**************************************************************

>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:17:11 -0800

>From: Jay

>Subject: Re: Stories -Reply

>

>I've also have been having problems posting to the list recently, so am

>resending this - sorry if you've all seen it before (I've edited it a

little...)

>

>***

>

>One aspect of Beautiful Thing that I haven't seen discussed on this list

>yet is Jamie's relationship to Sandra, so I leap in with this:

>

>I think that the story is as much about Jamie's relationship with his mum

>as it is about Jamie and Ste. Sandra has a unique position in the story:

>She is the only "real" adult character. Ste's father (who is only an

>off-stage voice in the play), is "dead to the world" (in Ste's words).

>Tony is a "Peter Pan", not ready for adult responsibility. Sandra is

>responsible, moving forward, "getting better". (SHE is the only tenant

>with flowers outside her door, bright colors inside).

>

>The real man in Sandra's life is Jamie. The boyfriends come and go

>(somehow we know Tony's doomed from the start), but she has her

>Jamie, and can imagine "you and me curled up on this [sofa] on a

>winter's evening".

>

>In the beginning of the film Jamie is still a child in her eyes, he even wets

>his pants ("so 'e 'ad a littl' accident, y'know" she tells Miss Chuan").

>Sandra is still playing the sexy young thing - the sexual focus of the

>household is on her. By the end of the film Jamie has grown up in her

>eyes, and become a sexual being in his own right, something that

>inevitably happens in every "normal" mother-son relationship, except of

>course Sandra's son is gay - but one reason the story is so powerful it

>that Jamie relationship to his mum is so "normal", the gay part doesn't

>really matter to her in the long run, what matters is that her son is

>growing up and she has to adjust to it...

>

>And she quickly adjusts - in fact, she's the one who gets him to admit to

>himself (and her) what's really going on. Without Sandra he might still be

>denying he's gay. And once Sandra understands the real situation, she

>flawlessly shifts gears - she's been "fighting for 'im" all her life, and

>she's not going to stop now.

>

>At first she is reluctant to accept Ste's new status in her and Jamie's life,

>( typical of a mother-in-law), while Ste is almost obsequious towards her

>("that's my name Ste, don't wear it out"). But, by the final scene she has

>joined in with the dance, and is joking with Ste in her typical way ("if your

>father could see you now.."). The looks she gives to the community

>gathering around them as they dance are clearly challenging, like a

>mother hen protecting her chicks (now numbering 3). This final scene

>reminds me of a wedding - a ceremonial witnessing of the union of Jamie

>and Ste, supported by Sandra and Leah. I think that their support of

>Jamie and Ste is/will be crucial to the success of the relationship. Most

>gay men still need and want women in their lives, and desparately need

>their support.

>

>The scene where Jamie and Sandra visit her new pub always brings

>tears to my eyes. They are still linked together, more than ever. Will

>Sandra get a new boyfriend? Or will she take Tony back? Will Jamie

>and Ste stay together? How long? One thing I'm sure, Sandra and Jamie

>will be close their whole lives ...

>

>:o) jay

>

 

**************************************************************

>From: Ralf

>Subject: AW: Some observations and questions @ BT

>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:57:29 -0800

>

>>

>> >> What movie did Jamie turn on to watch after bailing out of football

>> >> practice?

>>

>> The credits say "Rosie and Jim" or something like this. Never heard of

>> it. Even IMDB doesn't list it.

>>

>> >> After Sandra talks to them both, after the hankey, and she leaves

>> >> (with a 5 minute warning) Jamie goes over and sits with Ste and

>> takes his

>> >> hand to give his love and support, to share his strength. It was a

>> small

>> >> but incredibly intima e act, it was the stuff that relationships

>> are

>> >> cemented with. For me, this was more important,

>> >> more romantic, more significant, than the forest scene

>>

>> Yes, I think this is one of the most touching scenes of the movie.

>> This gesture says more than a thousand words.

