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Email Archive Page 21

 
From: Rob
Date: 6/10/97 3:43PM
Subject: Please look after this Davie...
 
Hello to you all,
 
I'll admit to this being my first posting to this newslist - although I
have been subscribed to it basically from the start, so the regulars are
like friends to me (Hello Gavin, Joe, Mike & John!).
 
Last night Davie popped round to collect his belated birthday presents and
admitted that he hadn't been eating proper meals since he moved back to the
farm... so start dropping hints folks... tell Davie to eat and look after
himself! He puts in a lot of effort on behalf of us all keeping the BT site
maintained, and I thank him for it... but...
 
Nice to see the debate running - and the opening scenes of Davie's sequel
idea look excellent... keep up the good work Davie.
 
Rob
- x

*****************************************************

From: Jason
Date: 6/10/97 3:54PM
Subject: Beautiful Members
 
'Ello All!
 
Well I finally got the computer to cooperate with me. On the DalNet
Channel #Beautiful_Thing, I am doing a Member Picture Server thing. If you
would like to offer your picture to everyone who visits the channel, please
send me your photo, and I will get it in there. Please include your regular
nickname, as it will be used to access the picture. As an example, my photo
is in there and you would simply type BTMPS Jason,, that will generate a
send of my photo to you. If you have any questions, I will be glad to
answer them, Please Email me.
 
Thanks, Jason
-----------------------------------

*****************************************************

From: Gavin
Date: 6/10/97 4:05PM
Subject: Re: Visit to Thamesmead
 
At 13:32 6/10/97 +0100, David  wrote:
>He has offered to meet us there, answer questions, and talk about it's
history. He's lived there over 30 years!
>What do you think?
 
Bloody hell, Davie! That's fantastic!
 
 
Gav.

*****************************************************

From: Gavin
Date: 6/10/97 4:25PM
Subject: Re: The ongoing debate
 
At 09:42 6/10/97 -0800, Mike  wrote:
>>At 01:20 6/10/97 -0700, Apollo wrote:
>>This' one of my least coherent posts. Sorry. A bit of a catharsis and not
>>a little self-indulgent.
>Are you kidding? Your whole post made total sense. I don't regret having
>lost my virginity the way you do, but I certainly agree that "anonomous"
 
Well...I apologised because I tend not to write too coherently when I get
emotional like that. But no: I don't apologise for the content. It said
what I wanted it to say.
 
 
Gav.

*****************************************************

From: "Peter
Date: 6/10/97 4:33PM
Subject: RE: a sweet contentment deep inside (was: The Ongoing Debate)
 
