From: "Harry "
Date: 5/30/97 8:26PM
Subject: Cut Scenes
I was just going through my inbox and found, over the last two months, a
significant number of BT E-Mail List messages that I hadn't read, somehow.
While reading them it occured to me that some of the dialog and scenes from
the play missing in the film might have been filmed and then cut during
editing. Several rereleased films lately, especially 'Director's Cuts'
have additional scenes and dialogue reinserted. Could this be true of
Beautiful Thing? Could there have been, for instance, a bit where Glen
does rest his head in the small of Scott's back but that it was cut? Any
thought's or knowledge out there?
- Harry
**************************************************************
From: Todd
Date: 5/30/97 9:36PM
Subject: Re: Sequel
I like it! It has all the elements: tension, climax, and resolve. Very
nicely done Jay!
Todd
----------
> From: JP
> Subject: Re: Sequel
> Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 8:03 PM
>
> OK, here's my scenario:
>
> A. The situation at the end of BT:
>
>
>
> B. The next installment:
>
>
>
> Hmm, but have they broken up? Or have they become brothers, discovering
a
> love deeper than they realised was possible before?
>
>
> :o) Jay
**************************************************************
From: Bruce
Date: 5/30/97 10:21PM
Subject: Re: London Bridge.
> Oh and just a note to say that I've just come out to 3 of my friends and
>it feels great!,I can't put into words just how happy I'm feeling just
>now,but I think you all know!!
Joe, congratulations!!!!
Bruce
**************************************************************
From: Dick
Date: 5/30/97 11:37PM
Subject: Re: It's here
Jeff:
My copy of the film also arrived today, although my delvery man was not cute!! I
also got mine thru www.reel.com. Hve already watched it twice and it just gets better
each time I see it.
Cheers,
dick
**************************************************************
From: MR J J
Date: 5/31/97 12:44AM
Subject: London Bridge.
Davie,
Thanks for putting the London Bridge link up on the site.I think
it's now only showing in the Carlton region.I get Cantral here at uni,but
in 4 weeks time I'll be returning home to Essex,and I can't wait to see
Glen in it!!!
As far as the sequel issue goes,to me it sounds like fun.I won't be
giving it a go myself but I'll be very interested to see other peoples
ideas.
My geography isn't that good and the one thing that really worried me
was the distance between Thamesmead and Rotherhide,I should know,coming
from Essex - but someone tells me it's not far at all - is she right?,I
hope so!.
And wouldn't it be great if Ste was to move in with Sandra and
Jamie.And then theres the matter of what Sandra does with the pub!!!!
Well I'll be very interested to see what you all come up with.
Oh and just a note to say that I've just come out to 3 of my friends and
it feels great!,I can't put into words just how happy I'm feeling just
now,but I think you all know!!
JOE
**************************************************************
From: David
Date: 5/31/97 1:52AM
Subject: I think the crunch has arrived!
Heres a quote from an email I received today from Demon Internet. As a result I'm going
to be moving many parts of the B.T. web-site to another server over the weekend and next
week.
I'll have to set a redirect from it's current location - I hope it doesn't cause
problems. Continue to access it on it's current URL - don't alter your bookmarks.
--------------------
Dear Webmaster.
This is to inform you that your WWW pages on our Homepages service
have exceeded 25 Mbytes of data transfer per day for at least seven days
in the current calendar month.
In accordance with our Acceptable Use Policy
your site has therefore
been transparently moved to the Resource Limited Homepages server.
In order to be transparently returned to the Standard Homepages server
it is necessary for the site to generate less than 25Mbytes of data
transfer to non-Demon hosts every day during the last 7 days of a calendar
month. If your site was moved during the last 7 days of this month, then
next month will be used for this calculation. When your usage does drop in
this way, your site will be automatically moved back on the first day
of the next month.
The move to the RLS is transparent to both you and people who use your
site. It does not affect any URLs or your FTP access to the site.
However, users of your site may find that the performance of your site
is impaired since it is now sharing a machine with all the other high
bandwidth sites.
