American Religious Diversity

Postings to Yahoo group religiousdiversity2



Post #6672
Date: Wed Nov 5, 2003
Subject: Re: Q #15 ~
The way I understood it:
Wolfram's Rule 110 says the universe is a result of a simple computational code - it's all random.

Gould's spandrel theory says the universe is a bunch of consequences; that some things have no purpose - it's all random.

The question wants you to explain how Wolfram supports Gould.



Post #6616
Date: Mon Nov 3, 2003
Subject: Religious Pluralism, Q#12
Here are some websites that may help with midterm question #12.

[http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us:8080/tserve/eighteen/ekeyinfo/midcol.htm]
The Middle Colonies as the Birthplace of American Religious Pluralism

[http://www.apologeticsindex.org/p14.html]
"... is an affirmation of the validity of every religion, and the refusal to choose between them, and the rejection of world evangelism."

[http://www.deepsight.org/articles/westcon.htm]
Can the west be converted?

Any websites with insights into the heretical imperative would be helpful! Thanks.



Post #6594
Date: Sat Nov 1, 2003
Subject: Race - the power of an illusion
The California Newsreel put out a three part video today called "Race - the power of an illusion". You can read the transcript on-line at: [http://www.newsreel.org/films/race.htm].

The show discusses how race is not biological, but why we think it is. While there is no genetic code for race, we choose which race people should belong to based on their biological output (skin color, hair texture). And from there, most people will make racist assumptions - even about themselves.

I like how Stephen Jay Gould explained it ...

"My favorite trivia question in baseball is which Italian-American player for the Brooklyn Dodgers once hit 40 home runs in a season and no one ever gets it right, because the answer is Roy Campanella, who is as Italian as he was Black. He had an Italian father and a Black mother, he's always classified as Black. You see, American racial classification is totally cultural. Who's Tiger Woods? Who's Colin Powell? Colin Powell's as Irish as he is African. Being Black has been defined as just looking dark enough that anyone can see you are."



Post #6536
Date: Wed Oct 29, 2003
Subject: Nietzsche - Or Is Religion Sophisticated?
In doing research for the midterm and my next movie, and thinking about Nietzsche, I was wondering... are religions sophisticated? By this I mean, are todays religions and new religious beliefs merely sophisticated versions of ancient religions?

In class on Monday we talked about how new religions are results of new gods, and that as religion grows up the silly/stupid ones die. Nietzsche thinks we are too smart to believe the nonsense of a lifetime ago, and for that reason (intelligence and/or just plain sense) we dump the silly ones to take on more sophisticated ones. I don't think so.

I think the silly ones aren't dumped, but rather change forms so that they are more believable. In order to be more believable, they must

1. keep the skeleton of the old silly religion because that's where the basic concept of faith is rooted
2. forbid the 'evil' beliefs of any suppressive or aggressive religions
3. integrate any new knowledge (i.e. the earth revolves the sun)
4. provide a new and improved purpose or reward for changing faith

For example, Christianity has remnants of Egyptian mythology: god coming from heaven to live on earth, death and rebirth, nothing exists without the "Father", modelling in god's image with clay. {http://gtae.users.btopenworld.com} Knowing that the pre-Christian Jews were enslaved by Egyptians, it is possible that the Egyptian culture influenced the "new" gospel and the new religious traditions. (Memes in action.) With a heavy influence and so many similarities, perhaps Christianity is merely a sophisticated mix of Judaism and Egyptian mythology.

Judaism + Egyptian mythology&influence = Christianity

Okay, then what will be the next sophisticated religion to replace Christianity (if it dies)? Or Christianity could take a new form?

Africans brought to the U.S. as slaves had their own distinct faith, were suppressed by Christians and influenced by the Christian society. Did a new religions spring from that? No, the majority of black-Americans are just as faithful to the Christian religion as the white-Americans, although Vodou is still practiced in the U.S. {http://www.mamiwata.com/vodou1.htm}

Native American Indians were also enslaved and suppressed by the Christians. They were beaten or killed for speaking their native language or if they were caught secretly practicing their own non- Christian beliefs. {http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/nm/julia/history.html} And although a new, individually separate religion was not born from this enslavement, many Natives now practice a blend of the two religions. {http://www.mamiwata.com/vodou1.htm}

Native spirituality + Christian mythology&influence = ?

