Email Archive Page 84

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:28:36 -0700
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?
From: "DJK"

Ummm, THAT party?

Is there a day by day follow through from the night Ste goes to the
boxing with his dad and brother through to the infamous party? If
so, boxing Saturday night. Ste stays with Jamie the same night
(Sat) and Leah sees Ste leave early Sunday morning when she returns
early Sunday from having painted the town red the previous night.
Party Sunday night. Sandra can't have worked. By the time Sandra
arrives at the house to "crown" Leah she has just got out of the
bath (her hair is more or less still wet) and no way would she go to
work at post 10 pm on Sunday night, esp. considering the pubs close
at 10.30/11.00. Re: Jamie's purchase of gay times in the corner
shop. Corner shops open on Sunday for the Sunday papers, so no
problem there. Call me old-fashioned but Ste was probably doing the
washing because, as every good housewife knows, Monday is wash day!
Sandra's comment about "tips last night". Who knows, with her
working hours it's no surprise she was confused! Though I agree
that she probably said it just to get Ste to take the money. A
throw-away phrase. Not that all this is particularly important.
The essence of the film certainly doesn't lie in its timing.
Interesting though. Thank you Kent and everyone who contributed.

"You have to know cold to appreciate warmth" Said by Jeanne Moreau
(my fav. actress on Rub Wax (BBC2 last night"

David.

>From: "Eric
>Date: 07/07/98 08:07:25
>Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?
>
>
>>It's too early for BT research, (racing to get ready for work, but
>>couldn't ignore these responses to my query), but why is it
>definite
>>that Sandra didn't work the night of the party? In the UK, pubs
>close
>>at 11, but couldn't the party have started after that, meaning
>Sandra
>>had time to work, get loads of tips, come home to find Jamie going
>out,
>>need that nice bath, etc, all on the same night?
>
>OK, Kent.... not likely that Jamie would be going out after 11:00.
>For
>Sandra to have been home from work already before Jamie went out,
>it would
>have to be pushing midnight. When Jamie (in the previous scene)
>looks out
>his window and sees Ste and his friends heading toward the party
>(one might
>assume they were heading to the party) it was still light out.
>Also, on
>Jamie's exit to the party he says "I won't be late" and Sandra says
>"I
>know." If it was 11:00 - 12:00 it would *already* be late! And
>remember,
>when Jamie comes in late from the Gloucester it's "half one" and
>she is
>angry he was out so late. Therefore, I doubt that she would allow
>him to go
>out after 11:00.
>
>I think it perfectly reasonable to assume that the "Nolene" scene
>is not
>the next morning after the party. Jamie seems to have had some time
>to
>adjust to Ste's vicious "Get your fucking queer hands off me!" and
>put it
>in proper perspective, and both boys are definitely dressed for
>school. It
>does seem unlikely that the party would be on a school night.
>
>
*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:51:16 -0500
From: Gary
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

Brian wrote:
>
> At 10:26 07/07/98 PDT, you wrote:

> A note of speakers of American English. A public school in the British
> sense is a type of private school. (Yeah
> its crazy I know.) A grammar school is a high school with an entrance exam
> (mostly privately run, these days.)
> Public schools in the American sense are called "State schools."
>
> appologies if you knew all that already,

That's pretty much the way I'd understood it. It is confusing and
probably another reason y'all lost the empire. <G>

Seriously, though, since many of us used the "English to American" slang
list to get through the film, are there American films that Brits feel
they also need a translation for?

Gary
--
*****************************************************

From: DLawr
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:05:03 EDT
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

Enough already!

Right, my turn. Having grown up on a council estate in London, you must
believe me when I say that a party like that could happen on any night of the
week, not just a Friday or Saturday, especially during the Summer. Many's the
night when my sleep was interrupted by party noise from other parts of my
estate and people spilling out from the flat where it was being held.

So, it could have all have happened on any day. The next scenes are definitely
on a school day. We don't know in the film whether Ste went to school that day
or not, unlike in the play when we know that he didn't. He's certainly in his
school uniform, anyway.

On a different note, thanks Kent for your recent piece - beautiful as ever.
And a BIG welcome to the new members, I hope you gain as much enjoyment as I
have from being on the list.

See ya (wouldn't wanna be ya!)

David

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:53:56 -0500
From: Gary
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

DJK wrote:
>
> Gary,
> You have sun??! Send me some, PLEASE.....

Actually, we probably have a surplus by now. It was 100 (F) today and
supposed to get to 101 and 102 over the next few days. And not a cloud
to be seen.

Re your question about
> quintessential British nightlife. Speaking as a provincial (though I
> do live in a city) 32 year old has been it is true to say that there
> are clubs which open when the pubs close. Many of them stay open
> until 2 am and if you're over 25 then you tend to stick out like a
> vicar at a tarts party.

