...of course, I was a bit stoned and under the influence of 2 coffee mug sized espresso's after just waking up...
I found this argument interesting and a prime specimen of a typical argument between two sides(i.e. a religious Christian and a stoned, somewhat crazed, thinker/poet/artiste)...as I hope you do...anyway...here it is presented for you...
Note:
This is unedited and transcribed from the message of icq history, the entire conversation took over an hour, each side checking out each others web pages as we communicated through messages
T had a problem loading the audio files but went back later...presumably
And here is how it went...
T:(shown as blue) A number of years back, Jesus came into my life and has given me a wonderful life and the assurance that I would go to heaven. Have you heard of the 4 Spiritual laws? I would like to send to you the url about these so you could read them and let me know what you think of them. Ok?
Me:(shown as Purple) sure...Ill send you an url to my real audio poetry page...Ive got some philisophical ideas and essays on the subject...
Im a confirmed lutheran...Ive had years of religious training, but Ive parted from that way and moved towards new thinking, thanks to what I learned though from it all
(These sound files are in Real Audio format and located at these links)
Faith and Science I
Faith and Science II
Nature Is God
The Universe and Us
I've discovered that the soul's needs cannot be met through the things that are of this world. In my life, when I realized this and discovered that I had been trying to quench my spiritual thirst with natural things, I realized that was not the way to go. It was then that I opened up to allow Jesus come into my life and be my Lord and Savior. Jesus has come to give us life, and the life He gives is tremendous.
Ok, here it comes. Please let me know what you think of the message. Thank you.
I am anti material and live my life only for the thirst of my quest for knowledge and the search for truth
Faith and Science, Part I and part 2.....check these out and.....
Nature Is God
these are the two biggies and the second from the top
Do you believe that if there ever was a time when there was absolutely nothing, there would be anything now? Can anything come from absolutely nothing?
yes and no....with the current theories and what is known of time in quantum physics it shows time is not linear and nothing can possibly =exist at one time....though because time is not constant that something can exist at the same time...there are some heavy theories out there....
for anything to exist, it either has to be created or be self existant. I believe God is self existant and has created all else. Back in '74, in my search for life's purpose since I knew there had to be more to life than what I had, my eyes were opened to the reality of Jesus Christ. When I invited Him into my life to be my Lord and Savior, I experienced a brand new life which is filled with joy, love, and peace like I never knew existed before
I believe it was created and always existed .....both,...because time is not straight....it is possible.....
ok, The Christian message is that all of mankind has been separated from God spiritually. If left in this condition, everyone would be eternally separated from God. Through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, God makes it possible for anyone who believes in that and trusts Jesus alone, to be reunited with Him. Have you been reunited with God spiritually?
I dont believe its really possible for us to be seperated from god..we are a part of the universe...the only god I know is the universe....making life out of the will of becoming a part of itself...if its possible....but just as possible as any other belief that is founded on faith...I got the RA file to work actually....listening now
the universe and us is another one I wrote...recently....less essay and more poetic
I believe if a spirit exists in a sense then we are connected or not.....but the word spirit can mean so many different things depending on who you talk too...if it even exists....which is still a possibility, unless there is some information Ive missed, which Im sure Id have seen
The Bible is the basis for my belief. I have found it to be totally trustworthy.
Ive read it and find it informational, wise and well written...but what translation do you use..there are so many versions and it wasnt written in english..alot is lost in any translation and it has lost chapters also over the years that have been dropped out
I mainly use the King James version. How would anyone know any chapters have been lost if they don't have the original? There are 10's of thousands of copies of it from the many copies that were made around the 2nd century which are exactly like we have now, except for a few minor puntcuation differences. These do not affect the main teachings of it. We also have letters written by the early disciples which contain references to the Bible.
the hebrew translates differently......
I believe the bible as much as i believe the hercules mythos or any other myth/epic written....its a good morality tale but to base your life on it is to be presumptuos...and Im not presumptuous ever
word games can take you many places..Ive been to them all....
empirical evidence is the proof of a positive, the basis of science fact......you cannot prove a negative.....if that were the case wed be very superstitious as many are.....cant disprove bigfoot with that reasoning....
faith in something does not make it real....there was a time when few believed the earth was round....most thought it as flat...though they had faith in this....the earth was still fround Im sure
You do not believe the recorded accounts of the eyewitnesses who wrote the Bible? Jesus is a real person in history, unlike hercules and myths.
