Stego's FAQ on India travel (Advices 3/3)

From: holthe@news.ki.se (Holger Theobald cnsf)

Date: 20 Feb 96

TRAVELLING FROM NEPAL TO INDIA

I visited India a couple of months ago together with my girlfriend. We travelled by bus from Kathmandu in Nepal to the Chitwan national park, passed the indian border and continued to Varanasi by train. From Varanasi we continued by train to Agra, Jaipur and Dehli. I guess these are the main attractions. We also continued by air to Madras and Bombay before we went back home. Went purchasing Air India tickets abroad there are often discount tickets available for domestic fligts.

(The 2 hour flights to Madras and Bombay costed $20 each).

My impressions are that it is very easy to travel around by ones own, without a package tour. But you need a guide book with hotels listed etc because it is difficult to get correct information from people as many wants to cheat you to get profit. Other travellers are often more reliable than the indians on the street. Reservations are not needed in advance, there is for example a special ticket counter for tourist at the railway stations who have a special ticket quota for tourists, so it is enough to by tickets one or a couple of days before departure.

Trains seem to be more safe than busses, specially during night travel as there are bicycles, animals and vehicles without lights on the road at night Because of this quite common with lorrys and sometimes busses who has crashes along the high ways.

We went to Nepal and India in the beginning of july and stayed 5 weeks until middle of august 1995. We thought this was a quite good period because it is not the tourist season. At the indian tourist office home in Stockholm they told us that this time is very bad to go because of the warm temperatures and the rain season in india. Thats why we started our tour in Nepal where it is cooler and where the rain comes a bit earlier than in the north west part of india.

In middle of June temperatures can be very hot in Dehli, this year it was about 45 degrees celcius, but when we arrived in Dehli at end July it was much better temperatures due to the clouds and short periods of rain.

Travelling off season was also good as it was very easy to find hotels, get tickets on trains and buses. Hotel prices are also lower off season.

For example in Nepal some hotels charge almost half the price. In Nepal is more difficult to make trekking in the mountains due to the rain and the snowy mountains are less visible during the premonsun time.

Due to the rain we did not make a trip with the train to the mountainarea at Shimla north of Dehli, as we were unsure about the risk for landslides in the mountains, which might delay us so that we could miss our flight.

But we were satisfied travelling during the summer even if the tourist offices recommend travelling after the rain season in october to march.

The prices are very low. India is one of the cheapest countries in asia.

How much money you spend depends of your standard of living and how much you travel around. A simple hotel room with toilet and shower costs about 250 rupies for 2 persons ($10) and if you want it without own toliet and shower it is even cheaper. Nepal is said to be slightly more expensive but off season the price for the hotels were about the same.

A meal in a local cheap but clean restaurant costs about $2 but off course you can find expensive places too. Bombay is the most expensive city in india with hotel prices about 3 times as much.

KATHMANDU IN NEPAL

I visited Nepal in july 95 for one week on our way to India. We stayed in Kathmandu. The airport is located about 6 km from the city centre and we could walk from the airport with our backpacks. It was interesting to see the life on the streets with people making food, sewing, washing themselves etc and the cows, dogs, monkeys and other animals standing around. Actually we first took a public bus but my girlfriend didnt like the too small buses (built for Nepalese people) which made it impossible to stand straight up in them. There are plenty of cheap hotels in the Tamel area.

The durbar square in the centre of Kathmandu was nice with its many temples and the kings palace which is now a museum. It is walking distance from the Tamel area. It is also possible to walk to the famous monkey temple with its eyes on the pagoda. The monkeys might be angry, we were advised not to show them our teeth.

OUTSIDE KATHMANDU

From Katmandu are local buses driving to the nearby town Patan which also has a nice durbar square. The town is 5 km from Katmandu and the busses leave from the city bus terminal.

There are no signs on the buses but the ticket sellers use to shout the destinations of the buses at each stop.

From the Katmandu footballstadion are trolley buses going to Baktapur, about 30 km away. This city has a very nice durbar square with many temples.

At our visit there was some cases of Cholera so we didnt eat or dring any thing there.

