Stego's FAQ on India travel (Advices 1/3)

Subject: General advices.

From: moeneek@netcom.com (Monique Hodgkinson)

Date: 7 Jul 95

When I went to India 7 years ago there was a curfew in New Dehli. The flight got in late at night. The auto rickshaw driver who whisked us from hotel to hotel trying to find us a room at a place where he got a commission called it a quarantine. Really made me wonder what I had gotten into. Pretty funny, actually. The best advice about India is be patient, because there are sure to be some times when your patience is really tried.

Also, don't do the tourist trail right away. I spent three months in India and loved it, but many of the travellers I met in Jaipur had been in India for a short time and were hating it (they were faced with pickpockets in Agra, and very Aggressive vendors and rickshaw drivers). So I recommend seeing Agra, Jaipur, etc... after getting accustomed to the ways of the contry. I loved Simla/Shimla, Mysore, Bangalore. Bombay is much more interesting if you stay outside of Colaba. I found it to be really fascinating, and will go back when my kids are older.

Anyhow, have fun.

- Moe.

Date: 28 Oct 95

>After reading an India Travelogue by Mark and Evelyn Leaper

>(http://www.digimark.net/rec-travel/asia/india/trip.leeper.html)

>I have some concerns about my upcomming trip to India.

>Any advise on handling touts would be appreciated?

>I have one thing going: I am of east indian origin, but I fear once

>I open my mouth I'll be treated like any western tourist.

This is a serious problem Chris but one that can definitely be dealt with.

Most tourists (especially Western but even Indian) are targetted by touts outside airports, railway and bus stations etc. Most of them will attempt to "guide" you to a hotel of their choice, or attempt to sign you onto a package tour. While you are right to expect that your Western accent may make you a special target, let me assure you that *everyone* is fair game as far as touts are concerned. To give you an example, when I was 16, a friend of mine and I planned to travel to Darjeeling by bus. We were approached by a "private bus agent" at Esplanade terminus in Calcutta who sold us a roundtrip ticket on a "luxury bus." When we boarded the bus our seats were not reserved and we just about managed to grab a couple. On the way back from Darjeeling our return ticket was invalid and we had to buy fresh ones. After returning to Calcutta and threatening to go to the police, we got some of our money back but not all of it. And I live in Calcutta!

The best advice is to be very firm all the time. It helps to act tough because most touts want to avoid trouble. If your trip is well planned out, you will never have to rely on their help. Always keep a firm grip on your luggage and *never* under any circumstance, allow anyone to take it from you. Even a rickshaw driver.

My experience is that, as far as possible, it pays to stick with government run or approved agencies, transport co's etc. For instance, in my Darjeeling adventure, I would have avoided a lot of trouble if I had taken the West Bengal State Transport bus to Darjeeling, "The Rocket." At the same time, it is often difficult to avoid using private operators. At such times, make sure you can check their credentials. The size of their operation, their reputation etc. can be useful indicators. Trust your instinct. If you are uncomfortable than avoid a particular agent or guide.

Most of all, if you are unfamiliar with India, do not try to get into a game where you try to "outwit" the tout. They are much more experienced at it then you are and will quite cheerfully take you for a ride.

Some other suggestions:

* As far as possible, try and plan on a place to stay in before hand.

Or, atleast, make a list of options.

* If you are guided to a hotel check *everything* from sheets to bathrooms, ventilation and, most important, a tariff card.

* Try and avoid advance reservations with private bus co's. Buy your ticket as close to boarding time as possible.

* If someone is really persistent and you are having trouble shaking them off, tell them you are being met by someone, a friend, colleague, anyone.

I hope this helps. Good luck and have a wonderful trip.

Sanjoy

From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Myerson)

Date: 1 Nov 95

>After reading an India Travelogue by Mark and Evelyn Leaper

>(http://www.digimark.net/rec-travel/asia/india/trip.leeper.html)

>I have some concerns about my upcomming trip to India.

>Any advise on handling touts would be appreciated?

>I have one thing going: I am of east indian origin, but I fear once

>I open my mouth I'll be treated like any western tourist.

I have a friend whose parents were from India so he looks South Asian.

He says they can tell him apart without saying a word.

Generally, try not to look rich. It doesn't solve the problem but it can help. Sometimes it helps to say you don't want anything in the local language but its also no guarantee. Another recommendation is simply to not spend all of your time in places that are so packed with such people.

If all of your time is either in train or bus stations or at the Taj Mahal then you can get worn down no matter what. If you mix your time between such intense places and some slower paced areas not known for tourism (but still good for meeting Indians), then the hassle of the busy places gets broken up. Thats hard to do if you are on a short trip and want to see "everything" but its one way to get a break if you start getting burned out. There is no point in seeing a famous palace or fort if you won't enjoy yourself.