I buy that...but it doesnt make him the son of god anymore than david koresh from texas was.....
I could take your last web page you sent and change it a bit to make it so science is rreal.....yet add a hundred pages with truly empirical evidence to back it up
faith and science do not disagree. Science does not destroy the Bible.
this page is funny....it uses the bible as the source of the fact...its circular...if one believes the bible innacurate how can a passage from the innacuracy be used to defend it if its inaccurate....hehehe
I could write a bible type book and fill it with things to back it....and do the same..but wont make it true.....
PROOF? To all of those who purport that "The Bible is Full of Errors, where's the evidence? Where are the statements, the documents, the artifacts substantiating their claim, where are the volumes of data, the books, the research proving their claim valid?
Did you see this part of it?
once again....proving a negative is impossible.....with this argument I can say any book is reality......even the ones that arent....if we go solely upon the text between the covers.....sure....doesnt make it a valid argument....thats a very weak argument
if there is no land of Israel, then the Bible would be false. If there is nothing that the Bible refers to, then it would be false. Certainly this part of it can be examined and shown to be in error if the errors exist. Is all of history rejected or just the part written about in the Bible?
with those arguments...I could do slight work and come back tommorro with 'proof' that I was a gnome and you would have to agree
I would not have to agree, but I could not reject it without further information. So many people need no reason to reject the Bible.
I dont....I just dont agree with it....anymore than i agree with any book.....alot of philosophy disagrees with each other...I read it and take it in....but cant take it all as fact, cause it disproves each other and such....thats impossible to agree with it all
history exists...as it does in america and dependng what you read of the us and where the information comes from and the year it was done in....the history is different.....writings are a document of history...not history itself...there is millions of pages of falese histroy in just the past decade of the things weve gonew through, not to mention all of human history....
what of history that is lost? does that history not exist nor ever happened?
so you do not believe any part of the historical record?
it depends....I go in with the idea that records of history as easily corrupted....in any history I read of
just as you can't reject that George Washington was our first President. Jesus really lived on this planet and was crucified, died, and rose the third day.
but the fact george supposedly cut down a cherry treee and did his little saying is not fact.....but written as history depending who you ask or where you look
see?
based on everything you tell me then buddhism is just as true as christianity right?
How do you know that? is the fact that this is discovered to be not a true story show you that the truth will come out? So it is with Jesus, He actually lived and taught that He was the only way to God. The people He taught this to believed it so much they gave up their lives instead of rejecting it. why would they do that if they were not totally convinced of it? No one gives up their life unless they believe something strongly.
yes they do...Im a sociology student and can throw hundreds of facts that can proove this the case.....
its easy to happen....especially when people base their all intio a thing it is near impossible to give it up after so much time and effort has been given to it....its why cults are co powerful....cognitive disonance
buddhism is not the way to God, either the Bible is right or it isn't. Jesus says He is the only way to God, so if any other religions teaches otherwise, then they both cannot be right.
so what makes christianity right over buddhism?
it falls into all the criteria youve given for it
The God of the Bible says He made the heavens and the earth, can you know if it is true or not?
Joh:3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Either this statement is true, or it isn't.
yes....because I say the universe exists inside a raindrop of a world of giants....can you prove this or not?
you may be able to use that as a silly half assed argument for most things....but as a thinker I could not possibly base my life on it without giving up everything I know and learned and without just all out stopping my search for truth
of course not, but if I were to tell you that Jesus Christ came into my life, would say it is true or not?
of course jesus came into your life.....why not?
Are you wanting to find the truth you want to find, or are you open to the truth no matter what it is?
no matter what it is...or why would I live my life like this?
it doesnt have to do with what I want...it has to do with truth and seeking it out
using my head and the faculties I was given to the best of my ability....
it has to do with my human potential and such.....
that's all I'm trying to say, Jesus has come into my life and has changed mine so wonderfully. Just as an explorer who went into a place where no one had gone before and came back with information unknown before, the info should not be rejected because it is not what the people did not want to hear.
