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From: mermatt
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:27:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: btlist: Accents in the Film

Thanks for your comments, Neil. I realize that Mr. Harvey approved of
the original stage play and the movie. He also was present at the
previews and opening of the Chicago production and thoroughly enjoyed
it.

My point is that the stage version I saw -- which uses what is called
"stage cockney" -- was much easier to understand and the comic lines
worked much better. I realize that the people in the film are speaking
authentic dialect. That is why some people have said they can understand
the film better when they watch it with closed captioning.

In any even, the Chicago production is a delight. Anyone who has a
chance should see it. Hopefully because it has received such a positive
reaction from the press and the audience, it will be extended again --
and perhaps other US productions will follow. MATT

*****************************************************

20 Jul 98 11:58:19 +0100
From: "Peter
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:58:06 +0000
Subject: btlist: Edinburgh Fringe Production of BT

Guys and gals,

A quick update from me - things are going really well, we've had lots
of press interest, promises of front covers on some mags up in
Scotland, in fact, lots of really nice feedback. Also one of my cast
(you'll have to guess which one!) is in touch with Jonathan about him
coming to see the play - they've already met once or twice in the
past!
Oh, and rehearsals are going well, it really looks great.
And my painting of the doors is going quite well too, I'm covered in
blue paint!!!!!!!!

On the ticket front, anyone who's expressed an interest, can you mail
me and remind me what dates you wanted to come, whether it be to
Birmingham or Edinburgh. I can then reserve you tickets

We also have finalised the merchandise, T-shirts (full colour front,
black print on rear - white shirt, sizes, medium and xl only!) will
be available for 10 pounds, souvenir brochures (like a programme) for
1 pound, and copies of the poster (A3) for 1.50. We may also have a
few photos of the cast, tbc.

So at last things are coming together, I'm nearly done with my
producery time things and a happy man :)

catch ya all soon
-Peter
xx

*****************************************************

From: ep
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:20:26 -0400
Subject: Re: btlist: new

>Anyway, when I saw the movie, I was in awe. I cried, laughed, etc. I tried
>to purchase it but could not find a copy anywhere so I taped it before I
>returned home. I have watched it another 2 times since. I would also love
>to own the soundtrack.

Hi Scott,

In Canada, you can order the video of Beautiful Thing here:

https://alliance.alliancevideo.com:444/bin/$webdbc.exe/alliance95/Movies/ht
x/&/alliance/no-detail.htx?X_AVRCode=2223

If you have trouble with that address, just go to http://www.alliancevideo.com

The price is $19.95CAN

Best,
Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:02:29 +0100 (BST)
From: Stu
Subject: Re: btlist: Thanks for the welcome!

Hi Jamie

Sorry the info din't quite help you.

I do wish you a lot of success for now and the future. I'm at uni, and
lovin' every minute of it, and you know, the best part lies, with the fact
that i'm going full time, in september, and have been granted permission
to proceeed onto the bsc hons degree in Information Systems Development,
and can't wait to get stuck in.

Ok must go now,

see you around.

luv

stu.
x

On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Jamie G wrote:

> hi Stu!
> Thanks for the help. I have read the back of Gay Times and checked them
> all out but there is nothing! it would bebetter if public transport
> around here was cheap and half decent!! Never mind hey, university
> soon... i hope! Well a year away at any rate!
> loads of love,
> jamie
>
>
> >Hi Jamie
> >
> >Stu here, and thanks for the comments from the previous letter.
> >
> >I'm sorry it's difficult finding a society in your area, and I wouldn't
> go
> >to the toilets up the road, either.
> >
> >I too am finding it difficult to get involved in societies, but
> hopefully
> >when I go back to uni, in september (bad news, I've to resit an exam,
> >before progressing onto an honours degree in Business iNformation
> Systems)
> >I'm hopefully gonna be a full time student, and will be able to join
> the
> >lgb societies there, AGAIN. Last year I was part time, and was unable
> to
> >make the meetings,and join in all the fun.
> >
> >If you've got the latest edition of Gay Times, then there's a list at
> the
> >back, with societies, that may be local to you. I've found a couple ,
> for
> >example, I live in BRentwood, and therefore, have soceities in Essex,
> >being, in Harlow, Chelsmford, not close, but ok to travel too.
> >
> >Check it out. there may also b some news of societies,
> >www.gaytimes.co.uk
> >
> >see you later mate.
> >
> >
> >
> >stu.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Jamie G wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Stu!
> >> My school have a LGB society! No bloody way! All the teachers are
> >> homophobic and it is a shit hole! As for local groups, well i went to
> >> one once but it was 20 minutes away by train, cost me a fortune to
> get
> >> there and wasn't really worth it. It would be great to set one up,
> but
> >> almost impossible... no where to have it, no one to come etc! The
> >> nearest thing to a gay meeting place around here is the toilets up
> the
> >> road and no way am i going there!! i wish i lived in london or
> >> something. Thanks for your help though Stu, sounds like you had an
> even
> >> worse time at school than i do.
> >> Loads of love and hopefully speak to you again soon,
> >> jamie
> >> XXX
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Hey Jamie, and hello all.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Sorry it's taken a while to respond to this email, but i've been
> busy
> >> >working.
> >> >
> >> >Jamie, some advice, if it helps or not.
> >> >
> >> >I'm sure that a person with our whit and charm, and looks will get a
> >> bf,
> >> >sooner, than later. I feel that there must be hundreds if not, half
> >> the
> >> >amount of students at school, who are gay, but haven't let the cat
> out
> >> of
> >> >the bag, so to speak. I was wondering if you'd checked out the
> clubs
> >> and
> >> >event that the school holds, and whether there was a lgb (lesbian
> gay
> >> and
> >> >Bisexual) society within your school ? or outside, locally to you.
> >> >
> >> >This would benefit both yourself, and them. As there may be others
> who
> >> >are gay, but haven't told anyone, and have joined a society such as
> the
> >> >lgb. Usually you can find out if these societies exist or not,
> through
> >> a
> >> >local paper, or from word of mouth.
> >> >
> >> >If all goes according to plan, you'll be joining a club/society in
> no
> >> >time!!
> >> >
> >> >If however there isn't one in your school/area, then why not find
> some
> >> >people who are also gay, and forming your own society, and get
> approval
> >> >from an organisation like stonewall.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I remember my days at school. Unfortunately I wasn't aware of
> society
> >> in
> >> >full. When I was 16 I was kept inside, because of my mental age,
> being
> >> 12
> >> >at that time, and it affected my studies and my social life. I
> wasn't
> >> >good at sports, I was small for my age, and I had problems learning
> to
> >> >read and write and do simple arithmetic. I didn't even know about
> >> being
> >> >gay, and was being called it, at school, and i didn't understand.
> One
> >> >thing which hit me by surprise was that the way i spoke, which was
> well
> >> >spoken english, and also the pitch of my voice, which was high at
> that
> >> >time, made them believe I was gay, and I wasn't, at that time.
> Unreal
> >> >isn't it, but it's true, I tell you.
> >> >
> >> >Today I understand fully what it's all about, and wish I could have
> >> turned
> >> >back the clocks, and been a bit more mature, but it's not possible.
> >> >
> >> >To you, I wish you every success, and anyone else.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >with reguards.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >stu.
> >> > x
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Jamie G wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi there William,
> >> >> Thanks for your support. Maybe things will work out in the end.
> Once
> >> i
> >> >> get a Boyfriend i will be happy. the rest can just get lost then.
> I
> >> >> really wish i had a gay friend at school, that would be so great,
> but
> >> it
> >> >> just isn't going to happen i don't think. :-(! I can keep on
> hoping
> >> >> though i guess!
> >> >> Thanks again,
> >> >> Jamie
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Hi Jamey & all you wonderful people out there.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >School can be a bitch. I was lucky because I had one gay school
> >> friend
> >> >> who went
> >> >> >through it all with me. We were no Ste and Jamie but we had our
> >> >> moments.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As to my family: My mother confronted me about it too. I was 21
> and
> >> I
> >> >> had got
> >> >> >involved with the gay group at University. I usually wore gay
> >> badges
> >> >> and forgot
> >> >> >to take one off before throwing a shirt in the washing. My
> mother
> >> >> found it and
> >> >> >we had the "It's probably all my fault" scene with both of us
> (but
> >> >> mainly me)
> >> >> >ending up in tears. Unlike your mum she didn't tell my father.
> I
> >> told
> >> >> him
> >> >> >myself a few years later (in retrospect I have no idea why I
> waited)
> >> >> and he was
> >> >> >okay about it. Not happy, but accepting.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My mother's way of coping with it was to ignore the whole matter.
> >> It
> >> >> was never
> >> >> >discussed. If it came up the subject was changed. Jian and I
> had
> >> been
> >> >> together
> >> >> >for eight years before they met him and then it was over my body
> in
> >> >> intensive
> >> >> >care after a car accident. I nearly had to die before they
> accepted
> >> >> that he even
> >> >> >existed.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Now they do accept him and I am getting on with them better than
> >> ever
> >> >> before.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My brother on the other hand has always been on side and is now
> >> >> planning to
> >> >> >arrange a family gathering for our tenth anniversary next year.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Which is all a way of saying stick in there - things can get
> better.
> >> If
> >> >> your
> >> >> >family can't accept you then remember there are a lot of people
> in
> >> the
> >> >> world who
> >> >> >will and who will love you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >William
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Jamie G wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Hi there Tom!
> >> >> >> thanks, school is so bad but it is great when you realise that
> it
> >> >> isn't
> >> >> >> just you who has to go through it all. They don't know, they
> just
> >> >> take
> >> >> >> the piss! Ok i don't go out with girls so maybe i am giving the
> >> game
> >> >> >> away just a little! I am so glad i have got the internet, if i
> >> >> couldn't
> >> >> >> talk it through with you lot i would go mad! my mum is all
> right
> >> >> about
> >> >> >> it so i guess that is something. I live with my mum you see.
> >> Actually
> >> >> >> she confronted me with it just like Sandra confronted 'Jamie'
> in
> >> the
> >> >> >> film! I see my dad sometimes and my mum told him. He refuses to
> >> >> believe
> >> >> >> it, goes mad at the suggestion that his son may be a 'fucking
> >> >> pufter',
> >> >> >> and on the few occasions that he does see me, tries to convert
> me
> >> to
> >> >> >> being 'A real man'! There you go.. what are dads for!
> >> >> >> Speak soon,
> >> >> >> Jamey
> >> >> >

*****************************************************

From: DLawr
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:32:37 EDT
Subject: btlist: Re: accents in the film

Hi Matt,

I really must object to the criticism of the accents in the film. The film is
set in London, all the main characters are Londoners and the two main actors
are also from London. The accents are about as authentic as you would get. As
a Londoner myself, nothing would have rankled me more than hearing phoney
accents, a la Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins! Any film has to be anchored (no
pun intended) to somewhere, and this one happens to be London, just as
'Trainspotting' was in Edinburgh. I love the films of Woody Allen, but
sometimes the New York accent and speed of talking mean I lose some of the
humour, but I appreciate them all the more for that.

As for describing some of the delivery as 'dour' - well! The film is a mixture
of dark and light - while it sets out to entertain, it doesn't try to pretend
that everything in the garden is lovely, either. There is a dark side to life
on a council estate, there is a dark side to coming to terms with your
sexuality. I think the film gets the balance perfect. While you feel you have
experienced a slice of reality, you are also immensely entertained and,
ultimately, cheered and inspired.

I'm coming to see the play in Chicago next week, and I must admit the accent
is the one thing that worries me about it. I don't want to be put off by it.
Apart from that, I'm really looking forward to it, since I've never seen the
play on the stage. I'll think about your criticisms and let you know what I
think when I get back. It wouldn't be very interesting if we all agreed on
everything, would it?!

Take care,

David

*****************************************************

From: mermatt
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:41:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: btlist: Re: accents in the film

My comment about the accents isn't intended as a criticism. It was just
my obervation.

Yes, please tell us your thoughts on the play after you see it.

And, by all means, let the people at the play know you are there. They
would appreciate talking to the people from all over the place that are
going to see the play.

