Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:33:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric
Subject: Aussie Poster Link

Hi Again,

Well, I took the time to put up a link to the OZ poster on my website.

Go to the 'Beautiful Thing' section, and click on the link to 'The Play'.
Along with the other info on the Australian production, you'll see a link
for The Poster.

You can still go directly to it, if you like:

Enjoy!

-Eric
*****************************************************

From: "Chris
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:34:54 +0000
Subject: Digests of the mailing list.

I have been testing for the last few days a facility of my mailing
list software that allows me to produce a single email with the
contents of a days worth of posting to the list.

If you would like to recieve a digest of the mailing list please send
an email with the subject "set digest" to:

this will send you a digest along with your normal mail copies of the
list which is probably not much use, so you can also stop recieveing
the standard mailings by sending a message with the subject "set
nomail" to the list address.

You can turn the digest of by sending an email with the subject "set
nodigest" to the list address. You can also turn back on you
reciept of normall emails fromt he list by sending a message with the
subject "set mail" to the list address.

If the above confuses you there is some better word information on
the commands available by sending a message to the list address
with the subject "HELP"

As always if you have any problems with this or any other aspect of
the mailing list please feel free to contact me.

--
Chris

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:05:28 -0600
From: Gary
Subject: Re: HBO??

I subscribe to several movie channels and I suspect that Cinemax, which
is owned by HBO, will eventually show BT. It might help to go to their
web sites and e-mail a request.
Cinemax has a weekly timeslot called "Vanguard Cinema" where they
show
foreign films and American independent films, many with gay themes. It
would be the perfect outlet for BT.
I don't have the URLs handy, but check my website listed below and
you
can click on the links there to HBO, Cinemax and Showtime.

Gary

*****************************************************

From: mermatt
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:57:48 -0500
Subject: Helping a gay sailor

I know this is off topic, but it is not really in that BT is about
standing up for who you are. As you may know, a pettyofficer in the US
Navy is being hounded by the government because they snooped into his
AOL private profile and found that he was gay. THEY violated the silly
"Don't ask don't tell" policy by snooping -- they ASKED. If you wish to
email the President and other govt officials, you can do so easily by
using the following site: http://www.hrc.org/mcveigh
We have to stand up to homophobia whenever it shows up. If that isn't
what BT is about, I'm mistaken. Thanks for listening. MATT

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:11:38 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Sigh!!

Sandra wrote:

>Andy, now it's you the one who's doing the counting!!! Enjoy it!!
>Oh, what a sweet torture, do you think? :)
>
>
Yes, I now know what you had to go through for all those weeks. It's kinda
like pregnancy, don't you think?

>P.S. Have you seen Scott Neal's picture in the French site? My jaw fell
>open and I'm still trying to close it up!! God, I've never seen anything
so
>beautiful!!! Oh Scott, please, marry me!!!
>
NO, NOT HER, "MEEEEE"!!!!

Are you refering to the picture of Scott in the police uniform from "The
Bill" or the yummy one of him with the blond bits in this hair? (BTW,I
love
blondes!)

42 days and counting...

Love ya, Sandra

Andy.

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:11:38 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Sigh!!

Sandra wrote:

>Andy, now it's you the one who's doing the counting!!! Enjoy it!!
>Oh, what a sweet torture, do you think? :)
>
>
Yes, I now know what you had to go through for all those weeks. It's kinda
like pregnancy, don't you think?

>P.S. Have you seen Scott Neal's picture in the French site? My jaw fell
>open and I'm still trying to close it up!! God, I've never seen anything
so
>beautiful!!! Oh Scott, please, marry me!!!
>
NO, NOT HER, "MEEEEE"!!!!

Are you refering to the picture of Scott in the police uniform from "The
Bill" or the yummy one of him with the blond bits in this hair? (BTW,I
love
blondes!)

42 days and counting...

Love ya, Sandra

Andy.

--

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:31:28 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: HBO??

Hi Donald,

For some reason I can't help myself today...replying to most of the
postings on the list, which I don't normally do.

You brought up an interesting point about fighting for fairness and
equallity. When Jonathan Harvey wrote Beautiful Thing it was partly in
protest at the unequal age of consent laws in Britian. Writing, what was
then only a stage play, about two underage boys falling in love, Harvey
expressed his anger and outrage through his play. When the film was made,
there had been a change in government and the age of consent was lowered
to
18, but apparently this is still two years higher than heterosexual
consent
laws.

