*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:27:56 -0700

From: Adam

Subject: Re: Did they or didn't they?: Interesting thread on new-sgroup

jmcs wrote:

> At 15:44 18/06/97 -0800, you wrote:

> >This was posted to the newsgroup from Kenneth . I know some

> of you

> >don't have access to the NG yet so I've cross posted it. I think the

> >question it raises is too interesting to be missed by any. What do

> you guys

> >think about this??

> >

> >In article <01bc7ac5$5a0738e0$40809bd0@default>, "Kenneth "

> > wrote to alt.movies.beautiful-thing:

> >

> >> Howdy group, thanks David...

> >>

> >> Have you wodered if Jamie may have gotten carried away from Ste

> being naked

> >> during the night. How many 16 year olds would resist having Ste

> naked to

> >> him. Although he denied any action during the movie, maybe Jamie

> took

> >> advantage of the situation.

> >>

> >> What are your opinions?

> >>

> >> What about Ste saying not in the flat with Sandra and Tony, oldman

> and

> >> Trevor next door and going to his deaf aunts? What were they

> looking for?

> >

> >Oh, now HERE'S an interesting thread! If I understand you correctly,

> you're

> >assuming that Jamie and Ste DIDN'T have "sex". (I put it in quotes

> because,

> >even if they did in some sense of the word, we don't know just how

> far that

> >went).

> >

> >All this time I've been assuming that they DID play around. "I'm a

> bit

> >soar," doesn't rank as a "no" to the question, "Can I touch you?" I

> also

> >base this on Ste's uncomfortableness, his not hanging out with Jamie

> after

> >that, and Jamie's confrontation with him at the party by the lake.

> What, do

> >I just have a dirty mind? I don't think so. Jamie's saying, "want to

> come

> >around tonight?" For what I wonder? I thought their denial of

> "nothing

> >happened" to Leah was just that, a lie.

> >

> >As for the other scene where Ste gives Jamie the hat, well Ste is

> >explaining his uncomfortableness about having to hide what they are

> doing

> >-- even if it is a necessity, given Ste's dad. Haven't we ALL felt

> this

> >way? It's as if there's something to be ashamed of; Ste doesn't want

> that.

> >Who the hell does?? But what to do. Why do you THINK Ste thought of

> going

> >to stay at the aunt's who is death -- because she wouldn't HEAR them.

> Hear

> >what, you ask? :-o

> >

> >I'd be VERY interested to hear what others think about this question

> -- so,

> >as it is in a public forum, I'm taking the liberty of cross posting

> this.

> >

> >Mike

>

> Brace yourselves because Im afraid thiss going to be a very long

> post.

>

> First of all, my humble opinion is that as Ste says: 'Nothing

> happened'

>

> Im talking about my personal feelings so maybe Im wrong or Im very

> naive.

> Besides, I love diversity and different points of view. Id love to be

>

> proven wrong so that we could talk more about it.

>

> Lets see... (Im concentrating now):

>

> Stes so shocked and shaken about whats going on that 'doing it'

> would be

> too much too soon for him. Put yourselves in his place (me too) hes

> afraid

> of his feelings, he tries to be a tough guy, he has been forced to

> survive

> inside his own family, he knows he has no one who cares for him so he

> denies

> being vulnerable, having any needs whatsoever. But he is, hes very

> vulnerable and scared. Then suddenly he finds someone that cares for

> him,

> someone whos treating him kindly and with respect, someone who values

> him.

> Someone whos just kissed him and caressed him. But hes a man!!

> At the same time hes realizing he needs Jamie, that he wants him, he

> needs

> to be touched, he needs to be cared for. Jamie knows this too and I

> believe

> hes sensitive enough to give Ste what he needs without going too far.