--------------------
Regards, Davie
**************************************************************
From: Mike
Date: 5/31/97 1:55AM
Subject: Re: Sequel> Harry and Jay
At 6:43 PM -0400 5/30/97, Harry wrote:
<snip>
>However, it is also entirely consistent with the story to imagine them
>together. The image that comes to mind is the look that Ste gives Jamie as
>they are in the pool. Opposites attract, gay and straight. One partner is
>athletic, the other artistic. One outgoing, the other reserved. Ste's
>look is protective love, a look that says that he knows that Jamie is
>intimidated, out of his element and uncomfortable and he loves him all the
>more for it, in part because he can protect him. Out of that
>interdependency grows a life long love.
Oh yeah. A life long love. So lets plug in the next thing you say:
>I get very tired of gay films, made by straights or gays, that emphasize
>our tragic life; almost as though we should go into an ally after a gay
>film and slit our wrists because gays live a
>tragic/violent/depressed/brittle life. I choose to be gay because it makes
>me happy. Because I can fall in love with someone of my same sex and feel
>ALIVE. That's what we respond to in BT.
So, here's the question: How can a sequel have this up-beat "sunny" quality
we love so much and still go a few steps further and explore the complexity
of gay personalities, gay relationships and gay love? Life ain't gonna be
no bed a roses for our lads but it would be doing them and ourselves a
disservice if we don't find some way for love (whatever that may mean) to
triumph in the end.
So let's take a look at Jay's very well thought through scenario:
At 8:03 PM -0400 5/30/97, JP wrote:
>OK, here's my scenario:
>
>A. The situation at the end of BT:
>
>B. The next installment:
>
<snip>
>Things finally come to a head when Jamie tells Ste that he's been seeing
>other boys. Ste is despondent, and stays out all night, getting pissed and
>sleeping over at the house of an older guy he meets at the Gloucester. When
>he finally does go home, Ste is confronted by Ronnie, and has to confess to
>being gay. The next scene is tastefully only hinted at: Ste is beaten black
>and blue, and told to get out for good. It's clear that this is it. He goes
>over to Leah's for awhile, but is too scared of Ronnie to stay on Thamesmead.
> Leah goes to Sandra, and negotiates for Ste to come and stay with her and
>Jamie. So, Ste ends up living with Jamie and Sandra, just as he and Jamie
>have broken up!
>
>Hmm, but have they broken up? Or have they become brothers, discovering a
>love deeper than they realised was possible before?
I like this scenario a lot. It feels real to me and brings the audience a
little closer to understanding something about what it means to grow up gay
in a homophobic society.
To get to what I mean by that, I have to digress just a bit.
One of the things I've slowly focused on over the years is the peculiar way
in which gays have been forced to "act out" many of the very behaviors
homophobes point to as justifications for their attitudes *about* gays. I
mean, how can you trust people who lie to you and "sneak around" for sex in
secret places? Straight society makes being gay illegal or at least
something "to be ashamed of" etc., and then condemn gays for behaving
"shamefully." Or, with another turn of the screw, get upset when gays are
open with their affections in public and accuse us of "flaunting" our
behavior.
If I believed society was doing all this with some conscious intention, I'd
say we have no hope. But as fortune would have it, I don't' think it is
conscious. People take on these attitudes without thinking, with zero
awareness of what they are doing. I have a sister, for example, who is a
born again Christian. I've pointed out to her that attitudes such as she
holds towards gays are UN-Christian precisely because they cause great
harm, even suicide, for many often very young gay people. Rather than
FEELING that, she just says, "My beliefs are based on scripture." Obviously
there is no point arguing with such an ignorant an insensitive attitude.
So, what works? I think what works is to get people to FEEL what their
attitudes do to people. This is one of the Beautiful Things about movies
like BT. They can do just that.
So here's a situation where this lovely wonderful sweet young man, Ste, is
just about to go out of his mind. Who loves Ste? Not his "family" Trev'n
Ronnie. Jamie does and Leah does (and Sandra, too, to an extent) and they
are this lad's only hope. His life literally depends on them.
