Serial Joe may be young, but they play dark, hard, moody alterna-rock with style and passion far beyond their years. Their new album, ).Face Down)., is a major step forward from last year's debut, Kicked. We spoke with all four members - singer Ryan Dennis, bassist Jon Davidson, guitarist "Stever" (Ryan Stever) and drummer Dan Stadnicki - over dinner recently. One word of advice: Don't judge before you listen (that's where the word "prejudice" comes from).

NEW VIDEO, NEW LABEL

The "Mistake" video was added to MuchMusic in heavy rotation as soon as it was released.

Ryan: That's cool! We're really excited about that. We did the shoot in Toronto, around Queen Street, and then at [video production company] Black Walk. Pretty much all around Toronto. Took two days, it was a long shoot but it was really fun.

Jon: We worked really hard.

Stever: We worked really hard, 'cause we only had a couple of days to do it, but we're happy with how it turned out.

Ryan: I can't think of a band like us right now. We're the first young band, really, that's not just pop. We play some really heavy songs, alternative and stuff like that. I think we have a good balance.

"Mistake" sounds like a relationship that didn't work out - maybe because there's a third person in the picture.

Ryan: Yeah, that's kind of what the video's like, too. The video intertwines with a lot of the lyrics in the song.

Most bands start out just for fun. It seems like you guys are getting more serious about what you're doing now.

Ryan: Yeah, we're taking it a lot more seriously. We're starting to learn how the business works. I don't think anybody can fully understand it, but we're starting to get more of a grip on it, learning how everything works.

Singing with Aquarius is old news now, but-

Ryan: -It's still big news to us!

Nobody's really asked you much about that yet. How did that happen? You guys seem pretty determined to remain independent.

Ryan: Terry Flood had come to our shows when we were just starting out, a year-and-a-half ago. He saw something, some promise in us. He stuck around, and we kept in contact with him. He got involved, and Aquarius came out to see us a couple of times, and it kind of led into this. But one of the main reasons we looked at Aquarius was because they're not a huge label, so we're on their priority list. They're actually looking at us and saying, "Let's work really hard on these guys." That's what we like about them: They still have that independent feel. It's not like they're a big corporate thing and we're just a number. We know them and we've hung out with them.

Is there any pre-EdgeFest touring going on?

Ryan: We're focusing heavily on EdgeFest. But we're doing a ton of dates opening for Edwin on the way back from EdgeFest. Gonna be a looong July. And a good one.

Stever: But we're going out to Vancouver first, and we're playing an opening slot for an Edwin show. We have a lot of good shows now, so we're rehearsing a lot and trying to get everything down pat.

WRITING AND RECORDING FACE DOWN

Tell us about the recording process for the new album. Apparently, it was done in 13 days during spring break from school.

Ryan: We did the recording at Metalworks in Toronto - we did a week solid, 12 hours a day, and used all the time we had. The last night, we finished at about five in the morning. Then we went out to Vancouver for mixing. It was done in a short time, but it was a lot of fun.

What was it like working with producer (and Skinny Puppy founder) Dave "Rave" Ogilvie?

Ryan: He was really involved. He wasn't just, like, "Only what I say matters." He listened to what we had to say. If he agreed with it, he'd say "Yeah, that's a great idea." If he didn't, then we'd talk about it, work it out and come up with something. He had a large role in the final sound and how it all came out.

"Shallow" seems to be about someone who's gone so far down a bad road that they're unreachable. Maybe addiction, or someone who's dying.

Ryan: That's one of our heaviest songs. It's kind of about somebody who's just so far gone and frustrated. Who doesn't really know what to do and is kind of confused at the same time. Somebody who's so far gone into a bad situation. Anybody in turmoil at a bad time.

Dan: Getting over someone's death.

Your lyrics are really open-ended; not overly specific. They apply to a lot of situations.

Ryan: I've always liked those kinds of songs where you've got to put some actual thought into it. You can put your own thing on it, instead of it already being set in stone. Our CD has all kinds'a different stuff. These songs were all written at different times, about different feelings.

"Push" seems to be on a positive tip.

Ryan: It's kind of about getting out of depression. It's open-ended, so you can think how you want about it, but it's kind of about gaining some self-confidence.

How about the inclusion of an instrumental, "Dragging On My Shoulder"?

Ryan: We had one on our last CD as well. Some people said "Why?" But we just said, "Why not do it?" If it's fun, a song with some energy in it… It's not like every song's gotta have lyrics. Maybe somebody's just gonna enjoy that song for the music.

There are only a few quiet moments on the album, but those sound like you're using synthesizers.

All four: It's all guitar! All guitar!

