Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:20:11 -0400 (EDT)

From: Todd

Subject: Re: Is Ste gay or not...

I think I'd actually have to disagree with you on this one. I think Ste

is gay and is coming to grips as to what that means. At the party, I

think Ste didnt' respond to Claires flirting because he just didn't get

it. He was intently interested in Jamie. I don't think he completely

realizes that till after Leah confronts the two of them and he has time to

think about it on the bridge.

I've got to go bbefore my computer gets zapped by lightening

Todd

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 HeadDr wrote:

> I have a theory (that is partly based on personal experience) and here it

> goes!!

>

>

> I think that Ste is straight!! <Do not send hate mail or delete this yet ---

> hear me out!!> However, just because someone is straight does not mean that

> they cannot love someone of the same sex. Someone mentioned in a posting

> that love is blind and Ste and Jamie are soul mates!!! This is what I mean.

> I do not think that Ste would be attracted to another guy other than Jamie.

> (Remember, he even hated going to the Gluocester) Now this does not

> diminish his love, contrary his love is very intense. He was faced with

> temptation from the girl at the party but turned her down. I think that if

> something was to happened to Jamie that he would date girls but until that

> happens, he will be dedicated to Jamie. Ste made this quite clear when they

> dance in the finale. He is saying "this is who I love and this is who I am

> going to be with and I do not care what anybody thinks.....!! I love Jamie

> !! "

>

>

> Jim

>

*****************************************************

From: Tony

Subject: Re: Movie that Jaime watched

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:01:10 +0100

 

It could be the same show, It certainly sounds like it could be from the

same show, but i'm afraid my expertise in this area is very limited. I

would consider my life wasted if I could recognise Rosie and Jim TV

Programmes by ear. :-).

Can anyone else confirm this fact?. If so I admire your patience.

 

----------

> From: J W

> Subject: Re: Movie that Jaime watched

> Date: 26 June 1997 03:59

>

> At 02:34 AM 6/25/97 +0100, you wrote:

> >Sorry to dissapoint you but "Rosie and Jim" is the name of a childrens

> programme over here

> >in england. It was on TV just before Jamie and Sandra had the fight, the

> programme she turned off.

> >It's a favourite of my niece and stars puppets.

>

> >Tony.

>

> Tony,

> Is this the same show we hear when Jamie's ironing his shirt as he

> talks to Sandra and Louise? The same show is on the tele in Ste's flat just

> before he irons his shirt as well. You can hear the moderator of the show

> saying something about "Now it's time to ride the bucking bronco."

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:09:16 -0700 (MST)

From: mesocyclone

Subject: Re: What is Sandra doing?

Thanks to everyone who answered my question about this. I had no

idea what was going on. They had the fight, and then I saw Sandra

throwing away all of Jaime's old things, which I thought was an

incredibly vindictive thing to do. And then she starts talking about how

Jaime will be slapped in care. When he spoke to Leah about it, I thought

he was talking about what would happen when he was slapped into care,

that he would end up in a foster home with samller kids that he didn't

want to deal with. I couldn't understand what the heck he was saying,

except "I don't want kids." Now it makes a heck of a lot more sense!!

Thanks a bunch!

*****************************************************

From: David

Subject: Re: Musical Background

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:19:55 -0000

Ron, I found the effect of the music to be exactly the opposite to your own

feeling.

Hettie was using it to say something at these points in the movie, and

bringing it so much to the fore was, I think, the perfect way to bring the

message over. The emotion attached to what would otherwise have been

mediocre scenes is what many, many people lock into as the most evocative

parts of the movie.

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:12:10 -0500 (CDT)

From: sean

Subject: Re.

it is clear that claire is attrcted to Ste, but I don't think it goes back

to the "GAy straight" thing. Ste has already made a commitment to

JAmie....and although he was very ambiguous about it he told Jamie he was

"queer" I think he is just lookig at JAmie because he is thinking "she

won't get anywhere, little does she know" It is the same thing when women

give me the eye or ask me to dance or hit on me, I am flattered but

obviously they have a snow balls chance in hell with me..I believe the

same thing happens here

Sean

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 HeadDr wrote:

> I would like to hear some opinions on something that happened in the movie.