So this "brothers, discovering a love deeper than they realized was
possible before" becomes a new level of self-understanding and self-imaging
for us as gay men and women.
We need to hone in on this. We need to open our eyes and become sensitized
to the many ways our attitudes -- towards ourselves and towards others we
perceive as "different" (implication negative) -- contribute to not only
the pain and suffering of the world, but our own personal pain and
suffering.
Yeah, BT is a "sunny" gay film but it is pointing to something. It is
pointing to love as a force stronger than hate and ignorance. This is not
to say that love wins all the battles; Robbie's Story* being the prime
example. But fear and the anger and hatred it generates can not HEAL us
from the inside out. Only love and the understanding that comes with it can
do that. This is why we need one another, need lovers, families of choice
and -- BT lists with cyber friends!.
(*To newcomers -- this is a reference to a sad story posted a couple weeks
ago about a gay teenager that committed suicide. If you'd like the original
post, e-me privately and I'll send it to you.)
Mike
**************************************************************
From: Todd
Date: 5/31/97 7:32AM
Subject: Re: Sequel> Harry and Jay
----------
> From: Mike
> Subject: Re: Sequel> Harry and Jay
> Date: Saturday, May 31, 1997 1:55 AM
>
>
> If I believed society was doing all this with some conscious intention,
I'd
> say we have no hope. But as fortune would have it, I don't' think it is
> conscious. People take on these attitudes without thinking, with zero
> awareness of what they are doing. I have a sister, for example, who is a
> born again Christian. I've pointed out to her that attitudes such as she
> holds towards gays are UN-Christian precisely because they cause great
> harm, even suicide, for many often very young gay people. Rather than
> FEELING that, she just says, "My beliefs are based on scripture."
Obviously
> there is no point arguing with such an ignorant an insensitive attitude.
>
So you have one of those too. Mine happens to be primarily with my brother
& sister-in-law. The interesting part is that my brother 'has concurred
those feelings'. Yea, what ever. I always think it is interesting that
many people who criticizes our lives (being gay) are those whose
'straightness' is threatened because we are free to express ourselves and
be who we are without fear. I think it's just jealousy. In my
sister-in-laws case, it's just closed mindedness. And then they wander why
we separate ourselves from our families some times.
Todd
**************************************************************
From: David
Date: 5/31/97 9:10AM
Subject: Thankyou for making my morning SOOOO good :)
Thanks to Jason, Jeff, Gavin and Joe (for the birthday card).
You made this morning absolutely stunningly fantasticly great. It was worth being up at
6.30am!
Jason, you have a great voice, thanks for spending so long on the phone with me.
Love, Davie.
**************************************************************
From: David
Date: 5/31/97 9:16AM
Subject: Re: Looking for advice
Chik wrote...
> I really have use for a good advice now. So, please tell me what you
> think.
> I found out that he thinks me being sweet but not more.
That's a good start, something to build on. If you hope to get into a
relationship with him there is so much more to discover about
each other before you decide you both want to be boyfriends.
> What if he plays with me too, then? And according to his
> best friend he's not the guy for relationships.
Have you wondered why that is? Maybe he is scared of getting
into a relationship that will end up hurting him. Try to know him
from his own point of view, maybe it will help you decide what to do.
> I do like him, but I too, don't wanna be hurt
There's a saying I like: "It is better to have loved and lost, than
never to have loved at all".
Yes there will be doubt and possibly sometimes pain, that is
the trade you make with Cupid in order for him to find *the* guy for you.
Go for it!
> P.S. Hope I described the situation rightly; my english is rudimentary
> at the best.
Your English is good.
Davie.
**************************************************************
From: <jmcs
Date: 5/31/97 10:50AM
Subject: A couple of things
Hello everybody,
I don't know why but I'm in such a good mood today! I had a dream you know.
Maybe it's silly but sometimes a good dream is enough to make you start the
day with a smile on your face. Guess about who I dreamed of (a hint: there
were two of them, young and beautiful).
