Email Archive Page 35

From: Todd

Subject: Re: Switching to the news-group....Sorry, guys, but we have too!

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:51:21 -0400

I really wish this wouldn't happen. My ISP started to care the group, but

for one reason or another, it got dropped. Just as well I guess cause

nothing was being updated for the group.

Feeling left out,

Todd

> From: CARMEN

> Subject: Switching to the news-group....Sorry, guys, but we have too!

> Date: Saturday, June 21, 1997 6:31 PM

>

> I have to agree with Davie's reasons for asking us to switch to the

> newsgroup....The mail is just getting out of hand for e-mail...

> I'm going to ask all of our "regulars" and everyone else as well to

switch

> all postings and replies, even to stuff you originally see on the list,

to

> the newsgroup...

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:09:12 -0400 (EDT)

From: HeadDr

Subject: Re: American Movie Poster?

I have the American Poster!!! Ste and Jamie are dancing. Ste has on

sunglasses (Ugggggggggg!!!!!) I had to order it from a company in Canada.

If you need the address let me know...

JIM

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:24:54 -0700

From: Adam

Subject: Re: Did they or didn't they?: Interesting thread on new-sgroup

...Interesting concept, one that I have never thought about, the fact

whether I mentally prepared for my first tme with a man or not. Foe me

I would say that I dreamed and fantisied about it alot, but when it

actually happened I found out that I wasn't prepared to deal with it,

and I ended up feeling very confused...all in all it took me almost 4

months to sort it all out, of course there was other stuff going on in

my life, both school ,and other personal problems, which I look back and

wonder if they stemed from this, containing of all my emotions. When I

was first with another man, there was no emotional involvement, but

moreover just physical, afterwards I felt really confused and weirded

out, I actually thought at that time that I might be srt8. For the next

four months I had severe depression, which alomost ended my life, but I

was able to pull myself out of it with the help of friends. After this

breakdown of sorts I finally started to realize that I was gay, and that

sex wasn't the only thing about being gay. It took me quite a while and

frankly, I think I would have rather gone through the discovery before

the hands on experience. Now of course I am doing alot better, esp.

since I became a part of this list and started hanging out on the IRC

channel. And I also just wanted to pass along to you all how much I

have enjoyed this group of friends that I have made, and I hope that you

all stay on the list and keep in contact!! well nuff of me and my sob

story...hehehehe

Love ya all!

Adam

--

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 02:59:47 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: which category

I'd have to say I fall in the same category - I used to fantasize about

it alot too - but when I went off to college, I wasn't prepared for my

brother's high school friend to "proposition" me - I "freaked" and

thanked him that he was interested in me but told him I didn't have the

same feelings (what was I thinking???) - I saw him on and off again over

the next few years - but 5 years later - met him in DC at a music

educators convention where we finally talked about everything - he found

out how interested in him I was and I found out he found religion and

lost interest in me (but didn't want to be alone with me...just in case)

;)

Kevin

______

> ----------

> > From: Keith

> > Subject: Re: Did they or didn't they?: Interesting thread on

> new-sgroup-Reply

> > Date: Saturday, June 21, 1997 11:30 AM

> >

> >

> > Just out of curiosity, how many on the list fall into each category?

> >

> > Keith

>

> You have to make a new category for me. My first time was one of my

> friends friend who came to visit him at college. The two of us ended up

> hanging out a lot because our friend had football practice and we became

> good friends. I fantasized about him, but when he made the move, I froze!

> I was scared shitless! I wish I hadn't been cause I would have been able

> to see just how much he liked me and wanted to be with me. He went back to

> Texas and I was so disappointed to see him go. That was 10 years ago. And

> to my astonishment, we are still great friends.

>

> Todd

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:08:04 -0700 (MST)

From: mesocyclone

Subject: Re: Switching to the news-group....Sorry, guys, but we have too!

 

Okay, so we have to. I'm clueless. How do you use a newsgroup? Where

do I find one? Oh, if this helps any, please keep in mind that I am on a

University server.

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:18:54 -0700 (MST)

From: mesocyclone

Subject: Before or after thought?

Well, I know I thought about it a lot before it happened, and I plenned

it all out (unfortunately, it happened the way I wanted it to, which

given the circumstances, wasn't such a brilliant idea). I freaked out

during the act, and ended it. But I was okay with it very soon

afterward. I've never really had that much guilt about it. I wish

sometimes (well, quite frequently actually) that I hadn't gone about it

the way that I had, but that never had anything to do with the fact that

it was with another man, except for that first time.