>

> Ive thought a lot about what could have happened. Jonathans the one

> who

> can answer this but what my feelings tell me they did is this:

>

> The last thing we see is Jamie caressing Stes face and chest. Im

> sure all

> of you noticed he was caressing the bruise Ste had just shown him (I

> cry

> when I see this), so after that sweet caress Jamie bends over Ste and

> kisses

> his forehead, his eyes, his nose, maybe his lips again and then, very

> tentatively Ste reaches out and starts caressing Jamies face,

> discovering

> for the first time what it is to share with somebody. Maybe at some

> time

> during their mutual caresses they cant stand it anymore and they

> embrace in

> their need. They must be as close as possible, feeling each others

> skin, so

> they undress each other. Maybe they stroke each other in wonder, just

> revelling in the feeling of being caressed, of caressing anothers

> warm

> flesh. Maybe they even cry at the beauty of it. And then, still in

> wonder,

> they hold again and they fall sleep in each others arms.

>

> Maybe Ive been too romantic, naive or simply stupid but thats what

> my

> heart tells me it happened. I admit I can be wrong and what Mike says

> makes

> sense. As for 'the aunty in Gravesend whos deaf' Id explain it like

> this:

> Stes scared they can be discovered, he thinks sex is 'noisy' and they

> can

> be heard, and besides they have their whole families around. He feels

> safer

> 'doing it' for the first time with only a deaf person around.

>

> I cant prove they did it that night (or that they didnt do it), I

> can only

> say what I feel.

>

> I hope Ive made any sense to you. Thank you for listening.

>

> Take care.

>

> Sandra.

>

> _______

> ____________________________________________________________________

> _______

> "Im very happy. Im happy when Im with you." - Jamie to Ste in

> 'Beautiful

> Thing'.

> _______

> ____________________________________________________________________

> _______

Sandra...I started crying when I read your post!!!! It was sooo

beautiful!! I think you are ok:)LOve ya Adam

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:47:54 +0000

From: AppleKid

Subject: Did they actually do it? Uhhh...........no!

I agree completely with what Keith  had to say on this subject.

Here's my two cents worth

 

I don't thing they had "sex" that first night. I believe they

were exploring their new found emotions, and that they simply fell

asleep in each others arms. When Ste woke up with his arms around him I

think he was a bit overcome as he never woke up with anyone before,

nevermind his mate from next door!

"I don't feel all turned on and starry eyed- I just feel a

sweet contentment deep inside- Holding you at night just seems kind of

natural and right- And it's not hard to see that it isn't half of what

it's gonna turn out to be..."

I think the song says it all

John

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:51:06 -0800

From: Mike

Subject: Yo!

Beautiful Things,

I'm away from my computer for the next few days. Gonna miss watching all

this great back and forth on the list. Some very INTERESTING threads being

woven here. You guys are Great! Sorry I won't have time to respond to some

of the stuff -- like what love is. Maybe I can pick up on that next week.

In the mean time, have fun and play safe. "Ya gotta enjoy yourself, dears!"

And, for heavens sake, try to not take yourselves or anyone else TOO

seriously. Taking offense is easy to do, I know, and occasionally it may

even be warranted. But those of us on this list are NOT "the enemy". And

we're not perfect, either. Try as hard as we may, we'll still screw up a

certain percentage of the time. We're all angels and we're all devils --

right? The trick is to have a big enough heart to love both the romantic,

sweet, sexy guys we are, and the asses we occasionally become.

It ain't easy. But Jamie and Ste show us how: "Dance with me?".

Cya,

 

Mike

*****************************************************

From: David

Subject: Jamie's father

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:15:32 GMT

It's likely that Jamie's father was a criminal, a robber.

At one point in the stage play Sandra hears about a robbery, and says to Jamie that

it might have been his father that did it.

You really need to read the stage play if you want to understand the characters.

There is much in it which is different, or not in the screen play.

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:50:38 -0700 (MST)

From: meso

Subject: Re: Scott and Glen not gay. *sob*

Funny thing I've noticed.

Most of my friends have fallen in love with Ste.

I fell in love with Jaime.

Hmmm......I wonder why everybody goes after Ste?

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:18:19 -0700 (PDT)

From: Michael

Subject: Re: Scott and Glen not gay. *sob*

On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Kane  wrote:

> Kane here again.

>

> I'm just curious, after reading on the Beautiful Thing homepage that Scott

> Neal and Glen Berry are not gay, if anyone else's stomach sunk when they

> found this out? I know mine did, as did my best friend's. I know it

> probably sounds immature, but in a way I sort of fell in love with the

> character of Ste and it was weird to have the whole illusion shattered.