> When Ste and Jamie were at the party. ( Around the time that Leah is tring

> to get someone to hit her!!) Ste glances at Claire who is staring at him.

> Ste then quickly looks at Jamie. (Almost as if, wondering if he was caught

> looking at her by Jamie!!) I would like some interpretation of this

> scene... If anyone would like to comment

>

> Jim

>

> PS. Could this go back to "Is Ste gay or straight??" hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! :)

>

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:43:03 +0100

From: Nicholas

Subject: Re: Is Ste gay or not...

Hi everyone. Have been a member of the list for a little bit and wanted to put

my two cents in on this subject.

Ste would have to be gay. If you remember the conversation that Ste and Leah

have towards the end when Ste asks Leah if she would be going to the Glouster.

I believe that she states that it's a gay pub and she doesn't know any gay

people. Ste replies "Yeah, you do". Leah says "Oh yeah?" (or something like that)

to which Ste replies "Yeah". They both smile.

Effectively, I believe that Ste just told Leah that he's gay.

Nicholas

 

Todd  wrote:

>

> I think I'd actually have to disagree with you on this one. I think Ste

> is gay and is coming to grips as to what that means. At the party, I

> think Ste didnt' respond to Claires flirting because he just didn't get

> it. He was intently interested in Jamie. I don't think he completely

> realizes that till after Leah confronts the two of them and he has time to

> think about it on the bridge.

>

> I've got to go bbefore my computer gets zapped by lightening

>

> Todd

> On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 HeadDr wrote:

>

> > I have a theory (that is partly based on personal experience) and here it

> > goes!!

> >

> >

> > I think that Ste is straight!! <Do not send hate mail or delete this yet ---

> > hear me out!!> However, just because someone is straight does not mean that

> > they cannot love someone of the same sex. Someone mentioned in a posting

> > that love is blind and Ste and Jamie are soul mates!!! This is what I mean.

> > I do not think that Ste would be attracted to another guy other than Jamie.

> > (Remember, he even hated going to the Gluocester) Now this does not

> > diminish his love, contrary his love is very intense. He was faced with

> > temptation from the girl at the party but turned her down. I think that if

> > something was to happened to Jamie that he would date girls but until that

> > happens, he will be dedicated to Jamie. Ste made this quite clear when they

> > dance in the finale. He is saying "this is who I love and this is who I am

> > going to be with and I do not care what anybody thinks.....!! I love Jamie

> > !! "

> >

> >

> > Jim

> >

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:42:49 -0400 (EDT)

From: Todd

Subject: Sandwich question

Is pastromie and fetachinie (sp?) on rye a real sandwich? Never heard of

one over here.

Todd

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:02:04 +0000

From: John

Subject: Re: What's Sandra doing?

mesocyclone wrote:

>

> Got a question for y'all. What is Sandra diong at the beginning of

> the movie when she's confronting Jaime about skipping school? Jaime goes

> outside and listen to Leah sing Mama Cass. Meanwhile, it looks like

> Sandra is throwing away a bunch of old teddy bears. What is going on there?

>

Good question!!! Never thought about it really. Maybe she's going

through some things she bought for the baby she lost (miscarried I

suppose) and decided it was time for them to go- rather than remind

herself of the pain. This dound plausible?

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:06:48 -0400 (EDT)

From: daviscj

Subject: Re: What's Sandra doing?

 

 

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, mesocyclone wrote:

> Got a question for y'all. What is Sandra diong at the beginning of

> the movie when she's confronting Jaime about skipping school? Jaime goes

> outside and listen to Leah sing Mama Cass. Meanwhile, it looks like

> Sandra is throwing away a bunch of old teddy bears. What is going on there?