Hey..congratulations Keith
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 11:20 AM
> To: Beautiful Thing Email List
> Subject: a sweet contentment deep inside (was: The Ongoing
> Debate)
>
> At 10:46 AM -0500 6/10/97, Keith  wrote:
> <snip>
> >After seing BT, I joined this list, which is
> >something new to me. After a few days of seeing the email passing
> >back and forth, I quickly realized I was not the only one touched in
> this
> >way. I was soon admitting to people on this list things I have never
> told
> >anyone else, and did not feel the least bit uncomfortable.
> >
> >I think BT (and you guys) has finally made me accept myself as I am,
> and
> >for the first time in my life I am actually proud of the fact that
> I'm gay.
> >After seeing BT, I thought of nothing but coming out to someone. The
> >other day, I told a close friend. I know him well enough to know he
> >would be cool with it, (which he was) but it still was the greatest
> relief to
> >be able to tell someone. Before seeing BT, I never even considered
> >coming out to anyone.
>
> YEAYYYYYYY! Congratulations, Keith. It's words like this that warm my
> heart. Other guys on the list have said exactly the same thing and it
> always makes me SO happy. This is what I want this BT list to be: more
> than
> just a fan club; a place where people can share the Beautiful Things
> that
> our lives truly are. (That doesn't mean no pain, by the way; pain can
> be a
> BT too. When my lover died back in February, this list was a great
> support.)
>
> >I feel the backrub scene is one of the tenderest things I have ever
> seen
> >in a >movie. Seeing that, I imagine myself getting a backrub from
> >someone. It >doesn't have to lead to sex, at least not yet. Rather,
> just
> >knowing that >someone cares deeply enough to just becontent being
> together.
>
> Mike . Virtually messages K.B's shoulders and neck. No sex. Totally
> content. :-)
>
> >Now, instead imagining "quickies", or some kind of anonymous sex, I
> >imagine just holding someone, sitting along the river watching the
> ships
> >go by, being surprised when he surprises me out front of my office
> after
> >work. Just sharing thoughts. I consider that "normal" feelings in
> a
> >relationship.
>
> Oh YES! That's it. NORMAL that's exaactly what it is. It's also
> romance.
> That's what we have to learn -- what no one ever taught us or has ever
> shown us in our social mirrors. How to LIVE a romantic life as a gay
> man.
> How to DEAL with pain. How to COMMUNICATE with our lovers and friends.
> How
> to build families and communities that will support and transform our
> lives. It CAN happen. It IS happening. Oh yeah...
>
> >By being invited into Jamie's and Ste's hearts to share in the
> feelings, I
> >now realize beautiful it can be. Mike Wells is right, we are being
> >constantly surrounded by and bombarded with images of "straight"
> >relationships. This makes it easy to hide your own feelings, and
> justify
> >staying in the closet.
>
> It's not just "hide" them, its that we don't recognize them for what
> they
> are or for the value they have. Hey, you don't think there's a
> loveable gay
> man right next door? You must be in the Sahara desert, that's all I
> gotta
> say. If that's NOT where you're living, then maybe you might want to
> look a
> little closer. Try to find out, without blame or self criticism, what
> is
> keeping your eyes blind and your heart closed? No, it isn't your fault
> and
> it isn't the fault of your brother, either. We're all "Victimes of the
> education...thingamabob" We can blame society but, hey, are we
> cooperating?
> Maybe we are and don't even know it!
>
> The question is, how to open the heart? How to fall in love with one's
> self, as we are. (I don't mean vanity. I mean genuine acceptance of
> and
> appreciation for who we are.) Not easy. As Mama Cass said, it's:
> >
> >- a sweet contentment deep inside.
> >That's how BT makes me feel.
> >
> Yep. You've got it. You're hooked! Now try to understand: It is in
> YOU. The
> movie didn't create it. It was in you all along. Even another guy
> can't
> create it. A movie or a poem or a beautiful sunset or a guy may EVOKE
> this
> feeling, but the LOVE is yours. It's all yours! It's in you right now,
> today, every day.
>
> I say, let's let ourselves HAVE it. Let it FLOW through our veins.
> Learn to
> LIVE it day by day. Yep. That's it. Now we're getting some where...
>
> And, in case you're wondering, no, I don't know how to do that either
> (shy
> kinda guy that I am) but I'M LEARNING ... "It's gett'n better..."
>
> Love ya all so much,
>
>
> Mike

*****************************************************

From: Mike
Date: 6/10/97 4:58PM
Subject: Re: re forwarding my last post to BT -Reply
 
At 1:52 PM -0500 6/10/97, Keith  wrote:
>Mike,
>
>Absolutely you can cross post it! Thanks. Feel free to leave me email
>address in the message.
>
>Keith
>
>(P.S. I haven't gotten the post to the BT list yet, so I'm not sure which part
>you are refering to, and what your response is. Maybe you could
>forward it to me?)
 
Ok, here it is. I wonder why you haven't gotten it yet?
 
At 10:46 AM -0500 6/10/97, Keith  wrote:
<snip>
>After seing BT, I joined this list, which is
>something new to me. After a few days of seeing the email passing
>back and forth, I quickly realized I was not the only one touched in this
>way. I was soon admitting to people on this list things I have never told
>anyone else, and did not feel the least bit uncomfortable.
>
>I think BT (and you guys) has finally made me accept myself as I am, and
>for the first time in my life I am actually proud of the fact that I'm gay.
>After seeing BT, I thought of nothing but coming out to someone. The
>other day, I told a close friend. I know him well enough to know he
>would be cool with it, (which he was) but it still was the greatest relief to
>be able to tell someone. Before seeing BT, I never even considered
>coming out to anyone.
 
