Guitarists Amir Derakh & Ryan Shuck blend synth guitar with hypnotic, seven-string grooves to fashion their techno-laden, futuristic pop.
Los Angeles-based Orgy burst onto the modern rock scene late last year with a kinetically-twisted revamp of the New Order classic "Blue Monday." Their music and look was a blazing pastiche of techno-punk, future-goth, and retro-slick glam. Orgy cites Duran Duran and the Cure as major influences (both musically and fashion-wise), and the quintet's music actually defies easy categorization-think of the music that Elroy Jetson would listen to if he was strung out on crystal meth, and you get a pretty good idea of where Orgy are coming from--thanks in no part to the dueling guitar theatrics of Ryan Shuck and Amir Derakh. The songs on their debut album, Candyass, are filled with piercing shards of screaming blue noize and undulating bursts of fuzzed-out craziness; sounds that seem to transcend and defy the traditional range of the guitar. Suffice it to say that the sounds they coax from their gear are unlike anything else dwelling on the current popular music sound-scape.
What sets these two axe-wielders apart from the rest of the alt-rock crowd are their instruments of choice: Ryan strums a customized Ibanez RG series seven-string, while Amir grinds away on a bevy of guitar synthesizers. What's more, both Ryan and Amir have led other successful careers outside of music. Ryan was a hairdresser prior to the Orgy onslaught, and Amir not only holds a degree in audio engineering (he engineered and mixed Coal Chamber's debut among other things) but was also the screaming guitarist in the short-lived but über-popular L.A. metal band Rough Cutt.
While the band's music ultimately speaks for itself--the 11 other songs on their album sound nothing like "Blue Monday"--one cannot deny that they were rather astute in their choice of cover songs. Taking a song by one of pop's beloved sonic icons and then hemorrhaging it into a swelling mass of rage-filled, electro-angst was a stroke of pure brilliance. Of course, the fact that Orgy are the first band to emerge on Korn's Elemetree imprint hasn't hurt the band one bit, either. Yet despite (or perhaps in spite of) the initial success os "Blue Monday," the band has refused to rest on its collective laurels and has instead spent the better part of a year on the road, first as part of Korn's Family Values tour, then on stints both solo and with Love & Rockets. GuitarOne managed to catch up with Ryan and Amir during the Ohio leg of their Campus Invasion Tour.
Let's talk about your choice of instruments. Both of you play rather unorthadox guitars. Ryan, you favor a seven-string. What led you in this direction, as opposed to that of the more traditional six-string guitar?
Ryan Shuck: Well, it kind of looked a little different when I first got one. It looked like I could say, do more with it--though I wasn't really sure if I could or not. but when I bought it a couple of years ago, I ended up writing a little differently than I would on a six-string. When you've got an extra string, you tend to try and do things that you couldn't do, or wouldn't think of doing, with a six-string. And it allows you to tune lower easier. Now, I can't imagine going back to a six-string. Amir plays a six-string, and I think he does amazing stuff, so I don't really favor it, but for me it's just become my instrument.
You mainly play Ibanez guitars--specifically, the Universe--and I understand you have a customized RG. What is the difference between the two?
Ryan: Well actually, they don't make the Universe anymore, so my RG is a combination of the old Universe and teh RG. I have them make a different nexkl it's a little thinner and ore comfortable for hand. I also have a custom-wound pickups, and I have the jack put in a little differently because there's a way that I play where the jacks tend to get pulled out. So I just have them customize it for playing live.
Prior to having Ibanez do all the custom work, did you just tinker around with your Universe, rebuilding it and modifying it to your liking?
Ryan: I have one of the first Universes to ever be made. I got it way before the seven-string craze that's going on now. So back then, they made them really, really cool, and they were really, really expensive. That's why no one ever got 'em. So I sort of hjave them modeled after that first guitar. There are things you wish were here but that you couldn't really do without a custom shop, so now I have that option, which is kind of cool.
And Amir, why guitar synths?
