Welcome Gentle Idiots.

In Elizabeth's Universe, even idiots are welcomed and respected for the gifts they give to us all, even if it is simply amusing conversation.

	Follow this dialogue and tell me what you think of our friend Cocali19 in an America Online IM chat I had with him on the morning of 4 June 1999. I am PaleMist in this conversation. The identities of both parties have been kept just as they are and the dialogue is unexpurgated so that no one may dispute who said what and when. Enjoy! =) Cocali19: i'm very interested in meeting u off-line. Cocali19: i also live in california. PaleMist: hi =) Cocali19: what's up? PaleMist: I don't do guys...sorry Cocali19: what do u do? PaleMist: women Cocali19: .... Cocali19: are u a guy or girl? Cocali19: or both ... Cocali19: .... PaleMist: both by choice Cocali19: so you're a transvestite? Cocali19: then why does your profile say ... female? and not, both? PaleMist: transsexual... Cocali19: so ... u were a guy? PaleMist: I am female in appearance... Cocali19: or still are a guy? PaleMist: maybe..depends on your definition of "guy" PaleMist: I am not a guy now... PaleMist: I am a chick with a dick Cocali19: okay ... i'll break it down. do u have a penis? Cocali19: lol ... then you're a guy. PaleMist: then why do I use the women's rest room in public? PaleMist: it's not that simple PaleMist: I have breasts PaleMist: the average joe on the street assums I am all female PaleMist: assumes Cocali19: just because you dress like a woman and had breast implants ... doesn't make u a woman. PaleMist: no implants PaleMist: natural Cocali19: what size are they? PaleMist: I am certainly not a man Cocali19: training bra? PaleMist: A cup...I am thin...they won't get much bigger. Cocali19: most likely you are a man if u have a penis. PaleMist: that's a very narrow viewpoint Cocali19: of course not ... cause guys don't have breasts. Cocali19: not really ... PaleMist: and I don't want to argue with you..it's a waste of my time PaleMist: I am not a man or a guy Cocali19: a "chick with a dick?" PaleMist: if you want PaleMist: a shemale PaleMist: if you want Cocali19: lol ... and u do women? PaleMist: a non-operative transsexual PaleMist: if you want PaleMist: that's what I said at the start Cocali19: so you're heterosexual ... Cocali19: not homo. PaleMist: term doesn't apply any more Cocali19: why not? PaleMist: I can't be hetero or homo when I am neither one or the other Cocali19: are u bi? PaleMist: I don't get sexually turned on by guys Cocali19: so that would make u heterosexual ... Cocali19: right? Cocali19: if u only do women ... PaleMist: No...that usually makes me a transgendered lesbian PaleMist: or a bisexual woman's dream Cocali19: so ... you were originally a woman? PaleMist: you don't get it...life isn't that simple Cocali19: well ... if you answer the ?'s ... it is. PaleMist: there is more to life than just "men" and "women" Cocali19: like what? PaleMist: you don't live my life...how could you know? Cocali19: gender is gender bro ... PaleMist: no it is not PaleMist: There are people born with a mixture of parts Cocali19: so ... were u born with a penis or not? PaleMist: and don't call me bro..I find your attitude very offensive Cocali19: simple ? ... PaleMist: what does it matter I'm not sleeping with you... Cocali19: i'm just curious ... maybe i can help u out. Cocali19: with your confusion ... PaleMist: I don't think so PaleMist: I am not confused PaleMist: you are. Cocali19: well ... were you born with a penis or not? PaleMist: listen...what's your point? what do you want from me? Cocali19: why are u so pissed off? Cocali19: does it offend u to talk about it? Cocali19: i'm just curious ... Cocali19: no big deal ... PaleMist: because you are being a narrow-minded, heterocentric dick Cocali19: how? Cocali19: i'm asking questions that u won't answer. PaleMist: because you are trying to push your bi-polar ideals on me... Cocali19: no i'm not ... i'm not pushing anything on you. Cocali19: geez. PaleMist: no you are not asking me questions...you are trying to box me into your categories Cocali19: WHAT!? Cocali19: i don't know what you are talking about ... Cocali19: i never said anything about categories. PaleMist: go backand reat the IM...scroll up... PaleMist: categories of "guy" and "girl"...two categories... PaleMist: humans come in 6 billion categories... PaleMist: one for each individual Cocali19: okay, fine. what category are u in? none? PaleMist: I am me Cocali19: okay ... and what is "you?" Cocali19: is there a defintion to that? Cocali19: ... PaleMist: I already told you......no there is no definitive definition PaleMist: you just know a few pices of me PaleMist: pieces Cocali19: okay ... now from that statement, can i determine, that u don't know who "you" are? PaleMist: that would be a silly assumption Cocali19: well ... then what do u mean by your statement? PaleMist: in Native American spirituality I am a shaman Cocali19: what is a shaman? Cocali19: she-male? PaleMist: or a Berdache...one who walks in to worlds at the same time Cocali19: so are u a supernatural being? PaleMist: no...a shaman is a spiritual leader... PaleMist: no I am human Cocali19: okay ... Cocali19: and what two worlds do u walk simultaneoulsy? PaleMist: actually, the accepted definition is two worlds PaleMist: I walk in many worlds, because there are more than two Cocali19: well ... i'm just going by what you said. u said u walk in two worlds at the same time ... PaleMist: I accept the multipicity of my world and the complexity of gender...I am masculine and feminine...and things other than either Cocali19: well ... everyone is masculine and feminine. PaleMist: multiplicity Cocali19: i am ... PaleMist: yes...so if that is the case, why do you try to polarize man and woman? PaleMist: Where do you put a person born with a penis and breasts? Cocali19: because there is a such thing as anatomy ... PaleMist: where do you put a person born with a penis and a vagina? Cocali19: on the man side. PaleMist: that's idiotic Cocali19: why? PaleMist: you let that person choose where they want to live their life PaleMist: and stop boxing them into your categories PaleMist: I know one such woman..and she never had any reason to be put in any man category Cocali19: but ... lots of men have breasts ... that doesn't make them women. usually it makes them out of shape. Cocali19: .... PaleMist: yes, but there are variations in the human form...not everything can be boxed into one or the other Cocali19: right ... but very few exceptions. Cocali19: i doubt you are an exception. PaleMist: you just can't see the possibilities because you are blinded by your perspective PaleMist: what are you trying to prove? Cocali19: not true ... i totally see what you're saying. Cocali19: nothing ... i'm just discussing. PaleMist: but you are already biased against seeing the real me PaleMist: you already doubt things you haven't come into contact with Cocali19: how can u say that!? u don't even know me. Cocali19: okay ... so were you born with a penis or not? PaleMist: you just said "I doubt you are an exception." How is that not a biased judgement? PaleMist: you can't handle the answer to that question Cocali19: try me ... PaleMist: and I will not answer it because you use it as a basis to box me into one category or another PaleMist: you have to prove your self to get that answer Cocali19: no ... i'm just trying to see your point of view. and i can't know your point of view, until u answer the question. Cocali19: prove myself in what way? Cocali19: and to u!? PaleMist: no I can't answer the question until you know my point of view...Catch 22 PaleMist: pov Cocali19: so ... how will i ever know your pov? PaleMist: the answer to that question does not contain my point of view...it is simple biological data...irrelevent in who I choose to be PaleMist: you probably will not...you aren't ready to know my pov... Cocali19: and who do u choose to be? Cocali19: how do u know what i'm ready for!? PaleMist: Mark Elizabeth PaleMist: I know.... Cocali19: u don't know anything about me ... PaleMist: shaman's instincts Cocali19: i'll say it again ... you don't know anything about me. PaleMist: I don't Cocali19: lol ... like i said ... you don't know anything about me. PaleMist: but I know much about you based upon your dialogue PaleMist: you are transparent Cocali19: know ... you know much about how you categorize me! Cocali19: no. Cocali19: you are just like me .... PaleMist: you wouldn't even question my appearance...in fact you'd probably be attracted to me Cocali19: but yet ... you try to be different. Cocali19: very irrelevant ... PaleMist: I don't categorize you...I just see your actions...I don't box you into anything...I just observe.. Cocali19: who cares about that? PaleMist: you try to compare and contrast me with your "norms" Cocali19: and i observe just like u do ... Cocali19: lol ... PaleMist: then do some observing and lest comparing Cocali19: you are so caught up in that web ... PaleMist: less Cocali19: how