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From: Rick

Date: 6/8/97 7:11PM

Subject: Screenplay Availability

 

Another new BT fan discovers this excellent mailing list....

 

I just learned this weekend (through Amazon.com books as well as my

local bookstore) that the BT screenplay is not currently available from

the publisher. The book isn't listed as "out of print," so I'm hoping

new copies will become available shortly. Does anyone have more

specific information?

 

Amazon.com does have the original play version in stock (and

discounted).

________________

 

Rick

*****************************************************

From: <HeadDr

Date: 6/8/97 7:22PM

Subject: Circumstances they're in....

 

Davie... That's a curious point!!! I would really like for you to

elaborate on your view of that, please. I personally think that their

circumstances did bring them together but I do not think that it diminishes

their love for each other. After all, aren't we all victims of circumstance

in one way or another....

 

Jim

*****************************************************

From: <HeadDr

Date: 6/8/97 7:23PM

Subject: I have a question..

 

I have watched the movie many times and still can not figure this one out.

When Jamie and Ste go to the gay pub, a gay draws the attention of the drag

queen to them by saying something... I cannot make out what he says. Can

anyone help??

 

Jim

*****************************************************

From: <HeadDr

Date: 6/8/97 7:28PM

Subject: Screen Play

 

I just purchased the screen play from Barnes and Noble. It was very

reasonable priced and got here within a few days. B&N has a site on AOL as

well as on the internet.

 

Jim

*****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/8/97 7:30PM

Subject: Re: I have a question..

 

HeadDr wrote...

 

> I have watched the movie many times and still can not figure this one out.

> When Jamie and Ste go to the gay pub, a gay draws the attention of the drag

> queen to them by saying something... I cannot make out what he says. Can

> anyone help??

The 'gay' is JONATHAN HARVEY, as the wheelchair queen. He says "Fancy wheeling me round the back, mate?"

 

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/8/97 7:35PM

Subject: Re: Circumstances they're in....

 

Jim write...

> Davie... That's a curious point!!! I would really like for you to

> elaborate on your view of that, please. I personally think that their

> circumstances did bring them together but I do not think that it diminishes

> their love for each other. After all, aren't we all victims of circumstance

> in one way or another....

 

In the space of a few days, being artificially thrown together, and at such an age,

they are unlikely to discover true love.

 

Remember it's Sandra that puts them in the bed together - top'n'tail.

 

It's Ste's need for comfort and a sense of belonging that, in my opinion

(having gone thru something similar), leads to him allowing Jamie to massage him.

 

After that it's lust and discovery. Sure they care a lot about each other.

But they have such different interests. Ste is one of the lads. Jamie is a loner.

 

Maybe later they discover love, but I don't think that happened

during the movie.

 

I thought that was the reason people feel so good about it - it

promises us that they will fall in love after we leave the cinema.

 

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: <HeadDr

Date: 6/8/97 10:41PM

Subject: Re: Circumstances they're in....

 

Davie,

 

Thanks, for the answer to the question. If you took offense at the wording

of 'gay' please do not... none was intended!!! Afterall, I am one too...

:)) As for you thoughts, they were very interesting. I only

partially agree with you but do not have time to respond tonight but will

email ya tomorrow with my opinion... (I hope your interested.....LOL)

 

Have a good evening

 

Jim

*****************************************************

From: <Joe

Date: 6/9/97 12:05AM

Subject: Re: The ongoing debate

 

Well, if you say the circumstances are the 'cause of a feeling that they

misinterpret as love or is just a Phase then yes, it isn't Real Love......but

now you bring up a question - WHAT IS REAL LOVE???

 

I mean, people in other cultures, when they marry, are STILL matched up with

their husbands/wives, and even though they weren't in love when they met, or

even knew one another when they met, some of these people DO eventually fall

in love and have REAL LOVE. What the hell is real love anyway???? We all

have these Romantic notions in our head about what real love is. Jaimie and

Ste are young...they are learning what love and life is all about. REAL

LOVE, yes, I would say so......Nothing makes you act as "gay" as those two

unless you are in love. We've all been there....yes?