From here it is possible to go by bus or taxi to Nagarkot, a 2000m high mountain about 25km away from where it is possible to see the mount Everest when it is not cloudy. The buses do not go very often and they are very full so people have to travel on top of the roof. We took a taxi for $15 return. 2 hours on the mountain was enough for us. There are several hotels for those who want to spend the night to see the snowy mountains during sunrise. At our visit it was too cloudy to see any snowy mountains, July is also in the beginning of the rainseason. During our visit in Nepal we could get a short glimse of some snowy mountains between the clouds ones.

We didnt do any trekking, it is possible but a bit moddy to walk during the rain season. We took a tourist bus to the Chitwan national park.

Actually the travel agencies wanted to sell 3 day package tours but we insisted only bying a bus ticket and then decide what to do etc when we arrived. This was good as we where free to arrange what we liked and to a lower price than other travellers on the same bus. Along the road where crashed lorries and also a few buses, so there seems to be accidents quite often (I would awoid travelling by night).

CHITWAN NATIONAL PARK The Chitwan national park is known for its wild rhinos, tigers, bears, birds and other animals- During the rainseason it is to mody to get into the park by jeep but it is possible to walk. If you meet a rhino which attacks, you should run away in zigzac and throw you hat behind you. The rhino dies not see very well and might attack the hat instead. After running in zig zac you should stand behind a tree so the rhino will not see you. Some rhinos might also stop if the guide throws a stick and hits the nose.

We didnt walk but we rented an elephant and made a 2 hour tour across the river into the forest.

We saw 5 rhinos as there just had been some rain which makes the them come out. There are also crocodiles in the river but we didnt go to look at them. There are plenty of cheap lodges at chitwan and during july there are plenty off free rooms as there are not so many tourists around during this time.

From Chitwan there are daily state buses going to the indian border. We reached the border after a couple of hours on the bus.

The Chitwan national park in Nepal north of Varanasi was easy reachable by bus. It was interesting going on the back of an elephant int the forrest looking at the rhinos in the national park. There were also crocodiles in the forest.

Varanasi was the most indian town we visited. Intersting with the old city, all the gats where corpses were burnt during the evenings and were hindus take their morning baths. There are many temples and a very big campus at the hindu university.

AGRA JAIPUR AND DEHLI

There are a few direct trains every day from Varanasi to Agra. Of course there are also buses. If you go to Krahurajo there is no train all the way, but it is a long journey so we didnt go there. The train to Agra is quite slow and takes one day and one night. There are plenyt of hotels in all places, just follow the guidebook, or walk into any hotel you see.

Dont trust any indian people running after you on the streets telling stories that the hotel you want to go to is flooded, clossed, expensive etc as they want you to go to their place where they get profit and that is put on your bill. There is the same trouble with rikshaw drivers.

The Tai Mahal in Agra is very beautiful, thee is also a Fort, and there is a very good connection with a local bus to the Faktapur city 30km outside Agra. The Faktapur city was built several hundred yåàrs ago but nobody moved there as there was lack of water. So it is now a museum area.

From Agra it is quite easy to go by bus or train to Jaipur, the pink city. Thee are also good connections to Dehli. There are several cheap hotels near the new dehli railwaystation. In Dehli it is my advice to take a local guided tour which are cheap $4 as it takes time with the big distances and the traffic to get around by one self.

The idea having a destination hotel in mind already at arrival is very good. It is in fact what we did too. We used the lonely planets book "A travel survival kit" for India.

There are many godd hotels in both Agra and Jaipur. We prefered the cheap ones and in Agra we stayed at the Akbar Inn on the Mall. It is situated between the railwaystation and Tai Mahal. There are also plenty of quite cheap places nearby the Tai Mahal.

When we went from Agra to Jaipur by bus we received the following printed message from the bus conductor:

Warning for Tourists going to Jaipur When the buses enter Jaipur, the FIRST STOP is only suitable for Tourists. Because at the last stop (called CENTER BUS STAND) the auto rickshaw drivers misguide you saing the nearby hotels are only Rs. 2 or Rs5 But they won't take you where you want to go! They will take you to a hotel of their Choice, where they can rip you off stela your things. It has happened before.