-- -- Dean Myerson

(dean@vexcel.com) (http://www.vexcel.com)

From: stego@cfn.ist.utl.pt (Mario Pires)

Date: 7 Nov 95

>After reading an India Travelogue by Mark and Evelyn Leaper

>(http://www.digimark.net/rec-travel/asia/india/trip.leeper.html)

>I have some concerns about my upcomming trip to India.

>Any advise on handling touts would be appreciated?

>I have one thing going: I am of east indian origin, but I fear once

>I open my mouth I'll be treated like any western tourist.

I'm not very good in handling touts anywhere in the world, I think that is the kind of thing that's very dificult to learn from others, experinence being the only way. I'll try to give you some "ideas" or "guidelines", that perhaps are more oriented to street vendors and drivers than to touts, but after all they aren't so diferent:

- Try to avoid and/or needing them. Perhaps because I have this habit of trying allways to manage myself alone before asking for help, I prefer trying to choose the places where I want to go and stay than to ask to put myself in the hands of a tout or taxi driver. For Bombay, for instance, I choosed a list of 3 or hotels to look for from reading and comparing the Lonely Planet's guidebook and the posts I collected in Internet.

Eventually, I ended up in a very expensive and not so good hotel, but at least I didn't get the feeling of being cheated by some tout. I have already the bad experience of following someone who suposedly would guide me to a "better" and/or "cheaper" place and endind up in the place I had though about after paying the tout's backsheesh.

When we have no much information, guidebooks and personal experiences seem me more trustful than tout's and street men's advices. That's valid for me even when the quality of the information we have is not warranted.

- Insist allways on knowing the price, conditions and location before you follow anyone. It's probable you'll end up paying a little more, but at least you have a figure to start bargaining. Make clear that you don't compromise yourself, and insist on fixing the comission for the case of endind not accepting the service or product.

- Have no conscience problems in not buying and/or accepting services even if they have spent a lot of time with you. That's easier if you followed the previous advice.

- Insist allways on fixing the price of the ride before you get in a taxi or rikshaw. It's quite common they trying not to do that; "you are my guest, you're my brother, you pay waht you think is fair after the service is done", etc are common talk, but in the end they'll allways ask for more than you give them, independently of the amount being big or small; that is: if he expects to receive 70 rupees, he'll do the same sad face wether you give him 70, 80 or even Rs 100.

- Try to ask for specific services: "go there, there, and that's *all*!", "make this and that, this way, that way", etc. Any little variation and changed idea will give them arguments to exagerate the price. Their strategy is trying allways to keep anything opened, not pre-negociated, so then it's easier to get you some more rupees. I some places, it can be quite dificult to convince the drivers not to wait for your "return" or next ride. Their tactic is not to accept your money and insisting that after you have made your visit or your shopings or end your meal and you don't want them anymore you can pay them that time. In those cases, evaluate if it is not hard to get a taxi or rikshaw in the place where you are staying before sending them away, but again, try to fix the price of the waiting the time. Most probably they will say that's free, but mention an amount that seems fair to you so they can not charge a lot for it later.

- Suspect if the price is too low. Most probably they are willing to sell you something else: a tour, a visit to a shop, anything like it. If you are firm enough, no problem, it'll be a good bargain, but prepare yourself to a long and insisting talk. That happens mainly in places like train stations, where most of the people doesn't have idea of the prices of things they're offering, so they can inflationate the prices.

- Don't panic in any circunstance! It can be somewhat strange being surrounded by half a douzen persons with not much respectful look for western standards shouting at you "Take this, take that, come with me, go with him, etc", generally mentioning very attractive prices, but generally there is no real danger (physical or material). Perhaps I'm not too careful because I've been lucky, but I have the feeling that the dishonesty of indian touts doesn't go further than getting payed more than the "fair" price. That is, most probably they're not real thieves trying to robb you, they just want you to pay them the maximum money they can for anything they sell. Auto-confidence is one of the better things when negociating. They pay a lot of attention to the our atitude and a lost, confused or frightened person is much more easy to cheat.

- Allways be firm. Try not to look too naif nor too expert. Remember that they know very well their business and all types of customers.

- Try to know in advance what you want (this hotel, that thing, that place) and where you are. That will give much more auto-confidence and that will make you a much tougher bargainer. It will help you also in guessing a reasonable price to pay. If you let them guide you completely you are in a bad situation for negociating and they can take you far away where you find yourself even more lost than before.

- Bargain allways but don't abuse if you are quite stressed. Try allways to pay less, but sometimes the efort is not worth. On one hand we have to think in terms of "indian", on the other we may have no patiente for bargaining for 10 or 20 rupees. If 2 USD for a taxi ride is ridiculous to us, giving 60 rupees to the auto rikshaw may be quite expensive, so you will be seen as a good victim to sell something else.

