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From: "Kevin

Date: 6/10/97 11:53PM

Subject: Re: The ongoing debate

 

Go GARY!!!

__________

 

>

> Mike  wrote:

> >

> > At 1:36 AM -0400 6/10/97, Kevin wrote:

> > >> DAMN, aren't there ANY more Romantic Gay Guys???

> > >Sure - but we don't live next to each other like Ste & Jamie... :(

> >

>

> > Now what we need are more images of us having RELATIONSHIPS. My god, what

> > do you do when the boy-next-door that you've fallen madly in love with

> > turns out to be a jock while you're a movie queen? What happens when you

> > move in together only to discover he listens to grunge while you prefer

> > "The Sound of Music"? What're you going to do when he wants a monogamous

> > relationship but you want to, uh hum, play about?

> >

> Mike, it isn't just straight society that hasn't given us models for

> good gay relationships, _we_ haven't set up good models. Or at least

> we've tried to make everyone fit certain models.

> When I was first coming out, I realized that I was different even

> _within_ gay society. I don't like opera, I can't stand most Broadway

> show tunes. I despise tuxedos and "formal" occasions. I do like Barbra

> Streisand, but Judy Garland was before my time. I never, never

> understood drag. Still don't, although I'm fully supportive of people's

> transgender rights.

> I liked sports, and lettered in cross-country and ice hockey.

> Etc., etc. Yet all the models of gay "lifestyles" were much more

> confining than I wanted.

> If all a guy who comes out knows about is the "bar" scene, he may go

> years (if not forever) unaware that there are gay soccer leagues, gay

> hockey leagues (with international competition), gay rock bands, and gay

> guys who love to wear jeans, t-shirt, hiking boots and love to go

> skateboarding.

> Sure, Jamie knows the entire cast of "Sound of Music," but he's also not

> the stereotypical "showtune queen." Ste is a "jock," but not the

> mindless stereotype either. They are both boys - real, but different,

> boys. And that is part of the appeal of BT for me.

>

> Gary

>

> --

*****************************************************

From: "Kevin

Date: 6/11/97 12:04AM

Subject: Re: Were They?

 

 

> PS: this could be an interesting thread. When did you (anyone on the list

> who is intrested in shareing) first realize you were gay? How did you feel

> when you had this realization?

>

> Mike

Hmm...I like Jamie's way of stating the obvious. (see previous e-mail

note) - Are you? Queer? Gay? I'm very happy. I'm happy when I'm with

you....

I say this as a preface that I never considered myself "gay" - it was a

label (with a very NEGATIVE connotation to boot) - I knew I liked guys

(since I was 12) I loved the way they looked, "felt" (though didn't have

my first experience 'til I was 22), thought, etc. But I liked girls,

too. Just not the same way - a friend of mine says I can appreciate the

beauty of a woman the way a straight man can!?! ;) Who knew??? I don't

know if I'll end up married to a guy or a girl - but I know I can be

happy with either - as long as I am loved for who I am

*****************************************************

Date: 6/11/97 12:10AM

Subject: Re: Were They?

 

wrote:

>

> You know, there are so many questions about them being gay!

_________________________________________

On the other hand...what does it matter if they are - they've got each

other right??? ;) But seriously, just knowing that these two guys can

convince us that they are gay and in love is no small feat!!! I am truly

impressed with their talent - God I wish I lived in England now - I'd be

signing up at the school they go to in nothing flat!!!

*****************************************************

From: Speaker

Date: 6/11/97 12:21AM

Subject: sjburges

 

Fellow Beautiful-Thing mailing list members,

 

Just called Blockbuster's 800 number (800-800-6767) to see

if any more stores in my area are carrying Beautiful Thing. When I

spoke to the operator and told her the movie I was looking for she said

they had been getting a lot of calls about that movie.

Looks like the word is is spreading.