YEAYYYYYYY! Congratulations, Keith. It's words like this that warm my
heart. Other guys on the list have said exactly the same thing and it
always makes me SO happy. This is what I want this BT list to be: more than
just a fan club; a place where people can share the Beautiful Things that
our lives truly are. (That doesn't mean no pain, by the way; pain can be a
BT too. When my lover died back in February, this list was a great support.)
 
>I feel the backrub scene is one of the tenderest things I have ever seen
>in a >movie. Seeing that, I imagine myself getting a backrub from
>someone. It >doesn't have to lead to sex, at least not yet. Rather, just
>knowing that >someone cares deeply enough to just becontent being together.
 
Mike . Virtually messages K.B's shoulders and neck. No sex. Totally
content. :-)
 
>Now, instead imagining "quickies", or some kind of anonymous sex, I
>imagine just holding someone, sitting along the river watching the ships
>go by, being surprised when he surprises me out front of my office after
>work. Just sharing thoughts. I consider that "normal" feelings in a
>relationship.
 
Oh YES! That's it. NORMAL that's exaactly what it is. It's also romance.
That's what we have to learn -- what no one ever taught us or has ever
shown us in our social mirrors. How to LIVE a romantic life as a gay man.
How to DEAL with pain. How to COMMUNICATE with our lovers and friends. How
to build families and communities that will support and transform our
lives. It CAN happen. It IS happening. Oh yeah...
 
>By being invited into Jamie's and Ste's hearts to share in the feelings, I
>now realize beautiful it can be. Mike Wells is right, we are being
>constantly surrounded by and bombarded with images of "straight"
>relationships. This makes it easy to hide your own feelings, and justify
>staying in the closet.
 
It's not just "hide" them, its that we don't recognize them for what they
are or for the value they have. Hey, you don't think there's a loveable gay
man right next door? You must be in the Sahara desert, that's all I gotta
say. If that's NOT where you're living, then maybe you might want to look a
little closer. Try to find out, without blame or self criticism, what is
keeping your eyes blind and your heart closed? No, it isn't your fault and
it isn't the fault of your brother, either. We're all "Victimes of the
education...thingamabob" We can blame society but, hey, are we cooperating?
Maybe we are and don't even know it!
 
The question is, how to open the heart? How to fall in love with one's
self, as we are. (I don't mean vanity. I mean genuine acceptance of and
appreciation for who we are.) Not easy. As Mama Cass said, it's:
>
>- a sweet contentment deep inside.
>That's how BT makes me feel.
>
Yep. You've got it. You're hooked! Now try to understand: It is in YOU. The
movie didn't create it. It was in you all along. Even another guy can't
create it. A movie or a poem or a beautiful sunset or a guy may EVOKE this
feeling, but the LOVE is yours. It's all yours! It's in you right now,
today, every day.
 
I say, let's let ourselves HAVE it. Let it FLOW through our veins. Learn to
LIVE it day by day. Yep. That's it. Now we're getting some where...
 
And, in case you're wondering, no, I don't know how to do that either (shy
kinda guy that I am) but I'M LEARNING ... "It's gett'n better..."
 
Love ya all so much,
 
 
Mike

*****************************************************

From: Mike
Date: 6/10/97 5:25PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
At 11:22 AM -0700 6/10/97, Peter ) wrote:
>Were the 2 boys in BT straight?
>Peter Dunne
 
That's the scoop, Peter.
 
Hell, I knew I was "gay" (didn't have that word) when I was six years old.
But I have friends who didn't have a clue till they were adults. One friend
said, "I was 22 years old, sitting in my car at a stop light and this guy
was walking across the street right in front of me wearing short shorts and
a tank top and I was looking at him and suddenly it dawned on me -- Oh my
god, I'm attracted to this guy, sexually attracted to this guy -- I must be
gay!" I know men who were so repressed (not merely closeted) they got
married, had kids and then, some suddenly, some over time, it hit them. For
such men coming out can be a VERY painful experience. They feel they don't
know themselves, maybe can't even TRUST themselves. Then, on top of that,
they have their families to come out to; the gay "subculture" to
assimilate. It's not easy.
 
So far as we know, Scott and Glen are straight. I have no reason to believe
otherwise. It doesn't matter to me. They do a DAMN good job portraying
something we all recognize as some part of ourselves, right?
 
PS: this could be an interesting thread. When did you (anyone on the list
who is intrested in shareing) first realize you were gay? How did you feel
when you had this realization?
 