Thanks for your comment. MATT

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:08:02 -0500
From: Jan
Subject: Re: btlist: Re: accents in the film

BT'ers:

Funny this thread should come up. I was talking about this very issue with
Brian (from England, now studying at University of Wisconsin - Madison).
TJ and I were lucky enough to catch up with Brian in Chicago before he
headed back to Madison. He had seen the play the night before, and I have
implored him (nicely) to post a review, as he had some very interesting
things to say about the play.

Brian (sorry for paraphrasing) felt that the actors did a decent job with
authenticating the proper accent (some did a better job than others), but
did feel a bit put off by their accents coming in and out, switching from
Australian sounding to Scottish sounding to...you get the gist, you Dr.
Henry Higgins' out there. OK, here's the American prospective - I, of
course, cannot tell a Welsh accent from a Londoner accent, so this did not
bother my American ears. In fact, their 'toning down' of the accents
probably enabled me to get more out of what they were saying (that, and the
fact that I have seen BT now about a zillion times). I can see why David
would worry about accents though - I wouldn't want actors adopting a
Southern American accent when staging a play set in the Bronx.

I think some of the other comments Matt was making though, had nothing to
do with accents and more to do with dialogue and situations that were
included in the play, but not in the movie. I personally like things about
each BT endeavor, but did feel like the play more coherently developed Ste
and Jamie's budding relationship - it just seemed like they had more of a
'liking' for each other, before they got down to the heavy revelation stuff.

Sorry to go on. Its really cool (yikes, that's so Tony) to get all these
perspectives. David, if you can forgive the actors a bit for their
accents, I think you will really enjoy the play.

JAN

*****************************************************

From: mermatt
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:55:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: btlist: Re: accents in the film

Good point, Jan. Indeed it would be unintentionally funny if I heard
non-American actors doing a southern accent for the Bronx or the other
way round.

And, yes, the play does seem to focus better on the development of the
relationship. I think the film, having the freedom to move around from
one place to another, actually loses that intensity. Since the play is
confined to one main set and the bed representing the bedroom, we get a
much more focused and intense feeling of the boys interacting with each
other.

Yes, it's cool or kewl or whatever to be able to share these
observations with others who like the story. It is a really touching
story and that's why it seems to affect so many people. MATT

*****************************************************

From: Gayamigo
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:54:59 EDT
Subject: btlist: Unsubscribe?!?

You guys are great and BT is great, but the never ending stream of e-mail in
my mail box is driving me nuts, so can someone please tell me how to
unsubscribe? Awhile back someone gave instructions but they don't work for AOL
subscribers (AOL mail requires that something be placed in the subject line).
Those same instructions also gave an address to write to, but that didn't work
for me either. Can someone PLEASE help with this? Thanks!

PS: And I'm not abandoning BT... I'll still be checking the web sites and news
groups occassionally.

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:22:01 -0200
From: wabana
Subject: Re: btlist: new

Wow Eric!!! Thanks ever so much!!!!!! R u a Canadian fan also?

Take Care,
Scott

>Hi Scott,
>
>In Canada, you can order the video of Beautiful Thing here:
>
>
>https://alliance.alliancevideo.com:444/bin/$webdbc.exe/alliance95/Movies/ht
>x/&/alliance/no-detail.htx?X_AVRCode=2223
>
>If you have trouble with that address, just go to
http://www.alliancevideo.com
>
>The price is $19.95CAN
>
>Best,
>Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:29:26 -0200
From: wabana
Subject: Re: btlist: Re: accents in the film

While I did struggle somewhat with the accents (and only at times) on the
first viewing, they just seemed to fit with the location, etc. at least to
my awareness. They made it seem more authentic and real. Newfoundland, the
province in Canada in which I live, there is a varied array of accents from
West to East. Many have carried over from old English (Ie. me is used in
some places instead of my, shag is a common term, etc.) Therefore, I
probable struggled with the accents less, even though I don't speak even
remotely close...hehe. Interesting enough, in community I lived in as a
kid, hadder or hatter (?) was often used as a negative term towards gay
people. If I am not mistaken, the term is used at least once in the movie.
Anyone know the origins?

Btw, I also had help with my first time seeing the movie. I have a friend
who is obsessed with Coranation St. and helped translate...:)

Take Care,
Scott

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:55:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Donald
Subject: Re: btlist: Gay Christianity

As an Anglican, I am proud of what the church has done and is doing toward
accepting homosexuality on an equal basis with everyone else. To think
they'll discuss same sex marriages. It likely won't be accepted this time
but hopefully some of the diocese will on their own.
GAY IS GOOD.
Don

On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Brian wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Just a quite note. I thought a couple of acticles on the BBC News website
> might interest some. There is a big international conference of Anglican
> bishops in Canterbury and one of the issues is homosexuality. The following
> acticles may be worth a read.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_135000/135188.stm
> Extracts:
> <<Canon Elizabeth Kaeton, from Newark, New Jersey,
> USA, has become the first (openly Ed.) lesbian priest to
> celebrate
> the Eucharist in the UK, at a service in central London.>>
>
> <<Christina Sumners, a curate at Holy Trinity and St
> Mary's in Guildford, edited the book, Lesbian and Gay
> Christians Called to Full Humanity: Letters to the
> Lambeth Bishops.
>
> She said: "The bishops should recognise that lesbians
> and gays are full members of the Church, not the
> second-class citizens that they are treated as now." >>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_135000/135344.stm
> Extract:
> <<Anglican brethren meet among divisions>>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_134000/134465.stm
> Extract:
> <<The Lambeth Conference happens once every 10
> years. At the last Lambeth Conference women
> priests was the main talking point, this time it is
> likely to be attitudes to homosexuality.
>
> The church in the United States has gone further in
> accepting gays and in particular gay priests than
> anywhere else in the world. The BBC's religious
> affairs correspondent Emily Buchanan has been to
> the diocese of Newark near New York. >>
>
> Brian.

*****************************************************

From: "Neil
Subject: btlist: Re: accents in the film
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:38:11 +0100

Hi David,

Thanks for the input on this subject. I don't know if you saw my mail to
the list but I was basically saying the same as you. The same thought
crossed my mind that the American cockney (rather than "stage cockney"!)
would make me apprehensive about the Chicago production.

I too may be visiting Chicago (on business - I work for The First National
Bank of Chicago in London) and will hopefully see the play. We'll have to
compare notes. I hope to see the Edinburgh production too.