 

--

*****************************************************

From: "Kevin

Date: 6/11/97 12:22AM

Subject: Re: There's folks like me out there...

 

wrote:

>

> When I fell in love the first time, I was in college. I had never met anyone

> that stirred feelings like that inside me. All that I could think about was

> him and being with him. It was very difficult at the time because I was

> comfortable with my feelings for him but he has very uncomfortable with his

> towards me and would not admit to them for the longest. We went thru a phase

> of experimentation and denial. (Such as Ste and Jamie) I remember vividly

> then first time we ever went to a gay bar. We were astonished. None of the

> people there were like us. We were far from the mold of the people that we

> met. (Even today, I do not fit the mold of the gay crowd - or atleast I

> think) To make a long story short, we are no longer together. Now when I

> go out, all I see are folks looking for one night stands and alley way

> blowjobs. I am no saint but I refuse to get caught up in this. Many of my

> friends think that I am crazy but I WANT LOVE AGAIN!! And I will not accept

> less!!!! Its been 2 years since I last time that I saw the only man that I

> have loved but while watching BT, for 90 minutes, it brings back all those

> memories that keeps me looking for it again!!1

>

> Jim

___________________

God, Jim, you just told the story of my best friend and I (almost) - I

met him in college - fell head over heals in love with him (though he is

still insecure with his feelings about men) - in fact my first kiss was

just like Ste and Jamie's (sigh) - we are still good friends - he lives

in Mississippi while I live in CT - we talk once every three to six

months or so - and usually about religion (it was a Christian College we

went to) :o - well, making a long story short (too late) when he

couldn't return my feelings, I vowed never to get hurt again and have

NEVER loved anyone since (that was over 6 years ago) - I have talked

with my mom (who is a pastor) about my being gay - and find I am SOOO

uncomfortable with coming out to ANYONE (I recently moved to CT and

don't know too many people - and I don't have time to get to the city

(NY)) - yet, BT (and these e-mails) also gave me hope that it is

possible to find someone to love - if I am willing to open my heart

again.

Well, just wanted to share that with the gang...

Thanks for listening

Kev

*****************************************************

From: "Kevin

Date: 6/11/97 12:26AM

Subject: Re: newsgroup

 

> I just checked the news server with my IP and found the most wonderful

> newsgroup: alt.movies.beautiful_thing! All right Daive!

______________________

Hey that's not fair...my IP doesn't have that newsgroup!!! :(

*****************************************************

From: "Kevin

Date: 6/11/97 12:35AM

Subject: Re: Real love, or : I *love* stirring up debate :-)

 

wrote:

>

> Well, now I've got some of you focused on one of the main themes of the movie,

it's good to see everyone pitching in and thinking about it.

>

> My previous comment stems from my deep consideration of

what was going on before we first met Jamie and Ste, and what

could happen after we leave them. I've been focusing on the latter

event recently, in order to produce for my own practice, pleasure, and

entertainment, a screenplay that revisits the characters three years on.

>

> My thoughts are that if they are still together at the end of my examination

of their life at age 19, then the love they have is that which binds two people

together for life - what I've always called True Love, and differentiated

from any other kind. This was my motivation for suggesting they

weren't 'in love' at the time we left them in B.T.

>

> During B.T. I feel they were in the first throws of romance, this being

apparently the first time either of the boys had been in a relationship,

not having kissed girls before (lucky them!). I suggest that Jamie's

feelings are initially motivated by infatuation, until Ste responds to his approaches.

>

> Thereafter I believe they were falling toward true love, but at that time

were experiencing the more lustful variety - combined with 'first-love'

as it is affectionately called here.

>

> Their feelings of tenderness to each other are plain to see and read,

and yes, to tuck you romantic dreamers out there back into bed, I do

believe that 'in the end' they live happily ever after. In fact, the more

I write the more I'm convinced of it.