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:10:38 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Switching to the news-group....Sorry, guys, but we

Tory - thanks for the offer of helping us (without the newsgroup) out -

I am going to be relying on you guys (M&F) to relay what's going on -

until I can convince my ISP to add the newsgroup on!!!

Thanks again,

Kevin

>

> I have to agree with Davie's reasons for asking us to switch to the

> newsgroup....The mail is just getting out of hand for e-mail...

> I'm going to ask all of our "regulars" and everyone else as well to switch

> all postings and replies, even to stuff you originally see on the list, to

> the newsgroup...

> If anyone has a problem with accesing the group contact some one who

> does have access...like me, and we'll see what we can do about sending you

> stuff from the news-group, and posting your replies for you.

> The list just can't continue the way it has lately....it's unfortunate,

> but it's true...

> Now, if folks can send me e's about whether or not their willing to help

> out people with out Newsgroup access, and also about not having access,

> I'll do what I can to sort it all out...

>

> To help those without Newsgroup access...I'd like to ask everyone to folow

> up Davie's suggestion about writing to Deja-news...eve if their own ISP

> provides alt.movies.beautiful-thing. I've used Davie's message, but with

> a couple of additions...feel free to use it, but extra personal bits won't

> hurt!

> :-)

> See you on the news-group!

> Tory

>

> On behalf of many fans of the movie Beautiful Thing who would like to

> use the

> DejaNews service to follow the alt.movies.beautiful-thing group, is it

> possible you

> could add it to the list of groups you index?

>

> We are attempting to get this news-group off the ground as a viable

> alternative to an e-mail list that is simply getting out of hand

> volume-wise, however, many list members are finding it difficult to obt$

> through their ISP's. It is our hope that making it available through a

> public news service such as Deja-News will make it more readily availab$

> to the public that wants it so desperately.

>

> I'd like to thank you in advance for adding it to your database.

>

> Tory

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:24:05 -0400 (EDT)

From: HeadDr

Subject: Ste's and Jamie's abusive relationship (OH, MY GAWD, WHO BROUGHT THIS UP!!!)

:)

This is something that I really do not like to think about but since you

brought it up...

Oh, and by the way, I commented on the Newsgroup about this, so if you read

this then <press delete>.

DON'T SEND ME HATE MAIL FOR WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY!!

Actually, statistics support that Ste will be abusive in his relationships.

He comes from a family that shows nothing but violence, so it is only

logical that he mimics what he has been subjected to over the years.

However, most children from abusive families have a tendency to be angry and

confrontational. Ste does not emit these qualities. As for Jamie,

staying... Yes, I think he would. Despite his strong will, he is so much in

love with Ste... He will think that if he stands by him; he will change.

Which of course, will not happen.. (PS. Ste, if ya need a good therapist,

let me know!!)

CAN I SAY THIS... I am having the worse trouble with the newsgroup and

unfortunatley, I think the majority of the problem is user originated. I

mean on the IRC atleast the nice folks from BT put up with my lack of

knowledge!!! lol

Talk to ya later...

Jim

*****************************************************

From: Todd

Subject: RE: American Movie Poster?

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:35:31 -0400

Thanks for the info. Is it sort of like the Soundtrack cover? I don't particularly

like that one. Have you seen the Sony Pictures Classics page? They

have one on there that doesn't seem to be a real poster. It sure looks

like one to me. I guess I'll have to E-mail them or something.

----------

From: HeadDr

Sent: Sunday, June 22, 1997 5:04 PM

Subject: Re: American Movie Poster?

I have the American Poster!!! Ste and Jamie are dancing. Ste has on

sunglasses (Ugggggggggg!!!!!) I had to order it from a company in Canada.

If you need the address let me know...

JIM

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:22:31 -0800

From: Mike

Subject: News-group versus Email-list

Dear Davie and BTlist friends,

There was a lot of email piled up from over the weekend. I was going

through it piece by piece. When I got to Davie's post RE the News-group, I

sent him an email which I cc'd to Jay and Clem -- please see below.

------------------>

At 2:31 AM +0000 6/21/97, David  wrote:

> If by then it is still

>receiving large numbers of articles that should be on the news-group I

>will turn it

>into a MODERATED list - meaning I have to approve each article before it

>can be

>distributed.

