Calling from a studio rehearsal before she starts out on Lilith Fair '98, Amy Ray takes some time out of one of her very busy days to speak to the Lesbian News about politics, music, and Lilith.
LN: I was reading a few weeks ago that you offered to do some high school shows in the South but they did not go as well as you planned. Three out of five were canceled. Were you and Emily surprised at the response you had?
AR: Yeah. Because what happened is we decided to go as an experiment, to play five high school shows during the day with 30 minute shows and 30 minute question and answer periods to just talk about music and the arts and how to get involved in music and support kids who are trying to get something going with their own creativity. It wasn't tied to anything political. It was strictly, well I guess everything is political, but it was strictly to do with the arts so to do that we had to pass a lot of obvious scrutiny from school boards to begin with who read our lyrics and discussed whether or not we were appropriate. They all thought we were and then three out of the five shows were canceled. It was kind of a domino effect, as soon as one person started questioning it, some other schools and parents, it was a minority of parents that called in and created this whole crazy scenario, but in the end the studenst made a good thing out of a bad thing. They really responded. They staged walk outs and protests and we held alternate shows after school for all ages with preferences given to high school students. People showed up and it was a very positive experience. It was a good reminder that there is still a lot of work to be done. As soon as you think you are in a comfort zone, you realize that things still nedd to be worked on and you still need to speak out.
LN: The two shows that did occur at the high schools--how did those go?
AR: They were great. Kids were totally into it and those that asked questions, we had a really good dialog and it was really fun.
LN: What is it like touring outside the US?
AR: We used to tour a lot more outside the US but this year we'll only be doing Canadian dates but no UK, Europe, or East Asia. We love touring outside the US but we have very small cult followings and for those reasons it's a completely different experience but its really rich because you could easily play in small places. It takes you back to your beginning of your time here. It's cool. It's not something that we feel we want to develop a massive career in the world. It's a lot of ground to cover. I think we just feel like we want to play places and enjoy music for what it is and not be over-ambitious and conquer the whole world. It's a little unrealistic for us.
LN: Do you have a favorite place you like to tour in or outside the US?
AR: (laughs) That's a hard one. We really love everywhere. This year the place that stood out for us pretty well was the northwest of the US. We've been playing the northwest for a long time, even early on in our career for at least 10 years. There was something about it this year that was very animated for us in the northwest, there was a obvious energy and that was great. We also went to Australia this year and we had a blast.
LN: Both of you are deeply involved in so many political and social causes. The internet is inundated with information about the causes you champion. Is there a particular cause that is especially near and dear to your heart?
AR: Everything we're involved with is very significant to us. Nothing takes precedence over anything else but they all exist under an umbrella or a basic approach. I think if you look at sexism, homophobia, racism, intolerance, and environmental devastation, I believe all those things are tied together. I believe the connections are pretty obvious. The world is becoming based on this idea of "neorevolutionism" and global economy, where everything becomes money and profit motivated. And corporations, transnational corporations, have more power than the government and the government being the people. There's not the same sense of community anymore, and the differences being the diversity being our strength. It's much more homogenized. I think when the corporations have so much control a lot of disenfranchisement happens very naturally, as well as environmental disasters and racism. To me these connections are so obvious that I try to work on a lot of different perspectives. What I consider to be the same issue, which is fighting the corporate structure in general, and trying to retain some sense of community and sense of statehood that's not based on money but on people.
LN: Have you thought of putting together a documentary more focused on all your causes and social issues?
AR: We did this project called Honor the Earth, which is an environmental activist coalition of indigenous people, that we grant money to people doing environmental activism. We do a tour that usually lasts about a month-- we go into different areas and focus on regional environmental concerns within Indian communities and we documented the last tour we did pretty fully. We are going to release at some point that documentary. It won't be focused on us. It will be focusing on very specific issues. That's the closest we've gotten. We really try to take the focus away from us and put it on the issues or what people need to be aware of rather than making it some rock stars blindly leading people into something that they know nothing about because we all have to learn. The way we can learn is by having it brought to our attention and then by listening to what the people say in the communities themselves, rather than trying to speak for them.
LN: Let's talk about your current album, Shaming of the Sun, one of the most progressive albums you've produced to date. Do you agree?
AR: In the past we have pretty much co-produced all along but not to the degree that we did with this one. Emily and I both wanted to be in charge of this. We wanted to work with someone who's willing to let us be in charge and give us their input but we wanted to feel the bulk of the responsibility. It's hard. Honestly, we loved the people that we worked with in the past. I've missed them sometimes, but it's intense especially at the end of the day when you are tired. And it's your responsibility. You have to work on it more. That was something to get used to when you felt kind of tired of listening to something. You couldin't turn around to your producer and say, "will you listen to this for a while? I want to take a break!" (laughs) Emily and I started depending on each other more, which is good for us for giving each other breaks. It probably has been one of the best processes we've been through in a while with our relationship, our musical relationship, how to work with each other. It really forced us to be in the same room together after being off for a long time. We hadn't seen much of each other in a year. It was good. It really built us back up. It got us used to working with each other again. For the next record we may decide to have a producer and co-produce with someone who's really in charge.
