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Email Archive Page 23

 
From: Charles
Date: 6/11/97 9:59AM
Subject: Re: Welcome to the group
 
Hi David,
First, I wanted to thank you for your hard work on the web site. Its
GREAT!
 
Also, I would love to get the beautiful thing newsfeed, but, its not here
(as of yet) and I can't
seem to resolve the IP address for pubnews.demon.co.uk. Could you email me
the
IP address of the news server? Thanks!
 
Charlie

*****************************************************

From: Shaun
Date: 6/11/97 10:06AM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
Hi all :o)
As the hopeful actor on this list, I guess I'll try to field this one. If
you really love acting, and you truly believe in the story (meaning, you
like it because it has integrity) there is NOTHING you will not do for the
part. With true actors (which I believe Scott and Glen to be) you learn to
seperate your roles from your real life, and you learn that you can become
anyone. On that screen, Jamie and Ste were gay. Glen and Scott are not.
They just did a damn fine performance.
 
See ya
 
Shaun
 
 
At 02:31 PM 6/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
> Yes, I believe they were str8, but then, if they were, why'd they do it?
>

*****************************************************

From: Shaun <j
Date: 6/11/97 10:13AM
Subject: Coming Out (was Re: Were They?)
 
I guess since I'm writing e-mail, I'll add to the group. (I love reading,
but I'm always to lazy to write <grin> I came back from a three day
vacation and found over 150 msgs from the BT group in my box)
 
I realized I was gay when I was 18. I had tried for years to pretend that
I wasn't, but one week, I was writing a play, and one of the characters was
gay. When I finished, I sat down and read it. It was like this horrid
realization. I was gay. I had denied it for my whole adolescent life, and
now as I was about to graduate high school, I was unable to hide it (from
myself at least) any longer. I tried to kill myself, but failed. then I
told my best friend, and she helped me. It was a year before I was finally
completely out to everyone. I looked at those years of my life as a lie,
and now I'm just going about trying to find out who I really am. The
person everyone knew didn't really exist. That's why I loved to act. I
did it on and off stage.
 
see ya
 
Shaun

*****************************************************

From: JOE
Date: 6/11/97 10:40AM
Subject: Re: newsgroup
 
Todd  wrote:
>
> I just checked the news server with my IP and found the most wonderful
> newsgroup: alt.movies.beautiful_thing! All right Daive!
>
> Todd
 
It shows up also (with no articles yet) on Prodigy Internet's news
server, so I'm happy. <G>
 
Gary

*****************************************************

From: "Peter
Date: 6/11/97 10:59AM
Subject: RE: Beautiful Members
 
Can I send a jpeg?
peter
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 12:54 PM
> Subject: Beautiful Members
>
> 'Ello All!
>
> Well I finally got the computer to cooperate with me. On the DalNet
> Channel #Beautiful_Thing, I am doing a Member Picture Server thing. If
> you would like to offer your picture to everyone who visits the
> channel, please send me your photo, and I will get it in there. Please
> include your regular nickname, as it will be used to access the
> picture. As an example, my photo is in there and you would simply type
> BTMPS Jason27, that will generate a send of my photo to you. If you
> have any questions, I will be glad to answer them, Please Email me.
>
> Thanks, Jason
> -----------------------------------

*****************************************************

From: Chainarong
Date: 6/11/97 11:10AM
Subject: Hi all
 
Hi all
I'm not sure you guys would like to hear this. I went to a movie screening
last week (part of the New York Lesbian and Gay Film Festival). I overheard a
guy talking about BT. He said:
I didn't like BT. I saw no point of the movie. The first 45 min dealing with
abusive behavior, the last part they just ran around in the forest. And
PA-LEASE, Mama Cass. UGH!! I totally couldn't stand that kind of British
accent. Blah Blah Blah.
 
Please someone go out and kill this guy.
 
Neil

*****************************************************

From: Kenneth
Date: 6/11/97 11:29AM
Subject: Re: newsgroup
 
GO TO DEJA NEWS AND CHECK AND THERE...kEN

*****************************************************

From: Kenneth
Date: 6/11/97 11:35AM
Subject: Re: American BT
 
Hey, lets take a look at the religious right <wrong> in this country. Do
you think they wouldn't want to try to interfer? I think they will, to
there own demise <hee, hee>
 
They will be on Crossfire <poorly watched show> trying to get Congress to
enact a stupid statute.
 