>

Davie,

You couldn't POSSIBLY moderate this list! You'd have to read each and every

post to decide whether to approve it or not. You'd never get anything else

done! It would slow everything down AND you'd have to deal with some

pissed off folks who's email you rejected.

Clearly, for whatever reason(s), the list participants don't want to move

to the newsgroup. I say, lets honor the integrity of that impulse. There is

so much wonderful stuff happening here, it goes way beyond the movie

itself. The movie is the catalyst, the energy that people are sharing in

this forum is real and genuine!

I'm afraid if you DO try to moderate the list you'll break it. Not

intentionally, I know. But this energy is a fragile thing and needs to be

tended and facilitated. I have the time, energy and resources for some of

that.

I know you don't want to let go of the list, but I'm willing to foot the

bill (at least to begin with) to set it up in both regular and digest mode

on the sirius.com server in San Francisco. I've made this offer before. As

I said, if you'd prefer to remain in control, we can arrange that. I'll be

the owner of the list (as it is my account) but give you the pass word and

let you do the configuring from your end--it's all done via a web browser.

We could even share that responsibility should the need arise.

The only problem we might have is the cost of the list. Basic lists _with

digests_ are $10 a month; if the volume of mail gets excessive it goes up

(I forget what the cut off figure is) but even so, I bet we could take up a

collection to pay for the list with no problem at all.

If you want, I'll take on the responsibility of broaching all this to the

list participants.

 

PS, I'm sharing this with Jay and Clem as they are the two people I know

personally and I know you've talked with Jay. I'd like their input on this.

MW>

<------------------------

Now that I've gotten further down and see Davie has gone ahead and

"moderated" the list, I've decided to share this email with you -- as you

folks have posted to the BTlist in the recent past. (Please forgive me if

I've missed someone. If you notice someone missing, please forward this to

them. Also, pardon me if I've put anyone in more than once.)

I want to keep the BTlist alive and I,m concerned Davie may not be able to

do that. I have suggested twice in the past that Davie allow me to put the

list -- including a digest mode alternative -- on my ISP's server. Davie

has recommended we leave things as they are and out of respect for him

I've gone along with that.

But now I've become very concerned. I feel this list is too important to

loose. The biggest draw back to my recommendation is someone (besides Davie

who has handled the whole thing all by himself so far) will have to PAY for

a list on another server.

What do you guys think about this??

 

 

 

 

 

Mike

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:08:42 -0400

From: Eric

Subject: Re: American Movie Poster?

At 12:09 AM 6/22/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I have the American Poster!!! Ste and Jamie are dancing. Ste has on

>sunglasses (Ugggggggggg!!!!!) I had to order it from a company in Canada.

> If you need the address let me know...

>

>JIM

I'd love that address, Jim.

-Eric

*****************************************************

From: "Brod,

Subject: This is great.... but....

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:24:24 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

Dear friends,

it's been fun, but I can't handle the volume of mail and my

account reaches quota everyday which is causing problems...

how do I unsubscribe? will somene please take a second and

e-mail me personally and let me know? I am not all tha

computer literate (then again, I made it onto the list ok!)

Thanks in advance.

brandon

P.S.- however, if anyone is looking for a pen pal I'm

interested.... I am a 22 year old college senior in

virginia, gay male, I loved "Beautiful Thing", I'm into

soccer, politics, music (New Order, Alphaville, Moby,

Nirvana, etc) and am *just* looking for new friends and

cool conversation after finally realizing that theres got

to be a lot more to life AND to being gay then simply

trying to look perfect and ne like everyone else.... etc

etc (this half-hearted description of me ISNT a shopping

list or anything, write if you're interested in a fairly

consistent pen pal and I promise to write back...)

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:38:26 -0500

From: Fontenot

Subject: No more mail?

No more mail, eh? Looks like it's back to serious depression for me....

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:58:50 -0400

From: Eric

Subject: Re: You are all loved

At 12:32 PM 6/21/97 -0000, you wrote:

>Erik,

>That was adorable!

Hi John,

Glad you liked it (I didn't create it though -- I haven't the time or

patience!)

-Eric

*****************************************************

From: CARMEN

Subject: btannounce

For all of you who tried to join btannounce and failed...you have to send

a message to

 

with the first line

Join btannounce

FTList doesn't recognise "subscribe" as a valid command....it's only a

computer program....:-)

Davie's been getting prety swamped with list stuff lately, so we've got to

be willing to take some of this off his back, and fix things ourselves...

anyways...enjoy!