Another thing: I already made the copies of the Spanish video cover BUT I
can't send them until Monday. All posts offices are closed by now. I'll
register them, just in case. I've had a couple of accidents (several
packages of mine have been lost and I won't take any chances). With a little
bit of luck, they will arrive at about Wednesday/Thursday.
It just occurred to me that a friend of mine sent me a picture... (ohmigod,
what a picture!!). How could I miss such a picture!! But the Spanish
promotion of BT was nonexistent and I got tired of buying magazines,
newspapers, etc. Anyway, he sent me a photocopy of a picture: Glen and
Scott, both in dark sweaters; Scott has longer, pointy hair (and blond!),
hands in his pockets. Behind him is Glen whose arms wrap Scottÿs shoulders.
Their expression is one of: Looks at us! We're pucker! We're cute! And we're
happy! And God help me, they are!! I drool every time I see them. Well, I'm
not seeing them right now, but I'm drooling all the same.
It's so rare to find a new picture of BT or of any member of the cast that I
thought this was a very rare picture to see so if any of you is interested
or better still, Davie, shall I send it along with the Spanish video cover?
Take care,
Sandra.
**************************************************************
From: David
Date: 5/31/97 10:57AM
Subject: Re: A couple of things
Sandra wrote...
Itÿs so rare to find a new picture of BT or of any member of the cast that I
thought this was a very rare picture to see so if any of you is interested
or better still, Davie, shall I send it along with the Spanish video cover?
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!
Davie.!!
**************************************************************
From: Mike
Date: 5/31/97 11:26AM
Subject: Re: Looking for advice
At 10:28 PM +0200 5/30/97, Chik wrote:
>Remember that guy I told you all about??? Matija was his name.
>I found out that he thinks me being sweet but not more. And he no longer
>goes with that guy from the disco. The thing that bugs me is that he
>'only played' with him, you know. And that made me a bit unsecure about
>my next step. What if he plays with me too, then? And according to his
>best friend he's not the guy for relationships. I do like him, but I
>too, don't wanna be hurt (who does? except SM-guys? :))
>I'd be glad if you'd give me your opinion about it.
>P.S. Hope I described the situation rightly; my english is rudimentary
>at the best.
No problem with your English, Michael! What you are describing is a
universal problem that all of us face at times in life. In English, the
word for how you feel about Matija is "crush" -- you have a crush on him.
Often crushes are one-sided, not shared equally by both.
What to do? Hard to say. First of all, let yourself enjoy having the
feelings you have without expecting anything more should happen. Maybe
something more will happen, maybe not. But try to enjoy the feeling for
what it is. I love having crushes -- hey I'm almost 50 years old but having
a crush on someone makes me feel like a teenager and I love it!
Second, by gentle with yourself and with Matija. Right now you feel very
attracted to him. Apparently he doesn't feel the same toward you. Who knows
why. The thing is, you don't know. You don't really know him and he
doesn't really know you. Let your body breathe more deeply. Enjoy the
sensation of being young and alive and full of health. Let in how wonderful
it is to be alive and haveing these feelings.
We all get very confused about physical attraction on the one hand vs.
emotional attraction on the other. There is a difference but it is
sometimes difficult to tell which is which.
I may date a guy. I might find him very attractive, physically. I may want
to sleep with him, have sex with him. But I'm not in love with him.
Sometimes I end up falling in love with someone I sleep with, but not
always. And, sometimes I fall in love with someone that I'm not physically
attracted to. I know that sounds strange, but it happens!
Obviously this can get very confusing for everyone and it is best when two
people find one another attractive and fall in love with each other
equally. In my experience, though, this is rare. Why? Who knows! The same
reason the sky is blue, probably: it just is.
Every gay man and woman has to find their own way to deal with this. No one
can tell you how, exactly. I can tell you how I do it, others can tell you
how they do it, and you'll see: they are different. There is no right or
wrong way, only what works for you.