- Don't get too upset when you discovered you have been cheated. Paying 2 or 3 times the usual or "fair" price is quite common, but it's inevitable and most of the times the amount of money is not more than 1 or 2 USD. I mentioned this because the bad feeling of beeing cheated and constant distrust can be quite stressing and not worth the money involved. Mentalise yourself to be cheated in your first hours in a new town.

- Ignore them completely when you absolutely don't want to buy anything. Be firm, almost at the point of not being so polite. Be aware that if you show a little bit interest, like stopping, a little more attentive look or, the worst of all, asking the price of something they didn't yet mentioned, you will have much more trouble getting rid of them. And the second you pay attention to one, you will get surrounded by lots of them.

- Try to have an idea of the fair price of the thing you want to buy. That can be hard, because most of the times is not so easy to go out of a shop without buying something. The general rule that things are more expensive in shops maybe not be accurate everytime. Another thing is the quality, sometimes is very dificult to us to be able to evaluate it correctly.

Expect to pay far more for high quality merchandise, but there are huge variations in prices not related with quality.

Concerning you being of indian origin, perhaps that can be good, perhaps not. Some people say that they don't try to charge (cheat) indians and indian descedents so high as they do with foreigners, many times not because of a kind brotherhood but because they're expected to be smarter and more experienced in the indian ways than the others. On the other hand that indian look of yours can be used as a way of getting your confidence, arguing that you are their brother and so on, so you get more receptive to their talk and easier to convince. I myself am dark haired and dark skinned, specially after some days at the beach, so more than one time that was used to make conversation "you look just like an indian", "being portuguese perhaps you have goan ancesters", etc. I had no opurtunity of finding if I could get special treatment if I told them I had goan grandfathers. The advice of a goan friend of mine was to do it so they could think I was smarter than the common western tourist, but I hadn't the courage to lie on that.

Regards, have a nice trip. :-)

From: Suprakash

Date: 31 Jan 96

>My friend will go to India for tour next month. She would like to know

>the types of electric sockets in India as she expects to bring along a

>heater to boil water. I'd like to know whether the socket used is

>two-legged or three-legged and whether the socket is round or square in

>shape. More importantly, is it easy to obtain electricity supply from the

>room of budget-hotels. Can anybody give me some advice? Thanks a lot.

There should be no problem in getting electrical outlets for using personal items. It is standard 220V outlet. One can use round two prong plugs. But if it is high wattage device, then you must check the amp ratings on the socket. For example some 15 amp sockets can be with three holes (larger than two hole sockets, may require a separate plug (15 amp). But you may be able to find an appropriate adaptor.

Good luck.

Supu

From: mahamati <mahet@merlin.net.au>

Date: 11 Feb 96

i travelled with three kids, 7, l0 and 12 some years ago for five months, also later with a l2 yo son for a year and it was great.

Indians love families, so a couple with kids are very welcomed, and was ok for me travellinga lone too, espec. with a son. They all got sick off and on, ate local food and shared food with other travellers, were entertained and entertained, cards are a good standby in trains and on platforms. Sometimes the trouble is not attracting attention and trying, unsuccessfully to be unobtrusive. Blond hairedlittle girls get touched a lot if a friendly way, but this can be a bit much for some kids after a while and need some planning about where to sit on a train or bus - when there is that choice! Theyw ere never bored, but after three months did say " no more temples please mum" and later "no more gardens please", but were happy to sit in street cafes and watch and look and fascinated by the everyday life of people and how things were made, fixed, mended, cooked etc. DO IT - only trouble is they all now have an equally bad travel bug and are scattered far and wide.

From: exushml@exu.ericsson.se (Shyamal Prasad)

Date: 13 Feb 96

"nbergsma" == nbergsma writes:

nbergsma> Me and my wife (both 49) are considering to travel for

nbergsma> holiday to India in oktober 1996. But: where to go

nbergsma> North (including Nepal) or South? Or: dont go????? We

nbergsma> want to have a pleasant holiday not being confronted

nbergsma> with lots of poverty, filthy hotels etc We are used to a

Lots of poverty is something you cannot avoid in India. It's around you all the time, and Indians have never made any effort to sweep it under the rug for the tourists. It's just a fact of life....

As for hotels, if you spend the right amount of money you should not have to see any filthy hotels.

I guess you could have a "pleasant" holiday, it all depends on how you define the term. Don't try to do too much, travel slowly and DON'T try see a whole part of the country (like "the south") all at once. Remember India is big and it works slowly for lots of things, don't try to rush your trip.