Tory

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:41:24 -0400

From: Eric

Subject: Re: Scott and Glen not gay. *sob*

At 01:50 PM 6/20/97 -0700, you wrote:

> Funny thing I've noticed.

> Most of my friends have fallen in love with Ste.

> I fell in love with Jaime.

> Hmmm......I wonder why everybody goes after Ste?

 

Now that's interesting, 'cause I've noticed that too! I also was most

attracted to Ste the first few times I saw the film. After I watched it

more (like 20 times!) I now find Jamie every bit as attractive.

However, I think the fact that Ste was getting beat up a lot makes his

character more attractive -- brings out the "Mothering" instincts in all of

us. We *want* to hold him and tell him everything's alright. I did/do anyway.

On the other hand, the drag queen at the Gloucester wants 10 of Ste and

"only" two of Jamie.

Go figure.

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:49:18 -0700

From: "Justin

Subject: Re: News-group versus Email-list

 

Mike

I personally don't want to see Davie get burnt out on reading emails 24

hours a day. It's consuming his life and I'm afraid he will reach a point

where he will give up. I would do anything to help keep this list alive

and kickin. If another server is the answer, so be it. I'll email you

again when I have a break from work to give you a couple ideas. Those are

my brief thoughts right now.

Justin

-----------------------------------------------------------

>Now that I've gotten further down and see Davie has gone ahead and

>"moderated" the list, I've decided to share this email with you -- as you

>folks have posted to the BTlist in the recent past. (Please forgive me if

>I've missed someone. If you notice someone missing, please forward this to

>them. Also, pardon me if I've put anyone in more than once.)

>

>I want to keep the BTlist alive and I,m concerned Davie may not be able to

>do that. I have suggested twice in the past that Davie allow me to put the

>list -- including a digest mode alternative -- on my ISP's server. Davie

>has recommended we leave things as they are and out of respect for him

>I've gone along with that.

>

>But now I've become very concerned. I feel this list is too important to

>loose. The biggest draw back to my recommendation is someone (besides Davie

>who has handled the whole thing all by himself so far) will have to PAY for

>a list on another server.

>

>What do you guys think about this??

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Mike

>

>

>

Justin

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:27:32 -0400

From: Eric

Subject: Ste Straight

Did any of you think that Ste was straight? I must say that the first two

times I saw the film I was convinced of it.

I think Jamie was the first person who ever was loving to Ste, and needing

that very badly, Ste responded by getting emotionally attached to Jamie.

On THE night, notice Ste's face in bed before he turns around to a head to

head position with Jamie. He's thinking very intently about what to do.

It's a difficult decision, but he makes it. I think he does that totally

for Jamie's benefit. Yes, the massage felt *very* good, but he doesn't want

Jamie to even know that.

I think he finally gives in and turns 'round because he "owes" Jamie for

being so nice to him. The next morning, Ste's face looks, well, disgusted.

He actually grimaces when he wakes up and looks at Jamie. Then he avoids

Jamie for a week.

I think Ste absolutely loves Jamie, and then figures, based on that, that

he actually IS Gay, and confuses loving Jamie with being Gay. I mean,

Straight men can love each other -- you don't have to be Gay (though they

don't *usually* have sex with each other!).

Now, I don't expect anyone to agree with this idea, I just wondered if

anyone else read that in. I have read both the play and the screenplay, and

this idea of mine is NOT present in either. I got the idea purely from the

subtext (real or imagined) of how Scott Neal played the character.

Comments?

BTW, I would have posted this to the newsgroup. My ISP carries it, but

there are almost no messages in it, and the ones that are seem to be

cross-postings of off-subject material! In other words, it doesn't seem to

be working properly yet.

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:31:02 -0500

From: JOE

Subject: Re: Scott and Glen not gay. *sob*

Eric wrote:

>

> At 01:50 PM 6/20/97 -0700, you wrote:

> > Funny thing I've noticed.

> > Most of my friends have fallen in love with Ste.

> > I fell in love with Jaime.

> > Hmmm......I wonder why everybody goes after Ste?

>

> Now that's interesting, 'cause I've noticed that too! I also was most

> attracted to Ste the first few times I saw the film. After I watched it

> more (like 20 times!) I now find Jamie every bit as attractive.