Have a nice trip

Regards

Neil
x

-----Original Message-----
DLawr
Sent: 20 July 1998 18:33
Subject: btlist: Re: accents in the film

Hi Matt,

I really must object to the criticism of the accents in the film. The film
is
set in London, all the main characters are Londoners and the two main actors
are also from London. The accents are about as authentic as you would get.
As
a Londoner myself, nothing would have rankled me more than hearing phoney
accents, a la Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins! Any film has to be anchored (no
pun intended) to somewhere, and this one happens to be London, just as
'Trainspotting' was in Edinburgh. I love the films of Woody Allen, but
sometimes the New York accent and speed of talking mean I lose some of the
humour, but I appreciate them all the more for that.

As for describing some of the delivery as 'dour' - well! The film is a
mixture
of dark and light - while it sets out to entertain, it doesn't try to
pretend
that everything in the garden is lovely, either. There is a dark side to
life
on a council estate, there is a dark side to coming to terms with your
sexuality. I think the film gets the balance perfect. While you feel you
have
experienced a slice of reality, you are also immensely entertained and,
ultimately, cheered and inspired.

I'm coming to see the play in Chicago next week, and I must admit the accent
is the one thing that worries me about it. I don't want to be put off by it.
Apart from that, I'm really looking forward to it, since I've never seen the
play on the stage. I'll think about your criticisms and let you know what I
think when I get back. It wouldn't be very interesting if we all agreed on
everything, would it?!

Take care,

David

*****************************************************

From: JP
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:46:55 EDT
Subject: btlist: Re: accents in the film

You all should have heard the Chicago group's attempts at Eastender's accents
before Jonathan got ahold of them!

I attended the first preview of BT here, and the accents were a "problem".
Jonathan arrived a day before the premier, and told me (at the premier
reception) that at first he could hardly stand to listen to their "accents"
... so, he worked all day with them on the accents and pacing. The results
were a tremendous improvement at the premier...

Since then I've seen the play 3 times, and each performance has been an
improvement over the last. These guys are really working hard at it! And, in
fact, they succeed tremendously. And some the characters, particularly Matt
Stenson's Jamie (imo), are much more sensitively developed, and closer to what
Jonathan had in mind for the character.

I have since watched the film a few times as well, and in fact many of the
lines in the film are "muffed" by purest standards. This doesn't have
anything to do with accents, it has to do with performances. Like it or not,
Glen, Jamie, Linda et al did not deliver the absolute "perfect" rendition of
Beautiful Thing. It is one rendition, and a cherished one... don't get me
wrong. And they certainly have more authentic Eastender's accents (which I
love).

BUT, the real difference here is the difference between a good stage
production and a movie. Stage has to rely on the spoken word, so each word
becomes very important. Speech is artificially emphasized and articulated so
that the audience can hear and understand. There are, in effect, no
"authentic" stage accents - it's all a little artificial because of the nature
of the theatre, no matter what region you're supposed to be from.

Movies rely more on visuals, and too much "talk" gets in the way. Movie
audiences expect "realism", and a close-up of a face, or a mouth, or an eye,
can impart things that speech can never do. So, you can "throw -away" whole
lines, if the visual effect of a scene works. This is a decision a director
has to make when putting the film together.

We all agree that Hettie did a FANTASTIC job with the film. Those of us who
have seen the play just want to encourage the rest of you to go see it if you
possibly can, for a true 3-D perspecive on Beautiful Thing!

Jay

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:46:33 -0700
From: MHH
Subject: btlist: BT Play

Hello All,
Does anyone know if the play in Chicago will be moving on to any other
cities in the US?

Marc

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:05:07 -0700
From: MHH
Subject: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale

How typical is a relationship like Jaime and Ste's in the movie or is it
just an 'urban fairy tale'. There is so much interest in the film, and it
seems to be a very positive role model for a lot of gays, but still there
are so many single guys out there. If everyone is out to find a
relationship, why are there still so many lonely people out there?

Marc

*****************************************************

From: Sven
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:10:22 EDT
Subject: btlist: Great things about being Gay

Steve

P.S. I know we've discussed this so many times, but could anyone tell me how
to get onto the Beautiful-thing irc channel? I've been searching for hours.

*****************************************************

From: mermatt
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: btlist: BT Play

Hi, Marc. As far as I know, the Chicago company will not tour. They are
part of Famous Door Productions which is a Chicago group. But it is a
nice idea -- I think they would be well received all over the country.

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:20:00 +1000
From: Andy
Subject: Re: btlist: Unsubscribe?!?

A shame the btlist traffic gets too much for some. Instructions on how to
unsubscribe are emailed to everyone when they join the list. I'll presume
you've lost that information, so here we go...
__________________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the btfanlist mailing list!

Please save this message for future reference. Thank you.

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
you can send mail to  with the following
command in the body of your email message:

unsubscribe btfanlist

or from another account, besides your subscribed email address:

unsubscribe btfanlist <your email address here>

If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
(if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
list itself) send email to > .
This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
to contact a human.

>You guys are great and BT is great, but the never ending stream of e-mail in
>my mail box is driving me nuts, so can someone please tell me how to
>unsubscribe? Awhile back someone gave instructions but they don't work for AOL
>subscribers (AOL mail requires that something be placed in the subject line).
>Those same instructions also gave an address to write to, but that didn't work
>for me either. Can someone PLEASE help with this? Thanks!
>

You can put anything you like in the subject line as it's completely
ignored. Even a simple dot/period (.)

Another problem could be any signature files generated by your emailing
software or AOL. The body of the message should only have the unsubscribe
"instruction string" and nothing else.

Hope this helps.

>PS: And I'm not abandoning BT... I'll still be checking the web sites and news
>groups occassionally.
>
We'll do our best to keep you informed through the newsgroup. :)

Cheers,
Andy.

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:23:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric
Subject: Re: btlist: BT Play / IRC

At 07:46 PM 7/20/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello All,
> Does anyone know if the play in Chicago will be moving on to any other
>cities in the US?

As Matt said, The Famous Door company is a resident Chicago company and
does not tour. However, there are other theatre groups in the US who are
considering productions. Any info I get will be posted here and to my website.

As for joining irc.... first you need the irc software. Then, you need to
connect to one of the Dalnet servers (there are quite a few to choose from)
that hosts the beautiful-thing channel. THEN, once at Dalnet you issue the
command /join #beautiful-thing.

