Posted 8-31-01
My note: That is because he wants the peace process to fail. He doesn't want peace. He wants all Jews dead and no country of Israel.
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Neither the son nor the holy ghost, By Yoel Marcus
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=69681&contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
9-1-01 - Arafat has twice paid a heavy price because he simply did not know when to apply the brakes. He has been banished from both Jordan and Lebanon. Now he is making the same old mistakes and he may find himself banished yet a third time.
1: Why only "many" of the saints, and not "all"? Were there ranks in this resurrection of the first sheaf, as you put it? What about those saints which were buried in other cities, far, and fairly far, away? Did they have to run or fly to get to the "holy city" in time before Jesus took them all to Heaven?
2: Do you think the word "graves" used here is referring to actual dirt and rocks graves, or do you think this could possibly be referring to the Hebrew use of the word grave, as in Hell/Underworld? I mean, what about those poor saints who were buried beyond the earthquake of verse 51, and their graves were not physically opened up enough for them to crawl out, etc.? Ok, I know, but if the graves didn't have to be open for them to get out, then why were they opened in the first place?
3: Since it appears that many of the saint's physical graves were opened immediately after Christ's death, did these graves just sit there open for three days/nights?
4: Who did the "many..saints" appear unto? There is no record or even side mention of this in any of the later writings, which I find amazing. I believe what it says, but I am very curious who these people were who saw these resurrected saints. I mean, we even have the record of the Transfiguration with the names of the special saints meeting with Jesus. So, certainly, I would assume that in this group after Jesus' resurrection, we would also find the big name saints who were asleep. David? Samuel? Jeremiah? Ezekiel? Noah? Abraham? Isaac? Jacob? Joseph? etc., etc. And, you would think that if any Jew alive were to see, say, Abraham or David or Solomon, they would just be beyond themselves. I can accept the fact that we may not have been given all the details for whatever reason, but I am curious.
5: Is the word "saints" here referring to Christians, Jews, or both?
6: Which "holy city", the earthly Jerusalem, or the heavenly Jerusalem? Certainly, the entire Bible if full of the word Jerusalem, so I am curious why it just didn't say "Jerusalem" if that's what was intended.
7: Sort of related to #5. These "many" went into the "holy city" and "appeared unto many". Does this mean they were recognized by those who saw them? I am sort of left scratching my head here. If George Washington or Abraham Lincoln appeared at my door, I might recognize them, but only because of the mass proliferation of portraits and photos. But if Moses or Elijah appeared at my door, I would have absolutely no clue, unless there was Divine knowledge, as in the Transfiguration episode with the Disciples. Also, it seems that they didn't appear to all, so would it be possible that they showed themselves, and thus appeared, to selected individuals of God's choice?
Studying the Bible is great! God bless you. Agape
Information given us on this is sketchy. It doesn't seem like graves were opened anywhere else but around Jerusalem. Only many, but not all, saints appeared in the city. I can only guess at why. I think it is because this was a sign, proof that he was the Son of God. No one else could bring all those dead saints out of their graves. Luke 7:22 says, "Then Jesus answering said unto them (that came to question him for John the Baptist), Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, THE DEAD ARE RAISED, to the poor the gospel is preached."
Mt. 27:51-53 says, "behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent (this much happened on Crucifixion Day); And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection (on Sunday), and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."
Why not all the saints? Heb. 11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
All of those saints in the sheaf were the 2nd rank in the First Resurrection, Jesus, The Seed, being the 1st. They were all in Paradise (Abraham's bosom, Tartarus, in the Earth). They were not really in their graves up to this point. I think the graves opening was a sign to the Jews in Jerusalem. If someone saw one of the departed saints in the holy city, they would be believed by others when they showed them the open grave. It was the proof they needed.
We don't have much information on this whole subject, but we are given a few hints. Eph 4:8 says, "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men." Jesus ascended to his Father on Resurrection Day. He took those in Paradise to Heaven at that time. Then he returned to Earth. The round trip took less than one day. Before he ascended, "Jesus saith unto her (Mary Magdalene), Touch me not; for I AM NOT YET ASCENDED to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:17). Later in the day, he could be touched. Psa 68:18 says, "Thou hast ASCENDED on high, thou hast led CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE: thou hast received gifts for men."