Amir Derakh: I started playing around with them when I was in Ruff Cut, and I started collecting them after that. But I never actually got to experiment with them--I did use them on the second Rough Cutt record, but back then people thought it wasn't really cool to use synthesizers, especially guitar synths. I remember Judas Priest being one of the first rock bands to use guitar synths, and they really got slagged for it. I loved it, personally. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I mean all the jazz gys were experimenting with it: Allan Holdsworth, Al Di Meola, Pat Metheny, John McLaughlan. Allan Holdsworth was a huge influence on me. There are a lot of jazz guitar players I grew up listening to. And a lot of them have been using guitar synths for years, but nobody ever really did anything with it. Jan Hammer, to me, was one of the greatest guys with the Moog because he used to play it through a guitar amp. I used to think that was the coolest thing, 'cause it sounded more like a guitar that way. So I've always sort of been dicking aronud with playing guitar synthesizer more like it's a guitar through my amp. It just never fit i with any of the other bands I've been in. When Jay [Gordon, Orgy's singer], who I've known for a long time and have played with in bands before, approached me about Orgy, I said "Well, if I'm gonna do this, I need to do something different because I've already done all the guitar stuff. I can play solos, I've done the metal thing, the blues thing, and the pop thing. I've got to do something different." That's when I told them that I'd wanted to use guitar synths so I could be almost more like a keyboard player, but a guitar player, as well. I don't think they really knew exactly what I had in store for them, but they were down with the idea. Anyway, to make a long story endless, that's how it came about.
You mentioned a lot of other musicians who play guitar synths. How does your playing differ from theirs?
Amir: Most people play them in a very normal way. They plug them in, and they sound like a shitty synthesizer that doesn't work very well. I wanted to change that. The way that I run my stuff adn the way that I mix it, it sounds really good. And it's not just the sounds that are in the box. I twist and distort them; I do all these different things. I have a combination of how I run it through an amp and run direct, and there's all these weird pedals and things that I have configured that I can switched with the touch of a button that allow me to make sonuds out of these things that they were never really designed to make. I mean, they sound way better than if you just plugged them into a board and started playing like a piano on it. That's lame. Most of these things sell, like the GR-30, because people want to play piano or keyboards with their guitar and they play in a nightclub or whatever. I mean that's cool, but that's not groundbreaking. That's boring to me. I want to take that piano sound and destroy it, make it into a new sound.
The Parker Fly setup that you use is pretty unique.
Amir: Actually, all the guitars that I use are pretty unique. The Parker Fly has a lot of really cool things about it. I have the synth pickup mounted on it. Actually, they're supposed to be making some soon where the pickups will be built-in for me. My other guitars all have the pickups built in. That's the only real disadvantage to the Parker Fly. The advantages are that it has some interesting pickups to it, you can play direct out of it. It has pickups in the bridge, so it almost sounds like an acoustic if you want it to, which a lot of times I use in the studio. So far, I haven't really used it too much live yet, but I want to. It's a very light guitar which I like. I hate heavy guitars. It's weird looking, too, and I want to play weird looking guitars in this band. The custom Jacksons that I have are one-of-a-kind; nobody's got one. I've got the only two ever made. It's called the Roswell Star. They have the synth built-in and they have a real "Star Trek" looking design that I came up with. Jackson had made a Roswell V, and I just sort of modified it into something new. And then the other guitars that I use are old Roland guiats, which some people use, but nobody really uses them with the synth anymore. Nobody thinks those things are any good, whjich always blows my mind. I'm sure that there are some people out there who use them, but I don't think anybody's used them to the desgree that I do. I have everything from their newest to their oldest, but on stage what I use is the 700--which came out in the '80s--and the new one, the GR-30.
How do the two of you divide up the guitar parts? I mean, your music doesn't really adhere to traditional rock 'n' roll aesthetic of "lead" and "rhythm" guitars.
Ryan: Totally. There is no lead or rhyth. There are no rules like that in the band. We've never really talked about it, either. Who plays what part really depends on who writes it and whose guitar makes the sound correctly. I think we write too many parts, and we kind of dole 'em out later. Sometimes it seems like whoever can combine the parts together liev and make that part work is the one who plays it. And soemtimes that's Paige a lot of times, you know, the bass guitar. A lot of people mistake the bass guitar. A lot of people mistake a lot of his stuff for guitar work. We're just that type of band where whoever can make the sound correctly does it.
