Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:10:38 +0000

From: John

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

Robert  wrote:

>

> Hi BTians,

>

> I haven't read my e-mail for a long time- so going through 1000 mails

> is hard work.

>

> I don't really understand why some people think Ste is straight- the

> critria being that Ste does't like the Gloucester and likes sports.

> Everybody is of course different (thank god) and I know a

> lot of gay guys who love sport- basketball/football - also a

> lot that hate gay bars. I don't particularly like gay bars- it

> seems such a contrived way of meeting gay people- I just wished

> it was easier to meet people in other places like in

> the hectro sexual world.

>

> Straight people can't believe that I'm gay because 'I don't look

> or 'act' gay'- I'm very glad to destroy the stereotypes. I think it

> is a shame that some gay people have stereotype views as well.

>

> Conclusion: You can't conclude that Ste is straight.

>

> Love

>

> Rob

Amen to that!!! mmm Hmmm!!!!!!

John

**************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:15:48 +0000

From: John

Subject: Re: BT errors

Jeff wrote:

>

> Well, to love a movie is to realize it has faults. There are others I can

> recall from previous critiques we've had on here. Like Tony wearing socks

> in one part of a scene and not in another. Can't recall exactly where.

>

> As for no. 2, no, Ste picks up plates and moves them, he doesn't remove the

> bubble and squeak from the stovetop. I used to think he was moving the pan.

> But listen to the sound (yes, I am a BT freak), it's a stack of plates

> clattering.

>

> Jeff

>

 

Hmmm, you're the second person to say that since I started reading

these today. And I just returned the darned video. Are your sure about

that?!

I have a distinct memory (or at least I think I do) of Ste turning to

the counter with the pan in his hand- the one that has the food in it.

Now I'm going to have to rent it again to check this out!

All in good fun....

John

**************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:37:00 -0400 (EDT)

From: HeadDr

Subject: Meeting Scott Neal..

OK

Who met Scott Neal!!???

And please give me details......!!!!!

I'm green with jealousy!!!!

Jim

**************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:51:39 -0400 (EDT)

From: HeadDr

Subject: Saundra....

I think Saundra deals with tough situations with humor and sarcasm. Its

kinda a defense mechanism for her. And I also think that Jamie knows that.

But, I do think sometimes she goes overboard. (ie. when she makes the

comments to Ste about going to the boxing) And honestly, I do not think that

she considered the effect that her comments had on him. But I must say, she

is very understanding especially when Jamie tell her about him and Ste. Even

then, she uses humor to deal with the situation. (ie doing the 70 minus 1)

As for Ste, I think that Saundra cares for him too. This is evident when

she allows him to stay with her and Jamie. Also, when she comforts him when

he finds out she knows about him and Jamie. Her apparent love for him is

what convinces me that Ste will come live with them above the Anchor.

Just my thoughts.

Jim

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:32:34 -0400

From: Froggy

Subject: Re: unsubscribe

You have to send a message to unsub yourself. Maybe someone will tell you

how. If not, go to the web site.

 

At 09:08 AM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote:

>For the SECOND time.. Please unsubscribe me from the list!!! it is

>bogging down my mailbox with useless stuff!

>

-Jake

**************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:41:28 -0800

From: Mike

Subject: Re: unsubscribe

At 9:08 AM -0700 6/30/97, The NewsBoy Dylan wrote:

>For the SECOND time.. Please unsubscribe me from the list!!! it is

>bogging down my mailbox with useless stuff!

 

No one can un-subscribe you. You must do it yourself:

Send email to:

in the body of the email message, type:

leave Beautiful-Thing

Mike

**************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:36:22 -0800

From: Mike

Subject: Re: BT errors

At 9:45 PM +0200 6/29/97, jmcs wrote:

>Have you noticed that when Ste and Jamie are kissing in the forest Ste wears

>his shirt buttoned to his neck? But when they come back home and bump into

>Leah, the first button is open.

>

>Hmmmm, well, on second thoughts maybe it´s not an error, after all. ;)

>

Hi guys and gals,

 

Just had a wonderful Pride Day Celebration here in San Francisco. Spent

most of the day hanging out with Jay and friends. Naturally one of the

things we talked about was BT.

A friend of mine pointed out that British pubs close at 11:00 PM (is that

right?). Well, folks, this means TWO AND A HALF TO THREE HOURS elapsed from

the time Jamie and Ste Left the Gloucester to where Sandra confronts Jamie

for having gone to the Gloucester. ("Leah, it's two o'clock in the

morning!) The only part of that we see is them running in the woods and

then makeing out.

Hmmmmmmmm... indeed! ;->

 

Mike

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:39:07 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Music

Regarding the music (and going back to a previous e-mail from weeks ago

regarding an American version...) what about the Carpenters being

"Leah's" group to follow - there's a great tragedy to add to Leah's

life. I don't mean to rehash our old conversation, it's just that this

only hit me a couple of nites ago and I wanted to share it with you all

- even if they don't do an Americanized version, perhaps a sequel will

have this GREAT group!?!

Comments???

Kevin

_____

 

Beautiful-Thing wrote:

>

> I think the music and the volume is just perfect. As someone said, its

> volume is representative of the scene. (ie first kiss, and the kissing

> scene in the park). And I also think that the "Sixteen going on Seventeen"

> scene alludes to a transition for both Ste and Jamie. A kinda of maturing of

> sorts...

>

> My thoughts of the day,

>

> JIM

**************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:57:11 -0800

From: Pat

Subject: Re: unsubscribe

At 8:08 AM -0800 on 6/30/97, The NewsBoy  wrote:

 

> For the SECOND time.. Please unsubscribe me from the list!!! it is

> bogging down my mailbox with useless stuff!

Geez, RTFM!! to leave the list send the line

leave beautiful-thing

to ftlist

**************************************************************

From: Spank

Subject: Re: Motivations/Sandra & Leah

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:53:11 +1000

Hi all,

No, I don't want to criticise Sandra either - although I think I started

that little thread about her treatment of Tony.

Eric Perkins eperkins@ziplink.net wrote:

> If anyone might have cause to dislike Sandra, it would probably be Leah.

> They don't seem to get along, but really they do in their own way. Sandra

> invites her over for beer on the terrace (well, at least Leah is there),

> and they are always trading quips. I think deep down, under it all they

do

> like each other. Certainly by the end they do. So really, everybody likes

> Sandra! Me too. :-)

Yes, Sandra's rather vicious with Leah throughout most of the film. Why?

Perhaps Leah has FORM for tripping with Mama Cass blasting at 2am? What do

residents in UK council estates think about having neighbours living in

such close proximity? Is it difficult to get along with neighbours?