Could be interesting seeing the fall out. Jonathon Harvey, I hope you have
more control over the American Production as you had in the British
MASTERPIECE.
 
Bravo...
 
----------
> From: Jeff
> Subject: Re: American BT
> Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 1:57 AM
>
> > options... What I don't understand is _WHY_ the American producers
would
> > try to reproduce such a great movie. Would it ruin the reputation that
> BT
> > already has?
> >
> > Justin
>
>
> Look at Birdcage, Justin. The Americanized "La Cage," which I really
> didn't like. But see how it attracted a wide audience and made lots of
> money... and set the images of gays back 10 years IMHO. Maybe an
> Americanized BT would be good. If done right, of course.

*****************************************************

From: David
Date: 6/11/97 11:36AM
Subject: Re: newsgroup... It shows up also (with no articles yet) on...
 
GUYS!! The fact that it shows up but you don't see articles means your news-admin
is NOT taking a feed for it - the group name will be there but no articles.
There are about 6 articles in the group at this time.
 
ASK for it to be added to the feed!!!
 
Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: David
Date: 6/11/97 11:38AM
Subject: Re: Beautiful Members.. Can I send a jpeg?
 
NOOOOO!
Please DO NOT send email attached photo's to the list!!!
 
Send them directly to Jason. jmruddy@gte.net
 
Regards, Davie

*****************************************************

From: JOE
Date: 6/11/97 11:44AM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
Gavin  wrote:
>
> At 16:36 6/10/97 -0500, Matthew wrote:
> > I mean, everytime an actor is in a gay role, people question their
> >personal sexuality. I think it makes some actors gay or straight
> >fearful of playing those roles.
>
> Hell. That's so true. That's one of the questions poor Laura Dern had to
> put up with!
>
> But fair's fair: gay actors have been playing straight roles since theatre
> began! Ben Daniels, who is gay, plays Sandra's boyfriend Tony in the movie.
> He has to kiss her and pretend to have sex with her. So what's so bad about
> straight actors playing gay roles? You're bloody paid to play the role.
>
> Gav.
>
It's also a cultural issue. American actors have much more problem with
this than probably British or European actors.
Hugh Grant has played gay roles at least twice, but is best known in the
US for two things: "Four Weddings and a Funeral" and his "incident" with
the prostitute in L.A. :)
Matthew Broderick has been dogged with gay rumors ever since "Torch Song
Trilogy." I remember some entertainment magazines even stressing that
his kissing a guy in that film was his "first onscreen kiss," as if that
somehow marked him for life.
 
Gary

*****************************************************

From: JOE
Date: 6/11/97 11:54AM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
Ross  wrote:
>
My question is like everyone elses... they are
> either gay or damn good actors... and need to make a sequal or go on a road
> tour (especially in the states)!
> Cheers to everyone!
> Ross
>
They are, IMHO, damn good actors.
My academic dept. includes theatre and I've been involved in it, both
directing and acting.
Last year there was an evening of student one-act plays and one play
involved a woman discovering that her fiance had once had a gay lover.
The ex-lover was played by a student who _is_ gay and he said it was
difficult for him to do the role "naturally" and not embellish it.
On the other hand, the fiance was played by a student who is
_notoriously_ heterosexual, but also an excellent and committed actor.
To most folks, he did the far superior job of demonstrating the angst
and conflict the character was going through than did the gay actor.
I have played parts that are not like me and I've done them well. Parts
that were like me didn't seem enough like "acting" to be done that
well. I've played a Cockney safecracker, a member of the Emperor's
court in Mozart's time, I've played a catcher for the New York Yankees
baseball team and all have gone well.
But I also played, Dennis, the bisexual undertaker's assistant in the
Joe Orton play, "Loot." Dennis' boyfriend in the play is exclusively
gay and was played by a gay actor. Allan (who played my boyfriend) and
I had to really work to make our scenes together seem real. It was
helped by the fact that Orton was gay, so his lines were fairly natural
for us. Nonetheless, I found it easier to play a heterosexual Cockney
safecracker. <G>
Years later, I directed "Loot" and the two boys were played by committed
heterosexuals and they did a wonderful, evocative job with the roles.
On the other hand, I know of at least two productions of "Boys in the
Band" in which most of the allegedly straight cast members ended up
coming out by the end of the play's run. :)
 