Jon: Dave introduced that to us: Cool guitar effects.

Ryan: We had so many choices, so we experimented for a long time. Every once in awhile, we'd just fool around with some guitar effects - he had, like, a little portable processor thing.

Stever: He pulled out a big box with about 800 effects on it, and I was just going crazy.

Ryan: It doesn't seem like every song is just guitar, bass and drums. People may think it's something else - which is kinda cool.

Jon: "Push" is, like, our first effects song. The first song that had effects in it. It sounded really good, so we'll probably use some more in the future.

Well, now you've got to carry that 800-effects box on the road! [Laughs]

Stever: Yeah, but it's $800, though… [Laughs] A little too much money.

Outside of those few quiet spots, it's a pretty relentless record.

Ryan: Lots of energy. I don't think people expect us to know what to do. Like, "They don't know what they're writing about."

Jon: "What are they so angry about?" But you can be angry at anything.

Ryan: That's the way we write our music; it's fun to us. It's not like we hate the world, it's just the way we like our music to sound.

Not that it's so angry all the time, more that it's loud, high energy music from beginning to end, with no let-up.

Ryan: I always loved putting a new album into my CD player and getting that feeling that the band is really into the music, know what they're doing, just pounding away. I always liked that sound.

Jon: Quieter songs are nice, if you wanna relax. But we wanted to have a CD that would get you off your feet and keep you there.

Stever: And a lot of songs that you can play live and get people going crazy.

Ryan: Yeah, it's not like there's a couple of hard rock songs and the rest is, like, falling asleep. We really tried to keep the same energy levels going through the whole thing.

You seem to balance hip-hop and hard-rock influences fairly well. It's something that makes you stand out some.

Ryan: It's something that's made us recognizable. There's no young band like us, and few older bands like us, that do the same things we do. I think we're a good alternative. Not everybody wants to hear the same style of music throughout the album.

Jon: The sound of music changes constantly, and if we were to go with what's "in" these days, put in more rap, it won't sound like us. It'd be like Korn doing some techno thing, or something.

Do you ever look around and say, "Geez, we've only been doing this for two years and look how far we've come already."

Ryan: Every once in awhile I think about it, and I'm, like, "Holy crap!" We've had a lotta luck. It's not like we have no talent at all, but, like, it takes a lot of bands with a lot more talent so much longer to make it. And sometimes it doesn't happen, which is unfortunate.

Jon: It's a shame, really, 'cause there's a lot of talent, tons of good bands all over the place.

Ryan: We're just lucky that it's all working out for us right now.

Well, who do you guys like? Who do you think has that level of talent? Who you listening to, or who you've toured with. Canadian, specifically.

Jon: Esthero is a good Canadian band.

Ryan: Yeah, they're amazing. We played with this one band, Slaves On Dope, and they're amazing. They're based in Montréal. Bif Naked's awesome - she's on our label. We just played a gig opening for her. We'd seen her videos, but never seen her live before - and she's got the craziest of live shows you've ever seen.

Jon: And she was really sick, too. She really does it for all her fans.

Ryan: She's a great person. She still had the time to meet us, invite us on to the tour bus, show that she cares about other bands. I'd love to tour with her in the future.

Stever: She's really nice.

Ryan: So much energy.

FORGET THE AGE THING AND (LISTEN).

Where do you usually play all-ages shows? Is it in clubs or other venues?

Jon: We play a lot of all-ages shows, but we play a lot that aren't all-ages. But any show is a good show.

Ryan: Adults are still receptive to us. In the early days, that was a big help to us, 'cause it made us feel like we weren't just making fools of ourselves. They'd be cheering and encouraging us.

Jon: It did feel a bit weird, 'cause all the 19-and-over crowd would just drink their beer, stand there and watch us… Kinda nerve-wracking. [As opposed to a more enthusiastic all-ages crowd.]

Does it make more sense to be playing to people your own age?

Ryan: Uh, I think, either way, it doesn't really matter. A show's a show. The more people who hear our music, the better. It doesn't matter who.

Jon: It's also good to show the older people, too.

Ryan: So they don't just think we're a bunch of kids who don't know what we're doing.

One of the things with EdgeFest is that you'll probably be playing to a lot of people your own age.

Ryan: If there's a young band in the audience, they always think, "How are we gonna make it? It's such a tough business." Stick to it. There's all these young, harder bands coming out. That stands to prove that you can do it, no matter how old you are. As long as you have the right drive and the right inspirations.

By now, you must be fed up with the whole "Oh, you're so young" tag.

Ryan: There's a whole stereotype thing. We've gone to shows where people think-

Jon: -we're the next Hanson. Which is just because all those young pop bands are coming out now.