Maybe the Brits on the list can fill in more here, as this is only based
on
information from a magazine article that's two years old.

As for HBO, why not ring them and ask them if they plan to show BT.

>Oh, PLEEEEASE tell me HBO is picking up BT in the United States!?!?! That
>would make so many people over here happy and may actually help the
>populations understand each other. In my city, our wondeful politicians
have
>recently decided to NOT pass a 'fairness ordinance.' In this ordinance,
there
>was an extension of equal housing and employment extended to gays.
Meaning
>that we could not be declined housing because of our spousal interests,
nor
>could we be declined a job or even fired from one due to our sexuality.
this
>was the original request...then it got watered down to include businesses
>except church and kid based organizations like daycares. (Cause you know
we
>are all pedophiles! Sarcasm in that) So, this movie would show, hopefully,
to
>millions of people that this lifestyle is just like any other, except it
is
>made harder by the closed-minded people.
>
>I know that probably none of that makes since and I am sorry for
preaching to
>the choir, I just am young and already afraid that I will not be able to
live
>my life openly because I work with youth! Sorry.
>
>Hope HBO Takes the initiative and proactive approach...otherwise we are
simply
>going to have to bond together and MAKE them!
>
>Later,
>Donald

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:56:47 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Aussie Poster Link

Wow, thanks Eric for the poster link.

Geewhiz, Michael, where did you find these cutties!!!!

I don't mean to sound like an AbFab Patsy, but they are
drop dead "GORGEOUS" :))

Andy.
(with tongue dripping)

42 days to go and counting....

>Hi Again,
>
>Well, I took the time to put up a link to the OZ poster on my website.
>
>
>Go to the 'Beautiful Thing' section, and click on the link to 'The Play'.
>Along with the other info on the Australian production, you'll see a link
>for The Poster.
>
>You can still go directly to it, if you like:
>
>Enjoy!
>
>-Eric

--

*****************************************************

From: "Chris
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:00:12 +0000
Subject: Re: HBO??
Priority: normal

> Hi Donald,
>
> For some reason I can't help myself today...replying to most of the
> postings on the list, which I don't normally do.
>
> You brought up an interesting point about fighting for fairness and
> equallity. When Jonathan Harvey wrote Beautiful Thing it was partly
> in protest at the unequal age of consent laws in Britian. Writing,
> what was then only a stage play, about two underage boys falling in
> love, Harvey expressed his anger and outrage through his play. When
> the film was made, there had been a change in government and the age
> of consent was lowered to 18, but apparently this is still two years
> higher than heterosexual consent laws.
>
> Maybe the Brits on the list can fill in more here, as this is only
> based on information from a magazine article that's two years old.
Yeah it's still the same. The current homosexual age of consent is
18, while the hetrosexual AOC is 16. The current government has
promised a free vote in parliment about the issue, hopefully some
time this year. The vast majority of the labour party (our current
ruling party) voted for the AOC to be 16 the last time it came up.
So things look good. (We'll ignore the fact that the NEC (National
Executive Council) of the labour party voted for the inclusion of the
lowering of the AOC to 16 in the maifesto, with a record 92% of them
voting to lower it (thats the largest % of votes for any issue,
ever.) and therefore that the cuirrent labour party should actually
not have a free vote but be under a 3 line whip (3 line whip 3D you
vote with the party on this or you're out) as they would be for any
other issue that the NEC backed like that. With 170+ majority it
would be a walk over, even if the entire opposition opposed it. I
suppose we'll have to wait and see.)[1]

[1] Eeeeeek! Sorry about that, but it's one of my pet issues with
the labour party, and is making me reconsider my membership.

Hugs
--
Chris

*****************************************************

From: "Chris
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:02:32 +0000
Subject: Re: New Bloke!

> Hi, I'm new to the list and yes, I also love Beautiful Thing. Oh,
> and yeah, My name's Paul.
Hiya Paul
Welcome to the list.
>
> First off, I'll tell you that I'm from Canada and second off, well,
> you can find absolutely everything about me out here:

/me likes Canadians :-)

>
Where did I put that web browser?