can i ... you're too afraid to answer my questions. PaleMist: I am not afraid... Cocali19: very ... PaleMist: you haven't shown me I should trust you Cocali19: you're too afraid of the truth, most likely. and you try to hide logics with all your psychobable nonsense. Cocali19: i've seen your kind ... PaleMist: and fyi everything about me is highly visible if you know where to look...and I'm not talking about what's physically in my thong Cocali19: simple observation ... Cocali19: on my part ... Cocali19: fyi PaleMist: you think you can goad me into your world PaleMist: So you never answered my question...what's your point? Cocali19: no ... i don't. that's a simple observation. PaleMist: what's a simple observation? Cocali19: no point ... just an interesting discussion. PaleMist: in 99% of your possible dealings with me you need never know if I have a penis or not PaleMist: why is that 1% of pissibiltiy so important to you? Cocali19: i don't care if you do ... all i asked was if your were born with one or not ... PaleMist: possibility Cocali19: it's not. PaleMist: what does it matter? Cocali19: curiousity ... PaleMist: why don't you try treating me as the uniwue human I am and then if I trust you we can get into details like that? PaleMist: unique Cocali19: what's that supposed to mean? "the unique human you are?" PaleMist: I just ask that you first and foremost respect my personal space and lifestyle.. Cocali19: i respect everyone's lifestyle. PaleMist: I am a unique human being as are you... PaleMist: you don't respect mine when you feel the need to categorize me Cocali19: i respect all people the same ... until given a reason not to. PaleMist: I respect all people the same...period PaleMist: there is no reason to disrespect others Cocali19: no ... until given a reason not too. PaleMist: no good reason anyway Cocali19: bull ... PaleMist: name one PaleMist: name one that doesn't lessen you as a human Cocali19: so if someone pisses on my face ... and starts throwing punches at me ... i'm supposed to respect that? PaleMist: name one that doesn't demean you ... Cocali19: i'm supposed to respect someone who steals my stuff? Cocali19: and who tells me i'm no good, and is better than me? PaleMist: you defend yourself.......you do what you need to, but if you then piss in their face...what have you accomplished? PaleMist: you have simply perpetuated the ahte and anger PaleMist: the hate Cocali19: we are talking about respect ... is someone does that to me, i'm not gonna respect them. PaleMist: an eye for an eye you are huh? Cocali19: plain and simple. Cocali19: no ... Cocali19: not at all. PaleMist: there is a difference between not respecting someone and disrespecting someone PaleMist: one is a cause/effect..the other is an aggressive act Cocali19: okay ... can i make an observation? PaleMist: sure PaleMist: observe Cocali19: you make everythig complicated ... even when it's as simple as 2 + 2. PaleMist: nothing is simple as 2 + 2. Cocali19: watch ... Cocali19: man steals my money = man does not have my respect. Cocali19: it's that simple. PaleMist: there is more complexity to life that you care to admit...or can handle Cocali19: no ... i disagree. i choose to see logics. PaleMist: yes...but does that mean you DISrespect him and beat him up or steal his money in retaliation? Cocali19: no ... PaleMist: You see simple logics...not complex ones Cocali19: not necessarily. PaleMist: not necessarily?????? Cocali19: no ... PaleMist: give me one justifiable reason why it would be NEcessary? Cocali19: okay ... you're suggesting that it is okay to steal!? PaleMist: no...no such thing Cocali19: then why would i respect someone who deliberately would steal from me? PaleMist: but you are talking to a person who doesn't belive in ownership of personal property...so watch out. Cocali19: so ... you do think it's okay to steal? PaleMist: you don't respect that person...but if you attempt to disrespect them by violating them in retaliation, then you are just as bad as the person who steals Cocali19: i disagree. do you not abibe by the laws we've been given? i would retaliate in means of getting my stuff back, and in means of sending a thief to jail. PaleMist: We all borrow certain things from the world around us. I borrow the house I live in and the land I reside on from the earth...when I die, I will give it back to her...possibly she will take it back before then... PaleMist: yes, but that is not disrespecting him... Cocali19: well ... then there is a reason i would not