Despite their differences and disagreements, (and the peculiarly English

habit of mercilessly sledging each other), I find it impossible to dislike

ANY ONE of the core characters, but then, I don't have to live next door to

Ste's old man.

I think we all hope Ste's old man has starved to death because he couldn't

cope with making his OWN bloody bubble & squeak after Ste leaves.

I'd also like to get a floppy wet trout and slap those nasty lads who made

li'l Jamie's life hell. I'm lucky; I escaped that kind of treatment at

school. I saw lots of it though, and I regret I didn't offer support to

those who suffered.

Iain

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:15:28 -0400

From: Darek

Subject: Re: Sandra...Ste's guardian.

For Ste's own safety, I think your last comment is a definite

possibility.

Ste and Jamie danced in front of the whole neighborhood. Its only a

matter of time before his dad or brother

find out, and when they do...I can not bare to think about it.

Sandra knows this, which is why she'll take Ste in (not to mention how

much Jamie will try to convince her).

It may be hard bringing them both up, but Ste does have that job at the

pool.

Guess Sandra will have to wait for a little while before she can get her

'pair of shoes that don't let the rain in'.

Warmest regards,

Darek

HeadDr wrote:

> I think Saundra ...she uses humor to deal with the situation. (ie

> doing the 70 minus 1)

>

> As for Ste, I think that Saundra cares for him too. This is evident

> when

> she allows him to stay with her and Jamie. Also, when she comforts

> him when

> he finds out she knows about him and Jamie. Her apparent love for him

> is

> what convinces me that Ste will come live with them above the Anchor.

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:58:25 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

Can I add, too, that I just watched the movie again the other nite (at

2am - so maybe it dulled my senses?!?) but the kiss in the park didn't

look very "real" (God, I'm gonna get e-mail for this one!?) I was

watching very intently (thru my sleep-induced haze?) and the kiss looked

"passionate", but not loving - I will probably have to watch it again -

because the first 5 or six times I saw it, it seemed real enough to me -

but for some reason, the other nite, it looked like two guys getting the

job done...on to the next scene. Has anyone else dared to pick apart the

scene at length?!? I apologize (in advance) if I upset anyone with this

comment - just voicing my opinion - and when I get a free moment I WILL

watch the park scene again, but after viewing it the last time, I found

it left me lacking...fulfillment!?

IMHO

Kevin

_____

beautiful-thing wrote:

>

> >I don't really understand why some people think Ste is straight- the

> >critria being that Ste does't like the Gloucester and likes sports.

> >Everybody is of course different (thank god) and I know a

> >lot of gay guys who love sport- basketball/football

>

> I was one of the people who thought Ste could be Straight, but it was for

> NONE of the reasons you just listed. I too know many Gay guys who love

> sports, and any and all things that Straight people like (perhaps with the

> exception of women as sexual partners!)

>

> My reasons for thinking Ste was Straight was really just in the way that

> Scott played the role. It certainly is not in the screenplay, and I know JH

> meant him to be Gay. I just thought Ste *could* have been Straight and

> still done the things that he did in the film. I do certainly know Straight

> guys who have sex with men. That breaks a lot of stereotypes too.

>

> Best,

>

> Eric

**************************************************************

From: Spank

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not/The Queer Commandments

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:23:53 +1000

I have to agree with Robert . Ste is just as queer as

Jamie.

There are just so many gay people out there, and its only a fraction of

them that actually fit perfectly into the Queer Commandments lifestyle (in

itself another stereotype) such as:

Thou shalt not admit listening to anything but dance, opera and show tunes.

Thou shalt ignore everyone over 30.

Thou shalt not enjoy sports (except synchronised swimming and gymnastics).

Thou shalt not wear garments without CK prominently emblazoned upon them.

(Okay, I'm having a laugh, but you know what I mean: straights don't have a

monopoly on discrimination).

Luckily, for every square peg trying to fit into a pink triangular hole

(ooh) there are others like them. The trick is in finding them.

Thousands of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender sports fans will

converge on Amsterdam next year for the Gay Games; in the process proving

that gays and sport do mix.

At least Ste has the sense to realise he Is gay and drops the deadly denial

trip which traps so many square peg gays.

Iain

**************************************************************

From: "Peter

Subject: RE: Ste gay or not

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:06:01 -0700

Well ya know they were all out of breath from trapsing about in the

park.

Peter

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Kevin

> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 1997 11:58 PM

> Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

>

> Can I add, too, that I just watched the movie again the other nite (at

> 2am - so maybe it dulled my senses?!?) but the kiss in the park didn't

> look very "real" (God, I'm gonna get e-mail for this one!?) I was

> watching very intently (thru my sleep-induced haze?) and the kiss

> looked

> "passionate", but not loving - I will probably have to watch it again

> -

> because the first 5 or six times I saw it, it seemed real enough to me

> -

> but for some reason, the other nite, it looked like two guys getting

> the

> job done...on to the next scene. Has anyone else dared to pick apart

> the

> scene at length?!? I apologize (in advance) if I upset anyone with

> this

> comment - just voicing my opinion - and when I get a free moment I

> WILL

> watch the park scene again, but after viewing it the last time, I

> found

> it left me lacking...fulfillment!?

> IMHO

> Kevin

> _____

> beautiful-thing wrote:

> >

> > >I don't really understand why some people think Ste is straight-

> the

> > >critria being that Ste does't like the Gloucester and likes sports.

> > >Everybody is of course different (thank god) and I know a

> > >lot of gay guys who love sport- basketball/football

> >

> > I was one of the people who thought Ste could be Straight, but it

> was for

> > NONE of the reasons you just listed. I too know many Gay guys who

> love

> > sports, and any and all things that Straight people like (perhaps

> with the

> > exception of women as sexual partners!)

> >

> > My reasons for thinking Ste was Straight was really just in the way

> that

> > Scott played the role. It certainly is not in the screenplay, and I

> know JH

> > meant him to be Gay. I just thought Ste *could* have been Straight

> and

> > still done the things that he did in the film. I do certainly know

> Straight

> > guys who have sex with men. That breaks a lot of stereotypes too.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Eric

**************************************************************

From: JOE

Subject: Peppermint Foot Lotion works :)

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:20:55 -0500

Just returned this afternoon from Hot'lanta where I had a great

extended weekend with friends during Atlanta's Pride celebration. It

began on Friday evening and lasted through Sunday night, with over

300,000 participating.

I took my copy of BT along and watched it with the friend I was

staying with. Then I found that another friend there is also a big BT

fan, but has only seen it once and desperately wants to get a copy

when the price comes down. We had a lot of things to talk about, as

we are really just getting to know each other, but BT was at least

one common thing we could make reference to, both how much we liked

it and how much it affected our lives.