For more info on irc software, aim your web browser at http://www.mirc.com

For info on Dalnet you can go to http://www.dal.net or http://www.dalnet.com

It's all a lot easier than it sounds (everything is easy when you know how,
right?).

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:34:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric
Subject: Re: btlist: Unsubscribe?!?

HI,

Please note that the instructions Andy gave to unsubscribe were NOT those
you need to unsubscribe from THIS list, but the btfanlist, which is a
different list. The process is the same, however. To unsubscribe from THIS
list (btlist) send an email to:

Put in any subject, or none.

In the BODY of your email write:

unsubscribe btlist

if that doesn't work, do the same thing again but insert your email address
in the body of your message like this:

unsubscribe btlist <myname@myaddress.com>

Make sure that in the above example, you insert your OWN email address
where you have been getting your BT mail into the <myname@myaddress.com>
section.

I THINK I got all the above correct.

-Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:57:38 -0200
From: wabana
Subject: Re: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale

At 08:05 PM 20/07/98 -0700, you wrote:
>How typical is a relationship like Jaime and Ste's in the movie or is it
>just an 'urban fairy tale'. There is so much interest in the film, and it
>seems to be a very positive role model for a lot of gays, but still there
>are so many single guys out there. If everyone is out to find a
>relationship, why are there still so many lonely people out there?
>
>
>Marc

Hi Marc,

I have to put my two cents in here both as a gay person and as a counsellor
that comes from a feminist perspective. However, this is only my opinion. I
do not think Bt is a fairy tale as I have seen this happen but not to me
unfortunately.

RE: lonely gay people--1. The opportunities to meet are less as society
does not accept open contact. 2. Gay bars seem to be the primary meeting
place and just like straight bars are meat markets. 3. People often feel
like they are taking a risk by making an advance on a guy they like without
certainty of his sexuality. 4. While lesbians get bashed too, bashing is
more predominant amongst males and therefore the risk is higher (notice the
amount of lesbians in long term relationships.) and 5. men, gay and
straight have been socialized to focus less on feelings and seem to be more
into self-gratification.

There are guys out there who want to be in long term relationships....ie.
me. I have gotten to a point in my life where I won't settle and I take
more time to get to know a person. I also won't let friends set me up
because they happen to have a gay friend. Someone else being gay does not
make you automatically compatible. I am not knocking people who have
different lifestyles but I am just saying that rarely do long time
relationships come out of contact based upon bars or having only sexual
orietation in common.

Boy I have a big mouth....lol....I will shut up now.

Scott hehe

*****************************************************

From: "Mark"
Subject: Re: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:17:56 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From: wabana
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale

>At 08:05 PM 20/07/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>How typical is a relationship like Jaime and Ste's in the movie or is it
>>just an 'urban fairy tale'. There is so much interest in the film, and it
>>seems to be a very positive role model for a lot of gays, but still there
>>are so many single guys out there. If everyone is out to find a
>>relationship, why are there still so many lonely people out there?
>>
>>
>>Marc
>
>Hi Marc,
>
>However, this is only my opinion. I
>do not think Bt is a fairy tale as I have seen this happen but not to me
>unfortunately.

Heyas, Marc, Scott.

I guess it depends on how you define "fairy tale". For me, whether it
happens in reality or not is moot to the definition. It has "magic"
(romance... love... true love) and "happily ever after". (God, I sound so
sappy...)

In reality, well, sometimes the prince turns back into a frog.

Mark (who just realized he has way too many e-mail addresses involved in BT
fandom)

*****************************************************

From: "Mark"
Subject: Re: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:17:56 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From: wabana
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale

>At 08:05 PM 20/07/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>How typical is a relationship like Jaime and Ste's in the movie or is it
>>just an 'urban fairy tale'. There is so much interest in the film, and it
>>seems to be a very positive role model for a lot of gays, but still there
>>are so many single guys out there. If everyone is out to find a
>>relationship, why are there still so many lonely people out there?
>>
>>
>>Marc
>
>Hi Marc,
>
>However, this is only my opinion. I
>do not think Bt is a fairy tale as I have seen this happen but not to me
>unfortunately.

Heyas, Marc, Scott.

I guess it depends on how you define "fairy tale". For me, whether it
happens in reality or not is moot to the definition. It has "magic"
(romance... love... true love) and "happily ever after". (God, I sound so
sappy...)

In reality, well, sometimes the prince turns back into a frog.

Mark (who just realized he has way too many e-mail addresses involved in BT
fandom)

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:49:20 -0500
From: Brian
Subject: btlist: Letter from America

Hey Everyone,

I think first I should introduce myself, my name's is Brian, and am from a
town just south of London. I first saw the film a month or so ago, and have
been on the list a few weeks. I have made the odd post but never really
introduced myself before. I have exchanged email with some of you, and
chatted on IRC with others (Hi Gav, Kent+Joe, TJ+Jan, Sandra, Alfons,
Michael, Marc ... thanks to all of you for your advice and kindness.)

But enough already! This year I live in Madison WI (U.S.A.) and this
weekend I went to see the BT play in Chicago. Getting there was a bit
hectic. The bus was late in, and I ended up rushing to the L
(Chicago's eLevated/subway train) to get to the theatre on time, but I made
it. In the lobby they had
all the good reviews the play had received, its quite impressive, (Chicago
Tribune, The Reader, New City ...) I ended up with a good seat in the
auditorium in the centre around half way back. The show was virtually sold
out. Doing a bit of people watching, I was interested to see who was in
attendance.
Lots of Gay couples (young and old) plus a few middle class, straight
culture vultures and the odd young straight couple (who turned out to be
friends of the actress that played Leah (Susan Bennet (Balls Mr. ...
sorry)). One interesting party were a grandfather and teenage grandson, I
guess, and I wondered what their story was.