Amir: And just the fact that Ryan is playing a seven-string and I play the six-string with a guitar synthesizer helps to divide our sounds. I mean, both os uf tune totally differently. We both to A#, but he's doing it on a seven-string, and I'm doing it on six-string, so the guitars are set up completely different. There are no rules to anythign. When it comes to doing it live, everybody just gets parts. Sometimes we'll play a part on a keyboard in the studio, and when it comes to ding it live, whoever can make the sound closest basically will do it. There are plenty of guitar parts that people think are keyboard parts. It changes with every song, too. Sometimes we create stuff in the studio, and anybody could have played it--Paige, Jay. Our drummer, Bobby, doesn't play too much guitar stuff, but we just got him a guitar, so you never know. Anybody could play a part, and a lot of times we switch off. We don't really care about that. When it comes to playing live, we just want it to sound good.
It sounds like Orgy is a very loose, free-for-all collaborative effort
Ryan: Totally. I mean, Jay writes parts, and we end up having to combine two parts to make it happen live. Amir's guitar is capable of putting a lot of soudns into one. He can split the guitar and synthesizer and everything off of his guitar, so he can play a part while it's kind of like playing two parts.
Effects and guitar synth often get maligned by guitar purists. The fact that you both employ them extensively in orgy is something of a rarity these days. Do you see yourselves as hiding your guitar behind all the synthesized and digitized fuzz? Or do you see it as more of an evolution of the guitar sound?
Ryan: Definite evolution. I'm sick of guitar. I want to make it sound like something different, but I don't want to make it sound like another unstrument. I want to make it sound like one that's not out yet. I think that the more I can fuck with the way the guitar sounds, the better.
Amir: It's just another tool. The other thing that's complete contradiction about ourselves is that even though we're doing all these complicated things, we want to look just like a rock band, and we want to play just like a rock band. We don't want to play to click tracks or tapes or anything, so we use drums that allow us to play different drum sounds for every sond, but be able to do it live. It's the same with my guitar synths. I mean, after all, I still just play a guitar. But the thing is I've got a zillion buttons and knobs where I can go off into this whole other realm. I can play guitar, and a lot of times I've just playing a straight rhythm or a straight guitar sound. I like having that option because there's a certain heaviness or metalness, whatever you want to call it, that you can get out of that, that you can't get out a keyboard, no matter how distorted you make it. There's a sound to the electric guitar that we like. But even with that, we still twist it and make it sound different because we can't just have a guitar tone that sounds like anybody else's.
Basically you've said to hell with the purists, then.
Ryan: Yeah, we're kind of like "fuck the purists." Have fun, that's what music's for. Experiment. That's what pedals are for. That's what life's about. I mean, you can only do so many things with a distorted guitar. You've got to add to it.
What kind of sound were you striving for with Candyass?
Ryan: Well, we weren't actually striving for a specific sound; we knew what we didn't want to sound like, which was, "If it sounds familiar, throw it out!"
Given all the "toys" you employ, would you consider yourselves to be techno geeks?
Amir: I guess to some degree. You kind of have to be. If you didn't know what you were doing with this shit, I don't see hwo you'd be able to do it. You've really got to think beyond the gear. All the gear that we have, we've found the limitations, and then we've got to figure out a way to make it do what we want by adding this to that or whatever.
Candyass was recorded in a cabin in Lake Tahoe. Why did you decide to escape from L.A. and head to the Sierras to make the album?
Ryan: The reason we got out of L.A. is because there are just too many bands there, and all of them seemed to be recording their records at the same time we decided to record ours. We wanted to get out, beacuse we didn'tw ant to be influenced or have anyone be influenced by us. So we got out quick, and we got our record almost done by the time that a lot of other bands got finished writing their records. What happens in L.A. is that you know everyone, and everyone goes to each other's studios and hangs out. And we just didn't want to even hear anyone else's stuff, and we didn't want anyone to hear ours.
Amir: We found a cabin that was big enough to accommodate what we wanted to set up, the price was right, and it was close enough that we could drive there. That was really it. We had all the gear--between our producer, the gear we had ourselves, and the gear we rented--and we just dragged it all up there with us. I mean it was pretty crazy, realloy. It was kind of a wacky idea, but it worked out. It was so out there that when I thought about it I was like, "We;ve got to do it just so we can say we did it. Any if we can pull this off, then we're gonna look like gniuses." In reality, we just did it because it sounded so crazy.