>

> However, I think the fact that Ste was getting beat up a lot makes his

> character more attractive -- brings out the "Mothering" instincts in all of

> us. We *want* to hold him and tell him everything's alright. I did/do anyway.

I think the boys' backgrounds may cause some of the different view

reaction. I too would want to "comfort" and encourage Ste because I'd

come at the relationship more from Jamie's perspective. Despite the

problems in Jamie's life, his self-esteem and self-concept are much

stronger than Ste's.

Gary

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:40:51 -0700

From: Adam

Subject: Re: News-group versus Email-list

Ok guys here's my two cents worth..I have been stewing over this for a

bit and have been thinking alot. I agree with mike I have enjoyed the

list way too much just to let it disappear, so I too was trying to

figure out a way to save it. I will admit upfront I don't know the

first thing about running list etc, but I plan on learning. Right now

my brother is out of town, so I cannot confirm this as of yet but here

is my idea. A couple of years ago my brother opeed up his own isp.

Along with that he place a server i think not sure on the details, but a

server who's sole purpose was to redirect mail for him and I, and also

to have some web pages on it. He registered a name, and that's what we

use. ie I have a seconadary email account that gets forwarded it's

My brother alan registered laird.net, and for the most

part, *I think* the machine just sits there. Soooooo When he gets back,

I will check on the possibilty of running a listserv. Tje biggest

advantage of doing it on his server, is that I or no one else will ever

have to pay a cent, and it should be around for quite some time. :) So

I will check into it, lemme know what oyu think!!! Stay in touch

too!!!:):)

Love Ya! Adam

--

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:07:25 -0400

From: Eric

Subject: RE: American Movie Poster?

 

The American BT Movie poster looks exactly like the US CD cover. It uses

the words "BEAUTIFUL THING" in bold lettering as a backdrop about 10 or

more times in a pale blue color. One of them near the top is in purple, so

you can read it. In the center of the poster is a full length shot of the

boys dancing, with sunglasses on.

The one on the Sony website was NOT the one that was in the theatre that I

went to, it was as I have described above. Perhaps they used two designs in

the US.

I too am looking for one, with no luck -- yet!

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:07:22 -0700

To: Adam

Subject: Re: News-group versus Email-list

I think that would be good. I am waiting for a reply from one of the guys

here to see if I can just dedicate a server (of which I own in the first

place) to do what I want with. If it turns out that that goes through then

the server could be placed on our backbone and anything could be done with it.

Justin

-----------------------------------------------------------

At 10:40 AM 6/23/97 -0700, Adam  wrote:

>Ok guys here's my two cents worth..I have been stewing over this for a

>bit and have been thinking alot. I agree with mike I have enjoyed the

>list way too much just to let it disappear, so I too was trying to

>figure out a way to save it. I will admit upfront I don't know the

>first thing about running list etc, but I plan on learning. Right now

>my brother is out of town, so I cannot confirm this as of yet but here

>is my idea. A couple of years ago my brother opeed up his own isp.

>Along with that he place a server i think not sure on the details, but a

>server who's sole purpose was to redirect mail for him and I, and also

>to have some web pages on it. He registered a name, and that's what we

>use. ie I have a seconadary email account that gets forwarded it's

> My brother alan registered laird.net, and for the most

>part, *I think* the machine just sits there. Soooooo When he gets back,

>I will check on the possibilty of running a listserv. Tje biggest

>advantage of doing it on his server, is that I or no one else will ever

>have to pay a cent, and it should be around for quite some time. :) So

>I will check into it, lemme know what oyu think!!! Stay in touch

>too!!!:):)

>Love Ya! Adam

>

>--

>

Justin

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:51:17 -0500 (CDT)

From: chakravorty

Subject: Re: Ste's and Jamie's abusive relationship (OH, MY GAWD, WHO BROUGHT THIS UP!!!)

Actually, statistics only support the view that compared to

individuals from non-abusive family environments, individuals

who have grown up in violent environments have a greater liklihood

of themselves behaving violently - it does not mean that they will

invariably do so, or even that a majority will do. There are many, many

mediators ( that is, other factors that can increase or decrease these

liklihoods) of violent behavior. As far as we know neither Ste nor Jamie

have ever acted out any of the violence they have witnessed or

experienced - on the contrary, both seem fairly sensitive to others

(certainly Jamie is).