Anyway I then turned my attention to the programme and bumpth we were given
as we came in. The
show is sponsored by the British Tourist Authority, and we were given a
glossy brouchure on Britain
(called "You Don't Know The Half Of It!") for a Gay audience. It is packed
with happy same sex couples having a gay old time at Tower Bridge, Soho,
the waterfront Manchester and Brighton. With references to how Oscar Wilde
"fled Ireland to titillate London's theatre-goers", no mention, though
that he eventually had to flee Britain after being imprisioned due to
prejudical laws ("You (really) Don't Know The Half Of It!") But I shouldn't
be cynical, its good to see they are actively actracting the Pink pound,
punt, dollar and paeseta. They even had a competition to win a rail pass,
of course I answered the questionaire and entered. Let's see "Have you
ever been to Britain?", Yes. "Will you be going to Britain in the next 6
months?", Yes. "What attracts you so Britain?", Ancestry. That was easy...

Anyways, on to the play, or first the set. The first thing that I noticed
was a blue and red, check wollen shirt hanging out to dry. Hang about, that
looks like its from C&A (British department store.) I've got a shirt just
like that. Nice touch I thought. Thamesmead looked grimmer than in the
film, although Sandra's prized hanging basket, (a gift for good service?)
brightened it up. Lights down, cue Mama Cass and "It's Getting Better"
And I'm transported to the south London...

The first thing to say is that the reviews aren't wrong, it is really well
done. The whole cast were great. I did not know the play, only the film it
was interesting to see a story
which I knew, but on the other hand didn't if, you see what I mean.
Something that crossed my mind
before the play (and discussed Jan and TJ the next day, but more on that
later) was whether it would be
strange seeing different actors playing the people I 'knew' from the film.
Oddly, though, it was not strange at all, the characters in some ways
existed independently. Jamie (Matt Stinton) in some ways reminded me of a
young 'Warren' from 'This Life' (cult daring B.B.C. twenty somethings, just
out of uni, house share soap. What was nice about the show was the gay
character Warren was the least messed up of all the characters, and many
times help sort out the other characters lives.) Maybe the fact that Matt
Stinton looks a little like 'Warren' probably helped. Jamie in the play
seemed more assertive than in the film, and actually so did Ste. For
example, during the famous PFL scene, in the film I have always thought
that initially that Jamie is making all the moves, this seemed to
be less true in the play. At one point Jamie stops, and Ste asks him to
continue. I think on the whole I
prefer the scene in the play, it has other extra nice touches. Jamie is
embarassed about liking 'The Sound of Music', making out to Ste that, of
course he would not want to watch the film when Sandra asks him. Making for
an amusing moment, when Sandra calls out asking him who played ... (shame
on me I can't remember who it was) and he immediately answers.

In general Jamie does more gauche, love struck teenager type things, in the
play. For example when Ste tells him his glasses look good, he starts
wearing them when Ste's about. In general, little things like that made me
feel I knew the characters better. One of my favourite scenes was where Ste
is trying to persuade Jamie to go for a kick about (soccer), the way Jamie
tries to control and kick the ball. (It brought back memories of my feeble
attempts at the game.) The coming out scene, was excellently done. Both
Sandra (Kirsten Sahs) and Jamie, pulled it off expertly. I think, there is
something that has some of us have worried about in the film. When Sandra
telling Jamie that someone saw them going into The Gloucester, (i.e. she
lies) and then when Jamie replies they should mind their own business, she
says 'thats what I said." It seemed very un-Sandra to fib, especially in
the emotional state she is in.
In the play it makes much more sense, since it is someone else who saw
Jamie go in, in fact she initially does not know who he was with. Also when
Jamie asks how does she know it was a gay pub, she says she knows because
she is in the business, which makes more sense too. (Incidently for you
trivia gurus, another gay pub besides the Gloucester is mentioned in the
play, I forget the name, but it was in Detford goes it exist?) Of course
after all the tension of that scene, there is Leahs comic (well I say
comic, drugs are not good, people) Mama Cass scene which lightens the mood.
I have to hand to Susan Bennet see really carried that scene. (Only thing
was strangely, when Sandra says 'Snap' to Jamie, it some how fell flat)

Last week, when I asked for some travel advice about Chicago, I got a shock
when Jeff from Famous Door replied (ta very much, the info was great.) So
if you are reading this here are my prizes for Best London Accent, and some
comments on language. Well everyone put an a jolly good show, chaps and
chapesses, but there has to be a winner. And the prize goes to Tony (Kurt
Brocker), just beating Ste (Michael Moran) by a gnats whisker. (Tony
correctly pronouced 'tomato' (T-mar-toe as apposed to T-may-toe) where as
Ste did his shifts in the 'Lee-sure' pool rather than 'Le-sh_ure' pool as
we pronouce leisure in Britain. While I'm in pedantic mode, also in
Britain, Yougurt is pronouced 'yog-gurt' and not 'you-gurt', in Britain we
study maths and not math. The fooballer's (soccer player's) nickname is
pronouced Gaz-za (short 'a') and not Garr-za (which is a strip in the
Middle East :) ) But seriously folks the whole cast did a great job with
only a little wondering (maybe too much influence from Masterpiece Theatre
(the name of the series on US TV where most British costume drama turns up)
rather than East Enders :) ) Interesting, everyones accents improved during
the high drama scenes, probably because the cast was more into their
characters at that time and thinking less about the accents. So I guess my
tip would be not to try so hard with the accents. [I'm having all this in
reverse at moment, I am helping the Japanese student with up American
conversational English and trying to remember to pronouce 'simultaneously',
'sigh-multaneously' and not 'sim-mul-taneously' and say 'controverse-see'
and not 'controv-os-see' so as not to confuse her, so I realise it is hard
to get out of the habit of a lifetime.]

There was some cultural references in the play that I thought I would point
out. Wincie Willis was a
shiny happy weather girl on TV-AM a few years ago. 'A Question of Sport'
was a celebrety quiz show on sport ("funny that."), Bill Beaumont was a
former rugby player and a team captain on the show. (Jan noticed that the
shop mentioned was changed to Woolworths, but thats ok, we have them in
England too, although it is commonly pronounced "Wool-wuffs." )

So to sum up, as Wallace might have said (with Gromit nodding in agreement)
it was a "grand day out."

Afterwards I headed back downtown and found an Irish pub called the "Celtic
Crossing." Where they have a proper draught flow system (rare in the US)
and serve anglo-irish pints
(6/5 of an US pint, a US pint is slightly under 1/2 litre, our pints are a
couple of gulps over.) Anyway I had a very satisfying pint of Boddingtons,
which seemed the thing to do. I let the pub and re-entered the US. (More
trivia, what's on draught at The Gloucester?)