Have you eliminated the Bible as being the source of the truth?
no...nor any religions books..they all are very wise...as are the philosophers writings and any ancient text and many new books....through the ages there are many many books of truth
do you believe that they all are truth even if they disagree with each other?
they all have truths...if you read them with an open mind.....they are full of morality and concepts.....I love ecclesiastes...great book
but God is portrayed as pure and without error in the Bible. If error is associated with Him, then He cannot be truth. All through the Bible God is raised higher than mere mortal man who is sinful. If His Word shown to have error, He cannot be what He claims to be and the Bible should be thrown out.
thats why i dont believe that part of what the bible says....but its a well written mythos...and those are the reason any book I read is thrown out..they presume or base their findings upon presumptuous and fantastic ideals
would you not expect if God was able to create this planet and the universe that He would not be like us? He would be so much greater than we are and His deeds would be greater than anything we could do.
how are you sure...and your using human nature of baseless beliefs really to found that idea upon....even if god did not exist that would be a popular belief for people to invest into regardless....
Jesus is God and when He walked here on earth, He did miracles which God would have no problem doing. We would expect the Creator to be a whole lot greater than we are. I sure haven't spoken any worlds into existence lately. He walked on the water and raised a person from the dead after 4 days. Fed multitudes with a couple fish and a loaf of bread. Things God is able to do.
supposedly.....but I doubt it......sensationalized....like our news.....
presumptions based on anecdotal information....spurious
if you would take what Jesus says, as recorded in the Bible, and took Him at His word, submitting yourself to Him as an act of faith, in the privacy of your home, asking Him to reveal Himself to you if He was really true, I believe you would find Him to what you are looking for. He loves you so very much and knows all about you. If you would seek Him on a personal basis, He will show you His reality.
reality is subjective you are saying...this is true...Id be a traitor to my search for 'best' and truth if I did so...impossible....unless I had proof...which inherintly does not exist....I have faith in science...it is coroborated with physical evidense and sound theories.......it is far more logical to take that than religion.....unless I was more succeptable to superstition
I have to be going. God loves you so very much and is tugging at your heart now. I've enjoyed our chat, hope we can discuss it more later. bye and God bless you.
and may nature shine on you
we humans are not only a physical creation, but spiritual also. God is spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. But since we all are born with the spirit side of us being void, we are not able to spiritually commune with God. When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, our spirits are born and we become spiritually alive and this opens up a whole new realm that we are not aware of before.
Back to main page
This page best when viewed with the third eye
Im a confirmed lutheran...Ive had years of religious training, but Ive parted from that way and moved towards new thinking, thanks to what I learned though from it all
(These sound files are in Real Audio format and located at these links)
Faith and Science I
Faith and Science II
Nature Is God
The Universe and Us
I've discovered that the soul's needs cannot be met through the things that are of this world. In my life, when I realized this and discovered that I had been trying to quench my spiritual thirst with natural things, I realized that was not the way to go. It was then that I opened up to allow Jesus come into my life and be my Lord and Savior. Jesus has come to give us life, and the life He gives is tremendous.
Ok, here it comes. Please let me know what you think of the message. Thank you.
I am anti material and live my life only for the thirst of my quest for knowledge and the search for truth
Faith and Science, Part I and part 2.....check these out and.....
Nature Is God
these are the two biggies and the second from the top
Do you believe that if there ever was a time when there was absolutely nothing, there would be anything now? Can anything come from absolutely nothing?
yes and no....with the current theories and what is known of time in quantum physics it shows time is not linear and nothing can possibly =exist at one time....though because time is not constant that something can exist at the same time...there are some heavy theories out there....
for anything to exist, it either has to be created or be self existant. I believe God is self existant and has created all else. Back in '74, in my search for life's purpose since I knew there had to be more to life than what I had, my eyes were opened to the reality of Jesus Christ. When I invited Him into my life to be my Lord and Savior, I experienced a brand new life which is filled with joy, love, and peace like I never knew existed before
I believe it was created and always existed .....both,...because time is not straight....it is possible.....
ok, The Christian message is that all of mankind has been separated from God spiritually. If left in this condition, everyone would be eternally separated from God. Through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, God makes it possible for anyone who believes in that and trusts Jesus alone, to be reunited with Him. Have you been reunited with God spiritually?