respect someone. Cocali19: plain and simple. Cocali19: like most things ... PaleMist: what makes a lwa right and wrong? PaleMist: law PaleMist: right or wrong Cocali19: you know what makes a law right or wrong ... PaleMist: if I did I wouldn't be asking you Cocali19: so ... you think we should live in a world without laws? PaleMist: you are afraid to answer MY question? Cocali19: no ... PaleMist: you can't aswer my question? Cocali19: i think you know the answer. PaleMist: answer PaleMist: no I don't... Cocali19: why? Cocali19: well ... why don't u? PaleMist: because I want to know your answer. Cocali19: are u ignorant? Cocali19: the government makes laws ... PaleMist: how can I discuss an issue when I don't know your opinion Cocali19: it's not an opinion ... Cocali19: the government makes laws. PaleMist: do you blindly accept what others say is right and wrong? PaleMist: does that make the government right? PaleMist: the government is now god? PaleMist: free to judge you and I any way it sees fit? Cocali19: well ... if the government says, don't kill anybody, then yes, they are right. PaleMist: you are avoiding the question Cocali19: what question? PaleMist: but if someone wants to die and Dr. Kervorkian kills them, is he breaking the law? PaleMist: the wuestion about what makes a law right or wrong PaleMist: question Cocali19: well ... in this world, the government makes the laws right and wrong. PaleMist: yes,, so you so blindly spout...but how do YOU know that the law is right or wrong? What about how you feel? Cocali19: i feel the same way ... i've never thought it was right to steal, i never thought it was right to murder ... etc. PaleMist: there are cultures that don't live under governments and laws...just because we do and happen to be a large portion of the world doesn't mean we are right Cocali19: and it just so happens ... that that is the law. PaleMist: but if it is not right, why do we need the law? Cocali19: do we live with those other cultures? Cocali19: no ... PaleMist: if it is so obvious, then everyone should feel as you do. Cocali19: of course not. Cocali19: there are millions of people who don't feel as i do ... PaleMist: maybe we have something to learn from those other cultures...ever think about that? PaleMist: no need to write them off simply because they are only 30 people in some remote jungle in south america... Cocali19: like ... maybe, we should learn, that it is okay to be cannibalisitic, and eat our friends. would that help us? PaleMist: you can look at whatever you want to...but in some cases it is necessary to do just that Cocali19: why do u refuse to accept our reality? Cocali19: this is our world ... this is how it is. plain and simple. PaleMist: 30 people crash in a plane in the mountains of Chile and they have to eat their dead to stay alive PaleMist: no it is not plain and simple...for every "law" you spout there are exceptions..and more exceptions Cocali19: true ... Cocali19: ??? PaleMist: you try to over-simplify things that you don't understand Cocali19: your point? PaleMist: above Cocali19: do u think you are talking to a 5 year old or something? PaleMist: you cannot reduce everything to the lowest common demoninator Cocali19: but ... you can try. PaleMist: despite what you may have been taught in algebra PaleMist: and what a waste of time it is...discard the excess... PaleMist: where does the excess go? PaleMist: how much excess is dispensible? PaleMist: delete the marginalized people? Cocali19: what is a waist of time, accepting this reality? which, seems to bother u so much. PaleMist: do you see how this leads to genocide? Cocali19: i deal with the things that i face day to day ... PaleMist: it is simplistic thinking like you are describing that allowed Hitler to corrale so many people Cocali19: WOW ... you're comparing me to hitler!? PaleMist: but you refuse to accept the role you play in the evolution of human kind. I do not...that is what makes us different PaleMist: no I am not...