Saturday afternoon, I checked out Lenox Square, Atlanta's largest

mall, and found a Body Shop! Of course, I had to purchase peppermint

foot lotion <G> and I even got a Body Shop mouse pad with it!

I tried the stuff after walking all day around the Pride festival

(the Pride market had over 200 booths) and it works. Smells neat

too.

One other bit of news - not BT, but internet related: I picked up a

copy of OUT Magazines Guide to the Web and my Skippy's Queer World

web site was listed (page 16) and with a glowing review! Was I

surprised! I'm going to have to do like movies do and post the blurb

on the web site!

Well, it's been an eight-hour interstate drive (386 miles) from

Atlanta to Jackson, TN, so I'll put off my responses to the gazillion

posts I've scanned through until I can close my eyes again and not

see a steering wheel and interstate highway in front of me. Hope

those of you whose cities has Pride festivals this past weekend had a

great time and hope you Brits have a great one coming up!

Gary

who is still laughing over the car that passed me and honked its horn

over my rainbow flag decal - the license plate on the car that passed

was from Tennessee and read: IM1RU :)

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:49:18 -0400 (EDT)

From: J W

Subject: Re: Ste straight, 70 -1& the party

At 11:33 PM 6/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

> Ok, saw the topic(s) and just HAD to join the fun! :)

>

>Is our Ste straight? To quote Whoopi Goldberg "I dunno, it's

>like...uh...like uh...sanitary napkins. If it fits...."

>

John,

I think you're right on. Ste has to switch sides, so to speak.

When Jamie asks him, "Can I come up to that end with you?" Ste replies,

"You stay right where you are!" In the alegorical sense (?), I have taken

this to mean "Jamie, you know where you are with this, but give me time to

catch up. You are going in the right direction and I have to catch up with

you. I have to make the switch to your end. You wait for me because I'm

going to meet you on your terms and in your direction." "I love you, Jamie,

and I will come to you!" Ste fits your straight arrow description; one who

denies it for so long and then has to come to the realization sooner or later.

John

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:49:14 -0400 (EDT)

From: J W

Subject: Re: My personal homage to "Beautiful Thing"

At 12:26 AM 6/27/97 +0200, you wrote:

>Hi John!

>

>Here it is.

Sandra,

What an imagination you have! You could write this stuff for the

screen. I think the fantasy of living a fantasy is interesting. I don't

know how it would play out on the screen, but I would give it a try.

I think the key thing for Ste in his relationship with the Gangel

family is that for the first time in his life, or at least as far back as he

can remember, he is given tenderness and love. Sandra encountering Ste on

the steps by the lake crying, consoles Ste, starts rubbing his back (instead

of beating it as Ronnie does) and then Sandra places her hand gently on

Ste's head (probably the first in a long time for this, too) and turns Ste's

head into her shoulder. This tenderness is something drastically missing

from his homelife. I've asked the question before: If Ronnie gets custody

of Trevor and Ste, what was the mum like? Unless she died, she must have

been really messed up for Trevor and Ste to end up with Ronnie.

The first night Jamie and Ste top 'n toe says it all. After Jamie

turns the lights off, he settles in and then raises up on one elbow. He

asks Ste if he's oright. Ste says, "Yeah". Jamie says, "Right. " There is

a pause and then Jamie says "Ste." Ste says, "What?" as if he expects a

conversation to follow. Jamie, very affectionately, but matter-of-factly

says, "Night." Next, just to hear Ste say, "Night, Jamie" makes my heart

melt every time. This is Ste going to sleep in a room with another person

(akin to his brother) who has just said the simple, "Night." Ste's "Night,

Jamie" is said with such feeling. Ste knows that this is the way it's

supposed to be with a "brother;" not the interminedable beatings and

terrorism he faces at the hands of Trevor. Ste has not gone to bed feeling

this warm coziness, this feeling of safety and security and that life is

going to be all right in a long time. It is these first feelings of safety

and security that leads Ste to realize that this "misfit" living next door

is a boy who can provide Ste with he's been missing in his life.

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:59:10 -0800

From: Mike

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

At 2:58 AM -0400 6/30/97, Kevin wrote:

> but after viewing it the last time, I found

>it left me lacking...fulfillment!?

>IMHO

>Kevin

>_____

Get over that 'big water,' mate, and I'll make you happy! ;-)

 

Mike

**************************************************************

Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 06:54:18 -0700

From: Jim

Subject: Re: Music

> I think the music and the volume is just perfect. As someone said, its

> volume is representative of the scene. (ie first kiss, and the kissing

> scene in the park). And I also think that the "Sixteen going on Seventeen"

> scene alludes to a transition for both Ste and Jamie. A kinda of maturing of

> sorts...

I haven't heard anyone mention my favourite part of "Sixteen"'s

appearance yet: it's one of the funniest jokes in the movie! This is a

song that is so totally inappropriate for a serious seduction/discovery

scene, being associated with the squeaky clean seduction/discovery scene

in _The Sound of Music_, that I, and the audience in the theatre most of

the times I saw it, laughed out loud, even though we were mesmerised by

Jamie and Ste at the *exact same time*. This was one of the moments

that told me I'll go see *anything* Hettie directs from now on.

Juxtaposition like that is art.

Jim

**************************************************************

From: David

Subject: Sound of Music, and Sixteen Going On Seventeen

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:41:17 -0000

As those of you who use IRC know quite well by now - Sixteen Going On

Seventeen is my favourite track.

The Sound of Music has always been associated, in my mind at least, with

some kind of gay image - I dunno why, but I think it has to do with Julie

Andrew!

Regards, Davie

**************************************************************

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:25:28 -0500 (CDT)

From: sean

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

I call what they did a "movie kiss" looks sort of real but you know it

isn't , this is closely related to the "tv kiss" which is even less real

(no open mouth). I think it all stems from the idea that many people

don't want to see it (gay or straight) so directors are weary to show it

any better.

Sean

On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Kevin wrote:

> Can I add, too, that I just watched the movie again the other nite (at

> 2am - so maybe it dulled my senses?!?) but the kiss in the park didn't

> look very "real" (God, I'm gonna get e-mail for this one!?) I was

> watching very intently (thru my sleep-induced haze?) and the kiss looked

> "passionate", but not loving - I will probably have to watch it again -

> because the first 5 or six times I saw it, it seemed real enough to me -

> but for some reason, the other nite, it looked like two guys getting the

> job done...on to the next scene. Has anyone else dared to pick apart the

> scene at length?!? I apologize (in advance) if I upset anyone with this

> comment - just voicing my opinion - and when I get a free moment I WILL

> watch the park scene again, but after viewing it the last time, I found

> it left me lacking...fulfillment!?

