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• Eight States of Jhana (Samatha Meditation)
• No accidents "Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko"
• Meditation : Steps in the Buddha’s Discovery
• Dictionary Help!
• Vipassana Experience

While meditator is practicing meditation, it is better to know how far each one has success in practices. You may use the word “jhana” as a searching through the general web search engine or use following address: (Matthew recommended this site. Thank you very much. I also found lots of interesting information about Jhana.)

http://world.std.com/~metta/lib/ddp/wings/3e.html

http://world.std.com/~metta/dhamma/samma-samadhi.html

I found some relation between you and me. You seem to interest in the teachings of Thanissaro Bhikku whose teacher of his teacher was Phra Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo. Phra Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo was a respectful teacher of my grand pa. Last year I met Phra Ajaan Suchin who is the disciple of Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko whose Phra Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo was his teacher. Phra Ajaan Suchin is at Wat Dhammasatit in Rayong Province, Thailand. They are the Thai Forest monks that practice meditation diligently.

While scientist is trying to see the atom at super microscopic level, the energy such as from the electron microscope or from other viewing instruments will activate atoms to move. So it is not easy to catch an atom. What we learned about the picture INSIDE atom (electron, proton, and neutron) is not from real visualizing but from mathematical model. With this knowledge, the science can progress very fast by using some scientific knowledge that is not pure fact. However there may be secret scientists who can see INSIDE atom, I believe so.

Buddhism use the word “discernment” especially related with mindfulness and concentration. All kinds of feeling such as hate, angry, love, sad, or happy can be discerned vividly by meditation. Not only be sensed but also be VIEWED with the third eye. Love is viewed as red color. Hate is viewed as black or dark-grey color. Arahant’s feeling is white and light. So the being of “Enlightened” is related with viewing.

Buddhism goes beyond the science technology in viewing at super microscopic level and formless things. Relativity theory implies that with travelling at light speed, an observer can see the object travelling at same speed or lower. So the deep quiet mind can see things never be seen before. My posting of “Karma in a Glass of Water” is real practice through mind viewing. Everything no matter of particle, wave, matter, energy, feeling, Karma, or Dhamma can be seen with the mind at appropriated level. This is an answer why some meditators see picture while meditating. The most important question is what to do with the pictures seen in meditating by applying Buddhism’s way?

Please take the above statements as a hypothesis or possibility while you are not either ready to believe or understand. On the wall in front of the shrine that kept Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko’s body (at Wat Dhammasatit, Rayong Province, Thailand) has the following statements:

“Meditation practice must view dhatu (element). Viewing of dhatu and acknowledging 6 kinds of dhatu (water, earth, fire, wind, space, and consciousness) then joined these 6 dhatus to be one. Then try to concentrate focally to get strong binding energy. Energy will be collected then mind is fully filled and body is fully filled.

When dhatus are correctly connected, dhatus will be fully filled and enough. Then dhatus will progress by themselves to be only one. When dhatu is one then mind is one. Then back to view the mind. Concentrate at the mind, which is called mind of the mind. Until the understandings are emerged then release both of understandings and viewing together with all other things to be emptiness even the present element. Any understandings must then be unbinded. Then awakening will be the result by itself.” (My translation sentence by sentence is based on my understanding so it may not be fully correct.)

Very interesting! Yes, I am quite interested in the teachings of Thanissaro Bhikku. Did you know that he also studied under Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko? Thank you for your interesting comments about meditation and images in meditation. Although I agree that visions such as you describe correspond to realities, I was wandering in response to your question about how to respond to these images for one following the BuddhaDhamma, would they fall into the category of "mental dhammas" in the MahaSattipathana Sutta ? If so, perhaps the best response would be to simply observe them as mental objects in and of themselves, without craving or aversion.(as much as is possible) Or, if they strengthen concentration, perhaps they could be used as entries into the first Jhana, and then abandoned, as they would be "vittaka-vicara". Also, of course they could be used outside of meditation for the purpose of strengthening discernment and right view, as long as reflecting on them did not lead to too many imaginative or speculative thoughts, which one could get attached to instead of focusing on the present. There is a sutta I think which discusses this, I will try to find it.

These thoughts are offered only as thoughts, while having no understanding of what type of meditation you are doing, or where you are at in your progress in Bhavana. As to what was written on Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko's memorial site it was quite interesting. I'll have to think about it, since it's somewhat beyond my understanding. I do believe what you said earlier about the colors of mental/emotional states. Matthew

: Did you know that he also studied under Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko?

Yes, I read from the Wings to Awakening. Thank you again for recommends very good site. Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko had one-year study with Phra Ajaan Man Phuritatho who is very well known in Thailand as a great grand master of the Thai Forest Monk.