*****************************************************

From: Kenneth

Date: 6/9/97 12:50AM

Subject: Sequel

 

I may be a spoiler, but I think the story shouldn't be sequeled. It is a

great story and it may be better left alone instead of risking losing its

great appeal to the world if the second edition would fail.

 

I would love to thing that Jamie and Ste live happily ever after, however,

the complications that may be introduced like similar boy-girl

relationships would cheapen the romance of the original story.

 

One persons opinion.

 

I would see the sequel regardless.

 

Does anyone have a source for the soundtrack, script and video cassette?

 

Ken

*****************************************************

From: <Cabaret

Date: 6/9/97 4:04AM

Subject: Re: Screenplay Availability

 

Well, as far as I know, if you order the BT screenplay through Borders, they

can get it for you. They seem ot be very good about getting BT stuff in.

Try there or Waldenbooks, they offered to order it for me too. Hope I

helped. :)

 

Mason

*****************************************************

From: <Cabaret

Date: 6/9/97 4:06AM

Subject: Re: I have a question..

 

Don't feel bad, I had no idea what he was saying until I bought the

screenplay. All I knew was that he was in some way propositioning one of the

boys. What he actually said was: "Fancy wheeling me around the back, mates?"

From the screenplay to you. :)

 

Mason

*****************************************************

From: Gavin

Date: 6/9/97 4:11AM

Subject: Re: Question.

 

At 22:36 6/8/97 +0100, Tom  wrote:

>Don't take the joke too literally, but I think Jamie was refering to

>fromage frais.

 

Probably right. Hadn't thought of that.

 

 

Gav.

*****************************************************

From: Matthew

Date: 6/9/97 4:42AM

Subject: An American BT

 

All this talk of a BT sequel has got me thinking.

 

What would happen if they made an American version of it?

 

Now, I'm an American, and I hope someone never remakes it in the US,

but a few of these ideas were from the BT channel on irc.

 

 

Beautiful Thing: The American Version.

 

It would be based in a trailer park somewhere in the midwest. Muncie,

Indiana is similar to Thamesmead, as far as working class goes.

 

Instead of an apartment building, it would take place in a traler

park. Sandy, her son Jimmy, and the next door neighbor, Steve. And

another neighbor a black girl named LaTasha who's is obsessed with

Petula Clark.

 

Jimmy would steal a copy of OUt and About in Indiana (which would be

really silly because it's free!)

 

Somehow Jimmy and Steve get fake ID's so they can go to a gay bar

called The Glawster (you have to be 21 to get into a bar, you know!)

 

 

Ok, guys, I know this is really bad, but I'm in a wierd mood!

 

HA!

 

What'd you think? I hope I NEVER see this movie made!

 

:)

--

*****************************************************

From: Pat

Date: 6/9/97 6:02AM

Subject: Leah's remark

 

Can someone please explain Leah's comment at the conclusion of the movie:

Ste, referring to the Gloucestor: "There'd by plenty of men."

Leah: "Yeah, and they all dance backwards and never get married!"

 

That just flew over my head, so if someone could clarify that, I would

surely be enlightened!

 

Pat

*****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/9/97 8:18AM

Subject: Do we have any French Translators here?

 

There is a thread in a French gay newsgroup regarding the BT video which I

cannot reply to through my inadequate language skills. Can anyone help by

translating both the articles and my replies from/to French?

 

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: Todd

Date: 6/9/97 8:57AM

Subject: Re: An American BT

 

What a version that would be! I don't know I'd see it though. I'd

imagine that if it were done in the States, it would come off really weird

like 'Chasing Amy'. We don't tend to make good, touchy movies, especially

when it comes to being gay. They tend to leave you with the feeling 'OK.

That was interesting' and that's it.

 

Todd

 

On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Matthew  wrote:

 

> All this talk of a BT sequel has got me thinking.

>

> What would happen if they made an American version of it?

>

> Now, I'm an American, and I hope someone never remakes it in the US,

> but a few of these ideas were from the BT channel on irc.

>

>

> Beautiful Thing: The American Version.

>

> It would be based in a trailer park somewhere in the midwest. Muncie,

> Indiana is similar to Thamesmead, as far as working class goes.

>

> Instead of an apartment building, it would take place in a traler

> park. Sandy, her son Jimmy, and the next door neighbor, Steve. And

> another neighbor a black girl named LaTasha who's is obsessed with

> Petula Clark.