>>

>> >> Finally, "Beautiful Thing" made me feel like a healthy human, fully

>>

>> >> awake and fully alive, everything having potential and promise.

>> That

>> >> there is freedom to be found in honesty. Trust in the love in

>> yourself

>> >> and trust in the love in others.

>>

>> I totally agree.

>>

>> Ralf

>>

**************************************************************

>Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:53:57 -0800

>From: Bruce

>Subject: Re: USA video release announcement

>

>>Columbia Tristar Home Video, a division of Sony Corp, will release

Beautiful Thing nationwide in the USA for rental on May 20th 1997. The video

will be available to buy towards the end of the year.

>

>

> HOORAY!! HOORAY!! HOORAY!! HOORAY!!

>

 

**************************************************************

>Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:36:07 -0500

>From: JW

>Subject: Re: Some observations and questions @ BT

>

>Clem,

>

>Thanks for the insightful questions/comments on BT. Here's a stab at

>answering some of your questions:

>

>-What movie did Jamie turn on to watch after bailing out of football practice?

>

> The screen play says Jamie's watching an old black and white weepie on the

>telly. I know a few of the stars from the 40's, but you'd have to be a real

>movie buff to know what movie it's from by just looking at a 2 or 3 second

>clip. At least when I get the video, I will be able to pause at this point

>and determine who the starlet is. I think Jamie's fawning at the starlet's

>dialogue (Jamie actually tilts his head in swooning to her words) is a

>little over played. I mean that Jamie just sat down to the movie a few

>minutes before and to be so "into" the movie this soon seems a little over

done.

>

>-Would any eyebrows be raised by parents or peers by a boy who was always

>gelling his hair? Or is that quite "normal" these days?

>

> I think that most teens will do almost anything to stay ahead of the

>fashion curve. Gelling hair doesn't seem so far out of the realm of

>possibility, even for an average teenage boy.

>

>-When Leah is singing Mama Cass to Jamie on the porch, is she really trying

>to do an American accent? I believe the stageplay has her doing so...

>

> The screenplay says the same thing: "Leah drops her south-east London

>accent and adopt the clear USA tones of her idol, Mama Cass." My vocal

>music ear and my knowledge of Mama Cass' music isn't that good to know if

>her accent changes. I think that this scene is important because it

>establishes the banter between Sandra and Leah that we see evolve into their

>supporting Jamie and Ste at the end of the movie.

>

>-Doesn't Sandra come across at the beginning of the film as just bitter

>and mean? Really unlikeable? I have to admit that after my forth viewing

>I've warmed to her considerably though.

>

> I don't think she's bitter or mean. I think she's a kid who has a kid who

>is coming of age and she doesn't know what to do. Witness the scene where

>Jamie and Sandra fight in the lounge and Sandra admits "I never had a mother

>so what do I know about bringing up kids." Also, I think Sandra is really

>struggling to figure out why Jamie is being "hit" with the gay bashing on

>his books and the name calling in school. I must admit that I don't see

>Jamie's shyness or ease with which he's picked on as meaning he's gay.

>Hell, if that were the case half the population would be gay. With bullies

>it's "who's the easy target this week?" Sandra just can't figure out why

>he's the continual target.

>

> Along this line, I really think that Jamie gives up too easily when his

>football is sent into the lake and then Brian McBride pushes him in. Jamie,

>I think, comes across a lot stronger than what he portrays here. Maybe it's

>Jamie's build, his good looks, his obvious intelligence that indicate a

>stronger person who shouldn't be so easy to push around. It just seems to

>me that Jamie has the capability to engage Brian McBride and the others in a

>splashing duel in the lake a little longer than he does.

>

>-What does Sandra mean when she says, "...it's unnatural for a girl Leah's

>age to be into Mama Cass..."?

>

> I think Sandra is just surprised that Leah, a teen in the 90's, is

>fascinated by a singer of the 70's. I would have to defer to others for a

>more rigorous explanation.