>
> or skip right to my very own Beautiful Thing Page here:
>
> ml
>
> Enjoy and let me know what you think. B'bye for now from one queer
> bloke to a bunch of others!
>
>

--
Chris

*****************************************************

From: "Chris
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:05:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Sigh!!
> >P.S. Have you seen Scott Neal's picture in the French site? My jaw
fell
> >open and I'm still trying to close it up!! God, I've never seen
anything so
> >beautiful!!! Oh Scott, please, marry me!!!
> >
> NO, NOT HER, "MEEEEE"!!!!

NO, NOT EITHER OF 'EM, HAVE "MEEEEEEEEEE" I'M CUTER!!! :)
>
> Are you refering to the picture of Scott in the police uniform from
> "The Bill" or the yummy one of him with the blond bits in this hair?
> (BTW,I love blondes!)

I'll have to dig out the photos I have of Glen and Scott sometime,
Scott has really cute spiked hair :-)
--
Chris

*****************************************************

From: "Ben
Subject: A story from a Friend.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:22:22 +0000 (GMT)

ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING
Jerry was the kind of guy you love to hate. He was always in a good
mood and always had something positive to say. When someone would ask
him how he was doing, he would reply, "If I were any better, I would
be twins!"

He was a unique manager because he had several waiters who had
followed him around from restaurant to restaurant. The reason the
waiters followed Jerry was because of his attitude. He was a natural
motivator. If an employee was having a bad day, Jerry was there
telling the employee how to look on the positive side of the
situation.

Seeing this style really made me curious, so one day I went up to
Jerry and asked him, "I don't get it! You can't be a positive person
all of the time. How do you do it?"

Jerry replied, "Each morning I wake up and say to myself, 'Jerry, you
have two choices today. You can choose to be in a good mood or you can
choose to be in a bad mood.' I choose to be in a good mood. Each time
something bad happens, I can choose to be a victim or I can choose to
learn from it. I choose to learn from it. Every time someone comes to
me complaining, I can choose to accept their complaining or I can
point out the positive side of life. I choose the positive side of
life."

"Yeah, right, it's not that easy," I protested.

"Yes, it is," Jerry said. "Life is all about choices. When you cut
away all the junk, every situation is a choice. You choose how you
react to situations. You choose how people will affect your mood. You
choose to be in a good mood or bad mood. The bottom line: It's your
choice how you live life."

I reflected on what Jerry said. Soon thereafter, I left the restaurant
industry to start my own business. We lost touch, but I often thought
about him when I made a choice about life instead of reacting to it.

Several years later, I heard that Jerry did something you are never
supposed to do in a restaurant business: he left the back door open
one morning and was held up at gunpoint by three armed robbers. While
trying to open the safe, his hand, shaking from nervousness, slipped
off the combination. The robbers panicked and shot him. Luckily, Jerry
was found relatively quickly and rushed to the local trauma center.

After 18 hours of surgery and weeks of intensive care, Jerry was
released from the hospital with fragments of the bullets still in his
body.

I saw Jerry about six months after the accident. When I asked him how
he was, he replied, "If I were any better, I'd be twins. Wanna see my
scars?"

I declined to see his wounds, but did ask him what had gone through
his mind as the robbery took place. "The first thing that went through
my mind was that I should have locked the back door," Jerry replied.
"Then, as I lay on the floor, I remembered that I had two choices: I
could choose to live, or I could choose to die. I chose to live."

"Weren't you scared? Did you lose consciousness?" I asked.

Jerry continued, "The paramedics were great. They kept telling me I
was going to be fine. But when they wheeled me into the emergency room
and I saw the expressions on the faces of the doctors and nurses, I
got really scared. In their eyes, I read, 'He's a dead man.'

"I knew I needed to take action."

"What did you do?" I asked.

"Well, there was a big, burly nurse shouting questions at me," said
Jerry. "She asked if I was allergic to anything. 'Yes,' I replied. The
doctors and nurses stopped working as they waited for my reply. I took
a deep breathe and yelled, 'Bullets!' Over their laughter, I told
them. 'I am choosing to live. Operate on me as if I am alive, not
dead."

Jerry lived thanks to the skill of his doctors, but also because of
his amazing attitude. I learned from him that every day we have the
choice to live fully. Attitude, after all, is everything.