>

> Jimmy would steal a copy of OUt and About in Indiana (which would be

> really silly because it's free!)

>

> Somehow Jimmy and Steve get fake ID's so they can go to a gay bar

> called The Glawster (you have to be 21 to get into a bar, you know!)

>

>

> Ok, guys, I know this is really bad, but I'm in a wierd mood!

>

> HA!

>

> What'd you think? I hope I NEVER see this movie made!

>

> :)

> --

> Matthew

*****************************************************

From: "Harry

Date: 6/9/97 9:16AM

Subject: PAL vs NTSC Versions

 

As I continue to plumb the murky depths of my BT fanaticism, a visit to J&R

Music World on Park Row in Manhattan resulted in the amazingly rationalized

purchase (plastic helped) of a VHS VCR that will play and record in any of

the worldwide video formats, converting from one to another. Naturally,

the first tapes used to test the machine was the PAL and NTSC versions of

BT. The PAL version (purchased recently from the Virgin Megastore on

Oxford Street in London) won hands down. It has a much finer and clearer

resolution, is in widescreen format and cleaner in sound. The American

NTSC version (bought recently in the Virgin Megastore in Times Square in

Manhattan) looks like a copy of a copy (and done on machines with lower

resolution and in poor condition) and as this was the first time I've seen

BT in Pan and Scan, sickening, knowing that this rendition is what most

Americans are going to see as their first introduction to BT. I hope for

America that Sony releases a wide screen laser disk version of BT. (The

VCR purchase will pay for itself after I have bought the 1,237th copy of

the PAL BT version.)

- Harry

*****************************************************

From: Keith

Date: 6/9/97 12:41PM

Subject: PAL vs NTSC Versions -Reply

 

Maybe if we're all lucky, BT will be released on DVD someday. Then you will

get it in Pan and Scan, letterbox, subtitled (in English, Spanish, French,

and German) all on one DVD. Plus it will be clearer (due to DVD's

higher resolution.) And you get 6 channel digital audio surround sound.

 

Keith

 

 

>>> "Harry  06/09/97 08:16am >>>

As I continue to plumb the murky depths of my BT fanaticism, a visit to J&R...

*****************************************************

From: Keith

Date: 6/10/97 11:46AM

Subject: RE: The Ongoing Debate

 

There have been several comments recently about gay relationships and I just

wanted to add my personal thoughts on what BT has meant to me, and how it has

changed me.

 

BT has touched me in a way no other movie ever has. It is about love, innocence,

and most importantly, learning about and accepting yourself (and others) as you/they

are. After seing BT, I joined this list, which is something new to me. After a few

days of seeing the email passing back and forth, I quickly realized I was not the

only one touched in this way. I was soon admitting to people on this list things

I have never told anyone else, and did not feel the least bit uncomfortable.

 

I think BT (and you guys) has finally made me accept myself as I am, and for the

first time in my life I am actually proud of the fact that I'm gay. After seeing BT,

I thought of nothing but coming out to someone. The other day, I told a close

friend. I know him well enough to know he would be cool with it, (which he was)

but it still was the greatest relief to be able to tell someone. Before seeing BT,

I never even considered coming out to anyone.

 

I've been asking myself what it is about BT that affect me so. I think it has

to do with its portrayal of love, not sex. In fact, sex is a almost nonexistent

part of the story. Rather, it is the subtle things in the movie that exemplfy

Jamie's and Ste's love. The shy, hopeful glances, the tender caresses, etc.

I feel the backrub scene is one of the tenderest things I have ever seen in

a movie. Seeing that, I imagine myself getting a backrub from someone.

It doesn't have to lead to sex, at least not yet. Rather, just knowing that

someone cares deeply enough to just be content being together.

 

Now, instead imagining "quickies", or some kind of anonymous sex,

I imagine just holding someone, sitting along the river watching the

ships go by, being surprised when he surprises me out front of my

office after work. Just sharing thoughts. I consider that "normal" feelings

in a relationship.

 

By being invited into Jamie's and Ste's hearts to share in the feelings,

I now realize beautiful it can be. Mike  is right, we are being

constantly surrounded by and bombarded with images of "straight"

relationships. This makes it easy to hide your own feelings, and justify

staying in the closet.