So all foreign to touriests are advised to p|Dase get off the bus at the FIRST STOP where the bus stops first, becouse some hotels are near by this stop, and the autorchaw drivers are honest at this stop. They will not rip you off and over charge you. Also don't listen to India local persons and bus drivers, because they won't let you get off. Follow your bible (Lonely Planet) and make your journey hassle free. Thanks.

Off course we followed this printed advise with its indian misspellings and we stayed at a family hotel 5 km outside the city centre which was in the Lonely planet guide book.

TRAVELLING BY TRAIN

You will do a lot off train travelling, perhaps you will become tired of sitting on a train every third day? But traintravelling is very good meeting local indians. Nowehere else you will begin to talk to so many different and nice indian people.

The train from Agra or Dehli to Madras takes almost 2 days. Trains are very cheap but if you want to speed up this journey there might be cheap flight tickets for about $25 or $50 with Air India. These tickets are only sold outside India and if you go by Air india to India. I am not sure about what kind of tickets they sell in Australia.

Yes, we also had problems finding our train. All trains look the same and there are no signs on the train telling where it goes. If you have seat reservations you have to find the carriage before the train leaves.

because it is not possible to walk between the wagons when the train is moving. But people are very helpful and we kept asking people on the station until we found our seats. Ones we had booked an airconditioned wagon, we asked people around us and people sitting in the train ( the train just stopped for a few minutes and it was very long) and they pointed in different directions. After having run along the train a few times somebody said it was here, but it had been replaced by an ordinary car, and we could step inside.

Another time,when we travelled from Varanasi to Agra, we could get help from the tourist office in the station to find our train, and there was no problems. In the train we had sleepers together with and indian family where the parents where working at the university and also the daughter was süudying at the university. They were very nice and cold explain all different kind of questions we had about indian behavior. sights.

politics, idnian life etc. They also let us join their indian meal they had brought on the train and the father also run away on a station when the train stopped to by bottles with soft drinks for all of us when the train made a short stop.

Ones we also entered the wrong train. When we wanted to go from Jaipur to Dehli we were quite sure to find the right train. We could see on the station which time and which platform the train should come on, we had also checked with the ticket office. And when the train arrived on time we entered the car where we had reserved seats. The train had just began to move when we asked a passenger if this was the train to Dehli.

No he said, this is the express train to Calcutta! The conductor was helpful and tried to stop the train by pull the emergency handle. Nothing happened. He tried another emergency handle with the same negative result. "Not working" he said and walked away. So we had to continue two hours with the train until it stopped at station where there was another train to Dehli.It was now 2 am in the morning and we bought new tickets (tickets are very cheap). There was different trains coming and going but the Dehli trian was late. But we asked the staff every time a train arrived (as the all look the same for us) until the right one came. Next problem was to find out which car to enter. Most cars where sleepers and we had now unreserved tickets. The train was very long. After a short while we were told that we should go to the second class unreserved wagons at the very end of the train. Just before we reached there the train began to move, and we thought - better to enter any car otherwise we would miss the train again. Some doors were locked but the last door in the whole train was unlocked and we opened it and jumped inside. My girlfriend thought it was a little difficult to get inside (the stairs are high) with the train moving. (Otherwise I might have been ïn the train to Dehli and she left on the station...) The car was not a usual car, it was the working place for a railway official who waves with a green light when the train is ready for departure. He seemed surprised seeing us entering his wagon. but we were alowed to contiue to the next station where we had to change car. We walked to th nearby second class unreserved wagon (We didnt dare to walk to long time outside the train during the stop as we thougt it may begin to move any minute again. The second class wagon had wood benches and it was full of indians sitting and standing on the floor and sleeping on the hat shelf. But after some hours standing and a couple of stops we also got woodseats. At stations as usual sellers, begars etc entered the train and as always people shouting thai thai thai (the sell hot indian milktea).

This was called a super fast train - it was quite fast in the beginning, but when we approached Dehli it bacame very slow and stopped on many places even if there was no station. When we finaly arrived in Dehli at noon so many people wanted go on the train so that it was hard to get off at the New Dehli railwaystation. (As this was unreserved wagons people wanted to be sure to get on). My girlfriend had to scream "let me out" - then they let us out before they continued battle with eachother to get on.

I hope you also go to Varanaci. This city is very special with the ganges river, the burning, and the very different typical indian life.