 

She's throwing out all of Jamie's old toys that she ways saving (for

grandkids?). I think Jamie says "She's everything away I was saving for

me kids. I don't want kids." Then Leah replies, "Kids are cunts." :)

Later all,

Chris

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:05:47 -0800

From: Pat

Subject: Re: Sandwich question

At 4:42 AM -0800 on 6/26/97, Todd Brown wrote:

 

> Is pastromie and fetachinie (sp?) on rye a real sandwich? Never heard of

> one over here.

And speaking of sandwiches, what in the world is a walloping great fry-up?

Pat

--

Pat

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:14:28 -0500 (CDT)

From: sean

Subject: Re: What's Sandra doing?

Jamie makes a comment about her throwing away everything that is good for

children, I can't remember what exactly he said, but my guess is she was

just throwing away all his childhood things that he no longer needed.

Sean

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, mesocyclone wrote:

> Got a question for y'all. What is Sandra diong at the beginning of

> the movie when she's confronting Jaime about skipping school? Jaime goes

> outside and listen to Leah sing Mama Cass. Meanwhile, it looks like

> Sandra is throwing away a bunch of old teddy bears. What is going on there?

>

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:04:19 -0400 (EDT)

From: Eric

Subject: Re: What's Sandra doing?

At 02:21 PM 6/25/97 -0700, you wrote:

> Got a question for y'all. What is Sandra diong at the beginning of

>the movie when she's confronting Jaime about skipping school? Jaime goes

>outside and listen to Leah sing Mama Cass. Meanwhile, it looks like

>Sandra is throwing away a bunch of old teddy bears. What is going on there?

 

Sanda said:

"You know what I'm going to do now, duncha"

NOT juggle with the tangerines! She's going to clean out the closet!

Jaime: (to Leah) She's throwing away everything I was saving for me kids.

Books, toys. I don't want kids."

Leah: "Kids are cunts."

Yeah. ;-)

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:16:51 -0500 (CDT)

From: chakravorty

Subject: Re: What's Sandra doing?

She is getting rid of Jamie's old toys (stuffed animals, etc.).

*****************************************************

From: Ralf

Subject: AW: BT errors

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:41:45 -0700

Hi Eric,

Check the "goofs" section in the B.T. entry of http://imdb.com. There

are 3 errors listed. These are the only ones I know. Maybe you know

more.

- Crew or equipment visible

When Jamie and his Mum are fighting on the floor of their living room,

the transmitter of the body mike is visible on his back underneath his

tee-shirt.

- Boom mike visible

when Leah is ``making-up'' to go out with Ste and Jamie at the end of

the film.

- Continuity

When Jamie is in the tobacconist's looking at the magazines, there are

three copies of ``Gay Times'' in the long shot, but only two in the

close-up.

Jamie's position after Ste asks him to help Leah down from the balcony.

After ``rescuing'' Leah, Tony goes downstairs barefoot, but the sound of

shoes can be heard.

Take care

Ralf

>

> Hi All,

>

> Sometimes when you see a film, there are all kinds of errors, often

> ones of

> continuity. BT has a very LOW content of these. In fact there's only

> two

> that I'm sure are (slight) errors.

>

> I don't think there are any obvious ones. Usually (in most films)

> these

> involve wardrobe, jewelry, props that appear and reappear -- due to

> intercutting different takes. Perhaps because the film was shot so

> quickly,

> there was no time for lots of takes or bad memories about what props

> had

> been set where.

>

> Anyone spot any? This is all in fun, mind you.

>

> -Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:39:49 -0500

From: Fontenot

Subject: Re: Is Ste gay or not...

