Babble v1 169

babble-digest Thursday, January 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 169

In this issue:
printing from a button
Gabocorp: the morning after
Bugs - Nav4 and Java, Flash 2 and PC's
Market Driven Web? (Was: [Re: Gabbo agonistes] )
Re: Babylon 5
Thank You - Starting out in Shockwave
JS Book recommendation?
Gabocorp -- Best Thread Yet!
RE: babble-digest V1 #166
Re: JS Book recommendation?
Re: Gabocorp...
Re: JS Book recommendation?
Re: babble-digest V1 #168
gabbo simpsons parallel?
Re: gabbo simpsons parallel?
Re: REVIEW : R3PTILIA
art vs business
RE: Babylon and On 5
Subject Lines (was Re: babble-digest V1 #168)
Re: Netscape dithering [was: babble-digest V1 #168]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:56:47 -0800
From: Jason Harris <jason@meniscusdesign.com>
Subject: printing from a button

It is indeed possible to make a graphic or text link via JS to the print
function. I have posted an example test page at:
http://www.meniscusdesign.com/test/buttonorama.html A warning: this will
only work correctly in NN 3&4. In IE only the back/forward buttons work.
Please feel free to examine the source and utilize yourself, I have not
worked on a site yet where anything but the back/forward buttons were
actually useful, but let me know of any URLs that you all use this on.

Also if some of the other JS-ers on the list would like to improve on
this (like get it to work in IE), I would be very interested in the
result.

And, oh yes I could not resist giving my two(3) cents on gab(ing);

1. it contains the word GAB (to talk incessantly). Well, mission
accomplished on that one.

2. Wasn't gabba-gabba-hey the code for invincibility in the game
descent? It would be in keeping with the ego and video-game quick style.

3. Nice sense of graphics, the spinning compass like element was great,
but did you notice the atrocious typography? It really shows that this
person has no grounding in the DISCIPLINE of design. Boxes are made to
be broken out of, of course, but one needs a basic understanding of
design theory and typography first. If this "kid", if indeed he is a
young kid, gets himself into design school then Holy S*$%, we had better
look out in a few years!

Jason Harris
Meniscus { i n t e r a c t i v e d e s i g n }
http://www.meniscusdesign.com
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:36:07 -0000
From: Robin <rgrant@brann-interactive.com>
Subject: Gabocorp: the morning after

Dear All

Glad to see my post encouraged some meaningful debate on design. I'm sorry I didn't contribute anything to the discussion until now, but long ago I switched to the digest version of this list, in order that I could actually get some work done.

I thought Gabocorp - http://www.gabocorp.com/ - was worthy of mention, not because of its viability as a commercial site (there are reasons all the top agencies customer sites look the same), but because it is so fresh and unusual. Ok, so the graphic design is a bit ropey (imho), but the use of scaled and rotated vector graphics combined with a totally integrated aural experience really makes an impact. More so that any other site I have seen. Of course, the fact that it was done by a lone 19 year old in Puerto Rico is also quite amazing.

For those of you interested in seeing more sites that make me sit back and reflect, and warm my heart with joy for the future of our medium, you should check out http://www.perfect.co.uk/ - a page where I put links to sites such as Gabocorp, as and when I find them.

enjoy...

Robin

==========================================================
Robin Grant, Production Manager, Brann Interactive
100 Victoria, Bristol, UK, BS1 6HE - http://www.brann-interactive.com/
phone: 0117 914 6260, fax: 0117 914 6125, mobile: 0973 638 390
email: robin@perfect.co.uk, icq: 362763, www: http://www.perfect.co.uk/
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:18:35 +1030
From: david doull <doull@box.net.au>
Subject: Bugs - Nav4 and Java, Flash 2 and PC's

Hey all,

I've encounter some bugs and want to get an idea of how wide spread they
are.
In Netscape 4.0 I've some problems with Java Applets that use images,
namely:
1. transparent gifs images just disappear when placed over jpeg's on
Nav4 but not Nav3
2. some time get class violation error -security when applet is loaded
from a local drive and uses images, but this doesn't occur when the
applet comes form the server?
3. Some applets work fine on PC's but not on Mac Nav 4

In some cases my solution to this has been forced to be to develop a
DHTML version of the applet and redirect Nav4 users to this.