>

> So the fairy tale is safe, at least for me. In fact if anything, I feel right

now that revisiting them three years on is the best thing I could have done for

myself, because it tells me that despite all the attempts by the 'scene' to

spoil their idyllic outlook, which would inevitably follow on once they

started going to gay bars, pubs, and clubs, Jamie and Ste would realise

that what the two of them have going is so precious that nothing can destroy it.

>

> Revisiting B.T. constantly runs the risk of making the subject stale

for me, probably more so because I'm living and breathing it day in,

day out. Getting a chance to see that even after B.T. the same dream,

the same fairy tale can still happen, has reinvigorated me tremendously.

>

> Regards, Davie

_______________________________

well, I for one am a big romantic and would love to say that Jamie and

Ste live happily ever after...but from what I've been reading (and my

own personal experience) I don't see a happy ending for them. My life

had many similarities to Jamie and Ste - but in the end (more like

_Maurice_ - good English gay movie starring Hugh Grant!!!) I had to go

on and deal with my feelings for someone who needed to be loved more

than he wanted to love me (or at least more than he wanted to be gay) -

sorry to rain on everyone's parade...but I see Ste could go either way

(if you'll pardon the expression) - he could end up realizing that he

does truly love Jamie (or at least loves men in general) and therefor

doesn't mind opening up to the world (I guess the last scene does give

that impression) or he could wake up tomorrow with the realization that

the guy he loves - who makes it ok for him to be gay - is no longer

right next door - but "dear ol' daddy" and "big brother" are...and watch

Ste dry up like a Raisin in the Sun (another good movie - but not gay)

;) - I just hope that you can come out with a sequel, 'cuz I'd like to

see what does actually happen to the two of them at the end of the

summer - a few years down the line - and at the end of their lives!?!

(How's that for morbid???) - Sorry! :S

*****************************************************

From: <Taiyed

Date: 6/11/97 1:30AM

Subject: website help

 

Hello. If anyone here has kept up with Scott's and Glen's televison roles,

could you please email me. Basically I'm looking for a brief summary of the

characters they played. Anything on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Also, I wanted to add a section where people could share their similar Jamie

& Ste experiences. Email me if you would like to contribute to this.

 

thank you,

Taiyed

*****************************************************

From: "Justin

Date: 6/11/97 1:32AM

Subject: Re: American BT

 

Sounds interesting. Think it could be off to a good start. Of course, the

trailer park version is also interesting... I don't know. So many

options... What I don't understand is _WHY_ the American producers would

try to reproduce such a great movie. Would it ruin the reputation that BT

already has?

 

Justin

 

At 07:50 PM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Well, I think an American version of BT is inevitable. We Yanks have this

>bad habit of copying British entertainment. :) So, with that in mind, I've

>been thinking of ideas for an American BT. I think a good title would be

>Lovestruck. (I don't know why I like it, but it sorta just came to me.) :)

> I was also thinking about music. My pereference would be a soundtrack by

>the Indigo Girls. They seem to have the same passion and warmth in their

>music that Mama Cass had in hers. As for the setting, that's where I would

>change things quite a bit from BT. I was thinking about the two boys being a

>bit further apart living-space-wise. I imagine one character as living with

>his mother and maybe a sister in a kind of upper-middles-class apartment

>complex in Manhattan, while the other boy lives with his father and perhaps a

>brother or two in the South Bronx or East Queens. Instead of going to school

>together, maybe they would work together at a restaurant or store or

>something. Well, let me know what y'all think. :)

>

>Mason

>

*****************************************************

From: Jeff

Date: 6/11/97 1:57AM

Subject: Re: American BT

 

> options... What I don't understand is _WHY_ the American producers would

> try to reproduce such a great movie. Would it ruin the reputation that

BT

> already has?

>

> Justin

 

 

Look at Birdcage, Justin. The Americanized "La Cage," which I really

didn't like. But see how it attracted a wide audience and made lots of

money... and set the images of gays back 10 years IMHO. Maybe an

Americanized BT would be good. If done right, of course.