 

Well,

I don't think it matters. If you have some weird idea that just because

Ste is vaguely "butch" so he can't be gay, well, that's not right. And as for

Ste not liking the bar, well, I'm gay and HATE queer bars as well. That

particular line when Ste is crying and declares his hate for the stinking place

hit just the right chord with me. In case you didn't notice, most of the men

at the bar were well over 30, some of them in drag, and nearly all of them

leering at the boys as if to say, "I'm gonna EAT you, little pork chops!" Now

that's not very much fun for a teenager just coming out, is it? I think the

public making out is a little overwhelming also, I mean, just GO HOME, will ya?

The scene at the Gloucester perfectly captured everything I hate about those

places. Although I usually identify more with Jamie, I'm definitely in synch

with Ste's hatred of the Gloucester!

David

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:43:56 +0200

From: Meinolf

Subject: Re: Is Ste gay or not...

Hy Jim,

hy All,

> I think that Ste is straight!!

I don't! It may be, he is "bi". But I think he is atrakted to men in

general not only to Jamie.

> hear me out!!> However, just because someone is straight does not mean that

> they cannot love someone of the same sex. Someone mentioned in a posting

> that love is blind and Ste and Jamie are soul mates!!! This is what I mean.

You are right with this. But I think it does not concern to Ste. I can

not prove it. It is a feeling inside me. Hoewer, I am not free of seeing

things the way I wish them to be. :-)

> I do not think that Ste would be attracted to another guy other than Jamie.

How do you came to this?

> (Remember, he even hated going to the Gluocester)

Sure he hates the Gluocester! Nearly everyone of us in this situation

has hated the "Gluocester"! At least the most of us I know.

First, he has to accept to be gay.

Second, in front of the mother of his friend. He do not know what she

will do. And he is afraid to be outed or thomething like this.

Third, he is afraid of the future in general.

Fourth, he has no examples in his live of living gay, I think. So he

does not know how his future will go on!

 

> Now this does not diminish his love, contrary his love is very intense.

I think his love is intense. It is because he feels the love of someone

else the first time in his live. I was intense too in this situation and

I was afraid, I did run as far as I was able to. Because I had no

experience in this. Never feld to be loved before. But I had no Jamie

runing faster than I.

> He was faced with temptation from the girl at the party but turned her down.

And he did it the way the most of us have done it, when we begun to

realise to be different, to love different.

> I think that if something was to happened to Jamie that he would date girls but

> until that happens, he will be dedicated to Jamie. Ste made this quite clear when

> they dance in the finale. He is saying "this is who I love and this is who I am

> going to be with and I do not care what anybody thinks.....!! I love Jamie !! "

Whenever I have seen the scene, I see a boy who accept the power of his

lover to protect him.

At this point of the story, Jamie is the one with power to protect. He

has gone throu this whole story and got power out of this situation.

This was the compleat change. At the begining of the story Ste seems to

have the power and Jamie seems to be the punching-bag of the boys

around. And at the end Jamie asked Ste to dance. And Ste accepted Jamies

power to protect him.

Perfect!

Take care!

Meinolf

--

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:06:21 -0700 (MST)

From: mesocyclone

Subject: Is Ste straight?

No. Unequivocally no. I'd really have to say that Ste is, like Jaime,

gay. I don't think he hated going to the Gloucester. I think he was

scared and very uncomfortable, but I don't think he hated it. Otherwise,

why would he go again? Also, about the girl at the party -- she was

flirting with him, and he turns away. As in, "I'm not interested." I

don't think it has anything to do with Jaime catching looking at girls,

bc they really haven't firmed up their relationship at that point yet.

Same when she and her friend later proposition him on the bridge -- he's

just not interested.

I think Jaime and Ste have a very intense attachment to each other, a

very strong developing love. If it were ever torn asunder, I don't think

Ste would start dating girls. I think he'd keep on dating guys, as would

Jaime.

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:54:16 +0100 (BST)

From: Mr J J

Subject: Re: Re.