That can be a problem in some American gay clubs. In smaller cities,
where there are only one or two gay bars, there's quite a cross-section
of people and ages. In a city such as Atlanta, it's more specialized.
I'm older than you, but felt I fit in at both the Armory and Backstreet,
though I probably wouldn't have at Fusion. But Atlanta also has
country-western gay bars (complete with line dancing classes!),
lesbian-only bars, leather/levi bars and The Chamber, which is a fetish
club. (Bring your favorite whip! <G>)

Most people hit the clubs at the weekend
> and though I hate to admit it the times that I do venture out
> clubbing I tend to go to London or Paris. The clubs in the
> provincial cities are normally overpriced, over-rate and one often
> sticks to the carpet if you remain still for more than 30 seconds.
> Aren't you just desperate to visit some? ;-)

Oh, absolutely! :) Actually I go for the dancing and, being Pride
weekend, the clubs Tony and I went to were absolutely packed. I think I
got some bruises from flying arms.

Gary
--

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:26:00 -0700
From: tom
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Hey y'all

Especially to Jamey:

I went to a Private Christian School in Indiana for all my life and went
to a Christian college for a year. It's tough dealing with all the
shite
that a lot of people at school put you through.

I still have run-ins with my family but it gets better once you have
other gay friends.

Tom

*****************************************************

From: "Neil
Subject: btlist: Summer Rites
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:11:30 +0100

Hi all,

Please remember that Summer Rites is ticket only (Ł4 I think). If anybody
needs a ticket I can get one for them in my lunch hour/after work in Soho,
and then post it on to them. (Remember the Pride festival is definitely
cancelled on August 15th)

I live literally three minutes walk from Brockwell Park (Summer Rites
location) and may be having a pre-party drinks at 12noon, 1st August.
Anybody will be welcome. I will advise of this closer to the date but
please let me know if you would want to come.

Jamie, I feel so upset about you not going to Pride because you had nobody
to go with. Warwick is right, just shout if you need a friend.

May I also take this opportunity to welcome anybody new to the list. Happy
BTing!

(Apologies for those not involved in this and using the BT list, but hey
we're all friends aren't we?!)

Love

Neil.
x

-----Original Message-----
Warwick
Sent: 7 July 1998 17:39
Subject: Re: btlist: Merchandise etc!

Jamie
Im sure that loads of us would have loved to take you to Pride
Never be afraid to ask.
If you in London on the 1st of August we will take you to Summer Rites

Warwick

----------
> From: Jamey
> Subject: btlist: Merchandise etc!
> Date: 06 July 1998 00:46
>
> Hi everyone!
> Well this is my first go at this! Just joined the list! Pride looks
> really cool, i wanted to go this year but had no one to go with! Oh and
> while i am at it... can anyone tell me how i can get hold of any
> Beautiful Thing Merchandise, i am sure it would have done really well if
> anything had ever come about it. Is there any chance of reviving it? i
> would also like to get hold of some foreign BT posters if anyone can
> help.
> Thanks,
> Jamie
>
>
>

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:35:05 +1000
From: William
Subject: btlist: THAT PARTY & WELCOME

I'll save your e-mail lists by combining all my messages into one. I
had 39 messages waiting when I got home today.

I'M NOT COMPLAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some the messages weren't from the
BT lists - only the interesting ones were.

-----
Eric & Joshy

I'm glad I wasn't the only one puzzled by the bedroom layout. The only
solution I can think of is that maybe the flats aren't identical in
layout. They are downstairs but is it possible that upstairs the
bathrooms in neighbouring flats are back to back for plumbing reasons.
If they are then Ste and Jamie could have adjoining rooms. If not they
can't have. But for the purposes of the play they have so let's let art
overrule set design and keep Ste and Jamie close together. I'm sure
they would prefer it that way.

-------
Sandra (never hopeless I'm sure)

Thank you for your eagle eyes. I missed the clock entirely. I was too
busy watching Jamie look for Ste.

That pretty well ties it up. Sandra can't have worked that night.

------------
>From a new list member to the even newer members - WELCOME.

I've been on the list for only a week or so and I am amazed at the
number and diversity of people out there who love this film. As far as
I can work out from all those e-mail addresses and time zone differences
we seem to come from at least three continents and I don't know how many
countries.

Enjoy

William

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 06:06:16 -0700
From: Jean
Subject: Re: btlist: Hello all..

Stu wrote:

>It's an honour to see so many new folks, joining this list

My sentiments exactly Stu: welcome David, Tom, Tim, Brian (and again Joey
and Jamey and anyone else we might have missed or who might join between the
time I write this and send it which won't surprise me)!!

I find everyone's comments about how this film has affected them very moving
and always appreciate reading about it and celebrating it with you.

Thanks for the nice comments about the bt stories, Stu. Alot of heart has
gone into the writing of them and Andy has created a beautiful place to
share them on his story archive website. The concepts, styles and sentiments
are as varied as we are and it's always inspiring to see how each of us has
been touched by this play/film's theme and characters (through writing,
discussing or simply living our lives just a bit more
openly/compassionately/ecstatically since being graced by it). I saw it for
the first time several months ago and I'm still floating.