You have 2 choices now:

1. save or delete this mail from your mail box.
2. forward it to anyone you care about.

* Hope you will choose choice 2.

I got this this morning and thought you would all appreciate it.

Speak to you soon!!

Ben. xxxxx

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:41:02 +0100
From: jmcs
Subject: Re: New Bloke and Sigh!!

Hi everybody!!

First of all, Paul, very welcome to the list!!! This is getting better
and
better every day!! :)

At 15:11 23/01/98 +1100, A very drooling and cheeky (I like it!!) Andy
wrote:

>>Andy, now it's you the one who's doing the counting!!! Enjoy it!!
>>Oh, what a sweet torture, do you think? :)

>Yes, I now know what you had to go through for all those weeks. It's
kinda
>like pregnancy, don't you think?

I have no way to know. I've never been pregnant before! To me it was
more
like that deceased Swedish group named 'Europe' (I loved them!!! SNIFF!)
who sang 'The Final Countdown'. :)

>>P.S. Have you seen Scott Neal's picture in the French site? My jaw
fell
>>open and I'm still trying to close it up!! God, I've never seen
anything so
>>beautiful!!! Oh Scott, please, marry me!!!

>NO, NOT HER, "MEEEEE"!!!!

Let's not get childish, please... MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

>Are you referring to the picture of Scott in the police uniform from "The
>Bill" or the yummy one of him with the blond bits in this hair? (BTW,I
love
>blondes!)

"The Bill", definitely!! I also like blonds (and brown, and dark...) but
in
Scott's case, I think his natural colour suits him better. (IMO, of
course!!)

Besides, Scott's blond picture with Glen behind him embracing him is mine.
<G>
I sent it to Eric (Hi, Eric!). It was published in a Spanish newspaper in
October, 1996.

>42 days and counting...

Enjoy your countdown. I miss mine already!! (sigh!)

>Love ya, Sandra

Love ya too, Andy.

Take care.

Sandra.

*****************************************************

From: John
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:40:54 EST
Subject: Scott

I spoke to Scott's management company today, to find out about publicity
shots
etc. and if there was any way that I could get hold of a 10"x8" photo of
him.
Scott's management said that they can't unfortunately send these out, as
Scott
pays for the photo's himself, and only has 25 printed at one time.
She did, however refer me to "The Bill" offices, and I will see what they
can
do, but they are 'at lunch' at the moment.
However, I have been told by Scott's management company that the contract
with
'The Bill' is a long contract, and also an exclusive one (ie he cannot do
any
other work whilst working on the bill). He will become a major player in
the
series...

Cya all....

John

*****************************************************

From: Le
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:16:52 EST
Subject: Re: Helping a gay sailor

Right on, Matt. PlanetOut has a page with loads of links devoted to the
McVeigh case... Check it out at: www.planetout.com

Steve
--

*****************************************************

From: DC
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:06:07 EST
Subject: Re: Sigh!!

In a message dated 98-01-22 13:27:10 EST, Sandra wrote:

<<
P.S. Have you seen Scott Neal's picture in the French site? My jaw fell
open and I'm still trying to close it up!! God, I've never seen anything
so
beautiful!!! Oh Scott, please, marry me!!! >>

Scott really does have a great picture -- a man in uniform is always
appealing!

Does anybody know about his movie "Wonderland" and when it might make an
appearance - also the film Glen is supposed to be in?

The Internate Movie Database has a description for Wonderland - but says
it's
a documentary about a housing development in the US. There must be two
movies
of the same name.

Dirk
--

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:10:19 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: New Bloke!

Chris, our cute leader, wrote in response to Paul's first posting here:

>/me likes Canadians :-)
>
>>

Hey Christopher, you're not in ircey dirkey land here bud!

Plus I spotted him first, hands off!!! :)

Andy.xxx

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:15:28 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy <ajs@vision.net.au>
Subject: Re: Sigh!!