On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, sean  wrote:

> it is clear that claire is attrcted to Ste, but I don't think it goes back

> to the "GAy straight" thing. Ste has already made a commitment to

> JAmie....and although he was very ambiguous about it he told Jamie he was

> "queer" I think he is just lookig at JAmie because he is thinking "she

> won't get anywhere, little does she know" It is the same thing when women

> give me the eye or ask me to dance or hit on me, I am flattered but

> obviously they have a snow balls chance in hell with me..I believe the

> same thing happens here

>

 

That reminds me of a certain incident in the Gloucester on the June

14th fans meet!!! *giggling*

 

Joe.

 

 

 

 

> Sean >

> On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 HeadDr wrote:

>

> > I would like to hear some opinions on something that happened in the movie.

> > When Ste and Jamie were at the party. ( Around the time that Leah is tring

> > to get someone to hit her!!) Ste glances at Claire who is staring at him.

> > Ste then quickly looks at Jamie. (Almost as if, wondering if he was caught

> > looking at her by Jamie!!) I would like some interpretation of this

> > scene... If anyone would like to comment

> >

> > Jim

> >

> > PS. Could this go back to "Is Ste gay or straight??" hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! :)

> >

>

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:34:06 -0700 (MST)

From: mesocyclone

Subject: Re: What's Sandra doing?

Okay, so here's my next question: why is she doing it now? What has

prompted her to start throwing away all of the things Jaime was saving

for his kids? Just bc he was ditching class? Doesn't seem to be a

likely motivation to me. Help! What is going on here?

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:15:39 -0700

From: Michael

Subject: Re: Is Ste gay or not...

HeadDr wrote:

> I have a theory (that is partly based on personal experience) and here

> it

> goes!!

>

> I think that Ste is straight!! <Do not send hate mail or delete this

> yet ---

> hear me out!!> However, just because someone is straight does not

> mean that

> they cannot love someone of the same sex. Someone mentioned in a

> posting

> that love is blind and Ste and Jamie are soul mates!!! This is what I

> mean.

> I do not think that Ste would be attracted to another guy other than

> Jamie.

> (Remember, he even hated going to the Gluocester) Now this does not

> diminish his love, contrary his love is very intense. He was faced

> with

> temptation from the girl at the party but turned her down. I think

> that if

> something was to happened to Jamie that he would date girls but until

> that

> happens, he will be dedicated to Jamie. Ste made this quite clear

> when they

> dance in the finale. He is saying "this is who I love and this is who

> I am

> going to be with and I do not care what anybody thinks.....!! I love

> Jamie

> !! "

>

> Jim

Don't worry- no hate mail, just a disagreement.

Two movie points make me disagree and think that Ste is just as much a

gay boy as Jamie.

1) Even though their first kiss was initiated by Jamie, in the forest

frolick scene, Ste initiates the kissing when Jamie is up against a

tree. This is sexual love in addition to friendship love.

2) When Leah and Ste are talking (close to the end of the film), Leah

says that she doesn't know any gay boys. Ste says that yes, she does.

I call that coming out.

And, when Ste and Jamie are dancing at the end, that seems to me to be

the dance of two "boyfriends." I believe that Ste loved Jamie in a

sexual way, they were boyfriends. Maybe I'm being limited in terms of

labels, but I don't think someone is straight if they are sexually in

love with someone of the same gender.

- Michael

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:40:50 +0200

From: jmcs

Subject: Re: New Topic of Discussion..

At 19:15 25/06/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I would like to hear some opinions on something that happened in the movie.

> When Ste and Jamie were at the party. ( Around the time that Leah is tring

>to get someone to hit her!!) Ste glances at Claire who is staring at him.