Gary

*****************************************************

From: Todd
Date: 6/11/97 12:32PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
The same can be said for the movie Jeffrey. Both Steven Weber and Michael
Weis were dogged by questions of sexuality and not only that, the
gay/lesbian activists in the US are harsh, to say the least. I dare say
they would have lots of negative things to say about Beautiful Thing even
though it was a movie about love and not about being gay.
 
Todd
 
On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, JOE wrote:
 
> Gavin  wrote:
> >
> > At 16:36 6/10/97 -0500, Matthew  wrote:
> > > I mean, everytime an actor is in a gay role, people question their
> > >personal sexuality. I think it makes some actors gay or straight
> > >fearful of playing those roles.
> >
> > Hell. That's so true. That's one of the questions poor Laura Dern had to
> > put up with!
> >
> > But fair's fair: gay actors have been playing straight roles since theatre
> > began! Ben Daniels, who is gay, plays Sandra's boyfriend Tony in the movie.
> > He has to kiss her and pretend to have sex with her. So what's so bad about
> > straight actors playing gay roles? You're bloody paid to play the role.
> >
> > Gav.
> >
> It's also a cultural issue. American actors have much more problem with
> this than probably British or European actors.
> Hugh Grant has played gay roles at least twice, but is best known in the
> US for two things: "Four Weddings and a Funeral" and his "incident" with
> the prostitute in L.A. :)
> Matthew Broderick has been dogged with gay rumors ever since "Torch Song
> Trilogy." I remember some entertainment magazines even stressing that
> his kissing a guy in that film was his "first onscreen kiss," as if that
> somehow marked him for life.
>
> Gary
>

*****************************************************

From: "Peter
Date: 6/11/97 12:54PM
Subject: RE: Were They?
 
Your right about American culture...It is a much bigger deal here with
the gay/straight actor thing. Hollywood is quite provincial actually..so
ridiculous eh?
Peter
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JOE
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Were They?
>
> Gavin  wrote:
> >
> > At 16:36 6/10/97 -0500, Matthew  wrote:
> > > I mean, everytime an actor is in a gay role, people question
> their
> > >personal sexuality. I think it makes some actors gay or straight
> > >fearful of playing those roles.
> >
> > Hell. That's so true. That's one of the questions poor Laura Dern
> had to
> > put up with!
> >
> > But fair's fair: gay actors have been playing straight roles since
> theatre
> > began! Ben Daniels, who is gay, plays Sandra's boyfriend Tony in
> the movie.
> > He has to kiss her and pretend to have sex with her. So what's so
> bad about
> > straight actors playing gay roles? You're bloody paid to play the
> role.
> >
> > Gav.
> >
> It's also a cultural issue. American actors have much more problem
> with
> this than probably British or European actors.
> Hugh Grant has played gay roles at least twice, but is best known in
> the
> US for two things: "Four Weddings and a Funeral" and his "incident"
> with
> the prostitute in L.A. :)
> Matthew Broderick has been dogged with gay rumors ever since "Torch
> Song
> Trilogy." I remember some entertainment magazines even stressing that
> his kissing a guy in that film was his "first onscreen kiss," as if
> that
> somehow marked him for life.
>
> Gary