Chris, in a panic responded to Sandra and me:

>> >P.S. Have you seen Scott Neal's picture in the French site? My jaw
fell
>> >open and I'm still trying to close it up!! God, I've never seen
>>anything so
>> >beautiful!!! Oh Scott, please, marry me!!!
>> >
>> NO, NOT HER, "MEEEEE"!!!!
>
>NO, NOT EITHER OF 'EM, HAVE "MEEEEEEEEEE" I'M CUTER!!! :)

Now this is getting greed. You can't have two guys at once! ...although
I'm
sure you're quite accustomed to threesomes!!! :)

Andy.xxx

--

*****************************************************

From: Paul
Subject: Re: New Bloke and Sigh!!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:46:36 -0000

>First of all, Paul, very welcome to the list!!! This is getting better
and
>better every day!! :)

Thanks a lot, I'm mighty happy to be here. I take this oportunity to say
hi
to everyone.

- Paul

*****************************************************

From: Le
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:48:33 EST
Subject: Re: A story from a Friend.

Thanks for the uplifting Story, Ben...

I've already forwarded it onto someone I care about and am printint it out
for
another...

Steve
--

*****************************************************

From: mermat
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:58:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Helping a gay sailor

Thanks, Steve. We need to keep fighting bigotry whenever it shows up.
Love, MATT

*****************************************************

From: Donald
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:16:33 EST
Subject: Bigotry

First, Ben, thanks for the uplifting story. I have already forwarded it to
many internet and AOL friends...will keep it in my archives to be sent.
(Also
to be included in my page, if I can?)

Secondly, can anyone help me on how to fight bigotry? I am very serious
about
this. In my line of work, or profession if you will, if you are gay, you
are
automatically presumed to be a pedophile and are "removed from direct
contact
with all youth." I know this to be true. This train of thought is totally
absurd to me! You have many older males gawking and hooting at young girls
younger than their youngest daughters...yet we are the peds? So, in
dealing
with this reality, how can we fight it? I am interested in everybody's
responses, if you do not want to respond to the entire list, just send me
a
private email. PLEASE help me on this.

Thanks guys (and gals)
Donald
--

*****************************************************

From: Finsleft
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:04:31 EST
Subject: Re: A story from a Friend.

Hi Everyone,

Wow! Great story Ben. Rest assured it's
been saved and forwarded already.

Thanks,
Dave (another lurker)
--

*****************************************************

From: "Kent ."
Subject: So Many Names it Makes My Little Head Spin!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:15:38 PST

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Paul Roberts (no relation-- so far as I know!!!),
wrote:
>
>Thanks a lot, I'm mighty happy to be here. I take this oportunity to
say hi
>to everyone.
>
> - Paul

Well, then, "Hi Paul", and (to Paul Vaters), um, "Hi, Paul!!"

I hope everybody who may have come aboard recently will feel free to
share their thoughts about whatever they like, and especially about
anything in the movie (or play, for those with the stagescript) that
piqued their interest or prompted a reaction. I have had the good
fortune to be able to read posts written to this list, as well as many
posted to its predecessor (Thanks Eternal, Sandra, my dear one!)-- for
the newer subscribers, I am referring to the mailing list still cited
on
Davie's "Beautiful Thing by Jonathan Harvey" WebSite-- on a number of
BT-related topics, many of which had *very* interesting threads of
discussion. I'd like to invite all to talk about *anything*, and not
worry if some questions may have been discussed before-- for sure, the
issue you are interested in discussing, whatever it may be, has not
been
discussed before with YOU, and I, for one, (and I know I am not alone
in
this) look forward to hearing everyone's opinions!

Kent
always glad to be part of this list! 

*****************************************************

From: Paul
Subject: Re: New Bloke!
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:09:55 -0000

>Chris, our cute leader, wrote in response to Paul's first posting here:
>
>/me likes Canadians :-)

Sorry guys, just one to get this straight: is that Paul supposed to be me?
Because I'm not Canadian. How many Pauls are there on the list?

- Paul

--

*****************************************************

From: Paul
Subject: Re: A story from a Friend.
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:14:15 -0000

>Wow! Great story Ben. Rest assured it's
>been saved and forwarded already.

I have heard so much about this story, could anyone forward it to me?

Thanks,
- Paul

*****************************************************

From: Paul
Subject: Something annoying me...
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:18:49 -0000

HI there.

I just wonder if I could ask a small question about BT. I have seen the
film
five times now, and I still can't understand what happens at the following
dialog:

Sandra: "You know what I'm gonna do now do'ncha"
Jamie: "Juggle wiv'um?"

