Andriy Maymulakhin: Dr. Kukurekin, tell please about how our psychiatry treated homosexuality before, let's tell, ten years back?

Yury Kukurekin: 10 years back psychiatry unequivocally classified homosexuality as perversion, i.e. sexual distortion. If the person with homosexual tendencies had got to the psychiatrists, to him there would put the diagnosis: psychopathy, the perverse form. It was considered as hard disorder.

In a terminology the words "homosexualism" were applied, "homosexual". The term "the person with homosexual orientation" was unknown. But just in it there reveals that the given property is typology of a person. Nobody reflected that in each of us there are incorporated two elements. Both female and male. In the different people they only are combined in various proportions. All of us are accentuated persons, i.e. each of us has personal features.

AM: What normative documents related to homosexualism were in that time, which the psychiatrists used?

YK: There weren't any special instructions. The doctors use the reference book International Classification of Diseases (ICD). In 9- th issue of ICD in the section "Psychopathy and Disorder of Person" under code 302 listed "Sexual distortions": 302.0 - Homosexualism, Lesbianism, Pederasty. All in a heap! By the way, "Sexual distortions" in it section are between "Psychopathy" and "Alcoholism".

AM: Tell, please, what techniques were applied for treatment of homosexuals?

YK: Psychotherapy. From rationalistic up to hypnotherapy. But such treatment was applied when the patient considered himself the pervert and wanted to get rid of homosexual tendencies. One of the most known of our psychotherapist - Ya. Golend from Gorky (Nizhny Novgorod). In his work, especially with transsexuals, there were large successes.

But I should notice that a sexual inclination is very proof and gives in to correction hardly. I bring an example.

Some years ago on reception came big and handsome young man - a student of an institute. The history was the following:

This lad was friend of the girl who liked him very much and also wanted marry him. They had sexual contacts, but young man did not display a special activity, did not aspire to them. It disturbed his girlfriend a lot and she achieved his confession - he had homosexual contacts. On her initiative he has addressed to doctor.

We have carried out treatment long, about one year: psychotherapy, hypnoses, and the affair has moved from a dead point, they have got married and, apparently, became a happy couple... After this 7-8 years have passed and, casually having meet this already woman, I have learned a continuation of the history - they were divorced. After some time the husband has told to the wife: "It's OK, it's perfect, but, excuse me, I want a man..."

As a matter of fact, our influence on a patient was coding. Codes are not eternal. The biological basis breaks from within, supersedes psychiatric stratification.

AM: And if call-up medical commission in army found out the homosexuality of the person, what threatened to him?

YK: In the military-service card of him there would put a mark 7B - is only suitable for non-combatant service in wartime, also he would be sent to psychotherapy.

AM: In that time even voluntary homosexual acts between adult men used to be punished by the Criminal Code. How would act a psychiatrist if on reception to him a person had come and told that he had such sexual contacts? Would doctor declare to militia?

YK: No. Psychiatrists never transferred such information in bodies of internal affairs.

AM: I had an acquaintance in Moscow. During the youth, sometimes in 70-ths, he carried out a long time in psychiatric hospital, literally having been confined there. His father - some military high-rank - had learned that he is gay and, so as not to dishonor a uniform by such son, tried "to cure" him. At a rate of treatment there were Aminazin, an electroshock. So there is all that set which, under the various information, applied to Soviet dissidents - destruction of the person and attempt to collect it anew in parts. My acquaintance obviously has got rid very safely of it - since that he would have only headache, but the mind he did not lose. But as he told, it was even possible to become degenerate.

Whether the similar methods of treatment were applied here?

YK: I can not comment on it. Probably in Moscow something of such was used. But precisely I can tell that in our region such was not done.

AM: Now let's talk about changes in psychiatry. In what time they took place? How was it made out officially?

YK: As a matter of fact any essential changes has not taken place. The psychiatry and before did not consider homosexuality as illness, since psychopathy means an anomaly of mental development. So the point is that how actually psychiatrists concern to this personally.

AM: Certainly, psychiatrists are human too. And they also are subject to public stereotypes. But they should better understand a person.

YK: Unfortunately it is often possible to hear some jokes on this occasion even from the experts. Many are still disposed to homosexuals with suspicion. Today only small part of the psychiatrists is inclined to consider sexual orientation as personal business of each person.

AM: With what problems gays and lesbians address in your center? Do they come as a rule themselves or they are brought by the relatives?

YK: Themselves. With the question: "I understand that it is bad, how can I get rid of it? "

AM: What do you advise them?

YK: Not to play the fool. You want a guy, so find him and live happily. That such person needs, is to find connection with another the same. I address such people to the gay known for me, who helps them to understand themselves.

AM: What literature on the theme of homosexuality doctors use? Whether there are appropriate courses in medical educational institutions? Whether that information is enough for experts?

YK: The special courses are not present. The literature - two lines in the textbook.

AM: And whether in the this field researches, conferences, seminars are carried out?

YK: Researches on this theme are not present. In 1992 Eurasian Association of Sexologists devoted a special session to transsexuals. To the topic of homosexuality the attitude is more cautious.

In 1995 we submitted a material on this question on a conference, but in the reports it was not included. Then I have told to the organizers that the problem exists and it is necessary to turn to face it. And the next year in the reports there was a material on this theme.

AM: And the last question. Whether do you consider that there is the problem of "homosexuality" in the society, and if yes, what it consists in?