We have yet to see.



Post #6443
Date: Thu Oct 23, 2003
Subject: Response: Inconsistency of The Bible regarding lecture
That's a dangerous way to view the Bible (in my opinion) - choosing to be blind to it's contradictions is no different than choosing to be blind to it's inspiration for faith or "divine teachings". Where do you draw the line? This website lists many many contradictions (you have to scroll down quite a bit). See: www.sharif.org.uk

These cannot and should not be dismissed as 'close enough'. Anyone who studies the bible as a means to an end (ie heaven) should honesty acknowledge the contradictions and accept them, not just shrug their shoulders. Because not all of the contradictions are "small".

For example, 2 Samuel 8:4 says 7 hundred horsemen and 1 Chronicles 18:4 says 7 thousand horsemen. 1 Chronicles 21:12 says three years famine and 2 Samuel 24:13 says seven years famine. How are those the same thing? Can you justify those differences in the same manner?

Here's a less dramatic example: Matthew 27:9 says "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value". Jeremiah never said anything even remotely similar. Maybe Matthew meant Zechariah 11:11-13? This error I would say is an error on Matthew's part; it is believable that he must not have known the scripture perfectly.

Here's another website with some of the same points, a little easier to read: hammer.prohosting.com

Happy reading!



Post #6430
Date: Thu Oct 23, 2003
Subject: Breakdown of religions in America
According to the website below, the religious breakdown in the US is:
Christian 84.7%
- Independent 28.2%
- Protestant 23.2%
- Roman Catholic 20.8%
- Unaffiliated 15.8%
- Marginal 3.6%
- Orthodox 2.1%
- Anglican 0.9%
- Double-affiliated [9.9%]
Nonreligious 9.0%
Jewish 2.0%
Muslims 1.5%
Buddhist 0.9%
Atheist 0.4%
Hindu 0.4%
New-Religions 0.3%
Baha'i 0.3%
Ethnoreligions 0.2%
Sikh 0.1%
Spiritist 0.1%

Wow! To see how other nations fare, go to: http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/nationprofiles/.



Post #6420
Date: Wed Oct 22, 2003
Subject: For fun ...
Want to become a legally ordained minister? No religious affiliations necessary. And its free.
www.universalministries.com/doctrine.cfm



Post #6233
Date: Tue Oct 14, 2003
Subject: Re: What IS being left out?
I didn't understand who Dr. Lane said was making the decisions about which books to keep and which to toss out. Was it the politicians? Or was it the Christians?

And if it were the politicians, why wouldn't they have destroyed all of the books? Dr. Lane said certain books were demanded to be burnt, but that a very small number of people were able to hide those books which is how we found them. How had the political arena changed between the time of King Herod and the compliling of the new testament?

And if it were the Christians, why would they choose to get rid of some books over others? Wouldn't they want to keep every trace of their savior? Why would they be selective about what memories should remain? Why would one person's account be more or less valid than another person's account?

If it were the Christian politicians that were in office as you stated below, 70 to 100 years after Jesus' death, how were they influenced on what books to keep? Even if they did fast and pray, their parents, and their friends, and all of the political and social goings-on must have had a big contribution to their decisions. Couldn't it have been similar to lobbying?

You asked what other political institution has started off this way? I don't understand. Are you asking what other government has started off with persecution then permission of a religion? Or are you asking what other government was started by religiously affiliated individuals?



Post #6221
Date: Mon Oct 13, 2003
Subject: Cults & Brainwashing
Last week Dr. Lane briefly mentioned how when Christianity first began, it was thought to be a cult. In fact, all new religions are cult-like in their beginning.

Today, it is a common conception that cults brainwash people to join their organization so that they can take advantage of its members either psychologically or financially. Some groups may and others probably don't brainwash - our media does a great job of misrepresting and feeding on our paranoia. Here are two websites to shed light on brainwashing:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/cultsect/brainwashing.htm
http://www.cesnur.org/testi/melton.htm



Post #6218
Date: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:53 am
Subject: Reply: American Religious Diversity-Jesus Life?
First, to address your concerns about the myths of Jesus' life - In my post #5994, I argue that the Bible is not a book of facts. It is not complete, nor completely accurate. There is a multitude of detail missing. Besides, only using a single source to find information for basing your belief will always leave unanswered questions. Before abandoning your faith, research the questions you have using other resources.