(Hitler was much smarter) Cocali19: do u even know what you are talking about!? PaleMist: I am just showing you where that thinking CAN lead Cocali19: no ... hitler was a psycho!! Cocali19: one in a trillion! Cocali19: okay ... HELLO!? PaleMist: when I was younger, I used to think in terms of months...maybe a year from now Cocali19: uh huh ... PaleMist: as I get older...I get less and less concerned with even the next 5 years PaleMist: or even 10 years Cocali19: .... Cocali19: .... PaleMist: I know that what I do today will change things for 1000s of people in the future...I don't know how...I don't know the specifics...but I know that my actions have long-term consequences Cocali19: you don't know that at all ... Cocali19: how can u possibly say what the future will be like ... PaleMist: they also have immediate consequences...but I don't ignore the long-term ones simply because I am only worried about me and my world PaleMist: I don't know what it will be like... Cocali19: okay ... what do u believe in? PaleMist: but I know I CAN have a huge effect on the future... PaleMist: and I am going for the long-term evolution of mankind... PaleMist: not trying to maintain a status quo Cocali19: evolution? Cocali19: u believe in evolution? PaleMist: things evolve, change, grow, die Cocali19: answer the question Cocali19: .... Cocali19: why are u avoiding? PaleMist: everything evolves...it's not as simple as what I believe in Cocali19: what do u believe? PaleMist: I think scientists make way too many assumptions about past events PaleMist: I know I change and evolve PaleMist: and I see the world around me changing and evolving Cocali19: so ... do u believe in evolution? PaleMist: and I see some people trying to resist change and evolution Cocali19: are u talking to yourself or what!? answer the question? PaleMist: trying to maintain a stasis..and they spend more energy resisting change than they do living their lives PaleMist: look at my answer ...you can read the words yourself PaleMist: you want a simple answer PaleMist: and I am giving you the complex one Cocali19: okay ... do u believe in evolution? PaleMist: you can't handle the complex answer Cocali19: yes or no? PaleMist: if I say yes, you will make assumptions...I don't know what your agenda is in asking the question. PaleMist: I know that I change and evolve. Cocali19: why am i gonna discuss a complexity when i don't even know the simplistics? PaleMist: I wasn't around millions of years ago...I cannot affirm or dispute events that happened then PaleMist: I think the big bang is a theory PaleMist: I think species evolve Cocali19: okay ... so why won't you answer the question? Cocali19: afraid? Cocali19: scared? PaleMist: are you asking me if I believe in God? PaleMist: ask the question you really want to ask Cocali19: no ... i'm asking if you believe in evolution? Cocali19: for the 15th time. PaleMist: I see evolution happening before me... PaleMist: you are evolving as I speak to you Cocali19: u are so busy typing your bs ... that u don't even remember my question. PaleMist: you are so wrapped up in your little world that you are blind to what I am saying Cocali19: see ... you ARE afraid aren't u? PaleMist: no I am not. PaleMist: why are you afraid to read what I am really saying? Cocali19: then why can't u answer a simple yes no question? PaleMist: becaus for the 100th time it is not a simple yes or no question Cocali19: okay ... so u don't know what you believe, is that what you are saying? PaleMist: no not at all. Cocali19: so you know if you believe in evolution or not, right? PaleMist: evolution is a very broad topic...and I need to know specifically what you mean by it PaleMist: are you asking me "do I belive that humans evolved from apes?" PaleMist: or chimpanzees rather Cocali19: do u believe that we evolved after billions of years from a speck ... to an ape, to a human? PaleMist: I believe it is possible Cocali19: okay ... so therefore, u believe in evolution? PaleMist: you are so hell-bent on simplifying everything Cocali19: why won't you answer!? PaleMist: the knowledge of evolution of human kind does not get me anywhere useful today Cocali19: okay ... do u believe in god? PaleMist: other than the observable knowledge that humans are evolving right now PaleMist: let me rephrase you question. Cocali19: ... PaleMist: Do I believe in a sentient being that exists and controls us and/or chooses to watch over us? PaleMist: no. Cocali19: so ... u don't believe in god? PaleMist: Do I believe that there is energy that humans can tap into and use through shared experiences? yes Cocali19: you don't believe in god, and u don't believe in evolution ... PaleMist: I think many people have differing definitions of god Cocali19: you are agnostic ... PaleMist: I don't believe there is a life form that we call god...not something that is a tangible life form PaleMist: I am existential Cocali19: what is that? PaleMist: but I believe that people draw power from their belief in a god or gods PaleMist: what is what? Cocali19: existential Cocali19: .... PaleMist: In simplistic terms...for you......I can't give you a simple definition PaleMist: I'll try to elaborate Cocali19: how old are you? PaleMist: I can't speak for all of existentialism...just what I see and believe Cocali19: is that complicated to? Cocali19: age? Cocali19: lol ... PaleMist: 30 PaleMist: I see what is before me, and trust what I see. Cocali19: so you don't believe in the wind, right? PaleMist: I don't blindly follow anything that I can't experience directly Cocali19: so like i said ... u don't believe in the wind. PaleMist: I can't explain to you what wind is....I am not a scientist Cocali19: right ... PaleMist: so. Cocali19: .... PaleMist: so.... Cocali19: so what? PaleMist: so what is your question? Cocali19: common ... i want to hear more of your bs ... PaleMist: you are a dick Cocali19: .... Cocali19: angry are we? PaleMist: no. PaleMist: just an observation Cocali19: a bad one ... PaleMist: do you have anything more you want to waste my time with? Cocali19: look who's talking about waisting time ... Cocali19: lol ... PaleMist: wasting...you've used the wrong waste several times PaleMist: waste not waist PaleMist: I am waiting... PaleMist: going once? PaleMist: going twice? PaleMist: going three times? Cocali19: what!? PaleMist: anything more to say? PaleMist: before I get the sleep you are depriving me of... Cocali19: um ... ya. you shouldn't try to make things as complicated as u make them. try to look at life realistically, and logically.3 Cocali19: it's much easier, and less stressful. PaleMist: ignorance is bliss Cocali19: no wonder you are happy ... Cocali19: lol PaleMist: you know...there is a flaw in our teaching of humans....we don't teach them how to listen to emotions and feelings and instincts..only how to analyze facts PaleMist: what a waste of the human form		1999-07-15 Here is a declaration from the page owner: If you want to have an intelligent conversation with me, please feel free to engage me in one. If on the other hand you want to push your limited world view onto me or drag me into your tiny little world and it's limiting definitions, know that your posts and letters will go directly to my idiot's page. Fair enough? I think so. Record 107 Name: Joel Referred by: Lycos From: CO Time: 1999-07-14 21:45:58 Comments: Hi Beth. Joel here. So, umm . . . what's with the attitude? I'm not going to get into the whole thing about whether or not you having a hoohaw interferes with you being a female . . . or even if it's right. I'm just a bit concerned about your pissy attitude toward other people's opinions. Now, let's be real, here. We can't change the way people are. People can be nice, they can be mean, chauvanist, transexual, tired . . . just about anything. Judging by your homepage . . . you have something against idiots. I agree. Idiots are awful, and should be dealt with. But what is an idoit? You seem to define an idiot as someone who does not agree with you or the way your carry yourself. I can understand being torked off at someone for being mean . . . but not because they don't agree with you. Get real. Joel although you don't sound like an idiot, you surely are blind if you cannot see that the convo to the left is not just a disagreement. And come on, Joel, you don't even have the guts to post your email here? What a wimp. You go on the idiot page because you are an idiot supporter. ;-) And don't be a wus if you want to take me on; give me your email addy so I can let YOU know how I feel. Fair is fair, right? Record 105 Name: abagail Website: Referred by: From a Friend From: not near you Time: 1999-07-08 13:13:32 Comments: I came to this page because I heard it was well written and informative.But instead all I found was that I found is a transsexual who makes us real women get exploited even more.Gee, thanks, for making men feel like all women want to be treated like dirt. From what I have seen in your pics, and now know about your disturbing personal life, all I can say is that you are nothing more than a one-woman freak show......I'm sure the world will learn from you all right: to stay away from YOU! I am having a great laugh today. I don't think Abagail read my page at all but instead is just popping around to all the TG sites and posting this same message. No friend would recommend such a closed minded individual to come here for "the informative site"....Thank you Abagail, you belong on my idiot's page =) As for everyone else and the regulars, I love you all. Elizabeth