You've both had other careers prior to forming Orgy. Ryan, I understand that you were a hairdresser. How has that affected your career in Orgy?
Ryan: Of course, it totally helps me out with my understanding of image and photo shoots because I did all of that before I was in the band. I used to style photo shoots, plus I've modeled before. When the band needs a new look, I do everyone's hair, so it kind of helps.
Ryan, you once said something to the effect of "We're not allowed to look like normal people in this band." Does this also mean that you're not allowed to play like normal musicians?
Ryan: We're interested in our loko and the music-- they're one and the same, there's no line. It's a whole lifestyle, this whole band. It's all-encompassing, so of course we're very interested in our look and the music and everything.
Then I guess my question should be, "Do you try to play like you look, or do you try to look like you play?"
Ryan: Ummm, it's influenced by both. That's the thing with this band. It's not like...we're influenced by so much more than just music. We're influenced by movies, by ideas and new technology, we're influenced by art, we're influenced by fashion. SO I think that it's not just that music that influences how we look, it goes both ways.
You've been quoted as saying that orgy is musicall influenced by fashion. What's ironic about that quote is that fashion is influenced by music.
Ryan: Absoluely. It's a big circle. When you see a look, say when you see a movie, it gives you a vibe, it gives you a feeling. Like when you see a really rad science fiction movie, it kind of puts you in a different mindframe for a few days, kind of a different mindset. So that's kind of what we mean. The thing is that we don't differentiate fantasy from real life very often. We just take it and roll with it; there's like a new feeling just coming out. I'd say that Star Wars in general was a bigger influence of me than any rock musician or rock guitarist.
Just for the vibe and the mood?
Ryan: Yeah. That's hwo it influences you. It's not like you watch a movie, and you hear a guitar part pop in your head because of the movie. It's that you walk away with this new feeling, and you've got all these new ideas. The thing is that it's all artistic, and we don't draw lines saying, "We're just musicians." We do everything. It's just art. The same way that you listen to good music while you're painting a picture.
So to make a reall brash generalization, pop culture is your muse.
Ryan: Totally. I'd say science fiction and the future would be more accurate. We're not as interested in fads as we are in futurism and that whole vibe.
On the subject of style and music, you guys are often quoted as being huge Duran Duran fans.
Ryan: That's one of our favorite bands. I mean, we like their music definently. ut there's something rad about the way that team of people came together. They were all extremely stylish. It was just such a heavy look, and it just ruled, you know? For like a 10-year period, they just conquered. And actually, they were all great musicians. That's what was so rad about it. They were teen idols, they had this bigger-than-life image, and they were great musicians.
That's what's really awesome. I think the thing with us, which is kind of cool, is that we're more on an underground level. Even though it's definently getting a little bigger than i thoguht it would get, our music heavier, so i think people take it a little more seriously. Whereas with Duran Duran, a lot of people looked at it as a fad. But there definently is everything from Gary Numan to Sisters of Mercy in our music. It's just like all of those influences that everyone has quoted from us, that's all thrown into a big melting pot. It's just parts of what we are.
It's funny, I was reading a review of us the other day, and they were talking about "for all their talk of Depeche Mode and Duran Duran, these guys seem more like a hardcore band onstage." It made me laugh because I thought, "Wow! All of these people have forgotten one thing. They're trying so hard to say who we're like that they forget that what we're more interested in doing is something new." I mean, there are too many influences. Every band has a million influences, and sometimes I think it gets our of hand when peoepl try to compare, like, "They're into Depeche Mode, and they like Duran Duran, but they also like Sisters of Mercy." Then, when they come to see us live, we scare 'em because it's heavy, and a lot of those bands weren't like that. We're looking at the future.
And Amir, how have you applied your degree in audio engineering into the whole Orgy experience?
Amir: Actually, Jay and I both are engineers, producers, mixers, whatever you want to call it. Obviously with our band, I personally don't like to do too much of that kind of stuff because with a lot fo the bands I was part of in the past, I always ended up being the guy who recorded the demos, and after awhile I started hating it. But I love doing it for other bands, because it's easier when you're not in the band.