> Ste then quickly looks at Jamie. (Almost as if, wondering if he was caught

>looking at her by Jamie!!) I would like some interpretation of this

>scene... If anyone would like to comment

>

>Jim

>

>PS. Could this go back to "Is Ste gay or straight??" hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! :)

 

Actually, I saw it the other way round. I think that after Leah´s comment to

be hit over the head, Ste´s lost looking around at his mates as if

wondering: "She´s nuts or what?" Suddenly, he bumps into Claire´s eyes and

she smiles at him invitingly. And Ste´s immediate, instinctive reaction is

look at Jamie. To me, Ste reacts that way because he feels himself commited

to Jamie. Maybe he isn´t even aware of that fact, he just reacts, and I find

it all the more endearing and revealing because of it. It´s as if you´re

with your boyfriend at a party and another boy starts flirting with you.

Your first movement is look at your boyfriend to check if he´s noticed anything.

Besides, as you saw, Ste never looks at her again. It´s one of those small

moments inside a film filled with small moments that made a GREAT moment as

a whole.

JMHO, of course.

 

Take care.

 

Sandra.

*****************************************************

From: Todd

Subject: Re: Is Ste gay or not...

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:45:05 -0400

So to have left you all hanging. There was a storming going through at my

work and we lost power several times for a short period.

To resume, Nicholas summed up my other point. If he was just in love with

Jamie, I don't think he would have come out to Leah as being gay. Also,

when he said he hated the Gloucester, I think it was just those feelings we

all go through when we first come out of being repressed by all around us.

It was a feeling of depression, confusion with Sandra finding out and still

not knowing how to deal with being gay. Unlike Jamie, Ste didn't read up

on gay things and didn't know what to expect or do. At that point, he was

at a point where he didn't want anyone to know and just wanted it to all go

away. Luckily for Jamie, Sandra comforted him and basically told him it

was OK to be who he was. And then when Jamie took his hand in his to

reinforce his affection and love. <I always cry at that point>

Todd

> From: Nicholas

> Subject: Re: Is Ste gay or not...

> Date: Thursday, June 26, 1997 1:43 PM

>

> Hi everyone. Have been a member of the list for a little bit and wanted

to put

> my two cents in on this subject.

>

> Ste would have to be gay. If you remember the conversation that Ste and

Leah

> have towards the end when Ste asks Leah if she would be going to the

Glouster.

> I believe that she states that it's a gay pub and she doesn't know any

gay

> people. Ste replies "Yeah, you do". Leah says "Oh yeah?" (or something

like that)

> to which Ste replies "Yeah". They both smile.

>

> Effectively, I believe that Ste just told Leah that he's gay.

>

> Nicholas

>

>

> Todd  wrote:

> >

> > I think I'd actually have to disagree with you on this one. I think

Ste

> > is gay and is coming to grips as to what that means. At the party, I

> > think Ste didnt' respond to Claires flirting because he just didn't get

> > it. He was intently interested in Jamie. I don't think he completely

> > realizes that till after Leah confronts the two of them and he has time

to

> > think about it on the bridge.

> >

> > I've got to go bbefore my computer gets zapped by lightening

> >

> > Todd

> >

> > On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 HeadDr wrote:

> >

> > > I have a theory (that is partly based on personal experience) and

here it

> > > goes!!

> > >

> > >

> > > I think that Ste is straight!! <Do not send hate mail or delete this

yet ---

> > > hear me out!!> However, just because someone is straight does not

mean that

> > > they cannot love someone of the same sex. Someone mentioned in a

posting

> > > that love is blind and Ste and Jamie are soul mates!!! This is what

I mean.

> > > I do not think that Ste would be attracted to another guy other

than Jamie.

> > > (Remember, he even hated going to the Gluocester) Now this does not

> > > diminish his love, contrary his love is very intense. He was faced

with

> > > temptation from the girl at the party but turned her down. I think

that if

> > > something was to happened to Jamie that he would date girls but until

that

> > > happens, he will be dedicated to Jamie. Ste made this quite clear

when they

> > > dance in the finale. He is saying "this is who I love and this is

who I am

> > > going to be with and I do not care what anybody thinks.....!! I

love Jamie

> > > !! "

> > >

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

*****************************************************

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