> Hehe. :-)

>

> Silly, maybe, I know - I'm just sharing my thoughts.

>

> ..Kane

>

Yes, I too felt a little depressed upon learning that the gorgeous, talented

young men are straight. On the other hand, I was convinced, so I suppose

that's a sign to excellent acting on the part of Scott and Glen.

I don't know how I feel about the first boy-meets-boy movie being acted

by two straight boys, but I suppose that gay actors have been playing

straight roles for so long now, that turnabout's fair play!

-Michael

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:30:01 -0700 (MST)

From: meso

Subject: Re: Tony's character?

>

> This may be my mind reading something that isn't there, but during

> the scene where Sandra is hitting Jamie, I got the impression that

> Jamie's dad also beat him or Sandra. Just Sandra's reaction when she

> realises what she has done.

>

> Maybe I'm reading to much into it, what do others think.

>

> Leonard

>

>

Actually, no, bc in the balcony scene, when Sandra is teasing Ste

about going boxing with his dad, Jaime shoots back with "Wasn't so funny

when that bloke of yours was beating you, was it?" I don't know if that

"bloke" was Jaime's dad, or if it was a subsequent boyfriend, but it

would indicate that Sandra has been down that road before. And possibly

another reason why she is so fiercely independent. Maybe this could be

the reason why she dumped Tony; she feels she doesn't need a man to

survive, esp after being hit by one.

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:06:25 -0400 (EDT)

From: CARMEN

Subject: Re: (no subject)

 

On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Leonard  wrote:

>Nancy E wrote:

>

> > Hey!!!

> >

> >

> > Does anyone know what movie Jamie is watching at the beginning

> > if the

> > film? Ami I doing this right? Are you all getting my mail?

> > HELP!!!!!!!

> >

> > David

>

> Yes David your mail is getting through.

> If I remember correctly (It's been 8 months since I saw the film) the

> movie was something like "From Here to Eternity".

>

> Any other thoughts on the movie. How many closet 50s movie queens out

> there.

>

> Leonard

>

I *think* it's Called Rosie and Jim...but I may be wrong....I think that's

what's in the credits...admittedly, it's been a few months, :-)

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:08:29 +0200

From: jmcs

Subject: Re: Did they or didn't they?: Interesting thread o

At 02:24 20/06/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Sandra, have you ever thought of taking up a career in writing???

>WOW!!!

>Maybe you could write the Americanized version ;) <G>

>Kevin

<G> Indeed, I have!!

Since I was 7/8 years old I was writing. That´s the only think I´ve ever

wanted to do (besides being an actress), but when I started losing my figure

I assumed nobody would give me a part, so I started writing my own plays.

I´ve written a couple of Star Trek stories and lately (last Saturday night

to be exact) I had a flash. Just like that. I took a sheet of paper and a

pen and I wrote the silliest story ever; I call it 'My personal homage to

Beautiful Thing'. It´s a very short scene. I wanted to send it to the list

but I felt embarrassed so I asked Davie for advice. I sent it to him and

surprisingly, he liked it. Todd read it also and he liked it too!!!

Gee, thanks to you my ego is about to explode! This list IS a jewel.

But I think Jonathan made a great job. An Americanized version is

unnecessary. :)

 

I also want to welcome Kane to the list. You´ll soon discover this´s an

excellent group of people, caring and supportive. I don´t know what I´d do

without them. I need my daily dose of posts, otherwise I can feel really bad.

I love you people! THANK YOU ALL!!

Take care.

 

Sandra.

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:41:55 -0500 (CDT)

From: chakravorty

Subject: Re: Tony's character?