*****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/11/97 2:02AM

Subject: Coming Out in style...

 

My two-pennies worth...

 

At university last year, in my Industrial Applications class, I came out by

writing an article for the class to review on censorship and freedom on the Internet.

 

I focused on the threat to freedom of the round of news-group

witch-hunting that was going on because of the German Compuserve case, etc.

 

I signed off with the line..

 

"David is Managing Director of Digiville, an Internet ISP,

a member of the gay community online, and a supporter of freedom of expression for all"

 

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/11/97 2:13AM

Subject: Glen and Scott and THE kiss...

 

Something else you might like to know...

 

In preparation for the kiss, Glen and Scott had a few shots of whiskey,

then, as Glen put it "we just went for it" .

 

*hick*

 

Davie

*****************************************************

From: mesocyclone

Date: 6/11/97 3:02AM

Subject: Re: Were They?

 

Actors playing parts: gay playing str8, str8 playing gay. It's just

interesting to consider. Well, gays play str8 all the time, it's part of

"passing". But why str8 playing gay? Matthew Broderick did it in Torch

Song Trilogy. And these two boys. Let's contemplate this for a moment.

Society has stigmatized being gay. It can be a dangerous thing. So play

it on film? It could ruin your career, cost you fans, etc, etc. And

you'd have to be pretty okay with it to play the part, right? I mean, if

you were uncomfortable with it, as Will Smith when he was filming Six

Degrees of Separation, you'd have a really hard time wrapping your arms

around another guy and sucking his tonsils out on film for the world to

see, don't you think? So either you're okay with it, or you're just a

damn good actor. I'm babbling. Bye.

*****************************************************

From: mesocyclone

Date: 6/11/97 3:11AM

Subject: Re: American BT

 

Yeah, I think an Americanized version would ruin BT. Look at what we

did with La Femme Nikita......

*****************************************************

From: Adam

Date: 6/11/97 4:21AM

Subject: Gay awakening

 

Kevin  wrote:

 

>:

>

> > PS: this could be an interesting thread. When did you (anyone on

> the list

> > who is intrested in shareing) first realize you were gay? How did

> you feel

> > when you had this realization?

> >

 

Hmmmmmmm this is an interesting topic. The first Time I realized I was

gay.... Must of been in Jr. High, I can't really remeber a specifc time

but I remember being fascinated with men, but afraid at the same time.

As a result I didn't have many guys friends, and the ones I did have

well, they sorta just drifted away. All through out high school i

relaized I was attracted to men, but thought that i was also attracted

to women, but for some reason I could never make real my feelings for

women. About three months ago along with help from friends, I came to

the realization that I was not bi, but full blown gay. It was hard to

accept, becuase all my plans to have a family wife etc...you know the

american dream, were ruined. But now I realize that I can have a

beautiful thing without a woman by my side... So all in all it was

pretty recent that I came to a concience descision. Well my two bits or

cents......

Adam:)

--

Adam

*****************************************************

From: Adam

Date: 6/11/97 4:22AM

Subject: Re: A truly beautiful thing

 

Kevin wrote:

 

> I think my favorite lines in BT are at the party when Ste and Jamie

> are

> outside (blah, blah, blah)

> Ste:"So are you...?"

>

> Jamie:"Queer?"

>

> Ste:"Gay?"

>

> Jamie:"I'm very happy. I'm happy when I'm with you."

>

> God, isn't that all ANYONE is looking for...someone to be happy with

> -

> to share ourselves with - to talk to - to BE with...

>

> I know I try to enjoy myself with my friends as much as possible

> when we

> hang out...but when the nite is over, I go back to my life and they

> go

> back to theirs and the "emptiness" inside just goes on and on...

>

> But when you are with someone who makes you happy, even when you're

> away

> from him (or her), nothing can intrude on the happiness inside - you

>

> don't feel lonely anymore!!!

