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| Stego's FAQ on Nepal travel v.3 - Polemic on political, social and religious (castes) issues 1/1 |
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Keywords: Polemic
From: <gopal@sirius.com>
| Date: 96.05.02 | (Id.: 32) |
>OmrajUpadhyay wrote:
>: In article <4lot1u$3f1@nitrogen.mankato.msus.edu> grgmike@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Naresh Gurung) writes:
>:>Sid Uprety (sid@violet.umfacad.maine.edu) wrote:
>:>: Many people has misunderstanding about the cast. People should know cast
>:>: system is not a part of Hindu religion. It is a system developed by a
>:>: society leaving in that old era.
>:>
>:>I don't agree with you Mr. Uprety. As far as I am concerned, cast system is
>:>clearly written in beds and it was made by purohits for their own benefits.
>:>Actually, these people came from south (now known as India). Later these
>:>people ruled our nation dividing people. These people came to our land as
>:>needles and turned out to be elephants. I don't have any particular religion
>:>. Before we used to have our own religions, you know ethnic regligions but
>:>when these people were exiled by the muslim rulers and immigrated to our land,
>:>they brought their religion and holy books. And finally they slowly poisoned
>:>our great ancestors.
>:>
>:>What happened to our ethnic religions, scriptures? You may be curious. For
>:>your information, during RANA reign, most of our scriptures were destroyed
>:>forcefully.
>:>
>:>Naresh Gurung
>:>
>: That is very true, Mr. Gurung.
>: However, I am pleasantly surprised that the land, which we called ours
>: and thought every bit of our flesh and blood consisted the aroma of
>: our rice fields and mango orchard back home (naturally, I am from Terai, although
>: our ancesters, as far as i can trace the reliable histoty, were
>: from gorkha and later makawanpur) somebody calls only theirs.
>:
>: "Pleasantly" surprised because at least, somebody calls the place more theirs
>: than ours. Hope they do something more for the place.
>: Slightly different topic, I agree with your line of thoughts Mr. Gurung that
>: RANA regime was the darkest period in our history in many respect. During their
>: period our sisters "cheli-beti" started being sold to indian brothels
>: which is still continuing and has increased (Shame on we !),
>: our men started working for foreign army and becoming lahure, our several
>: generations were deliberately kept illiterate just because the RANA
>: dynasty could survive longer . Imagine, when there were universities opened
>: in Calcutta and Bombay, there was n't even a school in Nepal.
>: (by the way, education was compulsary in Japan after 1872 AD, no wonder
>: they are there where they are now)
>: If any one group is most responsible of present state of the country, it
>: is Ranas. All they did was, plundered the state wealth, ran the country as
>: their own state, licked boots of english saheb in india and in britain and
>: lived like a parasite thriving on blood and sweat of the people. They are
>: still the most privileged families even in democratic Nepal.
>: Amaging, there are people who write "shamsher jung bahadur rana" at
>: the end of their names, as if they are proud of the dark dynasty.
>: Omraj Upadhyay
>Is not it very miserable that we are still being ruled directly or
>indirectly by these same Ranas!
>Look at the present situation of Nepal. Who are the main power
>brokers? Either Shahas or Ranas. But are the Shahas different
>than Ranas?
>Take an example of one bottle of milk and one bottle of water, and
>mix them together. From this mix, take one bottle and mix with another
>bottle of water. Continue this process for 10 times. At the end of
>10th mix, how much % of milk will be left in the mix. Virtually zero!
>(Mathematically 1/1024 th part).
>Similarly, look at the marriage system of Shahas, Every time, the Shah
>is going to marry a Rana girl. At the end of 10th generation, the product
>will be virtually same as Rana. The probability that the genetic content
>When someone asks me "Is the Hindo caste system better than.." it is quite apparent that he/she sees the merits of Hindu caste system and I symphathize with that person. It is like asking "Is discrimination system better than...," well you know the answer, I hope.
Caste system it to manupulate weak, ignorant and at times strong and wise people by other con artists. According to Hindu Caste system, a person is supirior not by deeds or qualificaitons he accquires but the simple fact that he was born in a so called higer caste. In other words poor people should always remain poor. People talk about Hindu books and their authenticity but I have a very different opinion and theory about these books. If you are interested please email me at gopal@sirius.com, leave your email address and I will send you my theory on that subject.
In fact, British people got the theory of "Divide and Conquer" from the hindu caste system.
Keywords: Polemic
From: Kalyan Rai <ha5kra@zen.sunderland.ac.uk>
| Date: 96.05.03 | (Id.: 33) |
>indirectly by these same Ranas!