Secondly, about having a purpose to life. Why can't evolution be correct and you still have a purpose? My dog has never read the Bible, but in his heart of hearts he believes (and without too much effort) he has a purpose - to love his owner. Why can't we have evolved from less human-like ancestors and still find a purpose? I'm confused on why the two are connected. You said that without a purpose we are no different than any other creature. But perhaps you mean a GREATER purpose? To that I answer ... "The smaller the mind the greater the conceit" (Aesop, ~500BCE).



Post #6098
Date: Wed Oct 8, 2003 9:51 am
Subject: Media Development Center
A word of advice about using the Media Development Center to make your movie...

1. Don't prepare anything prior to getting there. They are totally unable to convert any file over to a DVD format. Just take your raw pictures/clips.
2. Take more than one blank DVD in case they f up the first one.
3. They only have CD, DVD, and zip drives. Don't take any floppies. I was over there for three hours yesterday and all they were able to do was screw up the DVD I brought in. Everyone who tried to help did not really know what they were doing, they were just guessing.
Good luck!



Post #5994
Date: Fri Oct 3, 2003 2:58 pm
Subject: Is the Bible true?
Is every word of the Bible true or is it really just a tool to inspire humankind? Some christians say that the Bible is infallable - that every single word is the concrete truth. Then when asked if the sun moves around the earth they will say no, of course not. Science has shown us that the earth moves around the sun. But the Bible says in Joshua chapter 10 that the sun was commanded to stand still. If the sun doesn't move, how can it be told to stand still? And if this story is an accurate recollection where every word is the hard truth, why didn't the writer just change the word sun to earth and tell 'the earth to stand still'?

I propose that the Bible is an instrument to inspire humankind. It means to provide hope and peace. It can instill compassion and kindness. It cannot however answer questions regarding the laws of nature. And I really don't think it was intended to. And since it isn't truth verbatim we cannot use it to explain our origin. Let me see if I can say it another way...

If Moses wrote the account of Genesis more than 3,000 years ago based on a vision, could it not be said that he wrote the stories to the best of his understanding? I mean really, if he had visions of the internet or gene therapy or deep sea diving would he have had a clue what it was? No way. If Moses saw a vision of the Big Bang would he know how to describe it using laws of physics? No. But he would be able to describe the vision by saying that god created the heavens and the earth. Since that is all he wrote, does that mean that is all that happened? I don't think so.

If a layman were to watch an experienced sculptor mold an intricately detailed sculpture and then try to explain what they saw happen with words, would they be able to describe every tool, every stroke, every bend of the wrist, with art jargon? Would they want to? Probably not because it would be too tedious to read and only understood by a few. But, if the observer were to write what they saw happening in such a way that it moved those who read it to be able to see the final piece in their own minds, wouldn't the writer rather do that than explain the process? I think the account of Genesis (and the rest of the Bible) has inspired humans for centuries so that we would be in awe of the completed work; rather than detailing the processes of life, it moves the reader to see the art of life.

It is for this reason that using the Bible to explain for example, mitochondrial genome mutations thru generations to show human migration patterns, is well, ludicrous. Likewise, using the account of Genesis to explain with scientific detail the origin of humans is well, missing the point.



Post #5773
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:06 pm
Subject: Re: Human interuptions on Evolution
For starters, the process of cloning has not been perfected enough to effectively use it. If that day ever comes, cloning an individual would not necessarily guarantee their species' survival. (Remember, the panda bears are not endangered because they are genetically inept to survive in their environment. They are endangered because they have been hunted faster than they reproduce, their food supply has been diminished, and the land they once occupied has been taken over.) In terms of humans, if, say Dr. Lane cloned himself, then his clone would live on even after the original copy died (assuming the process works one day). Thus his personal extinction will have been delayed, but the extinction of the species as a whole has not. In fact, I think cloning would only put the species in danger because the making of new genetic mixes would cease. As said already, our survival (as a species not as individuals) depends greatly on the mixing of genes.