Mike

*****************************************************

From: mesocyclone
Date: 6/10/97 5:31PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
Yes, I believe they were str8, but then, if they were, why'd they do it?

*****************************************************

From: Matthew
Date: 6/10/97 5:36PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
You know, there are so many questions about them being gay!
 
I mean, I have to admit that I wondered the same thing.
 
But, I think that's one of the reasons that we don't see many
characters who are gay...at least by big actors.
 
I mean, everytime an actor is in a gay role, people question their
personal sexuality. I think it makes some actors gay or straight
fearful of playing those roles.
 
They don't want to be typecast, and I think that some producers would
always want an openly gay actor to play a straight role.
 
What do you think?
 
--
Matthew

*****************************************************

From: "Peter
Date: 6/10/97 5:45PM
Subject: RE: Were They?
 
Hi,
I came out when I was 16...to my parents also. They could have cared
less..I am very lucky. You see my dad liberated Buchenwald and is pretty
evolved. My mother just told me how mad that this boy she had a crush on
was gay in college...in the 1940's.
 
I was a freshman...in high school...it was hard but feel sooo glad I did
not have to be closeted about it all. I also had an under age gay club
to be with my tribe at.
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 2:26 PM
> To: Beautiful Thing Email List
> Subject: Re: Were They?
>
> At 11:22 AM -0700 6/10/97, Peter  wrote:
> >Were the 2 boys in BT straight?
> >Peter
>
> That's the scoop, Peter.
>
> Hell, I knew I was "gay" (didn't have that word) when I was six years
> old.
> But I have friends who didn't have a clue till they were adults. One
> friend
> said, "I was 22 years old, sitting in my car at a stop light and this
> guy
> was walking across the street right in front of me wearing short
> shorts and
> a tank top and I was looking at him and suddenly it dawned on me -- Oh
> my
> god, I'm attracted to this guy, sexually attracted to this guy -- I
> must be
> gay!" I know men who were so repressed (not merely closeted) they got
> married, had kids and then, some suddenly, some over time, it hit
> them. For
> such men coming out can be a VERY painful experience. They feel they
> don't
> know themselves, maybe can't even TRUST themselves. Then, on top of
> that,
> they have their families to come out to; the gay "subculture" to
> assimilate. It's not easy.
>
> So far as we know, Scott and Glen are straight. I have no reason to
> believe
> otherwise. It doesn't matter to me. They do a DAMN good job portraying
> something we all recognize as some part of ourselves, right?
>
> PS: this could be an interesting thread. When did you (anyone on the
> list
> who is intrested in shareing) first realize you were gay? How did you
> feel
> when you had this realization?
>
> Mike

*****************************************************

From: Mike
Date: 6/10/97 5:58PM
Subject: Re: Jaime and Ste happily ever after?
 
At 9:05 AM -0700 6/10/97, mesocyclone wrote:
<snip>Then he walks across the road to Ste. Ste is crying. jaime
>talks Ste in his arms, and comforts him, and then they turn and look at
>the sunrise, and then eerything fades to black, the implication being
>that Jaime and Ste both died in the car.
 
Just wondering: did you awaken as "everything faded to black"? If so, that
signifies that although they died in your unconscious, they have been
reborn in you.
 
Hey, what'd ya expect from a old gay hippie in California?
 
Mike

*****************************************************

From: Speaker
Date: 6/10/97 6:31PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
And thus spake mesocyclone...
> Yes, I believe they were str8, but then, if they were, why'd they do it?
 
Because they're actors and they earn money byt playing parts?
Becasue they liked the parts? :-)
Might as well ask why gay actors play straight parts...
 
--

*****************************************************

From: Gavin
Date: 6/10/97 7:42PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
At 16:36 6/10/97 -0500, Matthew  wrote:
> I mean, everytime an actor is in a gay role, people question their
>personal sexuality. I think it makes some actors gay or straight
>fearful of playing those roles.
 
Hell. That's so true. That's one of the questions poor Laura Dern had to
put up with!
 
But fair's fair: gay actors have been playing straight roles since theatre
began! Ben Daniels, who is gay, plays Sandra's boyfriend Tony in the movie.
He has to kiss her and pretend to have sex with her. So what's so bad about
straight actors playing gay roles? You're bloody paid to play the role.
 