Jamie reminds me a little of a high school friend of mine who is heavily

into S&M these days (on the M side). He was mercilessly ridiculed by the

general population of guys for a variety of reasons (fat, glasses,

efeminate, immature, bad skin, you name it - he had it). As luck and life

would have it ten years after high school (thanks to late but great growth

genes, Weight Watchers International, contact lenses, constant work-outs

and becoming a corporate attorney with a salary to support his new found

fashion sense) my friend looked FANTASTIC and carried himself with style (

although he spent most of our reunion checking out his former tormentors (

many of them my former tormentors as well, but that's a different story)

and gleefully describing how fat, bald, or just plain ugly they had

become) and was certainly not the kind of guy anyone could push around

socially or intellectually. Nonetheless, he is very turned on by men

treating him like shit and becoming violent with him in sexual situations.

I can't help but speculate on what role his past played in shaping this

preference. I could see Ste developing a taste for this sort of sexual

relationship; but this does not mean that he or Jamie (assuming the two of

them were together) would let this aspect of the relationship carry over

into other areas.

Thoughts, comments?

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:47:32 -0400 (EDT)

From: Joe

Subject: Remove my name from list

Please, remove me from the list.

Thanks.

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:44:39 -0700

From: Adam

Subject: Re: Soundtrack and other stuff!

Heya jase didn't have time to actually send the pcs yer way before work,

but here's where you cans ee more of my smiling face!!:):)

 

ok bye!

hugs, Adam

--

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:01:00 -0400 (EDT)

From: Todd

Subject: Re: Scott and Glen not gay. *sob*

I just thought Jamie was so adorable. And I hope it doesn't hurt anyone's

ego, but still think Glen is cuter than Scott.

Todd

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, JOE wrote:

> Eric  wrote:

> >

> > At 01:50 PM 6/20/97 -0700, you wrote:

> > > Funny thing I've noticed.

> > > Most of my friends have fallen in love with Ste.

> > > I fell in love with Jaime.

> > > Hmmm......I wonder why everybody goes after Ste?

> >

> > Now that's interesting, 'cause I've noticed that too! I also was most

> > attracted to Ste the first few times I saw the film. After I watched it

> > more (like 20 times!) I now find Jamie every bit as attractive.

> >

> > However, I think the fact that Ste was getting beat up a lot makes his

> > character more attractive -- brings out the "Mothering" instincts in all of

> > us. We *want* to hold him and tell him everything's alright. I did/do anyway.

>

> I think the boys' backgrounds may cause some of the different view

> reaction. I too would want to "comfort" and encourage Ste because I'd

> come at the relationship more from Jamie's perspective. Despite the

> problems in Jamie's life, his self-esteem and self-concept are much

> stronger than Ste's.

>

> Gary

>

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:19:38 -0500 (CDT)

From: sean

Subject: Re: Ste Straight

I thought his reactions were based on fear and uncertainty, not that he

was really straight and then turned around, I am sure a lot of us had

those looks the first time we realized that we loved a man (or whatever0

and how scared we were for people to find out..even the man we loved...it

is a typical closeted reaction...I think you are trying to analize the

movie too much, however it is an interesting theory that draws up plenty

of questions.

Sean

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Eric  wrote:

> Did any of you think that Ste was straight? I must say that the first two

> times I saw the film I was convinced of it.

>

> I think Jamie was the first person who ever was loving to Ste, and needing

> that very badly, Ste responded by getting emotionally attached to Jamie.

>

> On THE night, notice Ste's face in bed before he turns around to a head to

> head position with Jamie. He's thinking very intently about what to do.

> It's a difficult decision, but he makes it. I think he does that totally

> for Jamie's benefit. Yes, the massage felt *very* good, but he doesn't want

> Jamie to even know that.

>

> I think he finally gives in and turns 'round because he "owes" Jamie for

> being so nice to him. The next morning, Ste's face looks, well, disgusted.

> He actually grimaces when he wakes up and looks at Jamie. Then he avoids

> Jamie for a week.

>

> I think Ste absolutely loves Jamie, and then figures, based on that, that

> he actually IS Gay, and confuses loving Jamie with being Gay. I mean,

> Straight men can love each other -- you don't have to be Gay (though they

> don't *usually* have sex with each other!).

>

> Now, I don't expect anyone to agree with this idea, I just wondered if

> anyone else read that in. I have read both the play and the screenplay, and

> this idea of mine is NOT present in either. I got the idea purely from the

> subtext (real or imagined) of how Scott Neal played the character.