It was easy to go from Agra to Faktapur city. The best way is to take the local bus for $1 from the busstation in Agra. The bus goes ones an hour and takes one hour to Faktapur city which is the final stop. Usualy there are several tourists on the bus. If you ask in the tourist office they want you to take their tourist taxi for $20 or so - they say the local bus is very crowded. In fact it was very empty when we went, everybody on it got a seat. On the way back there was just 5 - 6 passengers.

We have experienced often that it is difficult to get correct information from indians as soon they see a possibility to make money. A guide book is therefore essential. You also have to know the real prices as some people want to cheat tourists (and other indians as well) to make money.

You save a lot of time if you make the sightseeing with local sightseeing tour as it takes a lot of time in Deh|i going to one sight to another by public transportation. And the organized tour is cheaper too.

Another place which is worth a visit is Simla. There are trains from Dehli up to the mountains in the north. The last hours before Simla you have to Change to a narrow gauge train which goes past steep mountains, through tunnels and over bridges - the sight is said to be beautiful. And the climate is cooler in the mountains than in Dehli. We didnt make this tour as we where ancious that landslides during the monsoon season would delay bus or trainservices so that we might miss our flights.

MADRAS AND BOMBAY

Madras is not really a tourist attraction but we thought it was very interesting to see another part of the country. People in south india behave different, have other colours on their clothes, speak tamil instead of hindi and make more spicy food. They might eat with their hands in the restaurant. If they chake their heads they mean yes instead of no.

Bombay was the most modern city we visited. They also had a planetarium with shows also in english wish was interesting

WHAT TO EAT AN DRINK

We didn't have any problems with our stomachs, but I have heard that stomach problems are common among travellers in india and similar countries. Therefore we had the rule only to eat cooked hot fresh food and drink bottled soft drinks or boiled tea. We never bought any food in the streets and always tried to estimate the hygienic standard in restaurants before ordering. We never went to expensive restaurants where food might have been warm for some time (heard of another traveller about stomach problems after such a visit). Quite simple restaurants with many visitors where food is fresh made are good.

We also never ordered meat because meat is seldom properly handled. There are few refrigerators in india and meat is mostly hangning in the streets with flyes sitting on them before it is sold. Many indians eat only vegetarian food and the meat is then not fresh when it is finaly prepared.

Chicken is good (they are often catched the same day, indians also eat chicken and they are therefore fresh). Fish is not allways avialable in the inland but OK to eat.

Only drink bottled mineral water, never water from the tap. Indians themselves can get sick of the water from the tap due to bad pipes.

Eat fruit only after cutting of the shell. Only eat properly boiled vegetables. Sometimes, in small villages, we could find any food with these rules, then we just had some bread, water and fruit - but the stomach felt well.

Was the trip too much of a strain on your relationship with a girlfriend?

I just asked my girlfriend this question. She had not been in asia before and was sometimes irritated of the behavior of the indians, cheating etc. It made her angry when the indians didn't behave like western people but she says this didn't affect our relationship. Well, in fact we got engaged after the trip.

I think it was a little problem that she easily became angry on the indians but I also was astonished that the indians had respect for an angry women.

I also think that you learn to know a person better, and learn to know other sides when having some strugle which has to be solved together.

But of course this kind of trip might be difficult if there is already strain in the relationship before the trip.

-- Holger.Theobald@cnsf.ki.se

In article <312576D6.68A0@mindlink.bc.ca>, RobD wrote:

>Michael F. Fox wrote:

>>...

>Hey Michael,

>You certainly can get anywhere in India overland. Just show up for the

>train in Delhi, and be prepared for 48 hours of travel, punctuated by

>chai-wallahs and meal-merchants all the time. Wonderful country --I love

>it! .........Rob

--

-- Holger.Theobald@cnsf.ki.se

From: Sfauthor@aol.com

Date: 9 May 96

For those of you who have never traveled to the Delhi-Agra-Jaipur tourist triangle in India, be forewarned--it can be quite a shock. (See my posts on Seeing the Taj, Hotels in India and Airports and Airlines for more information. This is my final post on the India segment of our trip.) One thing you should be aware of is that travel agents in India don't get their commission from the railway, the hotel or the tour bus. They get it from you. If you want to pay double what you need to, go to these folks:

Asian Tours & Travels 16/1 Doctors Lane Gole Market New Delhi They are thieves--and not even honorable ones. After talking with the hotel proprietors of a hotel they booked us into, I discovered that they don't even share the loot.