 

Adam, I like the way you put it best - a sweet contentment deep inside.

That's how BT makes me feel.

 

Just wanted to thank everyone for letting me prattle on so, and for helping

to open my eyes to who I really am. Thanks,

 

Keith

*****************************************************

From: "Harry

Date: 6/10/97 11:54AM

Subject: Re: Pilgrimage

 

Splitting hairs:

Gav, I found the same set of flats (& declined to point out the apartment

numbers for privacy purposes) and agree with you that those are the

apartments used in BT. As you did, I shot a whole role of film and would

have shot more if I had thought of bringing it with me.

 

While it is true that the flats are on the 2nd floor, relative to the

Plaza, they are on the 3rd level as the base level is composed of parking

garages, service allys, streets and parks. That base level is seen in the

film in several scenes, one where Ronnie, Ste and Trevor are coming back

from the fights and Ste gets beat up again, and the others are the grassy,

hilly mini park where Leah declines to help Tony with the outdoor chairs

and the scenes just before and after the party, among others. The elevator

in question services the base level, the Plaza level, the '2nd level' of

Jamie, Ste and Leah, and at least a 3rd level above that. It is part of a

brick or poured concrete service shaft that is past a second set of stairs

leading to the Plaza and across a small open area at the further end of the

outdoor hall servicing Jamie, Ste's and Leah's apartments. I've ridden in

it and photographed it with more photos than warrented (had to make sure in

case one or more were bad). Now that you've been there a detailed review

of the film might make it clearer where that elevator is. The film does

use it correctly.

 

While the stairs where Sandra goes down past Trevor and Leah do lead

somewhat away from the 180 bus stop, they do lead to the base level where

the 180 bus stop is. I agree that if Sandra is going directly to the bus

stop then that is not the most direct way, however, we do not necessarily

know that Sandra knows that Jamie and Ste are going to the bus stop at that

point in the film. In fact, she asks Leah and Trevor if they have seen

Jamie so she doesn't know where they are going and those stairs are a

direct route from the apartments to the base level.

 

Your observation about the 180 bus stop is correct, except that the bus

loops through Thamesmead before coming to the bus stop opposite some 8 to

10 minutes later. Since the bus stop used in the film is either the first

or second stop in Thamesmead and the one opposite is nearly last, to get

your choice of seats for the ride into Greenwich you would board the 180

bus at the bus stop shown in the film rather than wait for the nearly full

bus opposite. You could always cross the road if you've missed the bus

coming in and pick it up on it's way out. Besides, the bus stop used has

better camera angles.

 

As far as the bus stop near the Gloucester, I reserve judgement, in as much

as I stopped by on Easter Sunday afternoon and it was clear from the

significant foot traffic into and around the park that the bus would have

tremendous difficulty getting through. However, maybe the bus is routed

differently on weekdays vs weekends. Nor did I find the "pink neon arse'

either but rational explanations beyond poetic license could account for

that discrepency. Maybe Jamie and Ste have it mounted on their bedroom

wall to commemorate their love, their coming out and their first visit to a

gay bar.

 

All of the above comments (except for the 'pink neon arse') could be

revised based on Davie's interview with the 30 year Thamesmead resident,

but I'm fairly confident that they are correct.

- Harry

*****************************************************

From: meso

Date: 6/10/97 12:05PM

Subject: Jaime and Ste happily ever after?

 

Okay, y'all are gonna think me incredibly morbid, but I wanted to

relate this dream I had about Jaime and Ste. It goes along the lines of

what happens to them after the movie ends. Basically, in the dream, they

are in a car, out in the country somewhere, early in the morning, and

Jaime is driving. He looks over at Ste, who is asleep. Suddenly, this

car hits them head on. The next scene is jaime lying in a field several

feet away from the car. He gets up, and looks at the twisted remains of

the car. Then he walks across the road to Ste. Ste is crying. jaime

talks Ste in his arms, and comforts him, and then they turn and look at

the sunrise, and then eerything fades to black, the implication being

that Jaime and Ste both died in the car. They were so together, so tied

to each other, that they were there for each at the end, to help each

other "go on" to "whatever is next". Incredibly morbid, isn't it, but

also sweet, I think, bc it shows how connected they were. I think a

large part of this comes from what I was listening to at the time I

dreamt this (I really should turn the stereo off before I go to bed).