>

>-It seems to me that when Ste is making tea he actually takes the skillet

>off the stove and over to the counter and is doing some kind of prep work

>or something with it when he dashes off to shut-up Leah.

>

> Have to wait until I get the movie. The effect the Jonathan Harvey is

>trying to get to is the sheer terror in Ste's eyes when he's coming back to

>his flat, realizes that the tea's burning and Trevor has locked him out.

>Jonathan has an excellent way of conveying feeling and underlying meaning by

>just a look or a glance and not a graphic showing of the actual event.

>

>-Doesn't Trevor actually look like a stereotypical "twit"?

>

> Not sure what you mean by "twit." He's described in the stage directions

>of the screenplay as "nineteen and dresses pretty hip." Trevor is so into

>himself and his little drug trade, that I don't think he has a clue about

>life and what it's really about. The reviewer in the Baltimore Sun calls

>him "cruel," but he's one of the "bullies that will be left in the dust" as

>Jamie and Ste grow from their experiences as young adults.

>

>-Didn't the film seem to have segues between scenes that seemed just a

>bit too sharp, a little too quick?

>

> I agree. It seems that some of the scenes could last a little longer. I

>think there is further development on a particular story line many times,

>i.e., when Ste brings Jamie the hat and they talk about planning a future

>rendezvous. I wish we could have spent more time just enjoying them

>enjoying each other's company. I don't know if this segueing back and forth

>is to heighten the tension we as viewers feel because we want to get to the

>scenes when Jamie and Ste are together or if it is to give the feeling that

>there are other events going on simultaneously that affect the outcome of

>the movie. I thought when I saw the movie the first time that the flipping

>to other scenes was just to build up the anticipation of when Jamie and Ste

>celebrate their love for each other.

>

>-In the film, how are we supposed to know that Tony is a middle class

>slacker? By that business regarding which game shows they all watched,

>'haps?

>

> I think Sandra addresses this on the walkway the night Jamie comes out to

>her. Sandra really berates Tony for never having to have fought for

>anything because he's never stood for anything. We know this of Tony

>because of the "oh, you know, out and about, here and there. What's a

>place? It's somewhere where, you know, shit happens" talks he has with

>Jamie on the balcony earlier. The screenplay also says "Tony speaks in an

>irritating middle-class-trying-to-have-street-cred accent, forever trying to

>have the same accent as everyone else." He's everything to everybody, but

>nothing when it really counts.

>

>-Was the dumping of the burned potatoes onto Ste's plate by his shit of a

>dad meant simply to be a rebuke or was it a form of punishment (i.e., he

>has to now eat it all)? By Ste's reaction, I'm guessing the latter but

>it wasn't clear (to me, at least).

>

> The screenplay stage directions confirm the latter. After Ronnie scrapes

>the contents of his plate onto Ste's, Ste says: "I can't eat all that."

>"Ronnie, on his feet, looms menacingly over the cowering Ste. He (Ronnie)

>obviously thinks different." Even later when Trevor is preparing drugs for

>his night's work, the stage directions say "Ste lies clothed on his bed with

>digestive pains from eating three plates of bubble and squeek." It's

>obvious that Trevor got onto the band wagon as well when it came to

>tormenting Ste for burning the tea.

>

>-A possible editing mistake: that lady singer who sang "spend a little

>time with me" (at the bar Sandra worked at) was at the counter ordering a

>drink when Sandra moves around to the front of the bar to kick out Leah

>and her friend, Slasher. The Sandra-POV camera shows the woman to be

>there -- when the camera shows the three primaries at the table, and the

>bar over their shoulders, the woman is gone.

> Now, OK, maybe she moved away....but still, just something I noticed.

>

> I'll have to wait for the movie.

>

>-What's up with the strange expression on Sandra's face after she kisses

>goodnight her friend?