: I was wandering in response to your question about how to respond to these images for one following the BuddhaDhamma, would they fall into the category of "mental dhammas" in the MahaSattipathana Sutta?

I do not know whether it is “mental dhamma” but it is possible because the 4 th step of Satipatthana is not related with the body, the feelings, and the mind. The 4 th step of Satipatthana is very high concept and few teachers can explain it understandably. So instead of trying to explain what is the 4 th step or contemplation of mind-objects/Dhamma, it is another to say that what are not the first, second, and third step is belonging to the fourth.

I will try to write down the teaching from Dhammakaya Meditation that looks quite the same as Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko’s teaching. In the 4 th step of Satipatthana, dhatu will be separated from Dhamma. Dhatu will then be separated to sub-level to be 6 kinds of dhatu. Dhamma will be separated to be positive, negative, and neutral Dhamma. Dhamma controls each kind of dhatu. Negative Dhamma controls Dhatu of bad person. Then each kind of dhatu will be separated again to be 6 kinds of dhatu and this process will continue to sub of sub level as deep as the practitioner can meditate. Then Dhamma in each sub level of dhatu will be refined by the power of mind. This is the process to purify or refine the dhatu to be controlled only by positive and neutral Dhamma. This process is not only Samatha but also Vipassana that are practicing in the same process.

Samatha and Vipassana should not practice in different process. Advance meditator can practice Samatha and attain 4 th Jhana at wish and need only 1 or half second to pass through the 4 th Jhana. Vipassana will be followed immediately when the understandings or image are shown autonomously during Samatha. Normally we practice Vipassana to fight with the desire that we do not need such as smoking habit but "vittaka-vicara" from the thought or contemplating about smoking will be the fault of Samatha. So instead of Vipassana as normally which is not autonomously, we should apply Vipassana to the result emerging autonomously from Samatha. Samatha then Vipassana then Samatha then Vipassana then…its loop will continue back and forth very fast.

A type of meditation I am doing is Anapanasati together with Kasina (visualizing). I have to recall the image of a bright clear crystal ball inside my navel area. You may see more information from www.dhammakaya.org. It is just one part of my practice. This practice has 3 level for beginner, intermediate, and advance meditator. Intermediate and higher level need face-to-face testing with a teacher before accepting to progress. Beginner level of Dhammakaya may seem to be too easy, unreasonable, and strange but it just the first step to the real difficult steps. Satipatthana in the first glance may seem to be understandable but actually higher level of Satipatthana is quite difficult and must be practiced when the time is right for the right meditator’s understanding. Every objects of meditation has the same goal. So I believe that the type of meditation is not important as how correctly we can receive the benefit of meditating.

Before I continue, I must admit that I am still very stupid. Hope you do not mind that this posting is very long. To response with the image during meditation, image should be classified to be needed image and unneeded image. Needed image help us to meditate deeper while unneeded image is the fault. Beginner who can not prolong the Jhana should neglect any image appearances except the selected object of focusing. Object of focusing may be Bhavana or Kasina, which is the needed image. Simply observing the image is very difficult so I always neglect all unneeded image and return back to my selected object.

For advance meditator who can meditate at wish, he can focus to all kinds of image emerging in meditating and then try to find the cause of the image appearance. Every appearance has the reason and cause. So instead of practice as a beginner, advance meditator will search back to the cause of the cause of the image to find the original cause and solve it. He can do because he has power to do and his power is from deep attaining of Samatha. Breaking dhatu to sub level has the same concept of finding the cause of the cause. After finding the cause, the cause will be vaporized, bombed, lighted, or disintegrated as the fission process of nuclear energy. The words “vaporized, bombed, or disintegrated” are very powerful and have real effect in solving the cause. This is a trick of mind in dealing with image in meditating. Dhammakaya Meditation has more than 10-20 powerful words.

English for Thai people is a foreign language. It is not second language. Root of Thai language came partly from Pali and Sanskrit so as my name. So I prefer Pali than English sometime.

Meditation practice in the Buddha’s lifetime can be divided into 3 periods. Firstly, the meditation practices that Buddha learned from his teachers before he turned to the Middle Way. Samatha is these kinds of meditation practices. Samatha has another name called Jhana. Some Westerners translated Samatha as concentration but I disagree because Samatha has 8 states and concentration is only a tiny part of all process. Samatha started from one-pointed concentration and end with a formless form of emptiness. The Buddha found that the person who passes the Formless Samatha would reborn in Formless Realm. Formless Realm has no sufferings but after a very long period of time (millions of years and many times of Earth life) the people there will reborn again. So it is not the goal of the Buddha’s practice.