I dont believe its really possible for us to be seperated from god..we are a part of the universe...the only god I know is the universe....making life out of the will of becoming a part of itself...if its possible....but just as possible as any other belief that is founded on faith...I got the RA file to work actually....listening now
the universe and us is another one I wrote...recently....less essay and more poetic
I believe if a spirit exists in a sense then we are connected or not.....but the word spirit can mean so many different things depending on who you talk too...if it even exists....which is still a possibility, unless there is some information Ive missed, which Im sure Id have seen
The Bible is the basis for my belief. I have found it to be totally trustworthy.
Ive read it and find it informational, wise and well written...but what translation do you use..there are so many versions and it wasnt written in english..alot is lost in any translation and it has lost chapters also over the years that have been dropped out
I mainly use the King James version. How would anyone know any chapters have been lost if they don't have the original? There are 10's of thousands of copies of it from the many copies that were made around the 2nd century which are exactly like we have now, except for a few minor puntcuation differences. These do not affect the main teachings of it. We also have letters written by the early disciples which contain references to the Bible.
the hebrew translates differently......
I believe the bible as much as i believe the hercules mythos or any other myth/epic written....its a good morality tale but to base your life on it is to be presumptuos...and Im not presumptuous ever
word games can take you many places..Ive been to them all....
empirical evidence is the proof of a positive, the basis of science fact......you cannot prove a negative.....if that were the case wed be very superstitious as many are.....cant disprove bigfoot with that reasoning....
faith in something does not make it real....there was a time when few believed the earth was round....most thought it as flat...though they had faith in this....the earth was still fround Im sure
You do not believe the recorded accounts of the eyewitnesses who wrote the Bible? Jesus is a real person in history, unlike hercules and myths.
I buy that...but it doesnt make him the son of god anymore than david koresh from texas was.....
I could take your last web page you sent and change it a bit to make it so science is rreal.....yet add a hundred pages with truly empirical evidence to back it up
faith and science do not disagree. Science does not destroy the Bible.
this page is funny....it uses the bible as the source of the fact...its circular...if one believes the bible innacurate how can a passage from the innacuracy be used to defend it if its inaccurate....hehehe
I could write a bible type book and fill it with things to back it....and do the same..but wont make it true.....
PROOF? To all of those who purport that "The Bible is Full of Errors, where's the evidence? Where are the statements, the documents, the artifacts substantiating their claim, where are the volumes of data, the books, the research proving their claim valid?
Did you see this part of it?
once again....proving a negative is impossible.....with this argument I can say any book is reality......even the ones that arent....if we go solely upon the text between the covers.....sure....doesnt make it a valid argument....thats a very weak argument
if there is no land of Israel, then the Bible would be false. If there is nothing that the Bible refers to, then it would be false. Certainly this part of it can be examined and shown to be in error if the errors exist. Is all of history rejected or just the part written about in the Bible?
with those arguments...I could do slight work and come back tommorro with 'proof' that I was a gnome and you would have to agree
I would not have to agree, but I could not reject it without further information. So many people need no reason to reject the Bible.
I dont....I just dont agree with it....anymore than i agree with any book.....alot of philosophy disagrees with each other...I read it and take it in....but cant take it all as fact, cause it disproves each other and such....thats impossible to agree with it all
history exists...as it does in america and dependng what you read of the us and where the information comes from and the year it was done in....the history is different.....writings are a document of history...not history itself...there is millions of pages of falese histroy in just the past decade of the things weve gonew through, not to mention all of human history....
what of history that is lost? does that history not exist nor ever happened?
so you do not believe any part of the historical record?
it depends....I go in with the idea that records of history as easily corrupted....in any history I read of
just as you can't reject that George Washington was our first President. Jesus really lived on this planet and was crucified, died, and rose the third day.
but the fact george supposedly cut down a cherry treee and did his little saying is not fact.....but written as history depending who you ask or where you look
see?
based on everything you tell me then buddhism is just as true as christianity right?
How do you know that? is the fact that this is discovered to be not a true story show you that the truth will come out? So it is with Jesus, He actually lived and taught that He was the only way to God. The people He taught this to believed it so much they gave up their lives instead of rejecting it. why would they do that if they were not totally convinced of it? No one gives up their life unless they believe something strongly.
yes they do...Im a sociology student and can throw hundreds of facts that can proove this the case.....
its easy to happen....especially when people base their all intio a thing it is near impossible to give it up after so much time and effort has been given to it....its why cults are co powerful....cognitive disonance
buddhism is not the way to God, either the Bible is right or it isn't. Jesus says He is the only way to God, so if any other religions teaches otherwise, then they both cannot be right.
so what makes christianity right over buddhism?
it falls into all the criteria youve given for it
The God of the Bible says He made the heavens and the earth, can you know if it is true or not?