> IMHO

> Kevin

> _____

> beautiful-thing wrote:

> >

> > >I don't really understand why some people think Ste is straight- the

> > >critria being that Ste does't like the Gloucester and likes sports.

> > >Everybody is of course different (thank god) and I know a

> > >lot of gay guys who love sport- basketball/football

> >

> > I was one of the people who thought Ste could be Straight, but it was for

> > NONE of the reasons you just listed. I too know many Gay guys who love

> > sports, and any and all things that Straight people like (perhaps with the

> > exception of women as sexual partners!)

> >

> > My reasons for thinking Ste was Straight was really just in the way that

> > Scott played the role. It certainly is not in the screenplay, and I know JH

> > meant him to be Gay. I just thought Ste *could* have been Straight and

> > still done the things that he did in the film. I do certainly know Straight

> > guys who have sex with men. That breaks a lot of stereotypes too.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Eric

>

>

**************************************************************

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:28:15 +0200

From: jmcs

Subject: Re: My personal homage to "Beautiful Thing"

At 21:49 30/06/97 -0400, you wrote:

> I think the key thing for Ste in his relationship with the Gangel

>family is that for the first time in his life, or at least as far back as he

>can remember, he is given tenderness and love. Sandra encountering Ste on

>the steps by the lake crying, consoles Ste, starts rubbing his back (instead

>of beating it as Ronnie does) and then Sandra places her hand gently on

>Ste's head (probably the first in a long time for this, too) and turns Ste's

>head into her shoulder. This tenderness is something drastically missing

>from his homelife. I've asked the question before: If Ronnie gets custody

>of Trevor and Ste, what was the mum like? Unless she died, she must have

>been really messed up for Trevor and Ste to end up with Ronnie.

> The first night Jamie and Ste top 'n toe says it all. After Jamie

>turns the lights off, he settles in and then raises up on one elbow. He

>asks Ste if he's oright. Ste says, "Yeah". Jamie says, "Right. " There is

>a pause and then Jamie says "Ste." Ste says, "What?" as if he expects a

>conversation to follow. Jamie, very affectionately, but matter-of-factly

>says, "Night." Next, just to hear Ste say, "Night, Jamie" makes my heart

>melt every time. This is Ste going to sleep in a room with another person

>(akin to his brother) who has just said the simple, "Night." Ste's "Night,

>Jamie" is said with such feeling. Ste knows that this is the way it's

>supposed to be with a "brother;" not the interminedable beatings and

>terrorism he faces at the hands of Trevor. Ste has not gone to bed feeling

>this warm coziness, this feeling of safety and security and that life is

>going to be all right in a long time. It is these first feelings of safety

>and security that leads Ste to realize that this "misfit" living next door

>is a boy who can provide Ste with he's been missing in his life.

WOW!!! BEAUTIFUL POST, JOHN!!!

And thank you.

Take care.

Sandra.

**************************************************************

Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 11:52:28 -0500

From: Keith

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not -Reply

Kevin,

I kinda got that feeling too, but then it could also be because they were

both new to this "kissing" thing, so hadn't gotten it quite right. After all,

first times (for anything) always appear clumsy.

Keith

**************************************************************

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:53:04 -0400 (EDT)

From: Todd

Subject: Sandra and other things

First off: Sandra

She is the perfect character in this film. She's strong, independent,

loving, caring and has a remarkable relationship with her son. I don't

think she was being rude to Jamie with her comment about him not having

any mates. It was just banter between the two. Sometimes she does go

everboard with it (her comment to Ste on the balcony) but she doesn't mean

anything evil about it. I think it may be a form of 'defense' but for

what I'm not sure. Many people use humor to cover up their low self

esteems but I don't think that is the case with Sandra. She knows what

she wants out of life and is bound and determined to achieve that. Yet

underneith all that hard shell is a caring, nurturing mother.

As for the music debate, I didn't take much notice of it being either too

loud or too soft. To me it just seemed to fit in to all that was going on

around. Not distracting at all. Everytime I hear the songs now I think

of the scenes. I think that is a good sign of a great sound score.

Todd

**************************************************************

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:12:32 +0000

From: Duncan

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

Mike,

In the play, Jamie said "Get over that river mate, I'll make you happy!

on the close captions on my t.v. I read the same phrase.

Beautiful Thing-The Play, Act Two, Scene Three, p.p. 53

Luis

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:21:24 +0200

From: jmcs

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

At 02:58 30/06/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Can I add, too, that I just watched the movie again the other nite (at

>2am - so maybe it dulled my senses?!?) but the kiss in the park didn't

>look very "real" (God, I'm gonna get e-mail for this one!?) I was

>watching very intently (thru my sleep-induced haze?) and the kiss looked

>"passionate", but not loving - I will probably have to watch it again -

>because the first 5 or six times I saw it, it seemed real enough to me -

>but for some reason, the other nite, it looked like two guys getting the

>job done...on to the next scene. Has anyone else dared to pick apart the

>scene at length?!? I apologize (in advance) if I upset anyone with this

>comment - just voicing my opinion - and when I get a free moment I WILL

>watch the park scene again, but after viewing it the last time, I found

>it left me lacking...fulfillment!?

>IMHO

>Kevin

Buf! How can I explain this?

The first time I saw the movie I knew exactly how and when they were going

to kiss because I had read the screenplay in advance. But I had no idea what

my reaction was going to be or if the kiss was going to be shy, passionate,

both... you know?

Well, my reaction was unexpected to say the least. The music captivated me.

Seeing Ste and Jamie chasing each other with such happiness and abandonment

and Mama Cass at full volume (it was the first time I heard the song) made

me literally jump from my seat. I was expecting them to kiss because I KNEW

they were going to kiss but when they slow down and Ste goes to Jamie my

heart stopped. The first two kisses were shy as I expected them to be but

after that everything went too fast. The kiss was over before I knew. That

was my first impression. A blur of lips, arms...

After two million wiewings (some of them slow motion) I think that was

exactly the way Hettie wanted the kiss to be. After all, they could have

shot it again and again until they kissed 'correctly'. <G>

A big plus for me is the fact that it was the first time Glen and Scott

kissed, which makes the scene even more innocent and pure, IMO.

Now, I don´t believe the kiss is 'fast' anymore. In fact, I consider it has

a certain rhythm, a cadence (maybe it´s because of the music, I dunno).

Sometimes I even think it´s really slow. It has a hurried clumsiness that I

love. They want to do everything at once. The way they sometimes bump their

noses when they turn their heads, that light caress to Ste´s neck, that

moment when they embrace each other and their arms entangle... beautiful.