And then she begins to throw loads of toys in the bin?!

[Thanks for your patience with my slow start on the list...]

- Paul

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:21:26 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: New Bloke!

>>Chris, our cute leader, wrote in response to Paul's first posting here:
>>
>>/me likes Canadians :-)
>
>
>Sorry guys, just one to get this straight: is that Paul supposed to be
me?
>Because I'm not Canadian. How many Pauls are there on the list?
>
> - Paul
>
Hi Paul,
If your you're new here, welcome. Chris and myself were refering to a new
Canadian member to the list (Paul d. Vaters - sretav@spectranet.ca).

Andy.

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:33:37 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Beta Testing #2

Hi gang, this is rather embarrassing. I incorrectly credited Aaron with
picking faults with my html work. Well, it's a nice name..it got stuck in
my head.

So, in reality, thanks must go to Paul, our new Canadian scribe.

On top of all that...I posted this to the wrong list!!!!!

So now everyone knows what the other is doing...i need a drink!

Andy.

*****************************************************

From: mermatt
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:40:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Bigotry

One way to fight it is to set an example of a person who does not fit
the old stereotype. And never allow yourself to be baited into getting
defensive about who you are. MATT

*****************************************************

From: "Chris
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:51:42 +0000
Subject: Re: Bigotry

[SNIP]
> Secondly, can anyone help me on how to fight bigotry? I am very
> serious about this. In my line of work, or profession if you will,
> if you are gay, you are automatically presumed to be a pedophile and
> are "removed from direct contact with all youth." I know this to be
> true.

What is your line of work Donald? I used to do a bit of teaching,
and it was always made clear to the staff and Govners of the school
that I was Gay. Never had any problems at all. Nobody had a
proiblem with me helping the 4-8 year olds get changed after there
swimming lessons. I think they were actually glad that I could keep
the boys under control.

laters
--
Chris

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:44:51 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Something annoying me...

Paul  wrote:
>HI there.
>
>I just wonder if I could ask a small question about BT. I have seen the
film
>five times now, and I still can't understand what happens at the
following
>dialog:
>
>Sandra: "You know what I'm gonna do now do'ncha"
>Jamie: "Juggle wiv'um?"
>

According to pages 7 and 8 of the BT screenplay, Sandra comes in the room
with a bag of tangarines and begins to put them in a fruit bowl. Sandra
admires her fruit bowl arrangement them looks at Jamie and says...

"You know what I'm gonna do now, dontcha"

Jamie looks at the Tangerines and quick wittedly says...

"Juggle with 'em!"

>And then she begins to throw loads of toys in the bin?!

I wondered about the 'toy trashing' myself, and posted something to the
list a few months back, but can't find it in the hundreds of list messages
I have on file. But seeing you only just got here I better make a fresh
stab at it...

IMO, Sandra is convinced that Jamie is not the fathering type...and this
starts the first subconsious thinking by Sandra that Jamie *might* be gay.

There are other bits in the film that support my theory...like when Sandra
lets Ste in the front door to see Jamie (to present him with the hat) she
(Sandra) looks out the door to see if anybody had witnessed Ste entering
the flat.

Last time, others on the list disagreed with me, but it's only my opinion.
:)

Andy.
ps..excuse my bad spelling, my Australian Oxford Mini Dictionary has pages
475-506 missing and goes from "stub to "tom-tom"!!!

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From: "Ben
Subject: Re: Something annoying me...
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:08:19 +0000 (GMT)

> IMO, Sandra is convinced that Jamie is not the fathering type...and this
> starts the first subconsious thinking by Sandra that Jamie *might* be
gay.
Jamie says that "She's taking it out on the cupboard, throwing away all
the things I had when I was a kid." Later Jamie says "I'm never having
Kids" to which Leah replies: "Kids are cunts".

Speak to you soon!!

Ben. xxxxx

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From: "Kent ."
Subject: Re: Something annoying me...
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:16:52 PST

On Jan 24, Paul wrote (as if he
read my "invitation to discuss stuff" post before I wrote it myself--
maybe there's a psychic connection here!! :)) :

>HI there.

Hiya!