>

> To me, that's why BT is so dear to my heart. It speaks of the human

> condition (wow, that was profound...) :) - the need/want/desire to

> be

> loved and the need/want/desire/ability to return that

 

I Love that line too!!!!!!!!1

Adam

*****************************************************

From: Gavin

Date: 6/11/97 4:38AM

Subject: Re: A truly beautiful thing

 

At 23:49 6/10/97 -0400, Kevin wrote:

>God, isn't that all ANYONE is looking for...someone to be happy with -

>to share ourselves with - to talk to - to BE with...

 

Too bloody right!

 

As Jay will testify: I was moaning on about this last night on IRC! Making

people feel all awkward, I was. But a funny thing about this group? It's

not quite like a group of divorcees having a go at Men: there is a

potential for people in the group to get together? Love to blossom? :->

 

So many lonely hearts...

 

 

Gav.

*****************************************************

From: Mike

Date: 6/11/97 5:08AM

Subject: Re: An American BT

 

At 8:47 PM -0500 6/10/97, Speaker wrote:

>And thus spake mesocyclone...

>> Okay, back to they've already made the American Version. I remember

>> reading this in XY a few months ago. It was a gay teenage love story

>> about two boys growing up in the rural country of Minnesota.

>

> Please somebody figure out what movie this is! I'm

>dying to find out. I'm going to try and do Web searches to see if I

>can find out anything...

>

 

I saw the film and I'm racking my brain right now for the title but can't

think of it. A friend of mine knows, so I'll email him and try to get the

title to you. Actually I didn't like the film very much. No production

value what so ever, the acting wasn't good and the screen play basically

sucked. Well, actually it would have been better had it sucked. ;->

 

There were so many weird things in the plot, it would be difficult to sum

it up for you. Basically (but this is really pruning it) two teenage boys

fall in love. One comes on to the other and the second freaks out. The

first, embarassed and heart broken, runs away from home to live in the big

city. He sends letters to his friend telling him that if he ever gets tired

of living at home, he'd love for him to run away and join him. Eventually

the second boy also runs away (with some help from a slightly older German

guy who drinks a lot). He meets up with the first who is now a prostitute.

The second becomes a prostitute as well but they are in love so it doesn't

matter as much. Things go down hill from there. Go figure.

 

True, this is an American film (although much of the dialogue is in

German), but BT it is NOT.

 

Mike

*****************************************************

From: Mike

Date: 6/11/97 5:21AM

Subject: Re: A truly beautiful thing

 

At 11:49 PM -0400 6/10/97, Kevin  wrote:

 

>God, isn't that all ANYONE is looking for...someone to be happy with -

>to share ourselves with - to talk to - to BE with...

 

Yes. I think so.

 

>I know I try to enjoy myself with my friends as much as possible when we

>hang out...but when the nite is over, I go back to my life and they go

>back to theirs and the "emptiness" inside just goes on and on...

 

Yep. Lonlyness. You need love and companionship. That's what David (my

lover) and I did for one another before he died in February. Our

relationship wasn't all roses, believe me, but we both loved the other. I

miss talking with him, lying in bed with my arms wrapped around him, him

giving me a little kiss on the top of my bald head as I work at my

computer.

 

>But when you are with someone who makes you happy, even when you're away

>from him (or her), nothing can intrude on the happiness inside - you

>don't feel lonely anymore!!!

 

Yeah. I'd almost forgotten what the lonesomeness felt like. Now I'm back in

it a bit. Mourning and all that. But, hey, I'm not going to stay stuck in

this pain, either. I acknowledge it and value it for what it is. But I've

already started to date -- a little. Very cautious about it. I'm in no

hurry. In my mind's eye, David is very close by. I talk with him about it

and he's okay with it. He WANTS me to be happy, that I know.

 

>To me, that's why BT is so dear to my heart. It speaks of the human

>condition (wow, that was profound...) :) - the need/want/desire to be

>loved and the need/want/desire/ability to return that love!!!