Again, welcome to all the new bt lovers. Jean.

p.s. to Neil, no need to apologize, it's a perfectly logical use of the list
to share interests/activities/etc that one feels the other list members
might enjoy or benefit from. Off topic, schmoff topic. (oops, I know I'm
thumbing my nose a bit at proper mailing list protocol and rules of
engagement, but don't banish me, please!!)

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:36:03 -0700
From: Jonathan
Subject: btlist: Blondes & Horses

A blonde decides to try horseback riding, even though she has had no
lessons or prior experience. She mounts the horse unassisted and the
horse immediately springs into motion. It gallops along at a steady and
rhythmic pace, but the blonde begins to slip from the saddle. In
terror, she grabs for the horse's mane, but cannot seem to get a firm
grip.

She tries to throw her arms around the horse's neck, but she slides down
the side of the horse anyway. The horse gallops along, seemingly
impervious to its slipping rider.

Finally, giving up her frail grip, she leaps away from the horse to try
and throw herself to safety. Unfortunately, her foot has become
intangled in the stirrup and she is now at the mercy of the horse's
pounding hooves as her head is struck against the ground again and
again. As her head is battered against the ground, she is mere moments
away from unconsciousness when........

........the Wal-Mart manager runs out to shut the horse off.

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:34:43 PDT

Hi there Gary!
I don't think so. Maybe American english has filtered into England more
than English english had filtered into America! If you understand what i
mean! Mind you i am not a great fan of American films at all so what
would i know! I understand that Americans had difficulty understanding
'Trainspotting' too so it isn't just BT.
Speak soon,
Jamie

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:43:11 PDT

Hi there Tom!
thanks, school is so bad but it is great when you realise that it isn't
just you who has to go through it all. They don't know, they just take
the piss! Ok i don't go out with girls so maybe i am giving the game
away just a little! I am so glad i have got the internet, if i couldn't
talk it through with you lot i would go mad! my mum is all right about
it so i guess that is something. I live with my mum you see. Actually
she confronted me with it just like Sandra confronted 'Jamie' in the
film! I see my dad sometimes and my mum told him. He refuses to believe
it, goes mad at the suggestion that his son may be a 'fucking pufter',
and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert me to
being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
Speak soon,
Jamey

>Hey y'all
>
>Especially to Jamey:
>
>I went to a Private Christian School in Indiana for all my life and
went
>to a Christian college for a year. It's tough dealing with all the
>shite
>that a lot of people at school put you through.
>
>I still have run-ins with my family but it gets better once you have
>other gay friends.
>
>Tom
>

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie
Subject: Re: btlist: Summer Rites
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:48:32 PDT

Dear Neal!
As a Queen in training so to speak, please excuse my ignorance but what
exactly is Summer Rites! Maybe if i read gay times it might be better,
but after my last experience of buying that i don't think i'll bother
for some time! I really wish i could have gone to pride, maybe another
year, mind you i heard that it was turning Straight or something, so it
probabally won't be as good :-(!!! Anyway i hope i am not talking
jiberish and that you don't think i am totally dumb.
Speak soon,
Jamie

>Hi all,
>
>Please remember that Summer Rites is ticket only (=A34 I think). If
anyb=
>ody
>needs a ticket I can get one for them in my lunch hour/after work in
Soho=
>,
>and then post it on to them. (Remember the Pride festival is
definitely
>cancelled on August 15th)
>
>I live literally three minutes walk from Brockwell Park (Summer Rites
>location) and may be having a pre-party drinks at 12noon, 1st August.
>Anybody will be welcome. I will advise of this closer to the date but
>please let me know if you would want to come.
>
>Jamie, I feel so upset about you not going to Pride because you had
nobod=
>y
>to go with. Warwick is right, just shout if you need a friend.
>
>May I also take this opportunity to welcome anybody new to the list.
Hap=
>py
>BTing!
>
>(Apologies for those not involved in this and using the BT list, but
hey
>we're all friends aren't we?!)
>
>Love
>
>Neil.
>x
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Warwick
>Sent: 7 July 1998 17:39
>Subject: Re: btlist: Merchandise etc!
>
>
>Jamie
>Im sure that loads of us would have loved to take you to Pride
>Never be afraid to ask.
>If you in London on the 1st of August we will take you to Summer Rites
>
>Warwick
>
>----------
>> From: Jamey
>> Subject: btlist: Merchandise etc!
>> Date: 06 July 1998 00:46
>>
>> Hi everyone!
>> Well this is my first go at this! Just joined the list! Pride looks
>> really cool, i wanted to go this year but had no one to go with! Oh
and
>> while i am at it... can anyone tell me how i can get hold of any
>> Beautiful Thing Merchandise, i am sure it would have done really well
i=
>f
>> anything had ever come about it. Is there any chance of reviving it?
i
>> would also like to get hold of some foreign BT posters if anyone can
>> help.
>> Thanks,
>> Jamie
>>
>>

*****************************************************

From: ep
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:30:33 -0400
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

>and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert me to
>being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
>Speak soon,
>Jamey

I think someone needs to tell your dad that gay men *are* real men!!