>

> Is this on her way home when she finds Ste crying on the steps? I wondered

>the same thing when I saw the movie. It seems to convey that Sandra has

>ulterior thoughts about Louise. It's kind of like the lingering glance

>Jamie gives to Ste when Ste goes in to make tea. It's a longing glance that

>suggests more. What it says about Sandra and Louise, I don't know.

>

>-The uses of that instrumental music was always dead on right. Was that

>John Altman? I can't quite tell with my CD insert. It really worked in

>the "bed scene".

>

> I have the CD and the "Beautiful Thing Medley" composed of "Peppermint Foot

>Lotion," "Beautiful Thing," "The Gloucester" and "Don't Cry" is some of the

>most beautiful music I have heard. It's probably the visual images it

>evokes after hearing the music during the most moving scenes in the movie.

>It's just like the feeling that comes over me when I hear those first few

>chords of "It's Getting Better." I can see that impish grin of Jamie's when

>he takes off from football and heads home. Or the whole song "Make Your Own

>Kind of Music" and Jamie and Ste's celebration in the park. John Altman's

>use of the guitar and piano is incredible, simple and yet so evocative. The

>use of the "Beautiful Thing" theme for Jamie's contemplative times alone

>fits perfectly too.

>

>-I really liked how the whole scene of their collecting the soaked

>clothing and then interacting was done in silence and loads were

>communicated with just a look! It made it that much more intense!

>

> It was much more intense because I think we all can relate to it. How may

>times have I been in a similar situation, trying to convey all the right

>signals, just hoping that who I was with was thinking the same things I was

>and would just fall into my arms?

>

>-Also, I found the moment of anguished decision making by Ste to move to

>the other side of the bed beautiful. He was deciding on more than just

>repositioning himself on the bed--he was really switching sides.

>

> It's not 100% though. Don't forget that we have to go through the two

>scenes at the party: the one by the pond and then Leah's confrontation and

>Ste's vehement denials that anything happened the night he and Jamie had to

>top n' toe. I think Ste doesn't know how to handle his sexual arousal after

>Jamie massages on the Peppermint Foot Lotion just as he doesn't know how to

>handle Jamie being honest how he feels when they're by the pond. When they

>sleep "head-to-head," I think Ste does it more so because he's confused,

>lonely, appreciative of the closeness (something he's desperately wants) and

>wants to honor Jamie's request, not because he's switching sides. He leaves

>himself an out, room for denial because Ste isn't sure just yet. It takes

>Jamie's honesty by the pond and Ste being on his own to contemplate all that

>has happened. Maybe it's Gina's back handed request for a "shag" that

>convinces Ste of his feelings for Jamie. Or maybe it's Sandra's mistaken

>impression that Ste has a girl friend "Noleen." This is a tough one.

>

>-The song "going on 16" came in too soon. There should have been a few

>more seconds of just plain intimacy. It seems they cut away from Jamie

>and Ste just when they were going to get serious.

>

> I agree. This would have been a perfect place for a minute or two more of

>the "Peppermint Foot Lotion" or "Beautiful Thing" guitar and piano music.

>Music to make us think about the Beautiful Thing happening between these two

>boys. Although any gratuitous or explicit sexual contact between Jamie and

>Ste would ruin the unspoken, unseen beauty that we know they experience.

>Remember the argument we used to say how beautiful the "changing clothes"

>scene was or how we never see the bruises on Ste's chest that lead to the

>Peppermint Foot Lotion in the first place. Experiencing it in our minds

>makes it all the more personal and powerful.

>

>-After Ste gives Jamie the cap, Jamie jokes, and then realizes

>Ste is being serious, pulls off the cap, looks up, says, "what?" and then

>the camera cuts away!!! I was looking at the screen, thinking, what the

>hell are they showing me that is supposed to more important? And when the

>camera cuts back they are already seemingly in the middle of their

>discussions. HUH? This is where Ste finally admits his love of Jamie, to

>both himself as well as Jamie. A crucial moment and we missed part of it.