Avoid.

Airports and Airlines On our recent trip, we went through three different Indian airports and flew on eight different airlines around the world. Here are some observations:

1) Delhi. Used both domestic and international. A national embarrassment--long wait to get your luggage, dilapidated facilities, information desks that aren't too informative, people smoking despite the no smoking signs, customer service booths staffed by people determined to do anything *except* provide customer service. Despite what you may have read in the tourist literature, you cannot book train tickets at the airport.

Good points for the Delhi airport? Fixed price taxis for 150-250 Rs, tasty food and friendly people at the snack bar and tea stall, computerized State Bank of India branches.

2) Madras. Used both domestic and international. A vast improvement over Delhi--clean, quick. Bad points? Watch out for the clerk at the magazine shop in the international terminal. He's an "eve-teaser." That is, he'll try to feel up women under the guise of being energetically helpful.

3) Visakhapatnam. There is only domestic. Small and efficient. Only bad point was the attendant in the women's wash room that shakes you down for cash on the way out.

4) Airlines. Of the eight airlines, Cathay Pacific was at the top, closely followed by Virgin Atlantic. Air Lanka was pretty damn good, too. At the bottom? Indian Airlines.

Actually, one flight on IA was terrible: almost 4 hours late leaving Delhi and all of our luggage was soaked through because the bags were left outside in the rain during the security check process. Our other flight on IA was perfect--it left Vizag on time to the second. IA ground personnel range from abysmal (half of the staff in Delhi) to very good (everyone in Vizag).

Seeing the Taj What are the options?

Assuming you are going down to Agra from Delhi, the three main ways are:

1) Private car. Correct price is about $40 for down and back in one day.

2) Charter Bus. Much cheaper, but less flexibility because you're with a group.

3) Train. Take the Taj Express or the Shatabji Express. Also much cheaper (and faster and safer than by road). But you have to arrange to get to and from the train stations in both Delhi and Agra.

What to look out for?

1) Crooked travel agents that try to book the trip for you and overcharge you. Stay away from Asian Tours & Travels, 16/1 Doctors Lane, Gole Market, New Delhi. They are thieves.

2) Marble Emporiums. Just about any driver (they get a commission) of any vehicle is going to take you to a store in Agra selling inlaid marble work.

Nice stuff, but don't feel obligated to buy.

3) Eve-teasing in the Taj museum. As you face the Taj, to your left is a small museum with very nice drawings. The staff may try to "correctly position" young western women for "the best viewing angle." In fact, they are just trying to cop a feel. It is a sad commentary indeed that they conduct themselves in such a manner at India's premier attraction.

4) Signs saying "photography prohibited" are posted everywhere--and everywhere people take pictures anyway (except inside the Taj). Your call.

Probably best to be discreet.

5) You have to either take you shoes off or put on shoe coverings to go up the steps to the Taj. A rupee or two should suffice for the keepers--certainly no more than five.

Hotels in India My wife and I just completed a trip that included five weeks in India. Here are my opinions on the hotels we stayed in, ranked from best to worst. (All rates are for double rooms.) 1) Park Guest House in Pondicherry was immaculate, right on the beach and the only place we stayed that actually had mosquito netting. Only 300 Rs a night for their best rooms. It is run by the Aurobindo Ashram, so meat, drugs, etc.

are not allowed. They have at least half a dozen guest houses, with rooms going down to as low as 35 Rs a night. Unfortunately, all the guest houses are often completely full, there is no centralized reservation system and they do not take reservations over the telephone. Try reserving by mail. Be sure to check out the Cottage Restaurant. If you go straight from the Madras airport, try renting a private car for 650-750 Rs one-way. The bus is only about 25 Rs per person, but the bus stand is a long way from the airport (it's near Central) and it's a hassle.