 
Gav.

*****************************************************

From: Todd
Date: 6/10/97 7:43PM
Subject: newsgroup
 
I just checked the news server with my IP and found the most wonderful
newsgroup: alt.movies.beautiful_thing! All right Daive!
 
Todd

*****************************************************

From: <Cabaret
Date: 6/10/97 7:50PM
Subject: Re: American BT
 
Well, I think an American version of BT is inevitable. We Yanks have this
bad habit of copying British entertainment. :) So, with that in mind, I've
been thinking of ideas for an American BT. I think a good title would be
Lovestruck. (I don't know why I like it, but it sorta just came to me.) :)
I was also thinking about music. My pereference would be a soundtrack by
the Indigo Girls. They seem to have the same passion and warmth in their
music that Mama Cass had in hers. As for the setting, that's where I would
change things quite a bit from BT. I was thinking about the two boys being a
bit further apart living-space-wise. I imagine one character as living with
his mother and maybe a sister in a kind of upper-middles-class apartment
complex in Manhattan, while the other boy lives with his father and perhaps a
brother or two in the South Bronx or East Queens. Instead of going to school
together, maybe they would work together at a restaurant or store or
something. Well, let me know what y'all think. :)
 
Mason

*****************************************************

From: <HeadDr
Date: 6/10/97 7:52PM
Subject: There's folks like me out there...
 
When I fell in love the first time, I was in college. I had never met anyone
that stirred feelings like that inside me. All that I could think about was
him and being with him. It was very difficult at the time because I was
comfortable with my feelings for him but he has very uncomfortable with his
towards me and would not admit to them for the longest. We went thru a phase
of experimentation and denial. (Such as Ste and Jamie) I remember vividly
then first time we ever went to a gay bar. We were astonished. None of the
people there were like us. We were far from the mold of the people that we
met. (Even today, I do not fit the mold of the gay crowd - or atleast I
think) To make a long story short, we are no longer together. Now when I
go out, all I see are folks looking for one night stands and alley way
blowjobs. I am no saint but I refuse to get caught up in this. Many of my
friends think that I am crazy but I WANT LOVE AGAIN!! And I will not accept
less!!!! Its been 2 years since I last time that I saw the only man that I
have loved but while watching BT, for 90 minutes, it brings back all those
memories that keeps me looking for it again!!1
 
Jim

*****************************************************

From: "Ross
Date: 6/10/97 8:44PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
I read last year in the early Fall in Details Magazine about BT. I have had
to see it ever since I read it. Then the other day when I was in "Moovies"
I saw it, recognized it, and about flamed myself out of the store.
Anyways... back to the point... when I read the article it said that Jamie
and Ste were both straight and chosen for that reason. There were several
other actors that tried out but Jamie and Ste were NOT gay and that's a big
reason THEY were choosen. Who better to choose for a love story were both
boys come out of the closet? They were interviewed said something like,
"When the kissing scenes came, we just kissed. We didn't rehearse it...
just to keep the meaning" My question is like everyone elses... they are
either gay or damn good actors... and need to make a sequal or go on a road
tour (especially in the states)!
Cheers to everyone!
Ross

*****************************************************

From: CARMEN
Date: 6/10/97 9:04PM
Subject: the 14th....
 
For all those who can't be in london on the 14th.... We are going to
organise a party of our own!
 
We are thinking of a sort of all day party on IRC...with people coming and
going as they are free, with a set time when we can interact with the
lucky dogs who *are* at the party...if they can get netaccess! we were
thinking about 7pm BST for the link up....If anyone who's going can offer
comments on the feasiblity of it..reply to the list, or on IRC before
Saturday
 
We're on DALnet, at #Beautiful_Thing And I'm queenZen
See you on the 14th! (or before...visitors are always welcome!)
tory

*****************************************************

From: Kenneth
Date: 6/10/97 9:18PM
Subject: Sound Track and Script
 
Just purchased both from B&N in Raleigh North Carolina. I will have to
wait on the movie to complete my library.
 
Thanks Jonathon for a great story...
 