Also Flash 2.0 animations on my PC only work with the display set to 256
colours, I just get a blank square on higher colour depths. I've tested
this on quite a few PC's and have found that it occurs on some but not
on others - I believe the video driver/card is what makes the difference
(I know the problem occurs if you have a diamond stealth 3d 2000 card
- -this is a pretty common card). I've emailed macromedia about this but
alas no reply.
Basically this has put me off using flash 2 animations because a
percentage of users (I don't know how big??) won't see anything! Please
Note this bug does NOT apply to shockwave movies or animation only Flash
2.0.

any comments or common experience's??
regards
david

david doull
doull@box.net.au
www.box.net.au/~doull/

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:44:35 -0500
From: Jeffrey Miller <jeff@l9.com>
Subject: Market Driven Web? (Was: [Re: Gabbo agonistes] )

Jeffrey Zeldman wrote:
>
> Like an earlier poster, I was pained by this statement:
>
> >the web
> >exists strictly for marketing. without it, there is no way it would
> >survive. period.
>
> I'd argue that *the web as we now know it* is marketing-driven, but this is
> not its only, primary, or ultimate purpose. We are in a transition period,
> from academic/military "visual ham radio" to a seamless communication
> medium which will ultimately be available to everyone, and which will
> continue to evolve in ways none of us can imagine. For now, marketing
> drives the software (with mixed results) and provides employment for some
> of us.

The web in its current state reminds me of the early days of radio.
Never heard that story? Oh, good, a captive audience.. :) Seriously,
early radio parallels the development of the web.

At first, radio was envisioned as a replacement for the telephone.
Everyone would have a transmitter and a receiver, and a listing of their
friends frequencies. Why? Ever seen photographs from this earlier era?
burying phone lines was unheard of then. Hundreds of phone and power
lines criss-crossed the open sky above each and every city street,
weaving a net of rubber and copper above the city. Radio was thought to
be able to restore the grandeur and picturesque views of the cities to
their pre-telephone state.

After the 'radio as a personal communications device' shake out, an
early 'HAM' started playing rare records he collected on his transmitter
to entertain his friends. The idea stuck, and soon it became a popular
pastime for everyone who owned a radio - what was the strangest
'station' you could find? Which was farthest away?

Now radio takes off as an entertainment medium. Everyone is building a
transmitter, without knowing exactly why. Newspapers, Joe Prozac,
churches, clubs, Daughters of the American Revolution, Veteran's groups
- - everybody had their own radio station, and no one knew what to do with
it. It was simply known that they 'had to have one to stay ahead.' Sound
familiar?

Now comes a crisis in radio - how do we pay for these things? What was
the point? Where do we find programming to fill 24/7? Slowly, the wheat
was separated from the chaff, as those who couldn't afford to transmit
radio dropped out of site. Radio Stations came into being, many as
offshoots of marketing departments of stores or newspapers. Radio
advertising comes into being. Ever heard those old shows? The subtle and
almost timid, yet at the same time often repeated advertisers, what we
now call 'Product Placement'? A revenue model was born. Networks sprung
up (NBC was first) to solve the content question, providing a consistent
quality of content.

ON THE SUBJECT OF THE WEB 'existing strictly for marketing':

Simply put, you're wrong. I second Jeffrey Z.'s comments about the web's
ultimate purpose being separate from marketing. It originated as a
communications tool for the government and members of the scientific
community to communicate, not to peddle arts & crafts or as a vehicle
for free speech. I'm not suggesting that it's not suited, used, or
making any judgment about arts & crafts or free speech - marketing
simply is NOT the reason for the web's genesis, NOR is it the reason the
web continues to exist.

- -Jeffrey, refusing to follow the herd, and will continue to use common
English grammer/punc/cap/characters-

=8^)

- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeffrey Miller - Production/Creative Design
Level Nine - http://www.L9.com
Home Page - http://www.amergin.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:56:06 -0600
From: Jeremy Marx <jmarx@sparknet.net>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5

At 01:27 AM 1/29/98 , Tari Akpodiete wrote:
>Someone wrote:
>
> "right now this site reminds me of that
> babylon 5 show. it looks really good, it
> sounds really good, but the script sucks."
>
>To which I reply:
>
> LAY OFF BABYLON 5!!!

I second that!!

But isn't this off-topic or something? :-/

J e r e m y M a r x
Webmaster
SparkNET Interactive
<http://www.sparknet-interactive.com/>http://www.sparknet-interactive.com/
ICQ: <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5719871>http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5719871

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:17:37 -0600
From: Jeremy Marx <jmarx@sparknet.net>
Subject: Thank You - Starting out in Shockwave

Thank you's go out to all who responded to my question on shockwave/flash.
I now have enough information to begin the learning process. Thank you again.

J e r e m y M a r x
Webmaster
SparkNET Interactive
<http://www.sparknet-interactive.com/>http://www.sparknet-interactive.com/
ICQ: <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5719871>http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5719871

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:31:20 +0000
From: "David P. Leader" <d.leader@bio.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: JS Book recommendation?

Can anyone recommend a javascript book which has an emphasis on graphic
tricks and explains the language clearly?