2) New Woodlands in Madras was also quite good. Around 500 Rs a night. Hotel compound includes a restaurant (all-you-can-eat thalis for 33 Rs), a store, car rentals, laundry service, a hair salon and even a temple. Bathroom could've been cleaner. Weddings are held almost every day in their reception rooms. Only thing to watch out for is the local transportation. Walk down the street away from the hotels and you can cut your auto rickshaw bill from 35-40 Rs to 20-25 Rs. Also, make your own arrangements for a taxi to the airport or Central railway station.

3) Palm Beach Hotel in Visakhapatnam is undergoing major renovation through *at least* the end of summer. Until it's completed, I would suggest walking five minutes down the beach to the YMCA (under 200 Rs a night) or walking next door to the Park and get true five star comfort (for 2,000 Rs a night).

If you do decide to stay at the Palm Beach, be aware that it has big pluses and minuses.

Pluses: Right on the beach, large lawn, swimming pool in summer, reasonable price (about 500 Rs a night), laundry, room service, TV/AC/refrigerator/hot water, takes credit cards, acceptable restaurant.

Minuses: *Lots* of mosquitoes and they won't provide mosquito netting, back-up generators don't always work (and Vizag has five hours of power cuts a day), and an incompetent front desk. The front desk was unable to: keep track of the day we showed up, calculate the bill accurately, put a call through to our room, ring our room when visitors arrived, etc.

4) Oberoi Maidens in Delhi. About 3,000 Rs a night (it was actually priced in US dollars). Nice large room, clean, regular chambermaid service, but frumpy--and to my mind not worth a staggering 3,000 Rs. The really annoying thing was the incredibly unhelpful and understaffed front desk. The front desk at the New Woodlands was far more helpful and useful at one-sixth the price. The restaurant charged 80 Rs for their *cheapest* breakfast. Also, watch out for the auto rickshaw drivers parked in front of the hotel. They are very smooth and if you aren't careful, you'll find yourself at handicraft emporiums and crooked travel agents. I had a much better experience at the YMCA near Connaught in both 1978 and 79 than at the Maidens. Avoid.

5) Hotel Ellora, 33 Rangapillai Street, Pondicherry. Up to 400 Rs a night. We stayed here for two nights until a room at an Ashram guest house opened up. I wouldn't stay there again: unable to provide a tariff card, overcharged us, one towel for two people, and just basically slippery all the way around.

Avoid.

Bookstores in Madras Several months ago I posted a query about bookstores in Madras. Some of you may be interested in what I found.

1) Higginbothams on Anna Salai is reputed to be the largest bookstore in India. A general bookstore with most titles in English or Tamil, it reminded me of Cody's in Berkeley.

2) Giggles occupies one room on the ground floor of the Connemara Hotel. The books lay on their side, stacked in piles six feet tall. The aisle between the two rows of stacks is no more than two feet wide. All titles seemed to be in English and mostly about India. The books have been selected with an acute eye; very little chaff here. Staff was friendly and helpful.

3) Adyar bookstore has a good selection of both Indian and imported books.

Visitors should note that the Adyar Library is closed on Mondays, that the lunch hour for the Theosophical Society is very long and that groundskeepers will give you guided tours whether you request them or not. The effect is that of the lunatics having taken over the asylum.

4) Motilal was a disappointment. By the time one accounts for multiple copies of a title appearing in multiple locations on the shelves, the total number of titles in stock is not very large. Also not well organized.

5) Jayalakshmi Indological Book House (6 Appar Swamy Koil Street, Mylapore, Madras 600 004) is tiny, but a gem. The entire staff is sweet and helpful.

The proprietor has decades of publishing experience, having previously worked for Motilal and OUP.

6) In Pondicherry, the Aurobindo Ashram both publishes and sells books of excellent quality in English and all the major European and South Asian languages. They also publish half a dozen periodicals, including one in Sanskrit. Of course, their titles are limited to those written by Aurobindo, the Mother and their followers.

7) In Delhi, the World Book Fair had perhaps a thousand exhibitors organized by language of publication. There were a dozen Sanskrit publishers. None stood out from the others, although looking at the books that I actually bought, most of them were from Khemraj in Bombay. The hundreds and hundreds of English publishers were not further subdivided into smaller categories, so aside from the larger ones (Penguin, Rupa, etc.) they all tended to blend together.

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