You have made a great first start! You have these feelings for someone. You
see they may not be "safe" for you, they might hurt you because you feel
strongly in a way they do not. This is good! You are so FORTUNATE to know
this. Not everyone is so lucky to know this. So this is not a safe
situation. Maybe this situation will change. Maybe you will get to know
Matija and he will get to know you and his feelings will change. That is
possible.
Then again, you may have to move on, Michael. You may have to save your
energy for someone else who is more interested in you. That's hard, I know,
but that may be what you'll have to do.
I look for people who are interested in me. I look to see if someone is
looking at me. If I see someone and he smiles, I smile back. Maybe that is
all that happens! But I feel good about that. Maybe I say, "Hi, my name is
Mike what's yours?" and we talk. Maybe we get to know one another. Maybe we
go out to dinner or a movie. Maybe we go to my house or his. Maybe not.
Maybe we become just friends. Maybe we become lovers. It's all okay, you
know?
Anyway, Michael, you're a wonderful young man and you needn't worry. Life
will bring you many men who will want you. Yes, you will be hurt by a few
of them. But you may hurt a few of them yourself, you know? Not because you
are mean, but because that's just the way things are. Sometimes I think the
god Eros likes to make fools of us, such is the nature of love! But, if
Eros wills, you will also find someone who loves you as much as you love
him. Then the hills will sing with beautiful love songs and the stars will
shine brighter than before.
:-)
Mike
**************************************************************
- From: Mike
- Date: 5/31/97 11:35AM
- Subject: Re: thanks for feedback
-
- At 10:07 PM +0200 5/30/97, Chik wrote:
-
- >Hi Mike,
- >
- >Thanks for your feedback. I don't think I should be more cautionious
-
- You are probably right, Michael.
-
- >But I give you right in the second thing you've mentioned...at least
- >partially. I will remove his address but I don't think I'm outing Matija
- >by mentioning his name.
-
- Mentioning his name is probably alright, I agree.
-
- Again: Everyone visiting my page is supposed to
- >be gay for himself or at least not a gay-hater
-
- I hope that is so. You are probably right.
-
- >And I think, even if
- >someone knows Matija, he wouldn't tell it everyone.
- >But thanks for your feedback, I really appreciated it. Feel free to
- >criticise me again :)
-
- I think you're Great!!
-
- Cya,
-
-
- Mike
**************************************************************
From: Mike
Date: 5/31/97 12:13PM
Subject: Re: A couple of things
At 4:50 PM +0200 5/31/97, jmcs wrote:
>Their expression is one of: Looks at us! We're pucker! We're cute! And we're
>happy! And God help me, they are!! I drool every time I see them. Well, I'm
>not seeing them right now, but I'm drooling all the same.
>It's so rare to find a new picture of BT or of any member of the cast that I
>thought this was a very rare picture to see so if any of you is interested
>or better still, Davie, shall I send it along with the Spanish video cover?
>
Yo, Sandra,
Yes, send it to Davie! Hopefully he can scan it and put it on the web for
us. I have a scanner, by the way, and could do that as well -- if Davie
hasn't the time. I'm half a planet away from ya, tho. What say?
Mike
**************************************************************
From: Bruce
Date: 5/31/97 3:22PM
Subject: Promotion by Sony
Hello, fellow BT fanatics! Does anyone know if Sony is doing ANY
promotion at all for Beautiful Thing here in the States? If so it isn't
apparent to me. I just visited their web site a few days ago and,
amazingly, there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of the fact that it is now on
video and available for rental. Now I'm not an HTML genius but it would be
VERY simple to add just a little blurb about this. It would probably take
about 5-10 minutes at the most to do it. Why haven't they? In fact, the
web site looks exactly as it did the first time I checked it out back in
November of '96, when I first saw the film.
I hate to criticize these people because they were at least nice enough
to release it here on video (although the person who thought up that cover
should be slapped). They didn't have to. But, if their strategy is to
make sure as few people as possible hear about this movie and rent it then
they are doing a fine job. If, however, they honestly want people to rent
it and, at some point, purchase it then they are doing a really awful job.