On the Saturday afternoon, I was lucky enough to meet up with TJ, Jan and
couple of their friends. A good opportunity to discuss the play and other
things. I'm really glad you emailed me, it was excellent to see you.

Have a good week, everyone,

Brian.

P.S. During the interval I got a flavoured mineral water from the 'bar' in
the theatre. I got a rye smile from the lady serving. I turned and noticed
there were quite a lot of people drinking mineral water. I guess some
stereotypes I can live with...

*****************************************************

From: "Kent ."
Subject: Re: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:51:12 PDT

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Marc wrote:

>How typical is a relationship like Jaime and Ste's in the movie or is
it
>just an 'urban fairy tale'.
<snip>
>If everyone is out to find a
>relationship, why are there still so many lonely people out there?
>
>
>Marc

First, welcome, Marc, Chris, Scott and all!

*Very* telling observation, Marc-- why indeed are there (seemingly) so
few relationships that work, if that's what everyone says they are
looking for?

I think Scott has pinpointed some likely reasons, but I have to wonder
if the perceived low number of "working (as in, *successful/ongoing*)
relationships" is as little as we might think. As someone who has been
in a relationship for over ten years (and had a previous one for 12
years), I will say that once you are part of a couple, you tend to latch
on to other couples, inevitably-- couples magnetism, maybe?? Also, you
tend to have some more things in common with them than with singles--
for one thing, singles are looking to be *not* single (a lot of them,
anyway) and that dictates how and where they spend their social/free
time. (Try thinking how appealing a question it might be to some
people to hear "Wanna come over for a game of cards Friday night?" :))
It might be argued that (meat market or no), a night out at a bar may
not be how a couple wants to spend their time-- or money. And as
people get older, their interests can change, too (um, not that I'm
speaking from my *own* experience, oh no! :)) -- so maybe the reason
singles don't run into couples is in major part because they aren't
running in the same places!

We are EVERYWHERE!! (We just don't get out all that much! :))

Kent

*****************************************************

From: mermatt
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: btlist: Letter from America

Excellent write-up on the play, Brian. As you may have read, I saw the
play twice when I was in Chicago recently. It really worked more
effectively for me than the movie simply because it was live and right
there in front of me. And getting to know the cast a little was
important too.

So, Brian, you are going to school in Wisconsin and you get to my old
hometown of Chicago. We'll have to get together sometime and share our
views of the play and movie over a mineral water or whatever.

*****************************************************

From: "Joshua
Subject: RE: btlist: Urban Fairy Tale
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:01:41 -0400

Well guys... I can say that it's not necessarily a fairy tale coz I almost
had the same thing happen. My "Ste"'s name was Martin and he and I were
starting to fall in love in a very similar way, except that he and I were
great friends before-hand, though he was into sports (American footy) and I
was the reader/indoors-type. Unfortunately for myself, my "Ste" decided he
couldn't handle the pressure of a gay life and chose his friends, drugs, and
jail over me... To this day he remains in the closet, sleeps with every
girl he can, and acts like he and I never happened. I do know that we could
very well have worked out in the same way as Jamie and Ste, except that I
made a few mistakes, society helped to make those mistakes huge, and so
things just turned out wrong. If I were more like Jamie, it would have been
the same. =o) So it is possible... just depends on how lives work...

Hope no one minded my two bits...

See ya!

Joshy

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:49:19 -0700
From: MHH
Subject: btlist: Beautiful Things

Joshy,
Thank you for sharing this with us. I would like to hear about other
people's Beautiful Things, no matter how they turned out.

Thanks,
Marc

At 12:01 AM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Well guys... I can say that it's not necessarily a fairy tale coz I almost
>had the same thing happen. My "Ste"'s name was Martin and he and I were
>starting to fall in love in a very similar way, except that he and I were
>great friends before-hand, though he was into sports (American footy) and I
>was the reader/indoors-type. Unfortunately for myself, my "Ste" decided he
>couldn't handle the pressure of a gay life and chose his friends, drugs, and
>jail over me... To this day he remains in the closet, sleeps with every
>girl he can, and acts like he and I never happened. I do know that we could
>very well have worked out in the same way as Jamie and Ste, except that I
>made a few mistakes, society helped to make those mistakes huge, and so
>things just turned out wrong. If I were more like Jamie, it would have been
>the same. =o) So it is possible... just depends on how lives work...
>
>Hope no one minded my two bits...
>
>See ya!
>
>Joshy
>
>

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:54:52 +0100 (BST)
From: Stu
Subject: btlist: To all UK'ers

Hi all,

As you may have already heard, the house of lords are about to vote
against the sudden change in the age consent for homosexuals.

If you are in England, check out bbc2, now, and wait until 3pm, as there
may be a live verdict over the air, on the vote status.

stu.

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:20:40 -0500
From: Brian
Subject: Re: btlist: To all UK'ers

At 14:54 22/07/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>
>As you may have already heard, the house of lords are about to vote
>against the sudden change in the age consent for homosexuals.
>
>If you are in England, check out bbc2, now, and wait until 3pm, as there
>may be a live verdict over the air, on the vote status.
>

If you are UKer and but not in the UK (or just interested) the events are
being follow on the BBC UK Politics page:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/default.htm

At the moment they are saying that if the Lords vote against, the
government will drop the issue, because it is part of a larger bill
they want on the statute books before the end of this parliamentary
session. But will reintroduce it as a single issue bill in the autumn.

Brian.

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:21:55 +0100 (BST)
From: Stu
Subject: Re: btlist: To all UK'ers

Brian

You god, I/we all luv ya.

Couldn't find a link, what a darlin'

stu.

On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Brian wrote:

> At 14:54 22/07/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >As you may have already heard, the house of lords are about to vote
> >against the sudden change in the age consent for homosexuals.
> >
> >If you are in England, check out bbc2, now, and wait until 3pm, as there
> >may be a live verdict over the air, on the vote status.
> >
>
> If you are UKer and but not in the UK (or just interested) the events are
> being follow on the BBC UK Politics page:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/default.htm
>
> At the moment they are saying that if the Lords vote against, the
> government will drop the issue, because it is part of a larger bill
> they want on the statute books before the end of this parliamentary
> session. But will reintroduce it as a single issue bill in the autumn.
>
> Brian.
>
>

*****************************************************

From: "Neil
Subject: btlist: Vigil for the repressed :)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:54:08 +0100

There is a rally/vigil outside the Palace of Westminster today to call for
the fat un-elected ancient b*****ds to pass the bill. I'm going after work
to lend my support for the Jamie and Ste's of today and tomorrow. If
anybody from the list is going, let me know.