I do believe it´s a very passionate kiss. They want to please the other but

they don´t know how. It´s not just a smooch, it´s a very

loving-sweet-passionate kiss. [And I´ve seen it at every possible moment and

mood: in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening, at night, in the

living room, in my room, in my bed (I still remember the earthquake in the

middle of the kiss!), angry, sad, happy, sleepy...] but every time I find it

delightful and beautiful to see. (sigh)

Excuse me, I must to see it for two million and one time. ´Night, everybody.

Take care.

 

Sandra.

**************************************************************

Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 21:11:03 -0400 (EDT)

From: daviscj

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

It probably also has something to do with the fact that Jamie and Ste

are really Glen and Scott, two straight guys who most likely have never

kissed another man before and are probably not quite as into at as most

of us around here might be:

Later,

Chris

On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, sean  wrote:

> I call what they did a "movie kiss" looks sort of real but you know it

> isn't , this is closely related to the "tv kiss" which is even less real

> (no open mouth). I think it all stems from the idea that many people

> don't want to see it (gay or straight) so directors are weary to show it

> any better.

>

> Sean

>

> On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Kevin wrote:

>

> > Can I add, too, that I just watched the movie again the other nite (at

> > 2am - so maybe it dulled my senses?!?) but the kiss in the park didn't

> > look very "real" (God, I'm gonna get e-mail for this one!?) I was

> > watching very intently (thru my sleep-induced haze?) and the kiss looked

> > "passionate", but not loving - I will probably have to watch it again -

> > because the first 5 or six times I saw it, it seemed real enough to me -

> > but for some reason, the other nite, it looked like two guys getting the

> > job done...on to the next scene. Has anyone else dared to pick apart the

> > scene at length?!? I apologize (in advance) if I upset anyone with this

> > comment - just voicing my opinion - and when I get a free moment I WILL

> > watch the park scene again, but after viewing it the last time, I found

> > it left me lacking...fulfillment!?

> > IMHO

> > Kevin

> > _____

> > beautiful-thing wrote:

> > >

> > > >I don't really understand why some people think Ste is straight- the

> > > >critria being that Ste does't like the Gloucester and likes sports.

> > > >Everybody is of course different (thank god) and I know a

> > > >lot of gay guys who love sport- basketball/football

> > >

> > > I was one of the people who thought Ste could be Straight, but it was for

> > > NONE of the reasons you just listed. I too know many Gay guys who love

> > > sports, and any and all things that Straight people like (perhaps with the

> > > exception of women as sexual partners!)

> > >

> > > My reasons for thinking Ste was Straight was really just in the way that

> > > Scott played the role. It certainly is not in the screenplay, and I know JH

> > > meant him to be Gay. I just thought Ste *could* have been Straight and

> > > still done the things that he did in the film. I do certainly know Straight

> > > guys who have sex with men. That breaks a lot of stereotypes too.

> > >

> > > Best,

> > >

> > > Eric

> >

> >

>

>

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 02:02:05 +0100

From: Gavin

Subject: Re: Sound of Music, and Sixteen Going On Seventeen

At 22:41 7/1/97 -0000, David  wrote:

>The Sound of Music has always been associated, in my mind at least, with

>some kind of gay image - I dunno why, but I think it has to do with Julie

>Andrew!

Victor/Victoria you're thinking of?

 

Gav.

**************************************************************

From: David

Subject: Re: Sound of Music, and Sixteen Going On Seventeen

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:08:42 -0000

Gavin commented...

At 22:41 7/1/97 -0000, David  wrote:

>The Sound of Music has always been associated, in my mind at least, with

>some kind of gay image - I dunno why, but I think it has to do with Julie

>Andrew!

Victor/Victoria you're thinking of?

----------------

Thats it babes, show me up in public! *smooch*

Regards, Davie

**************************************************************

From: JOE

Subject: Re: Sound of Music, and Sixteen Going On Seventeen

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:50:02 -0500

>

> At 22:41 7/1/97 -0000, David  wrote:

> >The Sound of Music has always been associated, in my mind at

least, with

> >some kind of gay image - I dunno why, but I think it has to do

with Julie

> >Andrew!

>

> Victor/Victoria you're thinking of?

>

>

> Gav.

>

I loved the "Sixteen going on seventeen" bit for its sheer irony.

The lyrics sung to a "little girl" as two _boys_ are getting

intimate, the brightness and lightness of the song at such a

_serious_ moment, and the fact that we see two couples experiencing

the song at the same time in different ways (Sandra and Tony glued to

the TV, Jamie and Ste getting "glued" to each other <G) all made it a

delightful moment for me.

Ironically, "The Sound of Music" is my _least_ favorite film ever

made - I even walked out on it in the theater. But then I would

really love musicals if only no one would sing. <G> Yet it seemed

a perfect, ironic and fitting choice here.

Gary

**************************************************************

From: Todd

Subject: RE: Sound of Music, and Sixteen Going On Seventeen

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:31:18 -0400

I loved it for pretty much the same reasons. Everything EXCEPT the hating

The Sound of Music part. Next to Beautiful Thing, that's my favorite movie.

I was enjoying the bedroom scene incredibly, but as soon as that music

started playing, I smiled from ear to ear. That was when I knew that B-T

was something incredibly special.

----------

From: JOE

Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 11:28 PM

Subject: Re: Sound of Music, and Sixteen Going On Seventeen

>

> At 22:41 7/1/97 -0000, David  wrote:

> >The Sound of Music has always been associated, in my mind at

least, with

> >some kind of gay image - I dunno why, but I think it has to do

with Julie

> >Andrew!

>

> Victor/Victoria you're thinking of?

>

>

> Gav.

>

I loved the "Sixteen going on seventeen" bit for its sheer irony.

The lyrics sung to a "little girl" as two _boys_ are getting

intimate, the brightness and lightness of the song at such a

_serious_ moment, and the fact that we see two couples experiencing

the song at the same time in different ways (Sandra and Tony glued to

the TV, Jamie and Ste getting "glued" to each other <G) all made it a

delightful moment for me.

Ironically, "The Sound of Music" is my _least_ favorite film ever

made - I even walked out on it in the theater. But then I would

really love musicals if only no one would sing. <G> Yet it seemed

a perfect, ironic and fitting choice here.

Gary

**************************************************************

From: David

Subject: YOUR SEXUALITY AND YOU=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A0_-=A0?= Do you need treatment?

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 07:33:30 -0000

1) What do you think is the cause of your heterosexuality?

2) When did you first realise you might be heterosexual?

3) Have you told your parents? What do they think of it?

4) Are there any others like you in your family?

5) Would you say that you had an inadequate father or mother figure?

6) Don't you think that heterosexuality might just be a phase you're

going through?

7) Are you afraid of members of your own sex?

8) Isn't it possible that what you need is a good gay lover?

9) What do actually do in bed?

10) You put what where?

11) But how can people of the opposite sex really please each other

when there are such vast emotional and biological differences between

them?