>Look at the present situation of Nepal. Who are the main power
>brokers? Either Shahas or Ranas. But are the Shahas different
>than Ranas?
From what I have been told the Shahas had bought their Khstrya ( 2nd one up in hindu caste system after the brahmins) from brahmins and they were are actualy your average Joe and were not original anything (in terms of caste). Well that's what I have been told. Anyway, it's the 20th century, we shouldn't have a this out-dated thing still going in Nepal as it is inevitable holding Nepal's progression, what ever little there was going to be but that's beside the point. Oh well since I'm talking about the subject, we should also throw, nepotism out the window. And the bearaucracy red-tape and adopt a more friendly attitude with each other and then and only then Nepal can really make progress. ( Read with sarcasm in mind-> ) But then I suppose this has been said before and we're all still waiting for this to happen !
PROGRESS MY FRIENDS AND THEN WE CAN STOP KISSING SOME INDIAN ARSE !
My 2 paisas' worth!
Kalyan Rai
Man U for the double 1995/96!
Keywords: Polemic
From: Naresh Gurung <grgmike@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
| Date: 96.05.09 | (Id.: 34) |
>>indirectly by these same Ranas!
>>Look at the present situation of Nepal. Who are the main power
>>brokers? Either Shahas or Ranas. But are the Shahas different
>>than Ranas?
: From what I have been told the Shahas had bought their Khstrya ( 2nd
:one up in hindu caste system after the brahmins) from brahmins and they
:were are actualy your average Joe and were not original anything (in terms of
:caste). Well that's what I have been told. Anyway, it's the 20th
:century, we shouldn't have a this out-dated thing still going in Nepal as it
:is inevitable
:holding Nepal's progression, what ever little there was going to be but that's
:beside the point. Oh well since I'm talking about the subject, we should also
:throw, nepotism out the window. And the bearaucracy red-tape and adopt a more
:friendly attitude with each other and then and only then Nepal can
:really make progress. ( Read with sarcasm in mind-> ) But then I suppose this
: has been said before and we're all still waiting for this to happen !
:PROGRESS MY FRIENDS AND THEN WE CAN STOP KISSING SOME INDIAN ARSE !
:My 2 paisas' worth!
:Kalyan Rai
:Man U for the double 1995/96!
:I hope!
:Email at : ha5kra@zen.sunderland.ac.uk
:And Naresh Gurung, are you the geezer from Hong Kong ? If so give us an
:email!
Yes it's me Kaal, long time no see.
I used to think like you but now after I came to Nepal and seeing our the condition and position of our people I became what I am now.
I also hate Indians like hell. But you know, brahmins in our country have the same roots that indians have. Are not they the same persons ? They have the same characteristics and smell like goats.
To convince you, I have gathered some informations from history.
To me, Ranas and Shahs are OK. These people are not as clever as brahmins. Just because of Maharaja Junga Bahadur Rana, these people have powers now. I know he was a kunwar, but anyway his descendants have supreme power in our country.
Tell me , is the history of Nepal really true ? Our history has lots of bull shits and they were all written by bahun historians; just to impress them and get what they wanted. We have been cheated from the prehistory of Nepal.
Our country is the only Hindu kingdom in the world. But the fact is there are approx. 80% non hindus in our motherland. Coz, the answer is very easy; our leaders are all hindus, in fact all bahuns. If that so, then why isn't our king the chairperson of the world hindu organization ? Why some indian jerks be in that position ?
Yes, I agree, our grandfathers were sold to British Army by the Ranas. Were not there other groups in the entire country ? Why gurungs, magars and rais ? Because, bahuns have been fooling royals from the beginning, saying that the royals were Bishnu's avatar and slowly poisoning our society. As written in Purans, royal priests have more respect than the royals themselves. It was their idea to send us abroad and fight with noone, never heard and for no reason.
By sending these troops to join the British Indian Army, they would get lots of money. What was this money for ? Where did this money go ? You ask yourself. During the first world war , there was not even a sight of male villager in our villages. Even the children underage were forcefully sent away.
You know, how british empire has been impressed by our loyal grandfathers.
We have british scholarships in Nepal but I have not heard a single student from our race, getting that scholarship. Do you know about the school named BUDHANILKANTHA? It was mainly meant for the sons and daughters of british gurkhas but later it was filled by bahuns.
The royalty and the pride that our grandfathers achieved has got nothing to do with us in our country !! Royal Nepalese Army think they are the famous gurkhas, but sorry they are not. They are taking advantages. While look at the retired british gurkhas ? What values do they have in their own country ? Look at those soldiers decorated with honors, what are they doing ? I mean what the nepalese government has done for them ?