>I don't know, I just felt jipped....

>

> I know. I got all hung up on the cap in the first place; trying to

>understand the significance of the cap as opposed to another gift to say "I

>Love You." I think that somebody had a posting about additional dialogue at

>this point, but I can't remember it right now. Maybe it's just left up to

>us to figure out how that conversation transpired. Jonathan Harvey's

>excellent use of dialogue could have been used here though.

>

>-After Sandra talks to them both, after the hankey, and she leaves

>(with a 5 minute warning) Jamie goes over and sits with Ste and takes his

>hand to give his love and support, to share his strength. It was a small

>but incredibly intimate act, it was the stuff that relationships are

>cemented with AND THE CAMERA CUT AWAY! For me, this was more important,

>more romantic, more significant, than the forest scene (though they had

>to have kissed (snogged) at some point. Although did anyone else notice

>that Jamie seems to kiss with his mouth closed? Yet Ste with his mouth

>open? Although that doesn't seem to be able to go together that was what

>it seemed like they were doing).

> Argggrgr....

>

> I think that at this point we don't really need to see any more of the

>courtship of Jamie and Ste. We need the "coming out" dance scene at the end

>of the movie to show that they love each other, are sure of it in themselves

>and want to boldly and fearlessly (finally) proclaim it their world.

>Although this again could be another place to insert more dialogue so we can

>enjoy being with Jamie and Ste.

>

>-What is up with Sandra when she says, Yeah, Ste, that's my name, don't

>wear it out." Is she really saying, "Yeah Ste, it is time I guess for you

>to answer

>some of your own questions, be honest, and provide for yourself. You're

>welcome here but don't fuck it up. Especially if you are going to be

>under my roof (i.e., with my son).."

>

> Replace "Right," "Night" and "Cheers" with "Thank You." I think Ste is

>saying "Thank you, Sandra!!!" Remember, Ste has faced nothing but brutality

>from those who are supposed to nurture him through these difficult times of

>growing up. His mum is out of the picture (I wonder what she was like

>considering Ronnie gets the kids???), so he has no tenderness, no where to

>go to bare his soul without fear. Sandra saves him early on when she

>consoles him on the steps by the lake and she accepts him after the scene on

>the balcony when Jamie says, "Ste, she knows. Me mum knows." Another

>contributor commented on Ste's joining Sandra and Jamie when they move out

>to the Anchor. I think he does. Picture it: two men free to be in love,

>on their own, living their life together. I have to hope he does for his

>own sake. I want to believe.

>

>-There is significant physical distance between Sandra and Jamie when

>they are walking around at the Anchor ( an interesting symbol for their

>future, eh?).

>

> The physical distance shows that Jamie has come of age. This scene is like

>two adults window shopping. This is two adults being together, experiencing

>similar circumstances and similar thoughts without exchanging a word. Jamie

>moves and walks with confidence. Before we would have seen him doing those

>annoying little kid things, walking down the bar, bashing the piano to the

>point Sandra would have to close it and move him away. Instead, Jamie pecks

>at the piano as a man, showing his prowess, his dominion over his

>circumstances. We can almost hear the contemplative notes he plays. He

>takes the lead as he and Sandra walk away from the Anchor. He's now the man

>of the family.

>

>-The movie was only @80 mins. Seemed longer though.

>

> I wish it was a lifetime.

>

>-Finally, "Beautiful Thing" made me feel like a healthy human, fully

>awake and fully alive, everything having potential and promise. That

>there is freedom to be found in honesty. Trust in the love in yourself

>and trust in the love in others.

>

> As I have said before: Beautiful Thing is the way I wished it had been

>when.......

>

>

**************************************************************

>From: "David"

>Subject: USA video release announcement

>Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:58:03 +0100

>

>Columbia Tristar Home Video, a division of Sony Corp, will release

Beautiful Thing nationwide in the USA for rental on May 20th 1997. The video

will be available to buy towards the end of the year.