They could AT LEAST put some small ads in some of the gay magazines. This
movie has gotten glowing reviews from Genre, Out and, I believe, The
Advocate, but I haven't seen any ads in any of those magazines. Surely a
HUGE company like Sony can afford to buy at least a SMALL ad in a national
magazine?
This is a really WONDERFUL film that should be seen by everyone. What
are these people doing?
Bruce
**************************************************************
From: Mike
Date: 5/31/97 3:55PM
Subject: Re: Promotion by Sony
At 11:22 AM -0800 5/31/97, Bruce wrote:
> This is a really WONDERFUL film that should be seen by everyone. What
>are these people doing?
>
I sincerely believe they are clueless. That's why we've got to keep writing
them. Bruce, take the email you just sent to us and send it to them!
http://www.spe.sony.com/Pictures/feedback.html
If we keep at this, it WILL make a difference somewhere down the road!
Mike
**************************************************************
From: Leonard
Date: 5/31/97 5:23PM
Subject: Re: A couple of things
jmcss wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> Itÿs so rare to find a new picture of BT or of any member of the
> cast that I
> thought this was a very rare picture to see so if any of you is
> interested
> or better still, Davie, shall I send it along with the Spanish video
> cover?
>
> Take care,
>
> Sandra.
>
> _______
Sandra, if nobody's told you, I will. You are wonderful.
I am always on the lookout for new BT pictures, as well as those of Glen
and Scott. If I find anything new that appears down-under, you will be
first on my mailing list.
Love
Leonard
P.S. How many others out there dream of this movie. I know I do,
constantly.
**************************************************************
From: Leonard
Date: 5/31/97 5:30PM
Subject: Sequel
Hi everybody,
The one thing that really got me about BT is how appropiate every Mama
Cass song was. From the opening credits with "Things can only get
better" to "Dream a little dream" and "Move a little closer".
Every
song captured the moments perfectly.
How many of you can remember a scene from the movie just by humming a
few bars from the relevant song.
My point is, what music will accompany the "sequel" to recreate the
beauty performed by Mama Cass.
"Make your own kind of music"
Leonard
P.S. If anyone mentions "The greatest love of all" as the theme song I
will slap the silly. Even if I have to travel half way round the world
to do it.
**************************************************************
From: J M
Date: 5/31/97 6:24PM
Subject: Re: Thankyou for making my morning SOOOO good :)
David wrote:
>
> Thanks to Jason, Jeff, Gavin and Joe (for the birthday card).
>
> You made this morning absolutely stunningly fantasticly great. It was worth being
up at 6.30am!
>
> Jason, you have a great voice, thanks for spending so long on the phone with me.
>
> Love, Davie.
Davie,
I would do it a million times over hun, what laughs we had! I twas
worth sleeping only 2 hours and being a cranky bitch most of the
morning!
Luve ya!
Jason
--
**************************************************************
From: J M
Date: 5/31/97 6:27PM
Subject: Re: A couple of things
I want that picture!! Please!!
jmcs wrote:
>
> It just occurred to me that a friend of mine sent me a picture... (ohmigod,
> what a picture!!). How could I miss such a picture!! But the Spanish
> promotion of BT was nonexistent and I got tired of buying magazines,
> newspapers, etc. Anyway, he sent me a photocopy of a picture: Glen and
> Scott, both in dark sweaters; Scott has longer, pointy hair (and blond!),
> hands in his pockets. Behind him is Glen whose arms wrap Scottÿs shoulders.
> Their expression is one of: Looks at us! Weÿre pucker! Weÿre cute! And weÿre
> happy! And God help me, they are!! I drool every time I see them. Well, Iÿm
> not seeing them right now, but Iÿm drooling all the same.
> Itÿs so rare to find a new picture of BT or of any member of the cast that I
> thought this was a very rare picture to see so if any of you is interested
> or better still, Davie, shall I send it along with the Spanish video cover?
>
> Take care,
>
> Sandra.
**************************************************************
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