Personally I think that Sandra is a bit mixed up about what the nature of

a good relationship should be. We know that she has previously been

involved with an abusive man and she may have trouble relating to someone

who is genuinely "nice" (ever have that problem? some folks are just

attracted to "bad" boys or girls, I won't speculate on the reasons tho'

others have). I thought that the relationship between Ronald (the guy

from the pub board (?) and Sandra was somewhat telling. Ronald obviously

sets Sandra up by telling her that stupid sexist joke about the barmaids

(clearly she doesn't really find it funny) as a member of the interviewing

committee (I wasn't exactly sure what his role was, but he was present at

the interview) he knew they would ask her the question that he had earlier

posed as a joke), and he laughed pretty heartily when Sandra puts her foot

in it. Later Sandra doesn't seem fazed by it at all. Is she so stupid she

couldn't see what he pulled? She says, "I really fucked up" (and whose

fault was that ?). I know of several women who can't seem to pick up on it

when they are being mentally or emotionally abused; maybe Sandra is so

used to it she expects this kind of thing. On the other hand, Sandra may

be more mercenary than we think? Sandra is pretty mean to Tony when she

says "you've never had to fight for anything". Well, maybe yes. Maybe this

will be Tony's cue to fight for her.

Sandra dumping Tony was for me gratuitous (Sp?). Since BT has been touted

as "an urban fairy tale", why couldn't it have had a happy ending for all

the leads?

(BTW, no one has answered my question about the meaning of "fancy man".

That could put the question of Tony and Sandra's relationship into a

different perspective).

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:22:42 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Tony's character?

I got a post from one of my friends here saying:

> Most straight writers - even very gay-friendly ones - would have

> written that "16 going on 17" scene to _definitely_ involve sex. Hey,

> isn't that what all gay guys do anyway? We know better. :)

I pulled this out of context for a reason - as I posted back to him, my

pastor told me I would be sleeping with a good friend (10 years younger

than myself) just because we were both gay (I told him where to put that

theory!!!) ;) - my point being is that it is so easy for the world to

look at the gay community and condemn homosexuals for sleeping around

when they really have NO CLUE that we sometimes DO have standards and

can JUST SAY NO! - To me, Sandra and Tony struck me as a farce for the

straight community -> "look whose sleeping around with whom." Tony is a

pretty-boy and obviously years younger than Sandra - it is most

blatantly a sexual thing between the two of them as far as she's

concerned (remember the back porch scene - "I can imagine something else

going down me gullet.") Even Jamie tells Tony that as soon as she gets

what she wants from him (ie his being a painter!?! - paint the living

room?!?) she'll dump him - it seems Tony is the only one going into this

thing with blinders on - looking for a long-term thing in what (to me)

seems a blatantly short-time thing! Well, the shoe's on the other foot -

rather than two gay men who are sleeping around for the joy of sex and

end up hurting each other while the straight couple lives happily ever

after - we see that sometimes life can throw you a curve ball - Jamie

and Ste live "happily ever after" and Sandra and Tony...

I hope this doesn't sound too bitter - I just found the whole thing

amusing - it bugged me too that she dumped him, b/c he was/IS such a

nice guy - but isn't that what the "straight world" thinks about us? We

can't see a good thing when we have it standing right in front of us?

M2C (My two cents!),

Kevin

Beautiful-Thing wrote:

>

> > The film version of Tony struck me as a charming, delightful romantic

> > kind of guy - he seems very nurturing and caring, he tries, but

> > ultimately doesn't succeed in providing Sandra with the kind of balance

> and

> > tenderness I for one think she needs.

>

> Please post back with alternative views, but I can't stop thinking that

> Sandra's "dumping" of Tony at the end of the film was a bit of a pity.

>

> Tony, for all his blow (marijuana) -induced light-headedness seems written

> to be an okay kinda fella. He genuinely seems to care about and love his

> adopted family (Sandra and Jamie) and appears to have a heart of gold.

> There's not an ounce of bigot in him and he does TRY. Consequently, I can't

> help but feel for him when Sandra suddenly dumps him at the end of the film

> without ever explaining her reasons. Was it neccessary? What did it

> achieve? What was Harvey trying to say? It just seemed a bit incongruous in

> such a positive film.

>

> Or perhaps Harvey was trying to say that some people (in this case Sandra)

> at some times in their lives do not NEED to be in relationships; instead

> they need to concentrate on other areas of their lives (running the pub)?