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:32:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Donald
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

If they lost the Empire, why did Canada stick with the Mother country? Yet
we're as much like the yanks as they (you) are like themselves. But, y'all
talks like a confederate. (VVBG).

On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Gary wrote:

> Brian wrote:
> >
> > At 10:26 07/07/98 PDT, you wrote:
>
> > A note of speakers of American English. A public school in the British
> > sense is a type of private school. (Yeah
> > its crazy I know.) A grammar school is a high school with an entrance exam
> > (mostly privately run, these days.)
> > Public schools in the American sense are called "State schools."
> >
> > appologies if you knew all that already,
>
> That's pretty much the way I'd understood it. It is confusing and
> probably another reason y'all lost the empire. <G>
>
> Seriously, though, since many of us used the "English to American" slang
> list to get through the film, are there American films that Brits feel
> they also need a translation for?
>
> Gary
> --
> joehardy@hardyboy.com http://www.hardyboy.com/~bayport
> "One must not use the scriptures as a drunk uses the lamp post -
> for support rather than for illumination."
> Rev. Peter J. Gomes, Harvard University's Memorial Church
>
> This message was brought to you by the Beautiful Thing mailing list (btlist)
>

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:55:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Donald
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

A lot of people in the "straight" community believe that you can spot a
gay male by the way he walks or presents himself. We're portrayed as limp
wristed and walk like girls.ItIt's a damn shame people can't admit that we
look like everybody else in society. Many of us that served in the armed
forces know that we can and do look like the other guys, even in the
showers. And we can bleed and die for our country just like the 'real men'
Don

On Wed, 8 Jul 1998 ep wrote:

>
> >and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert me to
> >being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
> >Speak soon,
> >Jamey
>
> I think someone needs to tell your dad that gay men *are* real men!!
>
> -Eric
>

*****************************************************

From: ep
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:31:54 -0400
Subject: btlist: Website update

Hi,

I've got a small update on the Edinburgh production of BT. There's a new
Leah (see her picture) as the "old" Leah had problems passing her exams!
How Leah-like!

Best,
Eric

The Play....UK section... Updated Information.

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:47:17 -0500
From: Gary
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Donald wrote:
>
> A lot of people in the "straight" community believe that you can spot a
> gay male by the way he walks or presents himself. We're portrayed as limp
> wristed and walk like girls.ItIt's a damn shame people can't admit that we
> look like everybody else in society. Many of us that served in the armed
> forces know that we can and do look like the other guys, even in the
> showers. And we can bleed and die for our country just like the 'real men'
> Don

If some of those misguided straights had been with Tony and me at the
Armory or Backstreet in Atlanta during Pride weekend, they would have
had a hard time finding "limp wrists" or effeminate guys. In fact, while
I was on the dance floor and noticing all the smooth, shirtless hunks, I
thought of what some girls I knew would be thinking if they were there
with so many definitely _male_ guys. Of course, it would be frustrating
for them since every single one of those "all-male" guys was gay. :)

Oh, did I mention the T-shirt I wore in the Pride parade? It said,
"Homophobia: n. - insecurity about being heterosexual." :)

Gary
--

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:50:23 -0500
From: Gary
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

Jamie wrote:

> I don't think so. Maybe American english has filtered into England more
> than English english had filtered into America! If you understand what i
> mean! Mind you i am not a great fan of American films at all so what
> would i know! I understand that Americans had difficulty understanding
> 'Trainspotting' too so it isn't just BT.

I've seen "Trainspotting," and I wouldn't be surprised if some British
folks might not have trouble understanding it. :) (Although I don't
really need to _understand_ Ewan MacGregor - just seeing him is enough.
<G>)

I showed BT to my summer film class and I also gave them copies of the
slang translation list to help them along.
--

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:51:37 -0500
From: Gary
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

Donald wrote:
>
> If they lost the Empire, why did Canada stick with the Mother country? Yet
> we're as much like the yanks as they (you) are like themselves. But, y'all
> talks like a confederate. (VVBG).
>
The Canadians probably wanted to revolt, but maybe it was too cold and
snowy to do so. <G>

Gary
who grew up along the US-Canadian border amidst a _lot_ of snow
--

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:01:24 -0500
From: Jan
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

Gary,

I'd really like to know a bit more about your students' reactions to the
movie, both straight and gay reactions. What is the makeup of your class?
Have you had lively discussions about? Are your students turned-off,
touched, bemused, confused??

Jan

>I showed BT to my summer film class and I also gave them copies of the
>slang translation list to help them along.
>

*****************************************************

From: "Alex
Subject: btlist: Poster at the Gloucester
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:28:52 PDT

Hi friends out there!

I'm back to Italy!

I've been travelling around UK the last two weeks: Wales and Cornwall...
fantastic (have any of you ever been in St.Ives ? It's great!!!)

I spent the last 3 days in London (so many boys around there !!!!)
and, of course, had a drink at the Gloucester in Greenwich and ...
**** SAW OUR POSTER ON THE WALL!!!
Yes, the one with all our signs on it!!!!
But suddenly I missed you all....