Love

Neil.

> -----Original Message-----
> Stu
> Sent: 22 July 1998 15:22
> Subject: Re: btlist: To all UK'ers
>
>
> Brian
>
> You god, I/we all luv ya.
>
> Couldn't find a link, what a darlin'
>
>
> stu.
>
>
> On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Brian wrote:
>
> > At 14:54 22/07/98 +0100, you wrote:
> > >
> > >Hi all,
> > >
> > >As you may have already heard, the house of lords are about to vote
> > >against the sudden change in the age consent for homosexuals.
> > >
> > >If you are in England, check out bbc2, now, and wait until
> 3pm, as there
> > >may be a live verdict over the air, on the vote status.
> > >
> >
> > If you are UKer and but not in the UK (or just interested)
> the events are
> > being follow on the BBC UK Politics page:
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/default.htm
> >
> > At the moment they are saying that if the Lords vote against, the
> > government will drop the issue, because it is part of a larger bill
> > they want on the statute books before the end of this parliamentary
> > session. But will reintroduce it as a single issue bill in
> the autumn.
> >
> > Brian.
> >

*****************************************************

This message was brought to you by the Beautiful Thing mailing list (btlist)

id QAA19908; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:13:32 +0100
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:13:31 +0100 (BST)
From: Stu <hnd97171@isc.anglia.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: btlist: Vigil for the repressed :)

HI Neil

Sorry, can't make it to to gathering, but wish you luck , and support.

see you later.

stu.

On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Neil  wrote:

> There is a rally/vigil outside the Palace of Westminster today to call for
> the fat un-elected ancient b*****ds to pass the bill. I'm going after work
> to lend my support for the Jamie and Ste's of today and tomorrow. If
> anybody from the list is going, let me know.
>
> Love
>
> Neil.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Stu
> > Sent: 22 July 1998 15:22
> > Subject: Re: btlist: To all UK'ers
> >
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > You god, I/we all luv ya.
> >
> > Couldn't find a link, what a darlin'
> >
> >
> > stu.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Brian wrote:
> >
> > > At 14:54 22/07/98 +0100, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Hi all,
> > > >
> > > >As you may have already heard, the house of lords are about to vote
> > > >against the sudden change in the age consent for homosexuals.
> > > >
> > > >If you are in England, check out bbc2, now, and wait until
> > 3pm, as there
> > > >may be a live verdict over the air, on the vote status.
> > > >
> > >
> > > If you are UKer and but not in the UK (or just interested)
> > the events are
> > > being follow on the BBC UK Politics page:
> > >
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/default.htm
> > >
> > > At the moment they are saying that if the Lords vote against, the
> > > government will drop the issue, because it is part of a larger bill
> > > they want on the statute books before the end of this parliamentary
> > > session. But will reintroduce it as a single issue bill in
> > the autumn.
> > >
> > > Brian.
> > >

*****************************************************

From: "Joshua
Subject: btlist: Silliness that I hope no one minds...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:21:55 -0400

I don't know if you all know, but I have my own domain ... it was given to
me by a friend, a very dear friend, that helped me start an online
web-hosting company... unfortunately neither he nor I have the time to get
the company off the ground so it went "non-profit". Well now I have a
domain and space and nothing happening with it. If anyone is looking for
some good space under a friend's guidance... don't hesitate to ask =o)

The URL for the parent company is www.t-w.com...
All sites would be listed under family.t-w.com and if you'd like, the only
charges that could be applied, there is the option of your own personalized
sub-domain (i.e. the your_idea_here.t-w.com) for only $5/mo and email for
$2/mo...

I have offered this to all my friends coz I would love to have a bunch of my
friends on the domain =o) It would give it purpose and make me feel good.

I was thinking about having "thamesmead.t-w.com" and having you all listed
under it (maybe in "apartments" as it were) but I don't know how well this
would take off... maybe we can consider it if enough of you wanna join in
=o)

Well for those of you that think this is obnoxious, I hope you understand
that I'm just offering free space coz I can and not trying to sell nuffin...
I'm sorry if anyone is upset. =o)

Love ya, guyz.
Joshy

*****************************************************

From: "Jamie G"
Subject: Re: btlist: Vigil for the repressed :)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:30:05 PDT

Good luck Neil! If they chuck it out i will be so depressed!!! Bastards
even thinking about it... if they were young and gay they would know
what it feels like!
Love,
Jamie


>
>There is a rally/vigil outside the Palace of Westminster today to call
for
>the fat un-elected ancient b*****ds to pass the bill. I'm going after
work
>to lend my support for the Jamie and Ste's of today and tomorrow. If
>anybody from the list is going, let me know.
>
>Love
>
>Neil.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Stu
>> Sent: 22 July 1998 15:22
>> Subject: Re: btlist: To all UK'ers
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> You god, I/we all luv ya.
>>
>> Couldn't find a link, what a darlin'
>>
>>
>> stu.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Brian wrote:
>>
>> > At 14:54 22/07/98 +0100, you wrote:
>> > >
>> > >Hi all,
>> > >
>> > >As you may have already heard, the house of lords are about to
vote
>> > >against the sudden change in the age consent for homosexuals.
>> > >
>> > >If you are in England, check out bbc2, now, and wait until
>> 3pm, as there
>> > >may be a live verdict over the air, on the vote status.
>> > >
>> >
>> > If you are UKer and but not in the UK (or just interested)
>> the events are
>> > being follow on the BBC UK Politics page:
>> >
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/default.htm
>> >
>> > At the moment they are saying that if the Lords vote against, the
>> > government will drop the issue, because it is part of a larger bill
>> > they want on the statute books before the end of this parliamentary
>> > session. But will reintroduce it as a single issue bill in
>> the autumn.
>> >
>> > Brian.
>> >

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