12) Society gives considerable support to the institution of marriage, but

the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships

among heterosexuals?

13) Is it because they are so promiscuous?

14) There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Have you

considered aversion therapy?

15) Why do you feel compelled to seduce others into your sexual

practices?

16) Why do you insist on making such a public spectacle of your

heterosexuality? Can't you just keep it to yourself?

17) More than 90% of child molesters are thought to be hetersexual. Would

you feel comfortable entrusting your children's education to heterosexuals?

 

18) Why do people like you emphasise the heterosexual qualities of famous

people such as film stars? Is it because you need to validate your own

condition?

19) Penetrative sex is most common amongst heterosexual couples. Are you

worried about the risk of getting AIDS?

20) If everybody were heterosexual like you, what would happen to the

world's population? Don't you think it's rather unreasonable of you to

insist on sleeping with members of the opposite sex?

 

Regards, Davie

**************************************************************

From: Kenneth

Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_YOUR_SEXUALITY_AND_YOU=A0_-=A0_Do_you_need_treatmen?=

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?t=3F?=

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 07:55:32 -0400

Huh? What has this to do with BT. Although I think it is funny and makes a

statement (several actually) I don't get it. Sorry for the inadequacy

Ken

----------

> From: David

> Subject: YOUR SEXUALITY AND YOU - Do you need treatment?

> Date: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 03.33

>

> 1) What do you think is the cause of your heterosexuality?

>

> 2) When did you first realise you might be heterosexual?

>

> 3) Have you told your parents? What do they think of it?

>

> 4) Are there any others like you in your family?

>

> 5) Would you say that you had an inadequate father or mother figure?

>

> 6) Don't you think that heterosexuality might just be a phase you're

> going through?

>

> 7) Are you afraid of members of your own sex?

>

> 8) Isn't it possible that what you need is a good gay lover?

>

> 9) What do actually do in bed?

>

> 10) You put what where?

>

> 11) But how can people of the opposite sex really please each other

>

> when there are such vast emotional and biological differences between

> them?

>

> 12) Society gives considerable support to the institution of marriage,

but

> the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships

> among heterosexuals?

>

> 13) Is it because they are so promiscuous?

>

> 14) There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Have you

>

> considered aversion therapy?

>

> 15) Why do you feel compelled to seduce others into your sexual

> practices?

>

> 16) Why do you insist on making such a public spectacle of your

> heterosexuality? Can't you just keep it to yourself?

>

> 17) More than 90% of child molesters are thought to be hetersexual.

Would

> you feel comfortable entrusting your children's education to

heterosexuals?

>

>

> 18) Why do people like you emphasise the heterosexual qualities of

famous

> people such as film stars? Is it because you need to validate your own

> condition?

>

> 19) Penetrative sex is most common amongst heterosexual couples. Are you

> worried about the risk of getting AIDS?

>

> 20) If everybody were heterosexual like you, what would happen to the

> world's population? Don't you think it's rather unreasonable of you to

> insist on sleeping with members of the opposite sex?

>

>

> Regards, Davie

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 11:16:55 +0000

From: John

Subject: Re: Beautiful Thing

I was thinking about the first time Ste actually began to have feelings

for Jamie. I think the first night in the bedroom, he may have felt

*something* but was basically unaware of his feelings at that point.

For me, the first time Ste actually feels something for Jamie is in

the scene where he is playing soccer with his friends. The two glances

that Ste gives him while kicking the ball isn't what I'm talking

about.

When the ball goes into the water?

"....my ball back?" Jamie says (I really haven't a clue as to

what he really says. It's sounds to me like "garble garble my ball

back?")

All the guys jump in, and after Jamie is thrown in (by that McBride

fellow) they all seem more concerned with teasing him and splashing him

with water. They have all forgotten about the ball- all except for Ste

that is.

It is this point for me that Ste realizes he has feelings for Jamie.

Notice the affectionate way he grabs the ball, puts his whole body

around ensuring that he has it. Then he gets up and looks over toward

Jamie and sees the other guys splashing him with water. As Ste looks at

him he smiles with an affectionate look. It's very subtle.

What do the rest of you guys think about this.

John

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 15:20:55 -0400

From: Eric

Subject: Re: Beautiful Thing

At 11:16 AM 7/2/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Ior me, the first time Ste actually feels something for Jamie is in

>the scene where he is playing soccer with his friends. The two glances

>that Ste gives him while kicking the ball isn't what I'm talking

>about.

> When the ball goes into the water?

>

> "....my ball back?" Jamie says (I really haven't a clue as to

>what he really says. It's sounds to me like "garble garble my ball

>back?")

If I'm not mistaken, Jamie says "Get us me ball back."

 

> All the guys jump in, and after Jamie is thrown in (by that McBride

>fellow) they all seem more concerned with teasing him and splashing him

>with water. They have all forgotten about the ball- all except for Ste

>that is.

>

> It is this point for me that Ste realizes he has feelings for Jamie.

I don't think this is the first time that Ste has feelings for Jamie. He

smiles at Jamie in the opening scene too. It's obvious that they like each

other from the get-go. I think there is some affection there, tho Ste

doesn't recognise it for what it is. I think it would be really hard to pin

down an exact moment. If I had to, I would say the first time Ste really is

AWARE that he has SPECIAL feelings for Jamie is when Jamie is massaging his

back, or very shortly thereafter.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

-Eric

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:14:04 -0400 (GMT-0400)

From: "luiriver

Subject: Re: Beautiful Thing

Hi,

What Jamie said is "Get me ball back"

Luis

On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, John wrote:

> I was thinking about the first time Ste actually began to have feelings

> for Jamie. I think the first night in the bedroom, he may have felt

> *something* but was basically unaware of his feelings at that point.

> For me, the first time Ste actually feels something for Jamie is in

> the scene where he is playing soccer with his friends. The two glances

> that Ste gives him while kicking the ball isn't what I'm talking

> about.

> When the ball goes into the water?

>

> "....my ball back?" Jamie says (I really haven't a clue as to

> what he really says. It's sounds to me like "garble garble my ball

> back?")

>

> All the guys jump in, and after Jamie is thrown in (by that McBride

> fellow) they all seem more concerned with teasing him and splashing him

> with water. They have all forgotten about the ball- all except for Ste

> that is.

>

> It is this point for me that Ste realizes he has feelings for Jamie.

> Notice the affectionate way he grabs the ball, puts his whole body

> around ensuring that he has it. Then he gets up and looks over toward

> Jamie and sees the other guys splashing him with water. As Ste looks at

> him he smiles with an affectionate look. It's very subtle.

> What do the rest of you guys think about this.

>

> John

>

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 15:53:32 -0500

From: Keith

Subject: Re: Beautiful Thing -Reply

John write:

I was thinking about the first time Ste actually began to have feelings

for Jamie....