> If so, I think that's a pretty valid point to make. Or do you think the

> break-up is just a sobering counterbalance to all the idealisation of love

> in the Jamie+Ste bits? After all, sometimes even the best of relationships

> don't work out.

> After years together will Jamie end up a victim of domestic violence,

> perpetrated by the once-abused Ste?

>

> What do others think?

>

> While the film concentrates on idealising - and dare I say (positively)

> propagandising - on the love between Jamie & Ste, I feel that positive

> message is a tad compromised by Tony & Sandra's breakup.

>

> However, I'd get over it pretty damn quickly if Jamie gave me a peppermint

> foot lotion backrub.

>

> Still, it's a fantastic film and I love it to death. Glen Berry and Scott

> Neal are so totally believable in their roles. Their bravery in taking on

> such roles is admirable and their ability to make the characters so

> believable and lovable is a testament to their acting abilities. Here's

> hoping they're around for many celluloid years to come.

>

> What about a sequel, Johnathan?

>

> Iain

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:58:13 -0400

From: J W

Subject: Email vs. Newsgroups

Is this list great or what?? :-)

On Monday, I only had 9 messages and a bunch of that traffic about moving

over to the newsgroup. I haven't figured newsgroups out yet, so I was kind

of bummed out about losing touch with my BT friends.

Then on Thursday evening, I downloaded 108 messages!!!! I guess I'm not the

only one who relies on the BT list to stay in touch. I don't know much

about newsgroups, but can it be better than this list? Yes, there is a lot

of personal traffic that could go direct to the recipient, but the postings

about BT are awesome.

Anyway, I downloaded my email onto a disk and took it to work. It took me 2

hours to read all 108 messages. What an awe inspiring, beautiful thing to

follow the discussion. I am lucky to count myself in the company of such

Beautiful people. To follow the discussion about whether "did they or

didn't they" was amazing. What insight? :-o)

I recorded the audio portion of BT onto a cassette and listen it driving

back and forth to work. It is amazing how much more you get out of the

movie when you can only listen to it.

An example: Jamie's answering "yeah" to Sandra's first three questions

after the Gloucester.

S: Had a nice night?

J: Yeah (this one is with enthusiasm, he's still "high" from the

Gloucester, Abbey Wood and Ste).

S: Go pictures?

J: Yeah (this one is matter of fact, but it's a lie; something that comes

easy and almost naturally for too long.)

S: What, with Ste?

J: Yeah. (The screenplay has "guarded" next to this one; Jamie knows that

the barriers need to start going up; "She's on to something." "I have to

watch out because she may find out I'm gay." "I have to get out of this!"

There are many more examples, but this one comes to mind because I can

relate to it very easily.

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:52:52 -0700 (MST)

From: meso

Subject: Tony, Sandra, Jaime, & Ste.

I've been thinking on the two relationships in this movie. It seems as

if Jonathan Harvey is comparing the two, playing off each other. The two

start at about the same time (Jaime asks Tony where he met his mom near

the beginning). It is interesting how the two begin, where you think

they would go, and how they actually end up.

If you examine things at face value, one would think Sandra's

relationship would succeed over Jaime's. Sandra is older (35 years), and

is hetero. Her relations with men are not looked down on by society,

they are viewed as natural. She has also had experience in

relationships, and is more likely to know how to make things work.

Jaime, on the other hand, is young, and probably doesn't have much

experience with relationships. He has no idea how to make things work,

bc of this lack of experience. He is also gay, which means his relations

with men are looked down upon. Also, he really doesn't have any role

models for building relationships with someone he loves.

So, on the fce of it, Sandra and Tony are much more likely to succeed

than Jaime and Ste. But by the end of the movie, Tony and Sandra have

fallen apart (well, bc Sandra dumped Tony), while Jaime and Ste are busy

proclaiming their love for each other in front of the entire complex.

Sandra and Tony fell apart bc Sandra couldn't open herself open to

intimacy and being vunerable. Jaime and Ste work, for just that reason:

they can open themselves up to each other.

It's kinda like Jonathan is telling us it doesn't matter who you love,

it matters how you love them. There also seem to be other conclusions to

be drawn here, but at the moment I'm fumbling over words, and can't think

of what to say. Draw your own conclusions.....