Anyway, just my thoughts.

*****************************************************

From: JOE

Date: 6/10/97 12:17PM

 

Subject: Re: The ongoing debate

 

Mike  wrote:

>

> At 1:36 AM -0400 6/10/97, Kevin  wrote:

> >> DAMN, aren't there ANY more Romantic Gay Guys???

> >Sure - but we don't live next to each other like Ste & Jamie... :(

>

 

> Now what we need are more images of us having RELATIONSHIPS. My god, what

> do you do when the boy-next-door that you've fallen madly in love with

> turns out to be a jock while you're a movie queen? What happens when you

> move in together only to discover he listens to grunge while you prefer

> "The Sound of Music"? What're you going to do when he wants a monogamous

> relationship but you want to, uh hum, play about?

>

Mike, it isn't just straight society that hasn't given us models for

good gay relationships, _we_ haven't set up good models. Or at least

we've tried to make everyone fit certain models.

When I was first coming out, I realized that I was different even

_within_ gay society. I don't like opera, I can't stand most Broadway

show tunes. I despise tuxedos and "formal" occasions. I do like Barbra

Streisand, but Judy Garland was before my time. I never, never

understood drag. Still don't, although I'm fully supportive of people's

transgender rights.

I liked sports, and lettered in cross-country and ice hockey.

Etc., etc. Yet all the models of gay "lifestyles" were much more

confining than I wanted.

If all a guy who comes out knows about is the "bar" scene, he may go

years (if not forever) unaware that there are gay soccer leagues, gay

hockey leagues (with international competition), gay rock bands, and gay

guys who love to wear jeans, t-shirt, hiking boots and love to go

skateboarding.

Sure, Jamie knows the entire cast of "Sound of Music," but he's also not

the stereotypical "showtune queen." Ste is a "jock," but not the

mindless stereotype either. They are both boys - real, but different,

boys. And that is part of the appeal of BT for me.

 

Gary

 

 

****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/10/97 1:28PM

Subject: Our friendly Thamesmead resident writes...

 

Davie wrote...

>WOW! I never knew, all this time a source of info about the estate itself

hiding away within email reach :)))

 

Marc replied...

Even better - I use dalnet to maintain links with my in-laws (I sit in #z1)

and friends from the US.

 

I'll pop into the channel each night until Saturday (my wife will too, as

she is equally addicted to the movie) and will be open to chat with anyone

and we can make arrangements and talk details then.

 

I'll come on about 7pm (my usual time) is that ok?

Marc

 

Marc is talking about 7pm BST, which is 5 hours ahead of EDT, 8 hours ahead of PDT.

 

Regards, Davie

****************************************************

From: Mike

Date: 6/10/97 1:42PM

Subject: Re: The ongoing debate

 

>At 01:20 6/10/97 -0700, Apollo20 wrote:

 

>This' one of my least coherent posts. Sorry. A bit of a catharsis and not

>a little self-indulgent.

>

Are you kidding? Your whole post made total sense. I don't regret having

lost my virginity the way you do, but I certainly agree that "anonomous"

sex (even if you know the guys name, it can still be anonomous if you don't

know the guy) just doesn't cut it. I'm not moralisitic about it. Like you

say, hormones will indeed have their way and that's okay. The problem is

mistaking lust for love or looking for sex when what you REALY want is

love. They are different and need to be approached differently. This,

again, is IMHO. YMMV (Keith, that's: Your Millage May Vary) ;-}

 

Mike

****************************************************

From: Mike

Date: 6/10/97 2:19PM

Subject: a sweet contentment deep inside (was: The Ongoing Debate)

 

At 10:46 AM -0500 6/10/97, Keith  wrote:

<snip>

>After seing BT, I joined this list, which is

>something new to me. After a few days of seeing the email passing

>back and forth, I quickly realized I was not the only one touched in this

>way. I was soon admitting to people on this list things I have never told

>anyone else, and did not feel the least bit uncomfortable.