Love you all ...

Alex :-) XXX

P.S. By the way, you know that we Italians are always complaining about
everything even if we live in a wonderful country and one among the
richest in the world ... but as regards the age of consent ... well, we
do not have one ... simply becouse there is no difference in our law
between eterosexuals and homosexuals... And as far as I know is one of
the few countries in the world ... At least for this we (gays) are not
complaining ... Remember the albun "The Age of Consent" by Bronsky Beat
? On the cover there was the age of consent for each country in the
world and for Italy there was "No legal restriction"...

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:17:27 -0700
From: tom
Subject: btlist: real men

ep wrote:
>
> >and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert me to
> >being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
> >Speak soon,
> >Jamey
>
> I think someone needs to tell your dad that gay men *are* real men!!
>
> -Eric
>
Real Men Wear Dresses! I am not particularly surprised at the common
misconception and stereotype people have. My brother has not had a
single conversation with me in two years unless there was someone else
in the room. My sisters both dislike that I am not the little boy they
once had power over and my parents blame themselves.

The truth is: I am just F*CKING lucky. I am proud of who I am and I
can just tell my ignorant school chums to piss off. It doesn't matter
who you love. I am a prissy sissy panzy limpwristed Femme and
goddammit, I love me!

I can stand up to anyone who tells me different and I will happily throw
nail polish remover in their eyes if they try to hurt me.

I am a big guy and I love all humanity. I am Sharisse, Queen of the
Hoosier State!

love to all

Tom

*****************************************************

From: "Tim
Subject: btlist: The parents :-)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:44:19 -0400

Hey guys...me again :-)

I know in the movie version of BT not too much was said about Jamie's dad
and I dont think anything was said at all about Ste's mother. I was just
wondering (since I havent seen the play) if the stage version mentioned what
happened to the parents.

Thank alot,
-Tim

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:36:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: CARMEN
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?

On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Gary wrote:

> Donald wrote:
> >
> > If they lost the Empire, why did Canada stick with the Mother country? Yet
> > we're as much like the yanks as they (you) are like themselves. But, y'all
> > talks like a confederate. (VVBG).
> >
> The Canadians probably wanted to revolt, but maybe it was too cold and
> snowy to do so. <G>

Who? Us?????? About the only country *we* want to revolt from is the US!
I mean... you know what they say...
There's absolutely *no* difference between Canadians and Americans....

.....and the fastest was to identify a Canadian is to say exactly
that! *grin*

Tory (one o' them Qweebeker types...La Belle Province! :-)) )

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie
Subject: Re: btlist: Poster at the Gloucester
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:09:07 PDT

Hi there Alex!
I am new to this list and hi! Obviously you are an age old member so to
speak! Anyway St Ives great! He he he! You are mad! Anyway what is 'our
poster on the wall'... got me intrigued!
Speak soon,
Jamie

>
>Hi friends out there!
>
>I'm back to Italy!
>
>I've been travelling around UK the last two weeks: Wales and
Cornwall...
>fantastic (have any of you ever been in St.Ives ? It's great!!!)
>
>I spent the last 3 days in London (so many boys around there !!!!)
>and, of course, had a drink at the Gloucester in Greenwich and ...
> **** SAW OUR POSTER ON THE WALL!!!
>Yes, the one with all our signs on it!!!!
>But suddenly I missed you all....
>
>Love you all ...
>
>Alex :-) XXX
>
>P.S. By the way, you know that we Italians are always complaining about
>everything even if we live in a wonderful country and one among the
>richest in the world ... but as regards the age of consent ... well, we
>do not have one ... simply becouse there is no difference in our law
>between eterosexuals and homosexuals... And as far as I know is one of
>the few countries in the world ... At least for this we (gays) are not
>complaining ... Remember the albun "The Age of Consent" by Bronsky Beat
>? On the cover there was the age of consent for each country in the
>world and for Italy there was "No legal restriction"...
>

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:11:02 PDT

Don't worry i have done! :-)! He isn't convinced!! Anyway i think we are
better than 'real men' personally! far better! :-). Afterall i wouldn't
like to be what he classes as a 'Real man'!!

>
>>and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert me to
>>being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
>>Speak soon,
>>Jamey
>
>I think someone needs to tell your dad that gay men *are* real men!!
>
>-Eric

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie
Subject: Re: btlist: When Did The Party Happen?
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:16:08 PDT

>
>Jamie G wrote:
>
>> I don't think so. Maybe American english has filtered into England
more
>> than English english had filtered into America! If you understand
what i
>> mean! Mind you i am not a great fan of American films at all so what
>> would i know! I understand that Americans had difficulty
understanding
>> 'Trainspotting' too so it isn't just BT.
>
>I've seen "Trainspotting," and I wouldn't be surprised if some British
>folks might not have trouble understanding it. :) (Although I don't
>really need to _understand_ Ewan MacGregor - just seeing him is enough.
><G>)
>
>I showed BT to my summer film class and I also gave them copies of the
>slang translation list to help them along.
>--

Trainspotting is easy to understand! :-)!