*****************************************************

From: "Kevin
Date: 6/11/97 1:42PM
Subject: Re: To Gary and the list
 
>
> Gary,
>
> I can't seem to relocate your original post to quote, but you are
> absolutely right: it isn't just straight society that gives us negative
> self-imaging. Just recently saw the film "Love, Valour, Compassion" which
> is about gay men and was a play written by a gay man with the best of
> intentions. I didn't see the play but I've been told by friends who have
> that it was more powerful than the film. Most of my friends like the film
> but I had mixed feelings about it. There were a couple very good things.
> Like in the first scenes where this very attractive man, Ramone, is
> watching this blind man, Bobby, as he feels the bark of a tree. It was very
> well done and quite evocative.
>
> But I had a hard time relating to a lot of the characters in the film. At
> moments I found them interesting and enjoyable; then again they really
> irked me something fierce. I suppose this means it's a good movie as this
> is how I feel about many of my friends in real life! But I'm not sure.
> Where does it begin, the chicken or the egg? Are gay men the way they are
> (and there are many different varieties) because we've adopted the roll
> models we've been given -- or are we actually these characatures in essence?
>
> The same question can be asked of straight people, by the way. Are they the
> way they are because that IS they way they truly are, or are they just
> being that way because they are playing the rolls they've been given to
> play?
>
 
I agree that many people seem to be living character roles (all around
me) - but I don't believe we have to live with it. (OK I'm going on my
soap box now!!!) :) - I have a friend (very cute & very straight) who
tells me that I am the most honest and real person he knows and that
scares him - I am very intense in my relationships (male and female) - I
don't like lying and I don't like people who won't show their true
selves to me - I figure we ALL have problems - what makes yours worse
than mine or mine worse than yours??? NOTHING!!! I hurt - you hurt - I'm
human - you're human - lets be human together - let's share our problems
with each other - maybe in sharing ourselves we can find the answers to
our problems - hey, at the very least, we won't feel like were going
thru this thing (LIFE) all alone!?!
 
> This relates to another issue that is being spoken about, how many of us
> feel alienated by our own "community" of gay men and women. And, to the
> extent that we do feel this alienation, how much of it is due to our own
> internalized homophobia and how much of it is just plane dislike for the
> games some of us play?
>
> These are issues I've been thinking about and sorting out all my life. I
> can tell you this: I know literally HUNDREDS of gay men and what surprises
> me is their utter diversity. I can tell you without doubt, there is no such
> thing as a typical gay man. I know young ones, old ones, cute ones, plane
> ones, big ones, little ones, straight acting and bent acting -- everything
> from leather to Queen Ann's lace, with some Prince Alberts thrown in just
> for kicks. The ONLY thing they ALL have in common is their "sexual
> orientation" -- and there's a lot of diversity even within that.
>
> So, who ARE we, anyway?
 
As for who I am -> I am who I am (that's not as profound as I want it to
be) - I DON'T know who I am!!! - I change daily (not mood swings - but
my actual beliefs, etc) - I am not the same person today that I was
yesterday - and am not the guy I will be tomorrow - So, be my friend and
help me discover who I am and who I'm going to be - and forgive me for
who I was yesterday!?! That is the essence of true humanity and
friendship - whether you're gay or straight - tall or short - American
or English or German or whatever!!! - We're people - let's be people!
(Was that profound?) :)
 
>
> Mike

*****************************************************

From: "Kevin
Date: 6/11/97 1:55PM
Subject: Re: To Gary and the list
 
>
> Mike,
> You've hit on something I've been wondering myself for a long time. I
> didn't come out till I was almost 27, and boy have I gotten an education
> these last 2 years. One thing I think is true is that straight people in
> our society are more free to be whatever they want to be. We on the other
> hand have to be more cautious in how we present ourselves so we don't get
> alienated or worse. That too changes with many factors I won't go into.
> I scare my gay friends sometimes with some of my 'straight' interests.
> Whether that is a product of coming out late or what society said I should
> be interested in, I'll never know. What counts is that I know who "I" am
> now and that is what counts. Part of my coming out process was the
> realization that there will always be people that don't like me and I can
> not please them all, so why try. I try to be just who I am. Like Jamie
> says "It don't matter what I think."
>
> Just more of the ramblings from:
> Todd
>
___________________________________
Bravo! I like what you had to say - I too am 29 and "weird out" anyone
who tries to figure me out - I'm "too gay to be straight and to straight
to be gay!?!" (I had a friend tell me that one - go figure!) - I have
always been middle of the road with my beliefs - I don't like rocking
the boat - but on the other hand, I won't sit idly by and let the boat
drift onto the rocks - give me a paddle and let me start rowing (ok,
that is a bit too allegorical - and I wasn't even an English Major in
college!?!) ;) - but I guess it comes down to - I am who I am - whether
you like me or not - I would prefer that everyone like me and sometimes
I won't offer information about myself to others if I know it'll make
them uncomfortable (I tend to care more about others than myself) :S -
but that's who I am and I am VERY comfortable with that. When people
find out about me, well, surprise seems to be the top-most thought in
their minds - By having something in common with everyone, not many
people have any reason to push me away. (Although many people keep
trying to "convert" me one way or the other) >:) - Oh, well, if it makes
them happy, I let them keep trying!?! Well, I'm babbling...but thanks
again for sharing yourself.
Kev