>I just wonder if I could ask a small question about BT. I have seen
the
film
>five times now, and I still can't understand what happens at the
following
>dialog:
>
>Sandra: "You know what I'm gonna do now do'ncha"
>Jamie: "Juggle wiv'um?"
>
>And then she begins to throw loads of toys in the bin?!
>
>[Thanks for your patience with my slow start on the list...]

Please don't worry-- nobody's timing things! :) And of course you can
ask questions (we're all on equal footing on this list-- except for
Chris, the Grand Poohbah! <G> -- so no one would presume to tell you
what to do) -- that's what makes for lively discussions!

> - Paul

I am so glad you raise this point. What Sandra is doing is throwing
out Jamie's toys, the ones she has been ostensibly saving for her
grandchildren. But what I find interesting to ponder is this: why
does she do it NOW? (well, "now" in the movie). All that has happened
is that Sandra knows Jamie has again skipped PE. Is it the first hint
the audience is supposed to feel that Sandra in some way suspects Jamie
(since he is adamantly averse to sports, along with whatever other
clues
Jamie has given this "knowing mother") might be gay? Or, maybe, is it
her reaction to the fact that Jamie continues to be defiant (by deciding

to skip PE), and her acknowledging that Jamie's
rebelliousness/independence is an indication that he is now becoming an
adult? In other words, she realizes he's not her "baby" any more?
But the action seems extreme, given the context-- she throws out ALL
his
toys *now*? (Although, since the movie has to condense a lot into its
short running time, it is normal for *every* scene to be there for A
Reason-- and the play condenses the same action even more.) I'd be
interested to know the consensus of Michael and his cast (and Benjo,
and his cast, too!) on this one.

Kent

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From: "Kent ."
Subject: Speedy Ben
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:30:28 PST

At the same time I was typing my previous post, asking him for his
opinion, Ben posted (and Andy has in essence concurred
in thinking) that:

>
>> IMO, Sandra is convinced that Jamie is not the fathering type...and
this
>> starts the first subconsious thinking by Sandra that Jamie *might*
be
gay.
>Jamie says that "She's taking it out on the cupboard, throwing away
all
>the things I had when I was a kid." Later Jamie says "I'm never having
>Kids" to which Leah replies: "Kids are cunts".
>
>Speak to you soon!!
>
>Ben. xxxxx

Ben, thanks for answering me even before my direct request for your
opinion was posted!! I wonder if
Sandra's "thinking order" might not be the reverse, possibly, of what
you suggest, i.e., maybe Sandra *first* thinks that Jamie might be gay,
and *therefore* he isn't the fathering type. But her trashing of the
toys still seems to come at the audience fairly suddenly, all the
same...

BTW, is the play of BT you were directing still in progress?

Kent 

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From: Eric
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:42:32
Subject: You know what I'm gonna do now.....

I think this is Sandra's way of showing who is in control. My mother
always threatened to throw away my comic books. Eventually, she actually

went ahead and did it, just like Sandra is doing with Jamie's things.

Sandra is showing her disapproval of Jamie's skipping school and giving
her "smart" answers but throwing away his old stuff he was saving. I
doubt
very much that she suspects him of being Gay at this point. There is
nothing (to my mind) to indicate that.

Best,

Eric

*****************************************************

From: jmcs
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:14:39 +0000
Subject: Re: Something annoying me...

> From: jmcs
> Subject: Something annoying me...
> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:18:49 -0000

Paul wrote:

> HI there.
>
> I just wonder if I could ask a small question about BT. I have seen the
film
> five times now, and I still can't understand what happens at the
following
> dialog:
>
> Sandra: "You know what I'm gonna do now do'ncha"
> Jamie: "Juggle wiv'um?"

The joke is that while Sandra and Jamie have been talking about
Jamie's bunking off, Sandra has been filling a bowl with tangerines
and when, exasperated, Sandra aks Jamie: "You know what I'm gonna do
now, duntcha?", Jamie, looking at the tangerines and the pyramid
shape of the formation, answers: "Juggle with'em?" It's a joke.

> And then she begins to throw loads of toys in the bin?!

Apparently, that was the punishment Sandra had in mind, what she was
gonna do, in her own words.

> [Thanks for your patience with my slow start on the list...]

No problem. Anytime. I also had problems with British slang. Ask
anything you want. :)

Take care.

Sandra.

*****************************************************

From: Le
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:06:30 EST
Subject: Re: Something annoying me...