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie
Subject: btlist: Edinborough Beautiful Thing!
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:29:47 PDT

Hi there!
Well i have visited the website page on it and it looks great! Why have
you got a Jamie playing a Ste by the way!? Oh and are either of those
two gay? :-)! How much are tickets to see it at birmingham, because that
is a bit nearer for me to come!
Thanks,
Jamie

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:37:40 -0400
From: Eric
Subject: btlist: BT on Video

Hiya,

I just found BT on video for only $14.95!!

www.reel.com

I also heard that BT will be released in Canada at the end of this month
for CAN$19.95.

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:37:48 -0400
From: MGB
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Not to get too defensive here, but some of us believe that you can be a
christian and a homosexual. Check out the gay best selling list (at least in
Outwrite in Atlanta!) and youll find What the Bible Really Says About
Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak, PhD. Some of us dont think it is all
'shite'.

Chichi gets off his soapbox now!

MGB

tom wrote:

> Hey y'all
>
> Especially to Jamey:
>
> I went to a Private Christian School in Indiana for all my life and went
> to a Christian college for a year. It's tough dealing with all the
> shite
> that a lot of people at school put you through.
>
> I still have run-ins with my family but it gets better once you have
> other gay friends.
>
> Tom
>

*****************************************************

From: Sven
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:54:53 EDT
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

In a message dated 7/8/98 6:40:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mgb writes:

<< but some of us believe that you can be a
christian and a homosexual. >>
Tell it like it is ChiChi! I'm Roman Catholic and I'm gay! If people have a
problem with it, tough shite. They don't have to associate with me if they
don't want to, or I with them. Just because I'm a member of "their" church
doesn't make us joined in any necessarily social way.

<<my mum is all right about
it so i guess that is something. I live with my mum you see.>>
You're lucky Jamey. I'm the youngest of six kids. I have a brother who is
bisexual, and a sister who's a lesbian, and I of course am gay. The subject
of homosexuality is unmentioned at family get togethers because it's just too
touchy for all the homophobes in my clan. I especially hear it from my mom
all the time, cause I live with her. She's constantly complaining about my
brother who's married yet still has sex with men while is wife sleeps with
other women, and my sister who just got married to her girlfriend. I've told
her repeatedly about myself, but she denies it and says that I'll grow out of
it when I find the right woman(I'm 23 now, mom. I think I know what I want by
now). What to do, what to do?
Love all,
Steve

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 19:00:11 -0700
From: tom
Subject: btlist: revolt

Hi there carmen.

I am from Indiana and many arrogant Americans do think of Canada not as
a nation, but like a really big fifty-first state. I disagree. Canada
has its own culture and well, government and it is probably more
sensible than the US system.

Do you like the Barenaked Ladies?

Tom

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 22:04:19 -0400
From: Eric
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

At 09:54 PM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
I've told
>her repeatedly about myself, but she denies it and says that I'll grow out of
>it when I find the right woman(I'm 23 now, mom. I think I know what I
want by
>now). What to do, what to do?

Steve, tell her *You're* the right woman, looking for a great guy!! Or...
offer to do her hair.

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:48:00 -0700
From: Jean
Subject: btlist: set your mind at ease

Tom and Sharisse, I don't get a sense that offense was taken. I understood
what you were and are saying and hope that this wonderful group of people
you've joined up with on this list can help take some of the sting out of
the unfortunate experiences you (and we!) have had at the hands of those we
love and trust. I hope you find the church you're seeking. Until then, you
seem to have one inside you that will get you through.

unoffended Jean!

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:33:16 -0700
From: tom
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

To apologize and clarify myself, I do not think that Christianity is
shite in any way.

I was simply stating that my experiences with the way people interpret
Christianity around here is way mixed up. I am a Christian and I am
gay.
I love God and know that he is my salvation. I also know that God wants
me to be true to myself and not lie. That is why I came out.

I Samuel 12:24 tells us that God has a plan for each of our lives and
that his plan will not harm us. I believe that I am not a mistake. I
am a man created by God in His image to serve and follow Him on Earth.
He knows who I will love and they are Men.

I hope this explains my POV a bit better.

Love to all

Tom

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:42:25 -0700
From: tomboyer <tb1215@fortwayne.infi.net>
Organization: InfiNet
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Again Sharisse is sorry for offending other brothers/sisters on the
list.

I am a Christian. I was baptized when I was nine and save for a short
phase of Atheism in High School, I have always been a Christian. I am a
non-churchgoing Evangelical Mennonite. No I don't drive a Buggy.

I am free to be me in the salvation of Christ and he's my friend.

My entire family is straight. I am the first one to come out, anyway.
It used to seem that I was the only gay person in the world. I met
several gays and lesbians since and I am happier. It is sad that so
many Homosexuals are forced out of their families and churches. I no
longer attend church for the sake of saving my sanity. I am looking for
a church, but I just don't like Church People.