I think Deborah (bee, 'a prophetess,' Jdg 4:4) and Barak (thunderbolt, lightning, delivered Israel from Sisera) were part of the Firstfruit sheaf. Jdg 5:12 says, "Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam (pleasantness)."
> > 2: Do you think the word "graves" used here is referring to actual dirt and rocks graves, or do you think this could possibly be referring to the Hebrew use of the word grave, as in Hell/Underworld?
It means tomb. I take it literally.
> > 3: Since it appears that many of the saint's physical graves were opened immediately after Christ's death, did these graves just sit there open for three days/nights?
It looks like they did.
> > 4: Who did the "many..saints" appear unto?
I don't know.
> > 5: Is the word "saints" here referring to Christians, Jews, or both?
They would be Old Testament saints, not necessarily Jews. Adam wasn't a Jew. None were called Christian until later on at Antioch. Acts 11:26 says, "the disciples were called Christians FIRST in Antioch."
> > 6: Which "holy city", the earthly Jerusalem, or the heavenly Jerusalem? Certainly, the entire Bible if full of the word Jerusalem, so I am curious why it just didn't say "Jerusalem" if that's what was intended.
It refers to the earthly Jerusalem, where the graves were close by. The Bible is not so easy to understand that the wicked can figure these things out. It takes the indwelling Holy Spirit to figure some things out. None "of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10). That is why Isa. 28:13 says, "the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." We have to compare Scripture with Scripture to work the puzzles.
> > 7: Sort of related to #5. These "many" went into the "holy city" and "appeared unto many". Does this mean they were recognized by those who saw them? I am sort of left scratching my head here
Re: the Transfiguration, all that makes sense to me is that God put the knowledge that it was Moses and Elijah in their heads. They are not described as wearing name tags, although Christ "hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" in Rev. 19:16.
When the many went into Jerusalem, either they introduced themselves or God made it known who they were. Agape
I think Rev. 3:3 is talking to the church, about when Christ will appear at the Rapture. It is addressed to "the church in Sardis." V. 3 says, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." What will happen if we do watch? Turn it around. If we do watch, he will not come on us as a thief, and we will know what hour he will come upon us. The first time Christ comes to the church is the Pre-Trib Rapture.
When Jesus spoke of "as the days of Noe were," he was talking about the Rapture, when two would be in the field, one taken and the other left. Luke 12:46 shows what will happen. It says, "The lord of that servant (foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." The weeping ties it into the parable of the wedding feast in Mt. 22. A man without a wedding garment was cast outside the doors, where there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
At the Second Advent, "every eye shall see him" (Rev. 1:7). Not everyone will see him at the Rapture.
The time of Jacob's trouble is one literal day. Dan. 12:1,2 says, "at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERY ONE THAT SHALL BE FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." That day is the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, on the Day of God's Wrath, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5). Agape
Is there any good reason why this verse could not be fulfilled by an event such as the scenario below?
Taking a quick look at just Rev. 8:8, it might seem possible. Taking a closer look at that and surrounding verses, it doesn't seem possible to me. The first thing that doesn't fit is "the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died." The Atlantic Ocean is an awfully big body of water to have one third of it turn to blood and one third of the life in the sea die (Rev. 8:8,9). Later on, at the second vial, we find that "every living soul died in the sea" (Rev. 16:3). Can you imagine any volcano doing that much damage to the entire Atlantic Ocean? I can't.
However, I can imagine the Mediterranean Sea becoming as a dead sea from an asteroid impact. Zeph. 2:1-5 says, " Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (raptured to Heaven) in the day of the LORD's anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod AT THE NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. WOE UNTO THE INHABITANTS OF THE SEA COAST, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant." The cities mentioned are on the Mediterranean coast.
Another larger piece of the asteroid destroys Babylon. Rev. 8:10 says, "the third angel sounded, and THERE FELL A GREAT STAR FROM HEAVEN, BURNING AS IT WERE A LAMP, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of water." Chances are good that the Sword of the Lord is a binary asteroid that breaks apart at the Roche Limit, about 11,000 miles out. Stones weighing around 100 pounds will also fall (Rev. 16:21).