>

>If you want it, tell your local rental store, who will be placing orders

over the next few weeks with their distributors.

>

>They are sending a copy over, which is using what was described ot me as a

'new' sleeve design - which we will scan and place on the web site. I

suspect they are using the UK image of Jamie and Ste with arms around shoulders.

>

>We have no news yet on Laserdisc.

>

>Davie.

>

 

**************************************************************

>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 00:59:25

>Subject: Help

>

>Hi everybody!

>

>This is my second message.

>

>I just wanted to know the meaning of a couple of things:

>

>- (I´m talking about the screenplay of the movie in both cases.)

>

> OK, when Sandra asks Jamie if he´s still being called 'Stumpy' I assumed

that it had something to do with his height. But what does exactly mean?

Short,

> dwarf or something like that?

>

>- When Jamie and Ste are talking in Jamie´s room and Jamie hands Ste the

Gay Times Ste looks at it and then reads the bit about the frottage. The

play says and I quote: "Ste gives a look as though to say 'Thick git!' and

flicks through." What´s the meaning of 'Thick git'?

>

>

>Aside that couple of things I managed to understand the play pretty well.

>

>Well, that´s all for now.

>

>See ya.

>

>

>Sandra.

>

 

 

**************************************************************

>From: "Jeff "

>Subject: Re: Help, Video Release

>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 01:41:54 -0600

>

>I will personally lobby each and every video store in the city of Omaha to

>buy copies of BT! Any chance, you suppose, that they could order one for

>the common person? May 20 cannot come too soon.

>

>As for the guy who desperately wanted to unsubscribe to the BT email

>server. So sorry that he felt compelled to do so. As I said to Tory, this

>is not for the faint of heart, to which came the reply that at least it's

>not the less than enthused.

>

>As for Sandra's comments:

>

>Well, we're not talking about height here, as I've been set straight by

>some of the email loop members. I had thought about the, uh hmm, male

>member angle, but had dismissed, but it makes sense. You joined the loop

>after I brought up the same issue. But I must add that such topics never

>seemed to have come up in lockerrooms in my small Midwestern American town.

>

>

>As for Thick Git, does it mean, "What's this?" or "Wow." We'll have to

>defer to our British friends on this one.

>

>Jeff

>

>

>

>

>----------

>From: jmcs

>Subject: Help

>Date: Tuesday, April 01, 1997 6:03 p.m.

>

>Hi everybody!

>

>This is my second message.

>

>I just wanted to know the meaning of a couple of things:

>

>- (I´m talking about the screenplay of the movie in both cases.)

>

> OK, when Sandra asks Jamie if he´s still being called 'Stumpy' I assumed

>that it had something to do with his height. But what does exactly mean?

>Short, dwarf or something like that?

>

>- When Jamie and Ste are talking in Jamie´s room and Jamie hands Ste the

>Gay Times Ste looks at it and then reads the bit about the frottage. The play

>says and I quote: "Ste gives a look as though to say 'Thick git!' and

>flicks through." What´s the meaning of 'Thick git'?

>

>

>Aside that couple of things I managed to understand the play pretty well.

>

>Well, that´s all for now.

>

>See ya.

>

>

>Sandra.

>----------

>

**************************************************************

>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:56:14 +0100

>Subject: British slang

>

>Hi all!

>

>Just a couple of points about British slang, as there have been a few

>queries about some of the terms used in the movie.

>

>Firstly, "Stumpy" simply means a short person. There was a short boy at

>my high school whose nickname was Stumpy.

>

>"Thick git" is a phrase used to describe someone who has just acted a

>bit dimly, or has perhaps made a stupid comment. It's usually used in an

>affectionate context. For example, if I told my friends that I'd seen a

>movie starring Goldie Hawn, but it actually starred Meg Ryan, then they

>might conclude that I'm a "thick git".

>

>That's all then!

>

>Rupert

>