But when I got in orgy, it was just like the way we do everything: Everybody just kind of pitches in and does things. You know, a lot of times we'll be in the studio, and we'll hire an engineer, somebody to work on our record, because we don't want to be stuck doing it all; we want to be creative. But a lot of times, the engineer's asleep or we work at all different hours of the day and night, and if someone's not around, I'll get in there, mic it, and set it up. But I like working with othe rpeople. For me, it's like a paid learning experience if I can steal ideas from other guys. That's killer. I get to learn off of them, too. It's like a free lesson on how somebody else, I learn something. At the same time, I can get in there and say "Look, I think this should be like this." Whoever we work with knows that we know what's going on so they're not afraid to let us go in there and touch some knobs if we want to.
Amir, care to comment on your tenure in Rough Cutt? What, if anything, did you bring from that experience into the Orgy fold?
Amir: I've always tried to change in any band that I've ever been in. I think that's why I've been able to do this as long as I have--because you've got to be able to come to the table with something new. Obviously, if you're someone like Steve Ray Vaughan who plays the blues, you play the blues. When you do it that good, you don't need to do anything else. I've always been into doing different things. In some ways, I'd say that I've brought nothing along from Rough Cutt.
But probably one of the biggest things I've brought from that is my experience: I know a lot about the music business even outside of the music itself because I've been doing this probably longer than anybody in the band. Musically, I guess there are some things, because even back then I was very multifaceted in what I was doing. I had very eclectic tastes. I mean, back when I was in Rough Cutt, probably one of my favorite bands was Dead or Alive, and people used to slaf me for it. If you look back at the way I looked in that band, I never really fit in. I was more influenced by the gothic punk scene in my image because I listened to a lot of that music, and that music really had nohing to do with what I was doing in that band. I think, if anything, I've gotten to bring out more of those influences in Orgy. The stuff I did in Rough Cutt I loev and I'm very proud of, it's just a different thing. I loved all that stuff. I mean, people who are Rough Cutt fans still come see Orgy. It was weird because Rough Cutt never really blew up in a big commercial way, so it's always sort of had this little bit of cool factor to it. And even though there were some really cheesy things about the band, there were actually some really cool things that we did, too.
How do the high-heeled boots that you guys wear affect your playing?
Ryan: [Laughs.] They don't. It just makes it hard soemtimes to get used to stepping on the effects pedals and buttons. We wore them before we were in the band togeher, and it's just like you get used to using them. Whn you rehearse for a tour and you're wearing them while you're playing, you don't really thing about it, you just do it.
What about the make-up or fingernail polish?
Amir: Well no, the make-up doesn't and the fingernail polish doesn't either. The only problem I have is with my index finger on my right hand, my picking hand. We do a lot of down picking, and when we get out on the road for months at a time, playing every night, my nail wears off. So what I've had to learn to do is tape my finger with medical tape so that every night i just wears the tape off. It kind of sucks because I've had to learn how to play holding the pick with tape on my finge, and sometiems the tape gets caught in the strings and fucks me up, or the pick will fall out of my hand or get stuck to the tape. I have to do it though, because to ply the way I like to play, I'll lose my nail polish otherwise. Actually, the nail polish helps becasue if I put enough of it on, it actually gives me another layer of protection.
And now for the really big question: How does it feel to be the fledging band on Korn's Elementree label?
Ryan: For us it means everything. It's an honor. Those guys are really good friends of ours and also definently as influence on us, as well. I think for them to sign a band like us was ballsy. I think it was cool. They definently have a sight on the future. They didn't just sign a band that sounded like them. They demonstrated in front of everyone that they're into other kinds of music. And they've supported us from the day they signed us. They're behind us 100%. Hopefully it will change the way labels work when they see the success of Elementree. One of the reasons that the label has been successful is that they gave us the chance to do what we wanted to do.
Speaking of getting the change to do what you wanted to do, with the sonds on Candyass, you guys have managerd to strike a balance between being poppy and heavy. Is this a conscious decision on your parts?
Ryan: Definently. It's getting close to the millennium, and it's time to shake thjings up in a major way. It's time to not be afraid to be pop and also not to be afraid to be heavy. It's time to lose all the restrictions that a lot of bands have had in the past. I think bands are gonna continue to defy description, and I hope we start that movement.
Article by Spencer Abbot