>

> Comments?

>

> BTW, I would have posted this to the newsgroup. My ISP carries it, but

> there are almost no messages in it, and the ones that are seem to be

> cross-postings of off-subject material! In other words, it doesn't seem to

> be working properly yet.

>

> -Eric

>

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:07:16 -0400 (EDT)

From: Todd

Subject: Re: Ste Straight

I didn't think that at all. Ste gives Jamie this look throughout the

movie that is the kind of look you give someone you are attracted too:

adorable and sweet. I just think Ste didn't want the label of being gay.

He is the macho type that has a very negative connotation to being gay. I

think Jamie has studied himself more and has though a lot about his

feelings for guys, especially Ste. The look on Ste's face before he turns

around is a lot like the look Jamie makes before commiting to that first

kiss. "Do I dare? Will I frighten him?" But I think Ste wanted Jamie to

kiss him or whatnot, otherwise I don't think he would have turned around.

I think Ste was debating whether to commit or not. Jamie gave him the

opening for each to express their love for one another and it was up to

Ste to take that opportunity. He did, which leads to a deeper compasion

for the other.

Todd

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Eric  wrote:

> Did any of you think that Ste was straight? I must say that the first two

> times I saw the film I was convinced of it.

>

> I think Jamie was the first person who ever was loving to Ste, and needing

> that very badly, Ste responded by getting emotionally attached to Jamie.

>

> On THE night, notice Ste's face in bed before he turns around to a head to

> head position with Jamie. He's thinking very intently about what to do.

> It's a difficult decision, but he makes it. I think he does that totally

> for Jamie's benefit. Yes, the massage felt *very* good, but he doesn't want

> Jamie to even know that.

>

> I think he finally gives in and turns 'round because he "owes" Jamie for

> being so nice to him. The next morning, Ste's face looks, well, disgusted.

> He actually grimaces when he wakes up and looks at Jamie. Then he avoids

> Jamie for a week.

>

> I think Ste absolutely loves Jamie, and then figures, based on that, that

> he actually IS Gay, and confuses loving Jamie with being Gay. I mean,

> Straight men can love each other -- you don't have to be Gay (though they

> don't *usually* have sex with each other!).

>

> Now, I don't expect anyone to agree with this idea, I just wondered if

> anyone else read that in. I have read both the play and the screenplay, and

> this idea of mine is NOT present in either. I got the idea purely from the

> subtext (real or imagined) of how Scott Neal played the character.

>

> Comments?

>

> BTW, I would have posted this to the newsgroup. My ISP carries it, but

> there are almost no messages in it, and the ones that are seem to be

> cross-postings of off-subject material! In other words, it doesn't seem to

> be working properly yet.

>

> -Eric

>

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:07:41 -0500 (CDT)

From: sean

Subject: Re: Ste's and Jamie's abusive relationship (OH, MY GAWD, WHO BROUGHT THIS UP!!!)

however you did miss one important aspect...it is not that abused children

then become abuseres themselves, but that abusers are more likely to have

been abused as children...that is important, because it states that not

all

abused children will become abusers, and thus Ste has a chance of not

becoming an abuser...stating that all abused children will become abusers

is a myth, and is often misstated to the people through these "statistics"

Sean

On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 HeadDr wrote:

> :)

>

> This is something that I really do not like to think about but since you

> brought it up...

> Oh, and by the way, I commented on the Newsgroup about this, so if you read

> this then <press delete>.

>

> DON'T SEND ME HATE MAIL FOR WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY!!

>

> Actually, statistics support that Ste will be abusive in his relationships.

> He comes from a family that shows nothing but violence, so it is only

> logical that he mimics what he has been subjected to over the years.

> However, most children from abusive families have a tendency to be angry and

> confrontational. Ste does not emit these qualities. As for Jamie,

> staying... Yes, I think he would. Despite his strong will, he is so much in

> love with Ste... He will think that if he stands by him; he will change.

> Which of course, will not happen.. (PS. Ste, if ya need a good therapist,

> let me know!!)

>

> CAN I SAY THIS... I am having the worse trouble with the newsgroup and

> unfortunatley, I think the majority of the problem is user originated. I

> mean on the IRC atleast the nice folks from BT put up with my lack of

> knowledge!!! lol

>

> Talk to ya later...

>

> Jim

>

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