Ken

*****************************************************

From: mesocyclone
Date: 6/10/97 9:20PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
Since the question was asked, I'll answer.
I figured out I was gay when I was about 10. I was at school, in line
to go to lunch, and one of the kids turned and swished her wrist at me and
asked "Are you gay?" I said no, but of course the light came on inside me
and I was like yeah, so? Didn't really bother me at the time, and it
still doesn't today. I sort of started coming out to other people at 13,
when I started sleeping around with other men. Whoops. Mistake. But it
got better. I really started coming out at the age of 19, when I started
going to a gay youth group. Now I tell people whenever it's appropriate
(I came out to 120+ people in my psych class last semester!).

*****************************************************

From: mesocyclone
Date: 6/10/97 9:25PM
Subject: Re: Jaime and Ste happily ever after?
 
> >the sunrise, and then everything fades to black, the implication being
> >that Jaime and Ste both died in the car.
>
> Just wondering: did you awaken as "everything faded to black"? If so, that
> signifies that although they died in your unconscious, they have been
> reborn in you.
>
> Mike
>
> Yes, I did wake up when everything faded to black. Maybe it has to do
with that old line about if you're dreaming, you have to wake up before
you hit bottom or you die. >:-)
Have they been reborn in me? It seems so to my roommate, who complains
that I am obsessed with this movie. Which isn't such a bad thing in my
book.....

*****************************************************

From: Michael
Date: 6/10/97 9:46PM
 
Subject: Re: In Love?
 
At 09:04 PM 06/09/97 -0700, you wrote:
> One question -- what does Leah say in the beginning when she sees
>Sandra for the first time? She says "_____ Sandra?" and Sandra shoots
>back with "Slag." What does she say? Just curious.
 
Reply:
 
Leah : "Oright, Sandra?"
 
..Sandra-finally looks at her, casting her an exocet glance.
 
SANDRA: "Slag!"
 
I recommend the screenplay, if it is ever back in stock...
 
 
 
michael

*****************************************************

From: Speaker
Date: 6/10/97 9:47PM
Subject: Re: An American BT
 
And thus spake mesocyclone...
> Okay, back to they've already made the American Version. I remember
> reading this in XY a few months ago. It was a gay teenage love story
> about two boys growing up in the rural country of Minnesota.
 
Please somebody figure out what movie this is! I'm
dying to find out. I'm going to try and do Web searches to see if I
can find out anything...
 
--

*****************************************************

From: "Ross
Date: 6/10/97 11:41PM
Subject: RE:Were They?
 
I read last year in the early Fall in Details Magazine about BT. I have had
to see it ever since I read it. Then the other day when I was in "Moovies"
I saw it, recognized it, and about flamed myself out of the store.
Anyways... back to the point... when I read the article it said that Jamie
and Ste were both straight and chosen for that reason. There were several
other actors that tried out but Jamie and Ste were NOT gay and that's a big
reason THEY were choosen. Who better to choose for a love story were both
boys come out of the closet? They were interviewed said something like,
"When the kissing scenes came, we just kissed. We didn't rehearse it...
just to keep the meaning" My question is like everyone elses... they are
either gay or damn good actors... and need to make a sequal or go on a road
tour (especially in the states)!
Cheers to everyone!
Ross
 
Ross

*****************************************************

From: "Kevin
Date: 6/10/97 11:49PM
Subject: Re: A truly beautiful thing
 
I think my favorite lines in BT are at the party when Ste and Jamie are
outside (blah, blah, blah)
Ste:"So are you...?"
 
Jamie:"Queer?"
 
Ste:"Gay?"
 
Jamie:"I'm very happy. I'm happy when I'm with you."
 
God, isn't that all ANYONE is looking for...someone to be happy with -
to share ourselves with - to talk to - to BE with...
 
I know I try to enjoy myself with my friends as much as possible when we
hang out...but when the nite is over, I go back to my life and they go
back to theirs and the "emptiness" inside just goes on and on...
 
But when you are with someone who makes you happy, even when you're away
from him (or her), nothing can intrude on the happiness inside - you
don't feel lonely anymore!!!
 
To me, that's why BT is so dear to my heart. It speaks of the human
condition (wow, that was profound...) :) - the need/want/desire to be
loved and the need/want/desire/ability to return that love!!!
 

**************************************************************

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