LN: Do you have any favorite tracks off this album?
AR: hmmmm...
LN: Well how about if I ask you about one of my favorite tracks, Don't Give that Girl a Gun"?
AR: It's sort of a break-up song basically. But I always, obviously, was tipping my hat to the gun control movement too! (laughs) I like to do that, mix up my personal songs about personal life with political issues. They're metaphors a lot of times for each other. It's this idea of two people that both maybe treated a love with less respect than they should have--you are kind of hoping for a repair but you know there's not going to be one--that's what it's about. It's not about a one-sided "you did me wrong" or "I did you wrong". It's more of this idea of love you should respect. Whether you stay together or not you should be respectful of it. That's what I was thinking about when I wrote it.
LN: Will you be playing a lot of songs from SotS at Lilith or will you be mixing up your set for each show?
AR: There will probably be a few songs that we tend to play a lot, but for the most part it will be a different set every night, and we'll probably rotates songs in and out. It's hard. It's a pretty short set.
LN: Are you excited to do Lilith again?
AR: Yeah! We love Lilith.
LN: What were some of your faorite moments from last year's tour?
AR: hmmmm....my favorite moments musically were when we participated with everybody else and had other people play with us and we played with other people. We jammed in the dressing rooms. There was also the press conferences at every show last year. At each press conference they would give a check from that day's show where $1 from each ticket went to that organization. That was amazing. It made you feel like there was something good going on that was more than the music.
LN: Everytime I've spoken with Sarah McLachlan or attended her press conferences, I have to say that she has always mentioned and thanked the Indigo Girls for giving Lilith that summer camp feel. What's your secret?
AR: The thing is anytime you are dealing with a festival tour, if it's a similar group of people traveling from one place to another, at some point everybody is going to get kind of sick of playing their own thing and they're going to want to play with other people. To me it's a natural evolution. You're with about fifty other incredible musicians and at some point it's going to occur to you that you ought to be using them and you ought to be sharing something. There's no big secret to it. To me it's just a matter of doing it. A lot of people feel precious on having their set being very isolated and choreographed and they don't feel comfortable bringing other things into it, and that's cool. That's their prerogative. I think the secret is to be willing to let your defensives down a little bit and to take a chance to know that some night may not go so well. They may not be perfect, but the audience likes it. It gets old to see people play things over and over again. Now that's the way I feel about it. Other people don't agree with me.
LN: Wasn't it true that in the first week of Lilith last year you and Emily went around pounding on people's doors to get people together?
AR: You have to ask people to do things. Our thing was that we have different songs that we thought this person or that person would sound good on. We would just go ask them. The secret is to just do it. They would either say yes or no. It's easy to get people to play during our set. The trick is, are other people going to let us play during their sets? It's always our set where we're doing the jamming. I'd like to see other people jam during their set. Sarah did have everybody up during the end of her set, which is totally cool, and Shawn Colvin did a song with two other people. It was really starting to loosen up and cross polinate--that's the stuff. That's what makes it worth it. If it's just a bunch of people playing one set after another, to me there's nothing that special about it.
LN: One of your best shows I've seen was your recent LA show where you had many guest artists (Vonda Shepard, Jackson Browne, Michelle Malone, Kristin Hall, Ani DiFranco, etc) come on stage and jam with you.
AR: It probably was a little overboard but it was a lot of fun!
LN: How did that come about?
AR: Some people just come to see us. There would be friends of ours who showed up backstage and we would be like, "you want to play tonight?" It ended up being all these people we knew on the guest list. We just found them and said, "let's do this, let's do that"--there was a very small amount of prep time. We probably only went through each song one time. We would be sitting there with Matthew Sweet, then Kristin Hall would walk in the room, then Jackson Browne came in...It just built backstage. You have to have time beforehand and write lyrics out, it's a little rushed. It's very fun. Some people think we shouldn't do that because it messes with the momentum of the show and it's not very professional. We just don't feel like that.
LN: What are your plans after Lilith?
AR: We will do the Michigan Women's Music Festival, Newport Folk Festival, and a benefit for the Gay and Lesbian Task Force and a benefit for a migrant farmers organization in the south called FLOC and another Zapatista benefit. Then we'll end the year with an East Coast rock club tour called the "Rolling ThunderPussy Revue" which is going to be a bunch of women from different bands all playing together, doing each other's songs, but playing ensemble.