I bought a Danny Goodman book on the subject a couple of years back, but
(perhaps because the initial javascript was limited) found it focussed on
doing things that either irritated me when I saw them executed (extra
windows and the like) or related primarily to form filling. I mention this,
not as criticism of that book, but to indicate what I am NOT looking for. I
realize that one can modify other people's javascript examples, but I'd
like something that laid out the language clearly so I can understand the
scripts and work stuff out for myself. Any suggestions?

David

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:23:33 -0600
From: Pat Flanagan <pfpd@pfpd.com>
Subject: Gabocorp -- Best Thread Yet!

I've been around here since very close to the start of the list (even
though it's still very young), and I'd have to say the Gabocorp thread may
be the best discussion we've had here. We've concisely touched on a lot of
topics (navigation schemes, content vs. presentation, thinking out of the
box) in one intensive burst. This type of discussion is what will drive
this list.

Oh, what did I think of the site? AWESOME, for what it is. As Tari
mentioned earlier, it's a portfolio site. It's a "looky what I can do"
site. And, as such, it is one of the best I've seen. True, an actual
corporate or business site would need the flashiness toned down a bit and
the content turned up a lot, but hey, within the boundaries of what he's
trying to accomplish, I think he hit a home run. My jaw was on the floor,
at least.

Of course, I wish it didn't require a plug-in download for those who don't
already have it, but I think it won't be too long before the Flash plug-in
is a standard. More sites like this will ensure that.
____________________
PFPD -- newmedia marketing consulting
a limited liability company
PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 v:616.663.2250
<mailto:pfpd@pfpd.com> -- <http://www.pfpd.com>
competitive business advantages through creative technology
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:24:02 -0000
From: Ivan Rous <irous@noblequest.com>
Subject: RE: babble-digest V1 #166

I've noticed some postings about refreshing a web page, and the method I
use is the following:

The above META tag will bring up the page "mypage.html" after "900"
seconds (15 minutes) of inactivity.

o-o
L
^^^
V

ivan
irous@noblequest.com

"Even a broken watch is correct twice a day"
- - Old Yugoslavian Proverb

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:43:49 -0500 (EST)
From: c l a r a s o h <clara.soh@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: JS Book recommendation?

i've only leafed through the JS book so i don't know if they have an extra
emphasis on graphic tricks, but i've found that O'reilly usually has the
best books on everything. they're very clearly written and have good
explanations.

> Can anyone recommend a javascript book which has an emphasis on graphic
> tricks and explains the language clearly?

clara

____________________________________ c . l . a . r . a . . pc'99__________

if you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is
where they should be. now put the foundations under them.
-hdt
________http://pantheon.yale.edu/~claras__________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:58:32 -0500
From: mike randall <mrandall@imcinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Gabocorp...

> flowing navigational structure, and overall "wow" factor. It _was_
> awesome, we all know it, and I suspect some of us are a little bit jealous.

this is definetly the case. especially for those who are criticizing
his work without stating just what he/she found wrong with it.

he did a good job and got our attention.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 11:18:08 -0500
From: John Mayberry <jmayberry@bradydesign.com>
Subject: Re: JS Book recommendation?

>i've only leafed through the JS book so i don't know if they have an extra
>emphasis on graphic tricks, but i've found that O'reilly usually has the
>best books on everything. they're very clearly written and have good
>explanations.
>
>
>> Can anyone recommend a javascript book which has an emphasis on graphic
>> tricks and explains the language clearly?
>
>clara

The book is excelent. However, it focuses on the language, and
compatability. It is great as a reference, and for learning javascript,
but it does not give you lists of predone scripts and applications of the
language.

- --
John Pierson Mayberry John Brady Design Consultants Inc.
jmayberry@bradydesign.com http://www.bradydesign.com
http://www3.pgh.net/~jmayberr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:29:53 -0700
From: Helene LaCaille <lacaille@slip.net>
Subject: Re: babble-digest V1 #168

I'm building my web site, an online portfolio. When viewed through Net.
3.0, my jpeg's look good, but when viewed through Net. Communicator,
images
dither...suggestions?
helene@commdes.com

I submitted the above question yesterday but got no reply. I realize
everyone is engrossed with Gabo at the moment...but if someone could
simply answer this simple question or point my in another direction. And
I apologize if this isn't the right forum for such a question. Again,
perhaps someone could suggest a more appropriate list.
Thanks again.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:52:42 -0700
From: Trope newMedia <trope@teleport.com>
Subject: gabbo simpsons parallel?

anyone notice the gabbo simpsons parallel ? maybe it's too obvious to
mention, but what the hell - i'm referring to the simpsons episode where a
ventriloquists dummy named gabbo (yes that's his name), slides into town
and with his superior performance ability, wows the tv viewership of
springfield away from krusty the clown . krusty, moments before giving up,
decides to stage a comeback by hosting a variety show with jonny carson and
luke perry, eventually krusty gets back on track . the point is gabbo has
inspired krusty to be a better clown and krusty rises to the challenge .
Unfortunately gabbo turns out to be a nasty little bastard and springfield
would eventually turn on him . but my parallel ends before that .