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:27:52 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: website suggestion....

Yo, Will,

both of my down-stairs neighbors are DJ/VJ's (one here in CT - the other

in the city (NY)) - I will print this note out to them and see where we

can go from there - great idea! (but then again, I'm no DJ either -

maybe they'll both shoot me in my sleep for the suggestion!) ;)

Kevin

____________________

Beautiful-Thing wrote:

>

> Hey, if it's possible, is there a way that you could make an addition

> to the sound clips part of the site? I think it'd be excellent if the

> part where Louise is talking about how she's "gonna be dripping with money

> one of these days" could be there. It's hilarious!

> On another note, I had an idea the other day. Are any of you familiar

> with the British sitcom "Absolutely Fabulous"? It's a great show. Well,

> anyway, there is a DJ who has taken a couple of sound bits from that show

> and turned them into two really great dance records. And I was thinking

> it'd be really cool if a DJ or the like did that with BT. There are so

> many great little lines in that movie that would fit. It could start out

> with the part about Mrs. Chauhan yelling "Balls Mr. Bennett", and take off

> into a great groovy tune, with Jaime talking about how 's a queer, a

> bender, and all that, the pub guy with the line "the bird with the biggest

> tits, Louise's part about what she'd do with the money, and of course the

> lines from the lake scene would have to be included. And suddenly the

> music would stop, Jaime would say "I'm happy when I'm with you" there'd be

> a momentary pause, and then the music would take off again. And it could

> end with Mrs. Chauhan saying "Less fucking and more attention please" or

> something like that. If I had the know how, I'd do it, but I'm not a

> DJ, so.....

*****************************************************

From: David

Subject: News-group versus Email-list

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:31:21 GMT

Okay, here's why the newsgroup is far and away better than the email list.

If for any reason my PCs die, or I lose the hard disk, or they are stolen, the list

disappears. I might be away on business, on vacation, ill. No-one but me can fix it.

I don't mind co-ordinating, but I don't want the responsibility that is now attached

to ensuring the list runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Most of what people are discussing in the list can be discussed on the news-group.

The volume of articles to the list is getting out of hand again, and people are

unsubscribing - remember, you don't have much choice about collecting email, but with

news you do.

I'll give the situation another two weeks to calm down. If by then it is still

receiving large numbers of articles that should be on the news-group I will turn it

into a MODERATED list - meaning I have to approve each article before it can be

distributed.

I'm not trying to be harsh here, I'm trying to ensure the continuation of a valuable

resource even if I can't give it my atttention.

If you have problems with news, try using Deja News at www.dejanews.com. Currently

they are not carrying alt.movies.beautiful-thing.

Write to comment@dejanews.com and ask them to take the group... here's my own

request, you might like to copy it.

On behalf of many fans of the movie Beautiful Thing who would like to use the

DejaNews service to follow the alt.movies.beautiful-thing group, is it possible you

could add it to the list of groups you index?

 

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:22:12 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Scott and Glen not gay. *sob*

Thank you, Will - I was beginning to think I was the only one (to fall

for Jamie, I mean) - Ok, Ste was cute and cuddly - but Jamie was much

more real - the guy I'd like to want to give me a peppermint foot

massage! ;)

Kevin

___________

 

beautiful-thing wrote:

>

> Funny thing I've noticed.

> Most of my friends have fallen in love with Ste.

> I fell in love with Jaime.

> Hmmm......I wonder why everybody goes after Ste?

>

*****************************************************

From: David

Subject: USA movie release celebration

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:43:19 GMT

On October 11/12th friends and fans from the USA and elsewhere will meet in

Greenwich, London, UK, to celebrate the 1st anniversary of the movies release in the

USA by Sony Pictures Classics.

For more information on the two-day schedule, and to reserve your place, see the

Events page on the web.

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: Rick

Subject: Who are they REALLY?

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:58:09 -0700

I enjoyed reading the Web page transcript of Ben's (Tony's) recent

online chat. What a kick! Someone mentioned Scott and Glen are not at

all like the characters they play. I'd love to hear more about the

actors and their natural personalities. Those of you who have met

Scott and Glen... how would you describe them?