Secondly, the meditation practices that the Buddha himself and his disciples practiced for the enlightenment. The Buddha still practiced Samatha to sharpen and energize his mind. He practiced Samatha forwardly from 1 to 8 state and backwardly from 8 to 1 state as a mind exercise. Furthermore, the Buddha discovered Vipassana as a unique meditation practice of Buddhism. Vipassana was the practice that helped making his Dhamma, ended his suffering and ended his rebirth cycle. Vipassana is the process to apply right understanding to find the truths then gain wisdom as an outcome. There are many applications such as Samatha then Vipassana, Vipassana then Samatha, Samatha in Vipassana, and Vipassana in Samatha. All of these applications are not the same as to hide the sensory and perception as Samatha. Vipassana uses strong power of sensory and perception to empty the cause of suffering and rebirth.

Lastly, the meditation practices that the Buddha and other enlightened persons practiced after the enlightenment. After their liberation through voidness (Sunnata-vimokkha), they had no more truths to be liberated so they concentrated on the void (Sunnata-samadhi) as a kind of practices. This may be similar, as saying that in meditation, there is only reality and no experience of (more) truths. Emptiness is absolutely emptiness not because of there is nothing but there are no human’s words in any dictionary to represent the emptiness and condition of this level. Only the person who attains this level will understand.

There is a kind of emptiness but it is from Moha Samadhi (Fake and not Right Meditation). This kind of practice should be avoided because it starts from no concentration or concentration on nothing then ends at no awareness. It likes day dreaming with blank mind that gains nothing. It may be called the process of endarkenment.

I think it is not easy to know when and where is the end of meditation practice. There were also other meditation practices that the Buddha discovered during his 45 years after his enlightenment. Even the first Jhana is emptiness of some kind. There are many kinds and forms of emptiness that related to the steps of the Buddha’s discovery.

Dear Ann,

When you wrote “sitting meditation”, I believed you were writing about Samatha because the other parts of your sentence also supported your intention. However sitting is not just only for Samatha but also for Vipassana. Almost all manners can do meditation.

In Thai-Buddhism dictionary, the word “Meditation” is translated as Jhana. Jhana is translated as meditation, absorption, or a state of serene contemplation attained by meditation. The word “Concentration” is translated as Samadhi. “Samatha-bhavana” as concentration development. “Vipassana-bhavana” as insight development. “Bhavana” as development or meditation. So there are many applications from the meaning of meditation.

While my teacher says the word “Samadhi”, he usually means “Samatha”. The sentence “Sila, Samadhi, Panna", some teacher use Samadhi as both of Samatha and Vipassana then Panna is the wisdom that is the result from Sila and Samadhi. Some teacher use Samadhi as Samatha and Panna as Vipassana because Panna should derived directly from Vipassana.

A westerner writer used concentration as “Samatha” and meditation as “Vipassana”.

I think we better use Pali word instead. For other readers who do not know Pali, I use “Meditation” as “Samatha and/or Vipassana”. “Concentration” is not “Samatha” because concentration is just a part of Samatha. Samadhi is for any practices that need concentration. However I sometime do not use them correctly or directly so I recommend we should not rely only on the word.

Anyone who knows better please help, so that at least we in this forum will have the same dictionary. Or we better use Pali word.

Now I know that I did misuse the word "sitting meditation" as "Samatha" but the word does actually mean more than that. All in all, my point is just to emphasize the important of "Vipassana Meditation" as it is the only way that helps us gain wisdom and leads us to enlightenment.

ann 

Your practice sounds very good and should be the right start, I think. I will share some of my Vipassana experience too.

Vipassana starts without blank screen. It starts by watching to learn the body-mind process so it is better to practice Vipassana in everyday life to have something arisen in the mind. When I finish practicing Samatha, I will continue with Vipassana immediately.

After Samatha, whatever I feel, think, hear, or sense, I will find that its process begins with something arising-staying for awhile-then disappearing. This is anicca then anatta then this cycle will repeat itself again and again. I learn the nature of Anatta.

Next step may be continuing with Anatta until I see and feel that the real nature is not real as I experienced. Everything (at least at this level I will believe that it is everything not almost all things) is Anatta. Then I recall a past experience and think how anatta cause me sufferings. Craving and attachment can not win anatta. So I should extinguish the cause of sufferings, which is at this level, are craving and attachment. This step relates with the 4 noble truths.

Instead of continuing with the 4 noble truths as above, next step may be learning how body-mind process works with the five aggregates. I receive the picture through the eyes (rupa) and translate with my past experience and memory (sanna) then may own thought (sankhara) may bias and ignite the temper (vedana) that I know by my consciousness (vinnana). So after learning how the body-mind process works then I will try to disconnect the process.

Last updated
11-09-1999