Joh:3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Either this statement is true, or it isn't.
yes....because I say the universe exists inside a raindrop of a world of giants....can you prove this or not?
you may be able to use that as a silly half assed argument for most things....but as a thinker I could not possibly base my life on it without giving up everything I know and learned and without just all out stopping my search for truth
of course not, but if I were to tell you that Jesus Christ came into my life, would say it is true or not?
of course jesus came into your life.....why not?
Are you wanting to find the truth you want to find, or are you open to the truth no matter what it is?
no matter what it is...or why would I live my life like this?
it doesnt have to do with what I want...it has to do with truth and seeking it out
using my head and the faculties I was given to the best of my ability....
it has to do with my human potential and such.....
that's all I'm trying to say, Jesus has come into my life and has changed mine so wonderfully. Just as an explorer who went into a place where no one had gone before and came back with information unknown before, the info should not be rejected because it is not what the people did not want to hear.
Have you eliminated the Bible as being the source of the truth?
no...nor any religions books..they all are very wise...as are the philosophers writings and any ancient text and many new books....through the ages there are many many books of truth
do you believe that they all are truth even if they disagree with each other?
they all have truths...if you read them with an open mind.....they are full of morality and concepts.....I love ecclesiastes...great book
but God is portrayed as pure and without error in the Bible. If error is associated with Him, then He cannot be truth. All through the Bible God is raised higher than mere mortal man who is sinful. If His Word shown to have error, He cannot be what He claims to be and the Bible should be thrown out.
thats why i dont believe that part of what the bible says....but its a well written mythos...and those are the reason any book I read is thrown out..they presume or base their findings upon presumptuous and fantastic ideals
would you not expect if God was able to create this planet and the universe that He would not be like us? He would be so much greater than we are and His deeds would be greater than anything we could do.
how are you sure...and your using human nature of baseless beliefs really to found that idea upon....even if god did not exist that would be a popular belief for people to invest into regardless....
Jesus is God and when He walked here on earth, He did miracles which God would have no problem doing. We would expect the Creator to be a whole lot greater than we are. I sure haven't spoken any worlds into existence lately. He walked on the water and raised a person from the dead after 4 days. Fed multitudes with a couple fish and a loaf of bread. Things God is able to do.
supposedly.....but I doubt it......sensationalized....like our news.....
presumptions based on anecdotal information....spurious
if you would take what Jesus says, as recorded in the Bible, and took Him at His word, submitting yourself to Him as an act of faith, in the privacy of your home, asking Him to reveal Himself to you if He was really true, I believe you would find Him to what you are looking for. He loves you so very much and knows all about you. If you would seek Him on a personal basis, He will show you His reality.
reality is subjective you are saying...this is true...Id be a traitor to my search for 'best' and truth if I did so...impossible....unless I had proof...which inherintly does not exist....I have faith in science...it is coroborated with physical evidense and sound theories.......it is far more logical to take that than religion.....unless I was more succeptable to superstition
I have to be going. God loves you so very much and is tugging at your heart now. I've enjoyed our chat, hope we can discuss it more later. bye and God bless you.
and may nature shine on you
we humans are not only a physical creation, but spiritual also. God is spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. But since we all are born with the spirit side of us being void, we are not able to spiritually commune with God. When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, our spirits are born and we become spiritually alive and this opens up a whole new realm that we are not aware of before.
Back to main page
This page best when viewed with the third eye
Faith and Science II
Nature Is God
The Universe and Us
Ok, here it comes. Please let me know what you think of the message. Thank you.
I am anti material and live my life only for the thirst of my quest for knowledge and the search for truth
Faith and Science, Part I and part 2.....check these out and.....