Post #5772
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:30 pm
Subject: Nigerian Muslim woman being stoned
MSNBC put out an article today about the Nigerian Muslim woman who is to be "buried up to the chest and stoned until all life leaves her body" as punishment for a sex sin. [http://www.msnbc.com/news/970413.asp]

Some Muslims say that this sentence is a misinterpretation of the Sharia law, while other Muslims say it is just. In addition to the cruel punishment, her sexual partner was exonerated and will not be punished. Using consilience, starting with theology and working down the ladder to chemistry, how can this belief be explained?

Also in reference to the Muslim religion, and using consilience, why do they practice "honor killings" — the punishment of death preformed by the father or brother of a woman who has had sex outside of marriage, including having been raped. I realize this is not a practice accepted by all who embrace the Muslim religion. But why, socially, psychologically, and biologically has this practice survived?



Post #5714
Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:05 pm
Subject: Re: "What you may not know about evolution"
I have a beef with the second website posted: http://www.icr.org/newsletters/btg/btgapr02.html.

For starters, the web-author says that "Evolution implies 'descent from a common ancestor' with all of life related, consisting of modified forms of very different things, such as a person descending from a fish." No. No. No. Evolution IS descent from a common ancestor. It is NOT fish turning into people, or the more popular misinterpretation of people used to be apes. That would the same as saying you and your brother are related via a common ancestor therefore you used to be your brother.

Secondly, the web-author says that macroevolution doesn't happen in the present. How do we know its not happening just because we can't see it? Macroevolution is a gradual process; it happens very slowly over millions of years. Expecting to see one species turn into another totally different species in a time span of a year, is NOT how evolution works. Just because none of us saw the effects of the Black Plague back in the 1300's, can we say it didn't happen? Not seeing macroevolution is also a poor arguement against the whole of evolution. [Note: This could be argued in terms way beyond my philosophic abilities.]

Thirdly, he says that evolution didn't happen in the past because we see no transitional forms. Addressing soley human evolution, I'm going to throw out a few "transitional forms" that are common ancestors to current day homo sapiens: Australopithecus boisei, Homo ergaster, Homo neanderthalensis, and so on. Here is a web site that may be of further interest with regards to these species:
http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html
It charts some of the transitions making up hominid ancestors.

Lastly, he says that "Of the two, creation is better supported by scientific observation...". What? Creation is static species, instantaneous formation of diversity, and most of all creation is faith in a supernatural creator. Scientific observation definitely does not support creation more than, or better than, evolution. In fact, looking through all the natural sciences (and their consilience) it beautifully explains evolution. Evolution is fully immersed into physics, chemistry, geology, and biology. Creation isn't used to explain anything in science and science as a whole rarely is used to explain creation.



Post #5648
Date: Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:53 am
Subject: Re: pg 34 Consilience
To expand on what CR said below ...
I took Evolutionary Biology (Bio312) last semester and this is the way the instructor explained the answer to your question. Evolution is a thoughtless force; it doesn't intentionally behave for our benefit doing things on purpose. For example, evolution did not "make" polar bears white because they live in the snow - that would be purpose. White polar bears simply survived better in the snow than pink polar bears did, so through evolution's mechanism of natural selection we no longer have pink polar bears - this is product.

The most difficult part in understanding evolution is when trying to apply it to humans.



Post #5631
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:42 am
Subject: Dreams find meaning
After reading chapter 5 (of Consilience) I thought it might be fun to look up meanings of dreams. Here is a link to a dream dictionary: http://www.petrix.com/dreams/.

Of course if you've already finished chapter 5, you know that the possibility exists that dreams don't actually have meanings but rather are our brains engaging in a function similar to when you tell your computer to "defragment". Its as if our eyes are cameras that take pictures every second of the day. Then when we go to sleep, our brain goes back over the pictures and decides which to keep and what order to store them.

Also in chapter 5, EO Wilson mentions Pablo Amaringo, the shaman and artist who fills every space in his paintings with detail. If you'd like to see some of his work visit http://www.egallery.com/walka101.html.



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