Any Ideas?

love all

Sharisse

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:52:21 -0700
From: tom
Subject: btlist: Gay Christianity

My friend has a great webpage about gays and Christianity

I will find the link.

If anyone wants it, please email me separately

Tom

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:07:16 -0700
From: tom
Subject: Re: btlist: set your mind at ease

My mind is at ease, but I am a peacemaker and I always have to get
things settled. I wasn't like physically abused or anything, but the
words from big mouths of small minds cut like a knife.

Tom is getting better and growing stronger.

Sharisse has a mind of her own ::-)

*SMOOCHES*

Tom

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:00:56 +1000
From: William
Subject: Re: btlist: BT on Video

Wish I could find it - it seems unavailable in this country.

William

Eric wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> I just found BT on video for only $14.95!!
>
> www.reel.com
>
> I also heard that BT will be released in Canada at the end of this month
> for CAN$19.95.
>
> -Eric
>

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:05:37 +1000
From: William
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Hi Jamey & all you wonderful people out there.

School can be a bitch. I was lucky because I had one gay school friend who went
through it all with me. We were no Ste and Jamie but we had our moments.

As to my family: My mother confronted me about it too. I was 21 and I had got
involved with the gay group at University. I usually wore gay badges and forgot
to take one off before throwing a shirt in the washing. My mother found it and
we had the "It's probably all my fault" scene with both of us (but mainly me)
ending up in tears. Unlike your mum she didn't tell my father. I told him
myself a few years later (in retrospect I have no idea why I waited) and he was
okay about it. Not happy, but accepting.

My mother's way of coping with it was to ignore the whole matter. It was never
discussed. If it came up the subject was changed. Jian and I had been together
for eight years before they met him and then it was over my body in intensive
care after a car accident. I nearly had to die before they accepted that he even
existed.

Now they do accept him and I am getting on with them better than ever before.

My brother on the other hand has always been on side and is now planning to
arrange a family gathering for our tenth anniversary next year.

Which is all a way of saying stick in there - things can get better. If your
family can't accept you then remember there are a lot of people in the world who
will and who will love you.

William

Jamie G wrote:

> Hi there Tom!
> thanks, school is so bad but it is great when you realise that it isn't
> just you who has to go through it all. They don't know, they just take
> the piss! Ok i don't go out with girls so maybe i am giving the game
> away just a little! I am so glad i have got the internet, if i couldn't
> talk it through with you lot i would go mad! my mum is all right about
> it so i guess that is something. I live with my mum you see. Actually
> she confronted me with it just like Sandra confronted 'Jamie' in the
> film! I see my dad sometimes and my mum told him. He refuses to believe
> it, goes mad at the suggestion that his son may be a 'fucking pufter',
> and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert me to
> being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
> Speak soon,
> Jamey

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 06:39:50 -0400
From: Eric
Subject: Re: btlist: BT on Video

At 06:00 PM 7/9/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Wish I could find it - it seems unavailable in this country.
>
>William

I asume you're in Australia. BT defintely *was* available there... I don't
know about now. I think you should try a Sydney video store. OR, you can
easily order it from the UK... you use the PAL system there, right?

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:49:42 +1000
From: William
Subject: Re: btlist: BT on Video

I have tried every video store I can find and they've all had it - but it's no
longer available. I think it sold out when the play was on here in Mardi Gras
this year.

Ah well they always said patience is a virtue. Anyway I do have a copy but it's
a third-hand version with a somewhat erratic soundtrack. I can put up with it a
bit longer.

Thanks for the suggestion of a UK source (and yes we do use PAL) and yes I am in
Australia.

William

Eric wrote:

> At 06:00 PM 7/9/98 +1000, you wrote:
> >Wish I could find it - it seems unavailable in this country.
> >
> >William
>
> I asume you're in Australia. BT defintely *was* available there... I don't
> know about now. I think you should try a Sydney video store. OR, you can
> easily order it from the UK... you use the PAL system there, right?
>
> -Eric
>

*****************************************************

From: "Neil
Subject: RE: btlist: BT on Video
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:51:44 +0100

William,

If ordering from the UK, have a look at:

http://www.hmv.co.uk
http://www.musicshop.co.uk
http://www.videoshop.co.uk

Alternatively, I could buy it and post it on to you.

Neil.

-----Original Message-----
Eric
Sent: 9 July 1998 11:40
Subject: Re: btlist: BT on Video

At 06:00 PM 7/9/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Wish I could find it - it seems unavailable in this country.
>
>William

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:15:00 +1000
From: William
Subject: Re: btlist: BT on Video

Neil

Thanks for the offer.

I'll try the pages you mention and see what I can find. If I can't get anywhere
I'll get back to you.

Thanks

William

Neil wrote:

> William,
>
> If ordering from the UK, have a look at:
>
> http://www.hmv.co.uk
> http://www.musicshop.co.uk
> http://www.videoshop.co.uk
>
> Alternatively, I could buy it and post it on to you.
>
> Neil.
>

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 05:57:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rich
Subject: Re: btlist: Poster at the Gloucester

Wow Alex -- it's great to hear our poster is up at the Gloucester. I
must tell you I'm jealous that you've been there again! It was great
to meet you even though you and I didn't get to talk very much. I'm
looking forward to seeing you at the Gloucester again next year.