That part sort of confused me too but in the Stageplay of BT we find Jamie
saying the following: "She's taking it out of the cupboard. Throwin'
away
everything I was saving for my kids. Books, toys. I don't want kids."

I guess Sandra is thinking that if Jamie is old enough to cut class, she
can
start throwing away his baby-toys...

That's my take on it. Would like to see other input.

Steve
--

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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:06:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike
Subject: Re: Something annoying me...

Hi Everyone,

Yes, I'm still here. Lurking mostly...

We've discussed the question Paul asks before, albeit quite a while back.
Sandra is sorting through and throwing out Jamie's toys. Jamie explains to
Leah that she'd been saving them for his kids, but he doesn't want
kids...

There is a lot going on here, depending on how deeply you want to think
about it. On the most obvious level, BT is about Jamie's relationship to
Ste. But there's more. It's also about Jamie's relationship to Sandra but,
even more importantly, it is about his relationship with himself. Taken
all together, BT (IMO) is rally about Jamie's own self-awakening,
self-acceptence and all that follows from that: his growing love for Ste,
his maturing relationship with his mom, and his developing self-worth and
confidence. In the last scene it is Jamie who invites Ste to step into the
full view of the world (a courageous act). True, Sandra and Leah soon
follow to kind of 'guard' him/them, but it was Jamie who felt confident
enough to innniate it.

Jamie left school because he didn't want to play football. Why should he
do something he doesn't want to do? It isn't him. He then has a somewhat
contetious exchange with Sandra who confronts him about this but he stands
his ground. Jamie no longer wants to be treated like a child.

So Sandra is sorting through and throwing out his toys, the childhood
things he no longer needs. This, aparently, is fine with Jamie; it is
Sandra who pauses over the teddy bear for a moment, reflecting on the
little tyke Jamie used to be (and in some ways still is to her). All this
comes out after Sandra confronts Jamie on going to the Gloucster in her
speach to Tony on the Balcony. Tony is right, she IS, "figtn' it"--but
she's accepting it, too. After all, although Jamie innitiated going to the
Gloucster with Ste, it is Sandra who innitiates his coming out to her--a
break through for both of them.

One of the Beautiful Things about BT is that it has these levels of inner
tension and consistancy.

M>

At 10:18 AM +0000 1/24/98, Paul  wrote:
>HI there.
>
>I just wonder if I could ask a small question about BT. I have seen the
film
>five times now, and I still can't understand what happens at the
following
>dialog:
>
>Sandra: "You know what I'm gonna do now do'ncha"
>Jamie: "Juggle wiv'um?"
>
>And then she begins to throw loads of toys in the bin?!
>
>[Thanks for your patience with my slow start on the list...]
>
> - Paul
>
>--

Mike

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:21:44 -0600
From: Gary
Subject: Re: Bigotry

Donald wrote:
>
> Secondly, can anyone help me on how to fight bigotry? I am very serious
about
> this. In my line of work, or profession if you will, if you are gay, you
are
> automatically presumed to be a pedophile and are "removed from direct
contact
> with all youth." I know this to be true. This train of thought is
totally
> absurd to me! You have many older males gawking and hooting at young
girls
> younger than their youngest daughters...yet we are the peds? So, in
dealing
> with this reality, how can we fight it? I am interested in everybody's
> responses, if you do not want to respond to the entire list, just send
me a
> private email. PLEASE help me on this.
>
> Thanks guys (and gals)
> Donald

What "line of work" are you involved in, Donald? Of course what
you
mention is not that uncommon an occurrence, unfortunately.
One of the things that attracts so many of us to stories like BT
is
that we can, if you'll excuse the Bill Clinton-type cliche, "feel the
pain" of those two boys as they are misunderstood. We've felt that pain
so many times ourselves. Even our so-called "friends" who claim to
support us still are suspicious of us. My sister's family was the first
I came out to and they were quite supportive but I later found out that
my brother-in-law didn't want his son (my nephew) coming to visit the
college I teach at, at least not coming alone, because I was gay. That
really hurt.
Anyhow, although my "public" website is always included in my
e-mail
sig, I have another site that contains GLB resources of all kinds, as
well as a page of gay guys' homepages. Y'all are welcome to check it
out and make suggestions for additions.
Gary

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