__________________________

Rick

*****************************************************

From: Todd

Subject: New to list

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:33:11 -0400

Hello everyone,

First off, let me just say how thankful I am for this E-mail list. I finally got to see Beautiful Thing

on video after waiting for months and months. I saw it, loved it and proceeded to watch it five times in six days.

I can't stop thinking about. I've purchased the soundtrack, ordered the screenplay and inquired about buying

the video and the American movie poster. Does that make me obsessive? Has anyone else been affected

by the film in this way?

As for the topics discussed on this list, they are all things that I've been thinking about and I am glad there is

a forum for our thoughts and opinions.

Now, about the current topics:

-- I think Sandra broke up with Tony because she knew it wouldn't be good for him. She is a

woman with a lot of things to sort out. Her son just came out. His boyfriend is an abused child.

She is going to be managing her own pub. She knew that these were her problems to solve and

that it wouldn't be right to dump on Tony, also. She loved him and was upset when she made him

leave (just check out the look on her face) But she knew it was the best for both of them. She

didn't want to burden him. Also, she is fiercely independant and would much rather sort these

things out herself. As for the future, I can see her working through these changes in her life,

then contacting Tony and possibly reuniting with him.

-- What Ste and Jamie probably did that night was just explore what it's like to be with another person.

They probably kissed and touched and engaged in some heavy petting, but I think that's about all.

-- About Scott and Glen being straight, all I can say is "Damn! Why do all the good ones have

to be straight?" Still, I commend both of them for giving such incisive portrayals that didn't stereotype

in any way. That is the sign of true talent and I look forward to seeing more of their work.

(Plus, Scott can E-mail me anytime he wants)

Now, I pose a question to the rest of the list. Since I'm new, this might have been discussed

before. Sorry if it has.

Do you think Sandra is going to take Ste with her and Jamie when they move to the Anchor? I

think she is. But I'd love to hear what other people think.

Love and gratitude to all,

Todd

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:15:19 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Ben Daniels online

Thanks for sharing that nite - it was great!!!

Kevin

_________________________________________

beautiful-thing wrote:

>

> In case you didn't know already, Ben Daniels, who played Tony, was on the IRC channel

> with us Thursday night and spent a fun hour chatting.

>

> The log of the conversation is on the web site. You'll find it from the new

> 'Interviews' link.

>

> Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: Spank

Subject: Re: Falling for Ste

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:38:33 +1000

 

>On Saturday 21 June 1997 6:50 Will

wrote:

> Funny thing I've noticed.

> Most of my friends have fallen in love with Ste.

> I fell in love with Jaime.

> Hmmm......I wonder why everybody goes after Ste?

No <feigned outrage>! I fell for Jamie rather than Ste. He's softer,

gentler, more intuitive and unafraid of his emotions. He's also really cute

and sexy in a way which isn't "model-like". Cripes! If everyone on the

planet only found media-endorsed TYPES attractive, the only people with a

love life would be Brad Pitt and Sherilyn Fenn.

To use some slightly outdated terminologies: Ste conforms to a "butch"

character, while Jamie conforms more towards the "femme", although neither

is an outrageous stereotype - much again to Harvey's credit. From personal

experience, I've found most people are neither "butch" nor "femme" when you

move beyond their veneer ... they're just human. Butch and Femme are just

the "drag" people wear in their day-to-day lives. People are people.

However, a friend of mine once went to a counsellor when he was having

trouble coming to terms with his sexuality. The friend is into football,

bands and beer & is about as blokey as you can get. On the inside, though,

he's a pussycat, a gentle, loving and sadly lonely guy. He asked the

cousellor (working at our local Gay and lesbian Health Service) how he

could just find an ordinary "blokey" kinda guy like himself.

The counsellor said: "If I had a dollar for every time I'd been asked that

question, I'd be a very rich man".

I think Ste represents that kind of ordinary, working class blokiness (I

don't know if there's an American equivalent for the word 'bloke' for

American readers - it's common in UK & Australia) that appeals to many gay

people.

Oh, dissonance may be bliss, but there's nowt wrong with a bit of 'armony.

Iain

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