML for Dummies, you can create slick movements and positioning effects
without knowing a lick of JavaScript.
- - easy to throw up basic pages and then tweak the code in BBEdit or
HomeSite. This method shaves hours off my work cycle.

I also own NetObjects Fusion, but haven't had the heart to watch it destroy
my handcrafted html. I also don't want to limit myself to it's basic web
page layout.

Christopher Schmitt
new media designer
http://www.christopher.org/

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------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #164
****************************

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