We are being cheated man and will be, if not guys like you and me don't fight for our rights. Have you seen our people in the ministry ? Some are there but it's giving lollipop to a child. If one of our people reach high posts, there will be lots to pull back. Look at the case of D.B.Lama, ex Inspector General of Nepalese Police Force.I have heard that one gurung has become a brigadier general in RNA, but you wait and see the tamasa (drama).
If you have seen any nepali feature films, you will see our people in rolls like kancha (ie servant), waiter, police constables, drivers, etc. Even in negative rolls, our people play in the background.
They are given the worst part. All the good parts like officers, businessmen, doctors, managers or executives etc are dominated by others.
But the problem is your and our people don't raise their voice that they have been descriminated. Our people in the villages are still uneducated.
We have to open their eyes and lead for our rule.
Sorry man, I think I am going tensed. I would like to stop here.
Wake up Kalyan and others as well.
I hope you would change your opinions.
Best regards,
Keywords: Polemic
From: Prem Gurung <kguest@makalu.Stanford.EDU>
| Date: 96.05.11 | (Id.: 30) |
Here is something from a book "Essays In the Practice of Government of Nepal" by Rishikesh Shaha (page 98)
According to a study conducted by the Center for Economic Development and Administration, 80 per cent of the positions of power and profit are still held by the Brahmans, Chettris and Newars, who represent a small minority of the total population of Nepal. A subsequent survey has revealed that more than half the government civil service is drawn from the Kathmandu Valley, which contains about three per cent of the population of Nepal.
The chronic state of inequality, which has tended to give the widest possible opportunity for government service and education to only three castes and to one small area of the country, cannot be said to be consistent with the modernization goals of the country.
........
... ...
A victim of nobody's oppression,
Keywords: Polemic
From: Prem Gurung <kguest@makalu.Stanford.EDU>
| Date: 96.05.11 | (Id.: 31) |
>tuladhar@enci.ucalgary.ca (Raju Tuladhar) writes:
>> OmrajUpadhyay wrote:
>>: In article <4lot1u$3f1@nitrogen.mankato.msus.edu> grgmike@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Naresh Gurung) writes:
>>:>Sid Uprety (sid@violet.umfacad.maine.edu) wrote:
>>:>: Many people has misunderstanding about the cast. People should know cast
>>:>: system is not a part of Hindu religion. It is a system developed by a
>>:>: society leaving in that old era.
>>:>
>>:>I don't agree with you Mr. Uprety. As far as I am concerned, cast system is
>>:> .........
>>:>
>>:>What happened to our ethnic religions, scriptures? You may be curious. For
>>:>your information, during RANA reign, most of our scriptures were destroyed
>>:>forcefully.
>>:>
>>:>Naresh Gurung
>>:>
>>
>>: That is very true, Mr. Gurung.
>>: However, I am pleasantly surprised that the land, which we called ours
>>: and thought every bit of our flesh and blood consisted the aroma of
>>: our rice fields and mango orchard back home (naturally, I am from Terai, although
>>: our ancesters, as far as i can trace the reliable histoty, were
>>: from gorkha and later makawanpur) somebody calls only theirs.
>> :
>>: "Pleasantly" surprised because at least, somebody calls the place more theirs
>>: than ours. Hope they do something more for the place.
>>: Slightly different topic, I agree with your line of thoughts Mr. Gurung that
>>: RANA regime was the darkest period in our history in many respect. During their
>>: period our sisters "cheli-beti" started being sold to indian brothels
>>: which is still continuing and has increased (Shame on we !),
>>: our men started working for foreign army and becoming lahure, our several
>>: generations were deliberately kept illiterate just because the RANA
>>: dynasty could survive longer . Imagine, when there were universities opened
>>: in Calcutta and Bombay, there was n't even a school in Nepal.
>>: (by the way, education was compulsary in Japan after 1872 AD, no wonder
>>: they are there where they are now)
>>: If any one group is most responsible of present state of the country, it
>>: is Ranas. All they did was, plundered the state wealth, ran the country as
>>: their own state, licked boots of english saheb in india and in britain and
>>: lived like a parasite thriving on blood and sweat of the people. They are
>>: still the most privileged families even in democratic Nepal.
>>: Amaging, there are people who write "shamsher jung bahadur rana" at
>>: the end of their names, as if they are proud of the dark dynasty.
>>: Omraj Upadhyay
Dear Mr. Omraj Upadhyay,
My compliments for putting it so well that Nepal belongs to all Nepalis.
But I beg to differ on that 'Slightly different topic' which sounds like you are being/were victimized by the Ranas. How awful it must be/have been.