>

>I think BT (and you guys) has finally made me accept myself as I am, and

>for the first time in my life I am actually proud of the fact that I'm gay.

>After seeing BT, I thought of nothing but coming out to someone. The

>other day, I told a close friend. I know him well enough to know he

>would be cool with it, (which he was) but it still was the greatest relief to

>be able to tell someone. Before seeing BT, I never even considered

>coming out to anyone.

 

YEAYYYYYYY! Congratulations, Keith. It's words like this that warm my

heart. Other guys on the list have said exactly the same thing and it

always makes me SO happy. This is what I want this BT list to be: more than

just a fan club; a place where people can share the Beautiful Things that

our lives truly are. (That doesn't mean no pain, by the way; pain can be a

BT too. When my lover died back in February, this list was a great support.)

 

>I feel the backrub scene is one of the tenderest things I have ever seen

>in a >movie. Seeing that, I imagine myself getting a backrub from

>someone. It >doesn't have to lead to sex, at least not yet. Rather, just

>knowing that >someone cares deeply enough to just becontent being together.

 

Mike . Virtually messages K.B's shoulders and neck. No sex. Totally

content. :-)

 

>Now, instead imagining "quickies", or some kind of anonymous sex, I

>imagine just holding someone, sitting along the river watching the ships

>go by, being surprised when he surprises me out front of my office after

>work. Just sharing thoughts. I consider that "normal" feelings in a

>relationship.

 

Oh YES! That's it. NORMAL that's exaactly what it is. It's also romance.

That's what we have to learn -- what no one ever taught us or has ever

shown us in our social mirrors. How to LIVE a romantic life as a gay man.

How to DEAL with pain. How to COMMUNICATE with our lovers and friends. How

to build families and communities that will support and transform our

lives. It CAN happen. It IS happening. Oh yeah...

 

>By being invited into Jamie's and Ste's hearts to share in the feelings, I

>now realize beautiful it can be. Mike Wells is right, we are being

>constantly surrounded by and bombarded with images of "straight"

>relationships. This makes it easy to hide your own feelings, and justify

>staying in the closet.

 

It's not just "hide" them, its that we don't recognize them for what they

are or for the value they have. Hey, you don't think there's a loveable gay

man right next door? You must be in the Sahara desert, that's all I gotta

say. If that's NOT where you're living, then maybe you might want to look a

little closer. Try to find out, without blame or self criticism, what is

keeping your eyes blind and your heart closed? No, it isn't your fault and

it isn't the fault of your brother, either. We're all "Victimes of the

education...thingamabob" We can blame society but, hey, are we cooperating?

Maybe we are and don't even know it!

 

The question is, how to open the heart? How to fall in love with one's

self, as we are. (I don't mean vanity. I mean genuine acceptance of and

appreciation for who we are.) Not easy. As Mama Cass said, it's:

>

>- a sweet contentment deep inside.

>That's how BT makes me feel.

>

Yep. You've got it. You're hooked! Now try to understand: It is in YOU. The

movie didn't create it. It was in you all along. Even another guy can't

create it. A movie or a poem or a beautiful sunset or a guy may EVOKE this

feeling, but the LOVE is yours. It's all yours! It's in you right now,

today, every day.

 

I say, let's let ourselves HAVE it. Let it FLOW through our veins. Learn to

LIVE it day by day. Yep. That's it. Now we're getting some where...

 

And, in case you're wondering, no, I don't know how to do that either (shy

kinda guy that I am) but I'M LEARNING ... "It's gett'n better..."

 

Love ya all so much,

 

 

Mike

****************************************************

From: "Peter

Date: 6/10/97 2:22PM

Subject: Were They?

 

Were the 2 boys in BT straight?

Peter

****************************************************

From: Mike

Date: 6/10/97 2:24PM

Subject: re forwarding my last post to BT

 

I just posted something to the BT list that quotes from yours of:

 

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:46:55 -0500

From: Keith

Subject: RE: The Ongoing Debate

 

and I'd like permission to cross post it to another list -- one I created.

The list is composed of other gay men (all of whom I know personally) who

will be appreciative of what you said and what I wrote to you. As a rule I

don't cross post without the authors permission. If you wish, I'll strip

out your email address.

 

What do you say?

 

M

**************************************************************

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