 

Hey, no problem being profound. That's great that you can see this. It is

such a gift to yourself and to us to say these things. That's why this LIST

is so important. We have the opportunity here to break through the lies, to

open up that Beautiful Thing that we are inside and let it shine. You'll

see. It'll transform our lives if we let it.

 

 

Mike

*****************************************************

From: Mike

Date: 6/11/97 5:54AM

Subject: To Gary and the list

 

Gary,

 

I can't seem to relocate your original post to quote, but you are

absolutely right: it isn't just straight society that gives us negative

self-imaging. Just recently saw the film "Love, Valour, Compassion" which

is about gay men and was a play written by a gay man with the best of

intentions. I didn't see the play but I've been told by friends who have

that it was more powerful than the film. Most of my friends like the film

but I had mixed feelings about it. There were a couple very good things.

Like in the first scenes where this very attractive man, Ramone, is

watching this blind man, Bobby, as he feels the bark of a tree. It was very

well done and quite evocative.

 

But I had a hard time relating to a lot of the characters in the film. At

moments I found them interesting and enjoyable; then again they really

irked me something fierce. I suppose this means it's a good movie as this

is how I feel about many of my friends in real life! But I'm not sure.

Where does it begin, the chicken or the egg? Are gay men the way they are

(and there are many different varieties) because we've adopted the roll

models we've been given -- or are we actually these characatures in essence?

 

The same question can be asked of straight people, by the way. Are they the

way they are because that IS they way they truly are, or are they just

being that way because they are playing the rolls they've been given to

play?

 

This relates to another issue that is being spoken about, how many of us

feel alienated by our own "community" of gay men and women. And, to the

extent that we do feel this alienation, how much of it is due to our own

internalized homophobia and how much of it is just plane dislike for the

games some of us play?

 

These are issues I've been thinking about and sorting out all my life. I

can tell you this: I know literally HUNDREDS of gay men and what surprises

me is their utter diversity. I can tell you without doubt, there is no such

thing as a typical gay man. I know young ones, old ones, cute ones, plane

ones, big ones, little ones, straight acting and bent acting -- everything

from leather to Queen Ann's lace, with some Prince Alberts thrown in just

for kicks. The ONLY thing they ALL have in common is their "sexual

orientation" -- and there's a lot of diversity even within that.

 

So, who ARE we, anyway?

 

Mike

*****************************************************

From: Gavin

Date: 6/11/97 7:29AM

Subject: News group

 

Urrrkkkk....

 

I got a reply from my university newsmaster. Correct me if I'm wrong? Was

it <alt.movies.beautiful_thing>? He tells me that:

 

1. No newsgroup control message has been received.

2. Even if one was received, it would have been rejected, because

a. One component is overlong (beautiful_thing)

--I haven't a clue what the legal limit is.

b. Underscore characters are not allowed.

 

Anyway, none of the newservers which feed news to us carry it: so either

they've rejected the name as illegal too, or...?

 

He claims that this is problem with a lot of attempts at creating alt.*

newsgroups.

 

 

Gav.

*****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/11/97 8:14AM

 

Subject: News group and IRC DALnet channel

 

The name is alt.movies.beautiful-thing

 

Tell your admin to upgrade their outdated news

server if it can't handle current NNTP protocols and formats!!

 

DALnet:

 

Before we get it too established, can we alter the channel name please?

 

switch the underscore for a hypen? so instead of #Beautiful_Thing,

it is #Beautiful-Thing ?

 

It would be logical. I know, in reality that means a new channel

and you will find I've created one already - so can we start using

it so the current can fade away?

 

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: David

Date: 6/11/97 8:31AM

Subject: Welcome to the group

 

The group was officially created at 01:32:16 on 9th June 1997.

 

Please read the rest of this article carefully, and switch to using

the group for discussions as soon as possible.