John,

I think you may be right, but I think there is a continual development of

Ste's feeling for Jamie throughout the movie, albeit in a slow, subtle way.

I think this is a credit to the actors, and the writer.

When the movie opens, the guys are teasing Jamie, and he even pleads

with Ste to stop it. The scene is too quick to see much on Ste's face, but

I get the idea he isn't paying much attention to Jamie.

There is the first night in Jamie's bedroom, where Jamie calls Ste, who

answers hesitantly, but also expectantly. He also makes the comment to

Jamie about how he looks good with glasses.

The look Ste gives Jamie when he gets his ball out of the water is one of

hopeful love for Jamie.

In the backrub scene, the look on Ste's face says this is the first time he

has been loved, and he is blissfully content. He is keeping all the

happiness to himself here, but is also realizing his love for Jamie is being

returned.

I think all these subtle (and not so subtle) things throughout the movie

are one of the reasons BT is so beautiful. It reflects how many

relationships develop - slow at first, subtle, but picking up momentum. I

also think this is why the line from Mama Cass "...keeps growing

stronger every day..." is so appropriate.

Just my rambling thoughts, and not necessarily in the right order...

Keith

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 06:36:08 -0800

From: Bruce

Subject: Re: YOUR SEXUALITY AND YOU - Do you need treatment?

 

 

Oh my, Davie! Aren't WE being provocative today???? =^P

 

cheers!

Bruce

 

--

**************************************************************

From: Todd

Subject: RE: Beautiful Thing

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:06:07 -0400

I agree wholeheartedly. And notice that later, on the balcony with Sandra, Tony and

Leah, Ste stands close to Jamie and sort of tries to impress him with his humor. It's

subtle, but I think it's there.

Todd

----------

From: John

Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 4:02 PM

Subject: Re: Beautiful Thing

I was thinking about the first time Ste actually began to have feelings

for Jamie. I think the first night in the bedroom, he may have felt

*something* but was basically unaware of his feelings at that point.

For me, the first time Ste actually feels something for Jamie is in

the scene where he is playing soccer with his friends. The two glances

that Ste gives him while kicking the ball isn't what I'm talking

about.

When the ball goes into the water?

"....my ball back?" Jamie says (I really haven't a clue as to

what he really says. It's sounds to me like "garble garble my ball

back?")

All the guys jump in, and after Jamie is thrown in (by that McBride

fellow) they all seem more concerned with teasing him and splashing him

with water. They have all forgotten about the ball- all except for Ste

that is.

It is this point for me that Ste realizes he has feelings for Jamie.

Notice the affectionate way he grabs the ball, puts his whole body

around ensuring that he has it. Then he gets up and looks over toward

Jamie and sees the other guys splashing him with water. As Ste looks at

him he smiles with an affectionate look. It's very subtle.

What do the rest of you guys think about this.

John

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 17:35:22 -0500

From: JOE

Subject: Re: YOUR SEXUALITY AND YOU - Do you need treatment?

Bruce  wrote:

>

> Oh my, Davie! Aren't WE being provocative today???? =^P

>

> cheers!

>

> Bruce

Actually, I suspect Davie is getting primed for Pride. :) I was part

of Atlanta's Pride weekend this past weekend and one thing it does for

you is bring out the "militant" spirit.

I think it's also part of the spirit of BT. The film is so affirming is

the "rightness" and downright goodness of gay love that it has the

ability to empower.

Gary

--

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:40:00 -0400 (EDT)

From: daviscj

Subject: RE: Beautiful Thing

I don't really think Ste is doing too much in the way of trying to

impress Jamie on the balcony, but Jamie sure is reacting like he's in

love. He jump all over his mom when she's making fat jokes about Mama

Cass, but as soon as Ste cracks one, he's all smiles.

Secondly, something I've been wondering about since I first saw the

movie: what is that look Sandra gives Louise on their way home from work

as Louise walks away? Any thoughts

Later,

Chris

 

 

On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Todd wrote:

> I agree wholeheartedly. And notice that later, on the balcony with Sandra, Tony and Leah,

Ste stands close to Jamie and sort of tries to impress him with his humor. It's subtle, but I think it's there.

>

> Todd

>

> ----------

> From:

> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 4:02 PM

> Subject: Re: Beautiful Thing

>

> I was thinking about the first time Ste actually began to have feelings

> for Jamie. I think the first night in the bedroom, he may have felt

> *something* but was basically unaware of his feelings at that point.

> For me, the first time Ste actually feels something for Jamie is in

> the scene where he is playing soccer with his friends. The two glances

> that Ste gives him while kicking the ball isn't what I'm talking

> about.

> When the ball goes into the water?

>

> "....my ball back?" Jamie says (I really haven't a clue as to

> what he really says. It's sounds to me like "garble garble my ball

> back?")

>

> All the guys jump in, and after Jamie is thrown in (by that McBride

> fellow) they all seem more concerned with teasing him and splashing him

> with water. They have all forgotten about the ball- all except for Ste

> that is.

>

> It is this point for me that Ste realizes he has feelings for Jamie.

> Notice the affectionate way he grabs the ball, puts his whole body

> around ensuring that he has it. Then he gets up and looks over toward

> Jamie and sees the other guys splashing him with water. As Ste looks at

> him he smiles with an affectionate look. It's very subtle.

> What do the rest of you guys think about this.

>

> John

>

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 21:31:31 -0400

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Ste gay or not

Not to be a real-sh*t,

but I have to admit, after seeing the movie that night, I kept

remembering how everyone was slobbering over the kiss and how beautiful

it was - I got the impression that "everyone" thought it was the

"perfect kiss", and it wasn't - as you say, it's got rhythm, it's does

move - it is very "real" in the sense that NOTHING is perfect, but that

doesn't mean we can't try to attain perfection, right?

Well, my whole point in writing, as I said was to get others to think

about that too - too many times I have gone back and thought, "God, if I

had only done that differently..." whereas if someone had been observing

me from an objective point of view, they may have considered my actions

(words, etc) "poetry in motion"...or not!?! But the point I am trying to

make is that no matter what we each may think about a certain thing, we

can choose to see it positively or negatively, in a dream or in reality

- well, I guess you said it best: "Well, my reaction was unexpected to

say the least." Sorry if this sounds very confusing (long story), but I

have gotten back alot of responses (like I thought) and most have them

have encouraged me...no matter how bad or good something LOOKS like, it

can still be a Beautiful Thing.