Ryan: They try to group it all in, because it's weird for them to put us in a category of music that normal, older bands play.

Jon: But the only band I remember that was younger was Silverchair, when they came out. I think I was about 11 when they were 15. I thought it was great that they were young guys making this amazing music. But they got to fit in the category of rock, but I guess it's the thing now to be a young pop band. So I guess people are just kinda stuck: They don't know if they should put us in the pop category - which we're not.

It's ridiculous to lump you in with those teen pop acts, because of ).what). you're playing. You play hard, dark, loud, heavy alterna-rock.

Ryan: If it gets people to notice us, whatever. Any recognition is good. One of my main drives is to convince people - and I'll take as much time as I can, even if it's just with one person - that we know what we're doing, and we're not just a bunch of posers. Try and change as many minds as you can.

Jon: It's also kinda neat, when see us for the first time, maybe dragged in by a friend, and they think, "Ah, they're just gonna be playing Hanson pop tunes. I wanna listen to some heavy stuff." And they see us, and they go, "Whoa!" Totally different than what they expect. We like surprising people, and I think we're gonna surprise a lotta people at EdgeFest. We have a lot of female fans, but we'd like to have more males fans. I think the guys have a problem with liking a young band. But if they listen to us at EdgeFest, the might like us.

Dan: Some people will just stick to their story, though. At least they'll know what we sound like.

Stever: And know that we're not some wussy band.

If the crowds actually listen to you, you could make a lotta new friends.

Ryan: A lot of people will hear us that wouldn't actually come to one of our shows, just 'cause they don't know yet what we're about. It's definitely going to be great.

Jon: They've only heard "Skidrow," but we were only 12 years old when we did that. We're older now, we're a lot better with our instruments. Got a really good CD out, with some really good songs. We want to show 'em what we have now.

Who are you looking forward to seeing on EdgeFest?

All four: Silverchair and finger eleven!

Ryan: EdgeFest is really great; I've been to all the EdgeFests in the last few years, and I think this year's gonna be amazing. All the headlining acts are good acts; I can't think of one I don't like. I like the whole bill this year. Last year, I was right into Creed - they're just as heavy live as on the CD. EdgeFest is just enough so you don't get bored; enough to keep you satisfied and make you want to see it again next year. It's a good atmosphere, not violent or anything. Except maybe for the mosh pits - but if you don't wanna mosh, then don't go there!

Jon: Green Day was an amazing show [last year]. It's neat that they have Rascalz playing, too. I'm happy about that.

On the (edgefest.net) bulletin board, a lot of people had the opposite viewpoint - but of course they should be on the tour.

Ryan: You have to have respect for every band that's paid their dues. No matter what they play.

Jon: A lot of people are, like, too narrow-minded about their music. It's O.K. to like one kind of music, but if you can everything else, you're being a total idiot. Making a total ass of yourself.

Ryan: Totally ignorant. It's good to have hip-hop on the bill. It's not going to be just rock now. I think that'll help to bring a more varied crowd coming in. If you're writing music, and you don't ever listen to anything but the one kind of music you write, you're gonna get stuck in a hole of doing one thing.

Stever: Everything would sound the same, and people would just get bored of you.

Dan: It's like people who only listen to the music that's "in."

Jon: You've got to keep a big, open mind.

LATER FOR THE ONLINE HATERS

Have you seen some of the fan websites?

Ryan: We've seen all of 'em. It's great. I never expected that. It's so hard to imagine that you'd be doing anything, especially in such a short amount of time. To go on the net, type your band name into a search engine, and see all these websites… It's strange. Kind of a weird feeling.

Jon: Weird. And more coming, too. Brand new ones.

Are you finding that you've developed some real fans at this point?

Ryan: Oh yeah. Our fans are really supportive of us; they stick by us. A lot of them have been with us since we started playing shows. We're thankful to them. It's good to have those dedicated kind of fans who'll stick by you, and won't just jump to the next band that comes out: "Oh, let's drop these guys and move on to that one."

Have you seen some of the anti-Serial Joe websites out there?

Ryan: Yeah, we've seen 'em.

Jon: It's pretty pathetic, y'know. With the time and effort they put into this, they've got some pretty sad lives.

Ryan: I think anybody that's got that much time to waste on something like that, I mean… People have been on the Net and seen that, and that's how they've heard about us. So thanks for the publicity! But, honestly, if you've got that much time to waste, you've gotta get… a job or something.

Jon: It's just sad. Do something with your life, instead of sitting around in front of your computer, going "I hate them. This is how much I hate them. I'll draw a picture of how much I hate them." [Laughs] Four days later, "I finished it, man." You're a loser.