Perhaps you might want to pick a single state (like Rajasthan, Kerela or Karnataka or whatever) and see everything. Try and keep things in perspective....for example Rajasthan is about the same size as California, with perhaps more to see, but (unlike California) practically *nothing* moves faster than 60 mph on the ground.

If you really don't want to see poverty I would suggest you go someplace else. I'm not saying it's wimpy to avoid poverty (most Indians would love to avoid seeing it too!), but in India poverty is never hidden away. Ever.

Cheers!

Shyamal

-- "Washing and Bathing in the crocodile infested river is prohibited.

Survivors will be prosecuted."

- Sign in the Mudumalai Wildlife Sanctuary, Tamil Nadu, India.

I speak for me, only me, and just me......

From: RobD

Date: 16 Feb 96

nbergsma@pi.net wrote:

>

> Me and my wife (both 49) are considering to travel

> for holiday to India in oktober 1996.

> But: where to go North (including Nepal) or South?

> Or: dont go?????

> We want to have a pleasant holiday not being confronted with

> lots of poverty, filthy hotels etc

>...

Wow, on that basis, why ever would you want to go to India?? You'd be better off going to Switzerland (or Canada)! In my experience, India last summer was the most wonderful, most transforming experience of my life. I am trying to save enough to go back this summer. But poverty is everywhere there. Spending money to isolate yourself there is a hollow chore. There is more humanity, happiness and reality than you could possibly experience in your own country.

Just my 2 pence worth. Hope it helps......

Rob

From: Louis.VanTiggel@ping.be (Louis Van Tiggel)

Date: 18 Feb 96

nbergsma@pi.net wrote:

>Me and my wife (both 49) are considering to travel

>for holiday to India in oktober 1996.

>But: where to go North (including Nepal) or South?

>Or: dont go?????

>We want to have a pleasant holiday not being confronted with

>lots of poverty, filthy hotels etc

>...

I spent two weeks in The south of India in january ,it was an organised tour and speaking with fellow travelers(who visited the North) it seemed that South India is much better if you are afraid of dealing with poverty , but I was amased that even the people who live in poor conditions always have a smile , something we in Europe seem to have lost even when we live our luxurious existance.

I did enjoy my stay in India very much , India is for me a country were every minute you can enjoy something different , walking a local market , farmers harvesting rice , fisherman bringing in their daily catch or any other daily activity seems interesting , , I was delighted of the marvelous sculpture of the temples , I fell in love with the kindness of the indian people of Tamil Nadu , Karnataka and Kerala , I enjoyed the Indian kitchen and on the hole the hotels were of good to very good quality quality , only one was filthy .

So my (personal) advice would be: try the South if you are afraid of the poverty and I am sure you will return next year to the north , as I will surely do in '97

Antwerpen - België "Smaak is geen kwestie van meerderheid" G.Walschap

From: stego@cfn.ist.utl.pt (J. Mario Pires)

Date: 12 Apr 96

>... India is a fascinating country, although it can be quite stressing to face its poverty, hasslers, bargaining, dirt, etc. One has to be prepared to various and never loose calm in any situation. In spite of it, people are kind and peaceful and, apart from pick-pocketing, I think that there isn't much criminality.

If your idea of traveling is something like going to a beach resort in the Caribean, South Europe and stay relaxdely most of the time, maybe India isn't a wise choice for you. On the other hand, if you like a little adventure, even without facing any danger, India is great for you.

...

From: jayarama@nunki.usc.edu (Prakash Jayaraman)

Date: 12 Apr 96

In article <4klq95$d0l@ci.ist.utl.pt> stego@cfn.ist.utl.pt (J. Mario Pires) writes:

India is a fascinating country, although it can be quite stressing to face its poverty, hasslers, bargaining, dirt, etc. One has to be prepared to various and never loose calm in any situation. In spite of it, people are kind and peaceful and, apart from pick-pocketing, I think that there isn't much criminality.

*****

Pickpocketing occurs only in the city buses and trains and only when they are crowded. About the crimes: Almost every place in India is safe. You can walk in the streets of any city late in the night. You can travel to any place at any time without worry.

***** Mario Peres: If your idea of traveling is something like going to a beach resort in the Caribean, South Europe and stay relaxdely most of the time, maybe India isn't a wise choice for you. On the other hand, if you like a little adventure, even without facing any danger, India is great for you.

*****

If one wants to visit beach resorts while in India, there are places in Goa, Kovalam (Kerala) and Mahabalipuram (Madras). In Goa, there is a beach called Bogomalo (Bogamalo?) beach. The water looked like a big piece of glass over the icebed. Extremely clear. (three years ago). (I don't like staying beach resorts because it is very expensive. I would spend that money on food and on purchasing local hand-made items.)

Aside, could someone tell me about the rental car experiences in India?

Prakash

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