 

Kevin

_____

 

jmcs  wrote:

>

> At 02:58 30/06/97 -0400, you wrote:

> >Can I add, too, that I just watched the movie again the other nite (at

> >2am - so maybe it dulled my senses?!?) but the kiss in the park didn't

> >look very "real" (God, I'm gonna get e-mail for this one!?) I was

> >watching very intently (thru my sleep-induced haze?) and the kiss looked

> >"passionate", but not loving - I will probably have to watch it again -

> >because the first 5 or six times I saw it, it seemed real enough to me -

> >but for some reason, the other nite, it looked like two guys getting the

> >job done...on to the next scene. Has anyone else dared to pick apart the

> >scene at length?!? I apologize (in advance) if I upset anyone with this

> >comment - just voicing my opinion - and when I get a free moment I WILL

> >watch the park scene again, but after viewing it the last time, I found

> >it left me lacking...fulfillment!?

> >IMHO

> >Kevin

>

> Buf! How can I explain this?

>

> The first time I saw the movie I knew exactly how and when they were going

> to kiss because I had read the screenplay in advance. But I had no idea what

> my reaction was going to be or if the kiss was going to be shy, passionate,

> both... you know?

>

> Well, my reaction was unexpected to say the least. The music captivated me.

> Seeing Ste and Jamie chasing each other with such happiness and abandonment

> and Mama Cass at full volume (it was the first time I heard the song) made

> me literally jump from my seat. I was expecting them to kiss because I KNEW

> they were going to kiss but when they slow down and Ste goes to Jamie my

> heart stopped. The first two kisses were shy as I expected them to be but

> after that everything went too fast. The kiss was over before I knew. That

> was my first impression. A blur of lips, arms...

>

> After two million wiewings (some of them slow motion) I think that was

> exactly the way Hettie wanted the kiss to be. After all, they could have

> shot it again and again until they kissed 'correctly'. <G>

>

> A big plus for me is the fact that it was the first time Glen and Scott

> kissed, which makes the scene even more innocent and pure, IMO.

> Now, I dont believe the kiss is 'fast' anymore. In fact, I consider it has

> a certain rhythm, a cadence (maybe its because of the music, I dunno).

> Sometimes I even think its really slow. It has a hurried clumsiness that I

> love. They want to do everything at once. The way they sometimes bump their

> noses when they turn their heads, that light caress to Stes neck, that

> moment when they embrace each other and their arms entangle... beautiful.

>

> I do believe its a very passionate kiss. They want to please the other but

> they dont know how. Its not just a smooch, its a very

> loving-sweet-passionate kiss. [And Ive seen it at every possible moment and

> mood: in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening, at night, in the

> living room, in my room, in my bed (I still remember the earthquake in the

> middle of the kiss!), angry, sad, happy, sleepy...] but every time I find it

> delightful and beautiful to see. (sigh)

>

> Excuse me, I must to see it for two million and one time. Night, everybody.

>

> Take care.

>

> Sandra.

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:11:07 -0400

From: Eric

Subject: RE: Beautiful Thing

 

>Secondly, something I've been wondering about since I first saw the

>movie: what is that look Sandra gives Louise on their way home from work

>as Louise walks away? Any thoughts

I thought it was a mix of feelings. Louise is fantasizing about the money

she could spend if she managed a pub. Sandra has been through too many hard

knocks to buy into that fantasy - money comes from hard work - but still it

sounds nice. So I always thought the look was "you're getting carried away

Louise, but wouldn't it be nice?"

-Eric

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:49:53 +0000

From: John

Subject: Cheese & Salad- Bang on food!

Hello all!

Perhaps someone can help with some dialogue that nobody has yet

mentioned (at least since I've been connected)

It's the scene in the bedroom where Jamie asks about Ste's sandwhich

and Ste replies, "Cheese and salad- bang on food"

Now that I understand.

But what does it mean when he says it's good for your spots?

At first when Ste said it I thought he was talking about weightlifting-

but then it sounds like Jamie says, "...something garble .......spots?

Then Ste mumbles something I didn't quite understand to which Jamie

responds,

"Cheers"

 

 

???

??? ???

???

???

???

???

???

???

???

??

 

 

I don't get it.

 

 

John

**************************************************************

From: David

Subject: Re: Cheese & Salad- Bang on food!

Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:07:12 -0000

>But what does it mean when he says it's good for your spots?

>

>At first when Ste said it I thought he was talking about weightlifting-

>

> but then it sounds like Jamie says, "...something garble .......spots?

The first word is SPORTS, not spots...

Ste: Cheese and salad. Bang-on food.

Jamie: Good for your sports, that.

Ste: That's right. Good for your spots an'all

Scene 33, Beautiful Thing screenplay, copyright Jonathan Harvey.

This kind of sandwich is filling and good for building muscles for swimming

:)

Regards, Davie

**************************************************************

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:44:02 -0500

From: Kyle

Subject: RE: Beautiful Thing

At 07:40 PM 7/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I don't really think Ste is doing too much in the way of trying to

>impress Jamie on the balcony, but Jamie sure is reacting like he's in

>love. He jump all over his mom when she's making fat jokes about Mama

>Cass, but as soon as Ste cracks one, he's all smiles.

>

>Secondly, something I've been wondering about since I first saw the

>movie: what is that look Sandra gives Louise on their way home from work

>as Louise walks away? Any thoughts

>

>Later,

>

>Chris

My interpretation has always been that Sandra is just pondering the

possibilities that open up from running her own pub. I don't think the

look is specifically directed at Louise, though it is in her general

direction :) I get that same look sometimes :)

Kyle

**************************************************************

Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 07:16:29 +0200

From: Meinolf

Subject: Re: Cheese & Salad- Bang on food!

Hello John,

> It's the scene in the bedroom where Jamie asks about Ste's sandwhich

> and Ste replies, "Cheese and salad- bang on food"

>

> Now that I understand.

I go with David here.

> But what does it mean when he says it's good for your spots?

>

> At first when Ste said it I thought he was talking about weightlifting-

>

> but then it sounds like Jamie says, "...something garble .......spots?

>

> Then Ste mumbles something I didn't quite understand to which Jamie

> responds,

> "Cheers"

Here they both mean spots, or pimpel if you like. The dialog was (I am

not sure of the correct words but of the meaning):

Jamie says: You have no spots.

Ste replys: Yours geting better.

And than Jamie not much happy: Cheers!

<g> Jamie is not verry happy then. Thats normal who of us likes the one

he falls for remark our own defects. I don't. I am sure.

I understand it this way after seeing the dubted german version.

It is an play upon words not posible in german. So here they are alwys

talking about pimpels.

The translation is.

Ste: Good against pimpel and anyway.

Jamie says: You have no pimpels.

Ste replys: Yours geting better.

And than Jamie not much happy: Hurrah!

:-( not so funny like the english version.

But we have jokes the original does not have. :-)

Draw Level!

Regards

Meinolf