Rich

(For those of you new to the list, the BT Nederland fanclub organized
a gathering of BT fans on June 13th, the second anniversary of the
movie's release in the UK. People from 7 or 8 countries were there
[depending on how you count Gavin K]. We met at the Gloucester, which
is in Greenwich; visited the Cutty Sark pub that was The Anchor in
BT; took the 180 bus to Thamesmead; and saw most of the places where
BT was filmed. We then returned on the 180 to the Gloucester where we
all signed a poster and presented it to the pub. They treated us to a
buffet dinner and screened BT on their big screen TV. Then a cabaret
act, Katrina and the Boy, performed songs from BT. As the evening
drew to a close we had a surprise -- Linda Henry, Jamie's mum Sandra
in BT, dropped in and signed autographs for a couple of hours.)

---Alex wrote:
>
> Hi friends out there!
>
> I'm back to Italy!
>
> I've been travelling around UK the last two weeks: Wales and
Cornwall...
> fantastic (have any of you ever been in St.Ives ? It's great!!!)
>
> I spent the last 3 days in London (so many boys around there !!!!)
> and, of course, had a drink at the Gloucester in Greenwich and ...
> **** SAW OUR POSTER ON THE WALL!!!
> Yes, the one with all our signs on it!!!!
> But suddenly I missed you all....
>
> Love you all ...
>
> Alex :-) XXX
>
> P.S. By the way, you know that we Italians are always complaining
about
> everything even if we live in a wonderful country and one among the
> richest in the world ... but as regards the age of consent ... well,
we
> do not have one ... simply becouse there is no difference in our law
> between eterosexuals and homosexuals... And as far as I know is one
of
> the few countries in the world ... At least for this we (gays) are
not
> complaining ... Remember the albun "The Age of Consent" by Bronsky
Beat
> ? On the cover there was the age of consent for each country in the
> world and for Italy there was "No legal restriction"...
>

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:17:38 +0100 (BST)
From: Stu
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Hi Jamey

OK, so you're dad's trying to turn you into a real man. Can he therefore
define the definition of a real man. One definition running through my
head is that it must be someone, who's hard as nails, and hangs around
drinking in the pub, during the evening, and getting into fights.

Ok, maybe not, but it was good anyway.

I think society need's to open up to the real world, and experience real
people, and then they will understand real men. As I live with my step
dad, and mom, and family, they all know about me being homosexual, and
accept it, whereas if it were in a family like ste's from the BT film,
convincing them wouldn't be so easy.

stu.

On Wed, 8 Jul 1998 ep wrote:

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:19:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Stu
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Hi there,

just a comment, one way of identifying is someone is homosexual or not,
is to look into their eyes, I know.

On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Donald wrote:

> A lot of people in the "straight" community believe that you can spot a
> gay male by the way he walks or presents himself. We're portrayed as limp
> wristed and walk like girls.ItIt's a damn shame people can't admit that we
> look like everybody else in society. Many of us that served in the armed
> forces know that we can and do look like the other guys, even in the
> showers. And we can bleed and die for our country just like the 'real men'
> Don
>
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Jul 1998 ep wrote:
>
> >
> > >and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert me to
> > >being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
> > >Speak soon,
> > >Jamey
> >
> > I think someone needs to tell your dad that gay men *are* real men!!
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> >

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:37:02 -0500
From: Gary
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

tom wrote:
>
> To apologize and clarify myself, I do not think that Christianity is
> shite in any way.
>
> I was simply stating that my experiences with the way people interpret
> Christianity around here is way mixed up. I am a Christian and I am
> gay.
> I love God and know that he is my salvation. I also know that God wants
> me to be true to myself and not lie. That is why I came out.
>
> I Samuel 12:24 tells us that God has a plan for each of our lives and
> that his plan will not harm us. I believe that I am not a mistake. I
> am a man created by God in His image to serve and follow Him on Earth.
> He knows who I will love and they are Men.
>
> I hope this explains my POV a bit better.
>
"I am not a mistake." That about says it all. Unfortunately, there are
those who would make us believe we are some aberration in the world.

That's another "beautiful thing" about Beautiful Thing: it shows love as
natural and necessary. It's so affirming.

Gary
--

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:20:42 +0100 (BST)
From: Stu
Subject: btlist: re-sent mail, to btlist, as I couldn't access ,

Hi there, As i couldn't send an email to the above address, this message
is intended for Tom Boyer.

Ok so, I may be asking for too much, but I'm a christian too, and wouldn't
mind seeing the article on homosexuals and religion. I get enough said
about the issue from church, and the only people who know about me being
homosexual, are my family, friends, and you lot, but not the church, they
can't/won't accept it.

THanks for your help

stu.
x

*****************************************************

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