gabbo - the guy in puerto rico - i'm sure is not a nasty little bastard,
but he has inspired me to exorcise the krusty within - that complacent,
mediocre clown who prompts me to cut corners and play down technology - and
simply be a better clown .

when i found out gabbo was 19 i decided to recant all i said in regard to
his lack of business savy . gabbo rocks . flash rocks . this is our future
and to me it looks very bright . it reminds me why i got in this business
in the first place - its protean dynamic mind blowing nature . this stuff
is alive .

hail gabbo .

jeff faulkner

____________________________________________
<b>TropE new media creative</b> now up and running at
http://www.teleport.com/~trope
_____________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:33:55 -0500
From: mike randall <mrandall@imcinternet.net>
Subject: Re: gabbo simpsons parallel?

> his lack of business savy . gabbo rocks . flash rocks . this is our future
> and to me it looks very bright . it reminds me why i got in this business
> in the first place - its protean dynamic mind blowing nature . this stuff
> is alive .

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

thank you.

here's to CHANGE.

- -mike
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 09:42:02 -0000
From: brian pink <brianp@gofullcircle.com>
Subject: Re: REVIEW : R3PTILIA

>http://www.pragma.com.co/reptilia

i thought this site was not too bad, but i have one question. how does it
handle a slower computer. i've got a 7300/240 with way too much ram, so
are the big background images and animations problems on machines with
less memory and slower processors? (i've been spoiled too long.) same
question for gabocorp. how did it handle on a "consumer" machine Mac or
Windows? i'm not trying to be snotty i'm just a little curious.

brian p.

brian pink
minister of propaganda
.........................................

you can take my mac...
when you pry my cold dead fingers off the mouse!
.........................................

full circle! marketing, design & printing
.........................................

Voice: 509.525.3466
E-mail: brianp@gofullcircle.com
Web: http://www.gofullcircle.com

.........................................

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:40:24 -0500
From: Tari Akpodiete <tari@sympatico.ca>
Subject: art vs business

Not everything on the Web is about marketing.

Sometimes it is about art, don't forget that...

- --
...Webmaster Training Coordinator at Digital Media Studios......
...http://www.h-plus-a.com/dms-itdc/studios/studiow.htm.........
...Creator of The Web Publishing Resource Guide (aka TheWPRG)...
...on America Online - http://members.aol.com/thewprg/ .........
...ICQ Internet Pager - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2131290 .......
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:57:06 -0500
From: "Brian Alvey" <balvey@obnm.com>
Subject: RE: Babylon and On 5

>Someone wrote:
>
> > "right now this site reminds me of that
> > babylon 5 show. it looks really good, it
> > sounds really good, but the script sucks."
> >
> >To which Tari replies:
> >
> > LAY OFF BABYLON 5!!!
>
>To which J e r e m y M a r x adds:
>
> But isn't this off-topic or something? :-/

What could be more on-topic than comparing Babylon 5 to High Five using High Five's own Babble on Babble@HighFive.com?

Maybe it's just me, but this is the first place I'd look...

-- Brian

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:27:50 -0800
From: "Michael Liu" <mliu@compellingimages.com>
Subject: Subject Lines (was Re: babble-digest V1 #168)

> I submitted the above question yesterday but got no reply. I
> realize everyone is engrossed with Gabo at the moment...but if
> someone could simply answer this simple question or point my in
> another direction.

Hi Helene,

Unfortunately, I do not have a solution to your problem.

But allow me to make a helpful suggestion for future posts; one that may
help you get more responses to your questions: change the subject lines of
your posts to something that reflects the nature of your problem or
question.

For example, change:
"Re: babble-digest V1 #168"
to:
"JPEG dithering problem in Communicator"

Also, you should realize that responses to a question do not always come
within 24 hours.

Good luck,

Michael Liu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:41:07 -0600
From: Tommy Williams <tommy.williams@Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: Re: Netscape dithering [was: babble-digest V1 #168]

At 21:29 -0600 on 01/29/98, Helene LaCaille wrote:

> I submitted the above question yesterday but got no reply. I realize
> everyone is engrossed with Gabo at the moment...but if someone could
> simply answer this simple question or point my in another direction.

There are some bad problems with Communicator and dithering graphics. Read
about them at:

The Netscape Communicator Petition
<http://www.artware.de/nc4petition/>

To improve the chances of a reply, correct your subject line from "Re:
babble-digest V1 #168" to an appropriate one.

Many people ignore messages without an appropriate subject line, especially
if they *don't* receive the digest version.

- --
Tommy Williams
mailto:tommy.williams@Vanderbilt.Edu
<URL:http://www.mc.Vanderbilt.Edu/~tommy/>

------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #169
****************************

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