I don't think it was Ranas who started allowing Nepalis to be recruited in the British Indian Army. It started soon after the last Anglo-Nepali war of 1814-1816, long before Ranas came to power. And of course it continues (by the way it is quite competitive!).
You seem to view this negatively, however, it has been a boon to us.
I am of Gurung ethnicity and a proud citizen of India and ever grateful to those who allowed my fore fathers to serve in the Indian Army, and not languish in the hills - like many do today (not in hills any more but in the terai and cities).
And are you sure that it was Ranas who started to sell your sisters "cheli-beti" to Indian brothels? Why blame the Ranas when the practice still continues (thrives) after power has changed hands?
Since Nepal is now democratic, blame yourself for not being able to stem this immoral trafficking of Nepali women.
And why shouldn't "shamsher jung bahadur rana" be proud of their last names like others are? Should they bow their head every time you, Mr Omraj Upadhyay, pass by so that you can feel good?
Am I to be blamed for the (mis)deeds of my ancestors?
And what if allegations against G P Koirala, Surya Bahadur Thapa, Marich Man Singh etc. are true? So do we brand their children and anyone with those last names as criminals? And they should forever hang their heads in shame to appease you?
And what about yourself, Sir? Are you sure your forefathers didn't commit any sin against the people? Are you absolutely sure they didn't conspire with the erstwhile ruling class to deprive fellow Nepalis of education? (Since you so proudly claim to have descended for Gorkha, the seat of power then)
I hope you get the point - you can't blame the present generation for the crimes of past. I mean its not as if Jung Bahadur Rana consulted the present generation Ranas before doing what he did, just as my father didn't ask me before lopping off enemies head! I don't think this is acceptable anywhere in the civilized world.
And are you sure that Rana's are still the most privileged?
When I was in Nepal last time, I heard that Bahuns were the new masters. Not that I have anything against the privileged class, but it pains me to see the dominant castes (Bahuns, Chettris and Newars) (BNC) portraying themselves as victims. It's ludicrous to say the least.
Please, spare me of your rhetoric against Ranas or any fellow BNC, unless you want to be an example of "those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
Nobody's victim yet, Prem Gurung
Keywords: Polemic
From: Raju Adhikari <raju.adhikari@wadham.oxford.ac.uk>
| Date: 96.05.11 | (Id.: 35) |
I am writing in response to Naresh Gurung's article which touched me in its own way. Thank you Naresh for the article. It was interesting to read and I could feel your urging emotions.
I agree Mongolian derivatives ( your kind of race ) are somewhat backward but I don't think it is wise to put all the blame on Bahuns. I get the impression that you are taking Bahuns as aliens coming from India. But don't you think the Mongolian race migrated to Nepal from somewhere else in the beginning? I think it is unwise to say you people have been cheated in the past. If you think Nepal belongs to the Mongolian race people, then my friend, the now so called Americans are actually aliens and they should leave America for the Red Indians to rule the continent. This topic is very sensitive.....Not everyone is smooth.I would be very careful when putting this sort of matter into cyberspace...
You then went on to talk about Bahuns being the clever criminals of the society. Do you think the mongolian race has been genetically discriminated? You know Japanese people ,... right? Gurungs, Magars, Rais were suited as Army people. I still don't think they were forced to leave Nepal and join the British Gurkhas....they went for money. What about the BIG manson like houses in Kathmandu and Pokhara? Who do they belong to?
You then brought Budhanilkantha School forward to enforce your right in the school. Let me tell you it was King Mahendra's own idea to have Budhanilkantha where bright students from all over the country could get best education so that they can be an important assess for the country's development. It was NOT meant ONLY for the sons and daughters of the British Gurkhas. And let me tell you the institution does NOT discriminate against race, sex ( although it used to) or colour. You are most welcome to contact the school on 371 637 or 371 640 if you need further clarification.
You then said the brave Gurkhas haven't been honoured. You are absolutely right. I fight for your point. But WHO have been recognized by the government? The government is simply ignoring these things which it shouldn't be doing.
This is all I want to say for the moment. Great that you are doing something for your fellow race.I do realise this and I will always be in your favour. But as I said, one needs to be 'politically correct' in this era. You can't just convince people with hyper emotions but surely you will with long lasting skills of 'working better together'.
Raju Adhikari
Wadham College Oxford, Great Britain.
Ps: I quote Naresh's statements below:
----------------------------------------------------------------
grgmike@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Naresh Gurung) wrote:
>I also hate Indians like hell. But you know, brahmins in our country have
>the same roots that indians have. Are not they the same persons ? They have
>the same characteristics and smell like goats.