 

From today I will post my list articles to both, which means switching

to Forte Agent to write the combined articles/emails - I'll have to

forward an email copy to myself here in MS Internet Mail - confusing

huh?

 

I've been looking for it at Demon ever since and not seen it. It

transpired this is because Agent, the newsreader I'm using, was not

picking it up when I did "Get New Groups".

 

After an email from the newsmaster, I Refreshed the entire news-group

list and there it was.

 

For those of you unable to find it on your server, you might like to

try using pubnews.demon.co.uk. This is a public service port into the

Demon newsbase. Therefore it might be difficult to get a connection at

some times.

 

Demon have a policy of carrying EVERY news-group in existence, along

with EVERY article (including the binaries groups with attached

files). For alt.binaries.* Demon are currently commited to keeping the

last two weeks worth of articles in their newsbase.

 

The base receives and additional 4GB - yes Gigabytes - of news a WEEK,

and they are the premier uncensored newsfeed in the UK, if not the

world.

 

Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: Todd

Date: 6/11/97 9:03AM

Subject: Re: To Gary and the list

 

Mike,

You've hit on something I've been wondering myself for a long time. I

didn't come out till I was almost 27, and boy have I gotten an education

these last 2 years. One thing I think is true is that straight people in

our society are more free to be whatever they want to be. We on the other

hand have to be more cautious in how we present ourselves so we don't get

alienated or worse. That too changes with many factors I won't go into.

I scare my gay friends sometimes with some of my 'straight' interests.

Whether that is a product of coming out late or what society said I should

be interested in, I'll never know. What counts is that I know who "I" am

now and that is what counts. Part of my coming out process was the

realization that there will always be people that don't like me and I can

not please them all, so why try. I try to be just who I am. Like Jamie

says "It don't matter what I think."

 

Just more of the ramblings from:

Todd

On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Mike  wrote:

 

> Gary,

>

> I can't seem to relocate your original post to quote, but you are

> absolutely right: it isn't just straight society that gives us negative

> self-imaging. Just recently saw the film "Love, Valour, Compassion" which

> is about gay men and was a play written by a gay man with the best of

> intentions. I didn't see the play but I've been told by friends who have

> that it was more powerful than the film. Most of my friends like the film

> but I had mixed feelings about it. There were a couple very good things.

> Like in the first scenes where this very attractive man, Ramone, is

> watching this blind man, Bobby, as he feels the bark of a tree. It was very

> well done and quite evocative.

>

> But I had a hard time relating to a lot of the characters in the film. At

> moments I found them interesting and enjoyable; then again they really

> irked me something fierce. I suppose this means it's a good movie as this

> is how I feel about many of my friends in real life! But I'm not sure.

> Where does it begin, the chicken or the egg? Are gay men the way they are

> (and there are many different varieties) because we've adopted the roll

> models we've been given -- or are we actually these characatures in essence?

>

> The same question can be asked of straight people, by the way. Are they the

> way they are because that IS they way they truly are, or are they just

> being that way because they are playing the rolls they've been given to

> play?

>

> This relates to another issue that is being spoken about, how many of us

> feel alienated by our own "community" of gay men and women. And, to the

> extent that we do feel this alienation, how much of it is due to our own

> internalized homophobia and how much of it is just plane dislike for the

> games some of us play?

>

> These are issues I've been thinking about and sorting out all my life. I

> can tell you this: I know literally HUNDREDS of gay men and what surprises

> me is their utter diversity. I can tell you without doubt, there is no such

> thing as a typical gay man. I know young ones, old ones, cute ones, plane

> ones, big ones, little ones, straight acting and bent acting -- everything

> from leather to Queen Ann's lace, with some Prince Alberts thrown in just

> for kicks. The ONLY thing they ALL have in common is their "sexual

> orientation" -- and there's a lot of diversity even within that.

>

> So, who ARE we, anyway?

>

> Mike

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