Nature Is God
these are the two biggies and the second from the top
Do you believe that if there ever was a time when there was absolutely nothing, there would be anything now? Can anything come from absolutely nothing?
yes and no....with the current theories and what is known of time in quantum physics it shows time is not linear and nothing can possibly =exist at one time....though because time is not constant that something can exist at the same time...there are some heavy theories out there....
for anything to exist, it either has to be created or be self existant. I believe God is self existant and has created all else. Back in '74, in my search for life's purpose since I knew there had to be more to life than what I had, my eyes were opened to the reality of Jesus Christ. When I invited Him into my life to be my Lord and Savior, I experienced a brand new life which is filled with joy, love, and peace like I never knew existed before
I believe it was created and always existed .....both,...because time is not straight....it is possible.....
ok, The Christian message is that all of mankind has been separated from God spiritually. If left in this condition, everyone would be eternally separated from God. Through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, God makes it possible for anyone who believes in that and trusts Jesus alone, to be reunited with Him. Have you been reunited with God spiritually?
I dont believe its really possible for us to be seperated from god..we are a part of the universe...the only god I know is the universe....making life out of the will of becoming a part of itself...if its possible....but just as possible as any other belief that is founded on faith...I got the RA file to work actually....listening now
the universe and us is another one I wrote...recently....less essay and more poetic
I believe if a spirit exists in a sense then we are connected or not.....but the word spirit can mean so many different things depending on who you talk too...if it even exists....which is still a possibility, unless there is some information Ive missed, which Im sure Id have seen
The Bible is the basis for my belief. I have found it to be totally trustworthy.
Ive read it and find it informational, wise and well written...but what translation do you use..there are so many versions and it wasnt written in english..alot is lost in any translation and it has lost chapters also over the years that have been dropped out
I mainly use the King James version. How would anyone know any chapters have been lost if they don't have the original? There are 10's of thousands of copies of it from the many copies that were made around the 2nd century which are exactly like we have now, except for a few minor puntcuation differences. These do not affect the main teachings of it. We also have letters written by the early disciples which contain references to the Bible.
the hebrew translates differently......
word games can take you many places..Ive been to them all....
faith in something does not make it real....there was a time when few believed the earth was round....most thought it as flat...though they had faith in this....the earth was still fround Im sure
You do not believe the recorded accounts of the eyewitnesses who wrote the Bible? Jesus is a real person in history, unlike hercules and myths.
I buy that...but it doesnt make him the son of god anymore than david koresh from texas was.....
I could take your last web page you sent and change it a bit to make it so science is rreal.....yet add a hundred pages with truly empirical evidence to back it up
faith and science do not disagree. Science does not destroy the Bible.
this page is funny....it uses the bible as the source of the fact...its circular...if one believes the bible innacurate how can a passage from the innacuracy be used to defend it if its inaccurate....hehehe
PROOF? To all of those who purport that "The Bible is Full of Errors, where's the evidence? Where are the statements, the documents, the artifacts substantiating their claim, where are the volumes of data, the books, the research proving their claim valid?
once again....proving a negative is impossible.....with this argument I can say any book is reality......even the ones that arent....if we go solely upon the text between the covers.....sure....doesnt make it a valid argument....thats a very weak argument
if there is no land of Israel, then the Bible would be false. If there is nothing that the Bible refers to, then it would be false. Certainly this part of it can be examined and shown to be in error if the errors exist. Is all of history rejected or just the part written about in the Bible?
with those arguments...I could do slight work and come back tommorro with 'proof' that I was a gnome and you would have to agree
I would not have to agree, but I could not reject it without further information. So many people need no reason to reject the Bible.
I dont....I just dont agree with it....anymore than i agree with any book.....alot of philosophy disagrees with each other...I read it and take it in....but cant take it all as fact, cause it disproves each other and such....thats impossible to agree with it all
history exists...as it does in america and dependng what you read of the us and where the information comes from and the year it was done in....the history is different.....writings are a document of history...not history itself...there is millions of pages of falese histroy in just the past decade of the things weve gonew through, not to mention all of human history....
so you do not believe any part of the historical record?
it depends....I go in with the idea that records of history as easily corrupted....in any history I read of
just as you can't reject that George Washington was our first President. Jesus really lived on this planet and was crucified, died, and rose the third day.
but the fact george supposedly cut down a cherry treee and did his little saying is not fact.....but written as history depending who you ask or where you look
see?
based on everything you tell me then buddhism is just as true as christianity right?