*****************************************************

From: Meinolf
Date: 6/11/97 2:45PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
Hallo Matthew and Youall,
I mean, I have to admit that I wondered the same thing.
Me to.
 
> I mean, everytime an actor is in a gay role, people question their
> personal sexuality. I think it makes some actors gay or straight
> fearful of playing those roles.
But what do you expect? Do you think it correct that everyone assumes
that an actor is strait only because he plays a strayt man in a
lovestory?
 
Even we, the gay people, think of the most of the actors they are
straigth. And within our hearts we cray "Oh why isn't he gay? wouldn't
it be beautiful?" And then many of us are ashamed by thinkin this.
 
But it is so naturaly.
Everyone dreams about the perfekt mate. And everyone takes pictuers he
already knows then.
 
Many girls and women dreamd of Rock Hudson. And we do the same thing.
 
Maybe it is a nice idear beeing them gay but is it nessesary to the
dream? No!
 
In my heard I am dreaming of the world as a place where everyone can be
as he wants to be. And gay, straight, or be does not exist any more.
Because all do love no matter whom. Love is love in wich way ever.
 
Oh yes, thats what I am dreaming for.
 
I do love people who aren't gay in a way it's seen most of the time
today (I do love gayman to :-) not to froget!). And the only thing
importand in the world is they love to be touched gentle no matter what
gender the person has if only they can trust them and the relationship
is full of respect.
 
Oh, I am lonly at the moment. But this is because I am afraid beeing
hurt from people without beeing able to live the love inside them. And
so I decided to stay in home with my computer and my VCR. only going out
when nessesary, work or shoping.
 
And thats all because it is so important to classify gay, straight or
whatever.
 
So stupid! Isn't it?
 
I am sory for the hard tone in my words but begin feeling my anger of
the try to make us all definid.
 
I am what I am! And that does not fit to a definition however open it
ever may be!
 
Meinolf
 
BTW I love to read yout mails! Take care of yourselve.

*****************************************************

From: Keith
Date: 6/11/97 2:47PM
Subject: Re: To Gary and the list -Reply
 
Todd,
 
You've hit on something that has always been on my mind somewhere.
(and perhaps contributed to my remaining closeted). I never understood
why if you admitted you were gay, you were supposed to participate in
"gay" activities, rather than "straight" ones. That seems to me to basically
be segregating myself from society as a whole. Because I'm gay does not
mean I want to join a "gay" soccer league, or a "gay" bowling league, or a
"gay" poetry club. Rather, I'd prefer to simply be part of my work's bowling
league, etc. , and simply be accepted as gay.
 
But then maybe I just answered my own question. Society's refusal to accept
me as gay, I guess forces me to join "gay" activities to be accepted, as I
would then be around people similar to myself.
 
Keith
 
(P.S. I don't play soccer, or bowl, but was just using them as examples.
Now Hockey - that's what I like to watch. A example of what happens
when testosterone flows unchecked (no pun intended).
 
P.P.S Better luck next year, Flyers!

*****************************************************

From: <Joe
Date: 6/11/97 3:06PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
In response to John Gault's Comment - Don't you Think ALL the arts are that
way? The artist is separatr from the Work?
 
JIm

*****************************************************

From: <Joe
Date: 6/11/97 3:08PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
Matthew  - You are right.....that is one reason Hollywood has
very few movies with gay actors....also, could it be that 10% of the viewing
audience is gay and MOST stright people really wouldn't care to see 2 gay
people???
Just a thought.
Jim

*****************************************************

From: "Ross
Date: 6/11/97 3:45PM
Subject: Sequal Title
 
By now we've all heard that a lot of people like the line:
 
"I'm happy when I'm with you."
 