>Tell me , is the history of Nepal really true ? Our history has lots of bull
>shits and they were all written by bahun historians; just to impress them and
>get what they wanted. We have been cheated from the prehistory of Nepal.
>By sending these troops to join the British Indian Army, they would get
>lots of money. What was this money for ? Where did this money go ? You
>from our race, getting that scholarship. Do you know about the school named
>BUDHANILKANTHA ? It was mainly meant for the sons and daughters of british
>gurkhas but later it was filled by bahuns.
>the retired british gurkhas ? What values do they have in their own
>country ? Look at those soldiers decorated with honors, what are they
>doing ? I mean what the nepalese government has done for them ?
>Sorry man, I think I am going tensed. I would like to stop here.
Keywords: Polemic, Culture & Religion
From: Omar Shafey <shafey@ix.netcom.com>
| Date: 96.09.11 | (Id.: 169) |
<Pine.GSO.3.93.960911184033.29360B-100000@insect.sd.monash.edu.au>, bhanu limbu <bhanu@insect.sd.monash.edu.au> wrote:
>On 10 Sep 1996, Nerapa wrote:
>> Ref Dowary system in India, why they love to burn their honey for money in
>> the name of HINDU religion. Nepal is a absolute Hindu Country in the
>> World .....
>Do you really believe in this ? Actually I am getting sick and tired
>of nepali people stating statements like of " Nepal is a absolute Hindu
>Country" and "Bahun Chhetri are the majority" as facts. I am not an
>expert in this field but I do believe strongly that there have been some
>distortion in the facts. I don't believe we should consider the
>religions of rai, limbu, tamang, gurung, sunuwar, tharu...as Hindu. Until
>I was 19 I was confused about my religion as hindu. The reason being, ever
>since I began my primary school i was made to believe with those school
>text books that I was hindu. I would rather call it a cruel brain
>washing technique used by Nepali government which is predominantly hindu.
>Very sad and pathetic!
>As for the Bahun Chhetri being the majority, how about counting rai,
>limbu, gurung, magar, tamang, newar... as Mongoloid? Or perhaps how about
>counting neupaane, adhikaari, paudel .... separately ? Then we know who
>are the real majority.
>No offence.
>bhanu .
Dear Nepali Brothers and Sisters, Namaste.
Below are Nepal's 1991 census figures with the census department's ethnic divisions and enumeration. I hope you may find it useful and/or interesting. There is a 1994 update that I will try to locate and post if anyone is interested.
| CHETRI | 2,968,082 | 16.05% | BRAHMIN | 2,388,455 | 12.92% | ||
| MAGAR | 1,339,308 | 7.24% | THARU | 1,194,224 | 6.46% | ||
| TAMANG | 1,081,252 | 5.85% | NEWAR | 1,041,090 | 5.63% | ||
| KAMI | 963,655 | 5.21% | YADAV | 765,137 | 4.14% | ||
| MUSALMAN | 653,055 | 3.53% | RAI KIRANTI | 525,557 | 2.84% | ||
| GURUNG | 449,198 | 2.43% | DAMAI | 367,989 | 1.99% | ||
| THAKURI | 299,473 | 1.62% | LIMBU | 297,186 | 1.61% | ||
| SARKI | 276,224 | 1.49% | TELI | 250,732 | 1.36% | ||
| KUSAHAWA | 205,797 | 1.11% | CHAMAR | 203,919 | 1.10% | ||
| SANYASI | 181,726 | 0.98% | KURMI | 166,718 | 0.90% | ||
| MAITIL BRAHMIN | 62,886 | 0.88% | KALWAR | 162,944 | 0.88% | ||
| MUSHAR | 141,980 | 0.77% | DHANUK | 136,944 | 0.74% | ||
| MALLAHA | 110,413 | 0.60% | SHERPA | 110,358 | 0.60% | ||
| BANIYA | 101,868 | 0.55% | KEWAT | 101,482 | 0.55% | ||
| 20 OTHERS | 1,843,440 | 9.97% | |||||
| TOTAL | 18,491,092 | 100.00% |
Keywords: Polemic, Culture & Religion
From: Partha <pat@scorpion.de.sc.ti.com>
| Date: 96.09.11 | (Id.: 170) |
>Ref Dowary system in India, why they love to burn their honey for money in
>the name of HINDU religion. Nepal is a absolute Hindu Country in the
Name an Instance where a Bride Burner says he is doing it for Hinduism.
I agree, there are still animals out there who go to the extreme to get their dowry... but what you posted was plain wrong..they are just a bunch of rascals regardless of whatever religion they belong to..
Regards
Partha
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© J. Mário Pires, 4 Mar 97
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