How do you know that? is the fact that this is discovered to be not a true story show you that the truth will come out? So it is with Jesus, He actually lived and taught that He was the only way to God. The people He taught this to believed it so much they gave up their lives instead of rejecting it. why would they do that if they were not totally convinced of it? No one gives up their life unless they believe something strongly.
yes they do...Im a sociology student and can throw hundreds of facts that can proove this the case.....
buddhism is not the way to God, either the Bible is right or it isn't. Jesus says He is the only way to God, so if any other religions teaches otherwise, then they both cannot be right.
so what makes christianity right over buddhism?
The God of the Bible says He made the heavens and the earth, can you know if it is true or not?
Joh:3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
yes....because I say the universe exists inside a raindrop of a world of giants....can you prove this or not?
you may be able to use that as a silly half assed argument for most things....but as a thinker I could not possibly base my life on it without giving up everything I know and learned and without just all out stopping my search for truth
of course not, but if I were to tell you that Jesus Christ came into my life, would say it is true or not?
of course jesus came into your life.....why not?
Are you wanting to find the truth you want to find, or are you open to the truth no matter what it is?
no matter what it is...or why would I live my life like this?
that's all I'm trying to say, Jesus has come into my life and has changed mine so wonderfully. Just as an explorer who went into a place where no one had gone before and came back with information unknown before, the info should not be rejected because it is not what the people did not want to hear.
Have you eliminated the Bible as being the source of the truth?
no...nor any religions books..they all are very wise...as are the philosophers writings and any ancient text and many new books....through the ages there are many many books of truth
do you believe that they all are truth even if they disagree with each other?
they all have truths...if you read them with an open mind.....they are full of morality and concepts.....I love ecclesiastes...great book
but God is portrayed as pure and without error in the Bible. If error is associated with Him, then He cannot be truth. All through the Bible God is raised higher than mere mortal man who is sinful. If His Word shown to have error, He cannot be what He claims to be and the Bible should be thrown out.
thats why i dont believe that part of what the bible says....but its a well written mythos...and those are the reason any book I read is thrown out..they presume or base their findings upon presumptuous and fantastic ideals
would you not expect if God was able to create this planet and the universe that He would not be like us? He would be so much greater than we are and His deeds would be greater than anything we could do.
how are you sure...and your using human nature of baseless beliefs really to found that idea upon....even if god did not exist that would be a popular belief for people to invest into regardless....
Jesus is God and when He walked here on earth, He did miracles which God would have no problem doing. We would expect the Creator to be a whole lot greater than we are. I sure haven't spoken any worlds into existence lately.
supposedly.....but I doubt it......sensationalized....like our news.....
presumptions based on anecdotal information....spurious
if you would take what Jesus says, as recorded in the Bible, and took Him at His word, submitting yourself to Him as an act of faith, in the privacy of your home, asking Him to reveal Himself to you if He was really true, I believe you would find Him to what you are looking for. He loves you so very much and knows all about you. If you would seek Him on a personal basis, He will show you His reality.
reality is subjective you are saying...this is true...Id be a traitor to my search for 'best' and truth if I did so...impossible....unless I had proof...which inherintly does not exist....I have faith in science...it is coroborated with physical evidense and sound theories.......it is far more logical to take that than religion.....unless I was more succeptable to superstition
I have to be going. God loves you so very much and is tugging at your heart now. I've enjoyed our chat, hope we can discuss it more later. bye and God bless you.
and may nature shine on you
we humans are not only a physical creation, but spiritual also. God is spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. But since we all are born with the spirit side of us being void, we are not able to spiritually commune with God. When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, our spirits are born and we become spiritually alive and this opens up a whole new realm that we are not aware of before.
I believe the bible as much as i believe the hercules mythos or any other myth/epic written....its a good morality tale but to base your life on it is to be presumptuos...and Im not presumptuous ever
empirical evidence is the proof of a positive, the basis of science fact......you cannot prove a negative.....if that were the case wed be very superstitious as many are.....cant disprove bigfoot with that reasoning....
I could write a bible type book and fill it with things to back it....and do the same..but wont make it true.....
Did you see this part of it?
what of history that is lost? does that history not exist nor ever happened?
its easy to happen....especially when people base their all intio a thing it is near impossible to give it up after so much time and effort has been given to it....its why cults are co powerful....cognitive disonance
it falls into all the criteria youve given for it
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Either this statement is true, or it isn't.
it doesnt have to do with what I want...it has to do with truth and seeking it out
using my head and the faculties I was given to the best of my ability....
it has to do with my human potential and such.....
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