The title should come along these lines. Although that would be a HUGE title!
 
Ross

*****************************************************

From: JOE
Date: 6/11/97 4:04PM
Subject: Re: Were They?
 
 
----------
> From: Todd
> Subject: Re: Were They?
> Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 11:32 AM
>
> The same can be said for the movie Jeffrey. Both Steven Weber and
Michael
> Weis were dogged by questions of sexuality and not only that, the
> gay/lesbian activists in the US are harsh, to say the least. I
dare say
> they would have lots of negative things to say about Beautiful
Thing even
> though it was a movie about love and not about being gay.
>
> Todd Brown
 
Interesting thought. Only Patrick Stewart (a Brit actor) escaped
unscathed among the straight cast that "played gay" for the movie,
"Jeffrey."
I also suspect some gays would be hesitant to push a movie like BT
because the boys are underage and they would be afraid this would
fuel the arguments of the Radical Religious Right that assumes all
gays are also members of NAMBLA.
Ah, to hell with them....we're here and they'll just have to deal
with us!
 
Gary

*****************************************************

From: JOE
Date: 6/11/97 4:14PM
Subject: Re: To Gary and the list
 
------
> From: Todd
>
> Mike,
> You've hit on something I've been wondering myself for a long time.
I
> didn't come out till I was almost 27, and boy have I gotten an
education
> these last 2 years. One thing I think is true is that straight
people in
> our society are more free to be whatever they want to be. We on
the other
> hand have to be more cautious in how we present ourselves so we
don't get
> alienated or worse. That too changes with many factors I won't go
into.
> I scare my gay friends sometimes with some of my 'straight'
interests.
 
Todd,
In order to save bandwidth (for Davie), this would be a great topic
to continue once we all have the new newsgroup on our ISPs.
In the meantime, it is such an important issue, especially for a lot
of gay guys who will see BT the first time and realize who they
really are.
You know, etiquette books tell us that, in polite society, one does
not discuss politics or religion. Well, "polite" gay society tries
too often to tell us we do not (1) discuss sports or show any
interest in it and (2) say anything critical about drag, since we all
know that every "queen" really wants to put on a dress.
Be warned, though: the last time I tried in an online forum to talk
about gays actually _liking_ sports, I was flamed! I was told (a)
that all _real_ gay guys had a horrible time in P.E. class, (b) no
_real_ gay guy plays or likes sports and (c) my liking sports was
obviously an internally homophobic attitude toward who I really was.
Amazing!
Hey, if you love to drive to the opera in drag while listening to
Judy Garland tapes in your car, then fine. It's your right. Just
don't deny my right - as a gay man - to drive to the football game in
jeans and a sweatshirt while listening to Green Day. :) (Of
course, we _might_ listen to showtunes if Jamie were in the car with
me.) <G>
 
Gary

*****************************************************

From: JOE
Date: 6/11/97 4:46PM
Subject: Re: News group
 
 
----------
> From: Gavin
> Subject: News group
> Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 6:29 AM
>
> Urrrkkkk....
>
> I got a reply from my university newsmaster. Correct me if I'm
wrong? Was
> it <alt.movies.beautiful_thing>? He tells me that:
 
It's a hyphen, not an underscore. alt.movies.beautiful-thing
 
Gary

*****************************************************

From: mesocyclone
Date: 6/11/97 5:27PM
Subject: Re: To Gary and the list -Reply
 
Keith -- you have brought up an interesting point. That once we come
out, we are expected to join or particiapte in gay activities, gay
groups, gay what not. Basically insulate ourselves in the gay ghetto.
That's always interested me. We clamor for rights and acceptance, but we
have all these groups/activities "for gays only". It seems to me that we
are quite a bit different from any other civil rights group to come
before us, simply for the reason that most of us could "pass" if we
needed to. It is not that easy to hide skin color or gender (although not
impossible), but most of us could pass for het if we had to. So it seems
to me that we are in the unique position of setting ourselves apart
first, letting everybody know why we are different, and making them okay
with that, and then convincing them that we are no different than anybody
else. It seems a strange position to be in.

 

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