There will be a world-wide earthquake in which every wall will fall (Eze. 38:20), and the cities of the nations will fall (Rev. 16:19). Has any volcano ever caused such far reaching disaster? Not that I know of. Agape
Comet Petriew is slowly gliding between the constellations Taurus and Gemini, which appear in the eastern sky before dawn.
Look how Saturn, Jupiter and Venus line up too. Saturn is still a morning star. Do you happen to know the date this fall when Saturn becomes an evening star? Since Rev. 2:28 says, "I will give him the morning star," it seems more likely for the Rapture to take place when it is a morning star. Agape
Saturn is a morning star now, but it will become an evening star this fall, I think in early November. On a chart I have for 2000, it looks like it was about the 10th. The reason I would like to know the exact date is because Nov. 3 is Cheshvan 17, when Noah went in the Ark and the Lord closed the door. I think the Rapture is most likely when Saturn is a morning star. At any rate, I agree that it can't be too far off. Agape
But there are, in addition, certain exalted moments when the spirit that fills all hearts on the Days of Awe expands and religious feelings are raised to the highest pitch. Such an exalted moment comes at the blowing of the shofar. Psalm 47 is recited seven times; then all quiets down. The hearts of the worshipers beat fast; and when the trumpeter calls out, “Blessed be,” the beginning of the benediction, a tremor of awe and fear passes through the congregation.
"Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples! Shout to God with the voices of triumph! . . . God has gone up with a shout, the Lord with the sound of a trumpet. Sing praises to God, sing praises!" – Psalm 47:1-6 NKJV
I don't know if there is anyting new here or not. The article was interesting. Agape
> > Rosh Hashanah: Feast of Trumpets in the Time of Christ (John Hagee)
http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=15742&rtn=/articles.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1
> > Rosh Hashanah is known in the Bible as Yom Teruah, the Day of the Awakening Blast.
This is well named. I think it is the day the asteroid pieces impact Earth, and the noise is heard around the world. Jer. 25:29-31 says, "I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for A SWORD UPON ALL THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH, saith the LORD of hosts. Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. A NOISE SHALL COME EVEN TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD."
This is the Sword of the Lord. Jer. 12:12 says, "The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the SWORD OF THE LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace."
It is not the day of the Second Advent. Isa. 31:4,5 says, "so shall the LORD of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6) come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof. As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and PASSING OVER he will preserve it." It is the day of the Sign of the Son of Man (Mt. 24:30), 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13).
> > Ezekiel 38 - Bill Koenig
http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=15567&rtn=/articles.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1
> > Ezekiel 38:14 (NIV)—"Therefore, son of man. prophesy and say to Gog: This is what the Sovereign Lord says in that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it?"
> > Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke of a time of peace when he was in office, yet many prophecy people don’t believe this is the peace spoken of in Ezekiel. That type of peace seems to be the peace that would come with a formal agreement between the Israelis and the Arabs either after a major and decisive victory or after a world leader comes with a plan to which both sides would agree.
> > So in all likelihood, the Gog and Magog war will occur in Israel after the Daniel 9:27 treaty is manifested.
I agree that it will follow the seven-year treaty.
> > Biblical scholars are divided into three predominant scenarios about the timing of Gog and Magog war. In addition, the second group has four schools of thought about the timing of when this event would occur during the seven-year tribulation period.
> > Scenario 1: This group believes the war happens before the Daniel 9:27 treaty is confirmed and that it would be the catalyst for the treaty’s approval. However, in this scenario, there is not really the time of peace (safety) in Israel before the Gog and Magog war spoken about in Ezekiel 38:14. Some in this group believe that there has already been peace in Israel and that the Gog and Magog war could break out at any time.
> > Scenario 2: This group believes there has not been a time of peace (safety) as spoken of in Ezekiel 38:14. This time of peace and safety likely would come only after the confirmation of the Daniel 9:27 agreement.
> > Some of this group believe Gog and Magog will happen in the first year or two of the final seven-year Tribulation period. Others believe it will take place toward the end of the first three and one-half years. Still others believe it will happen in the middle of the final three and one-half years, while a final group believe it will occur toward the latter half of the seven-year period, just before Armageddon.
> > Scenario 3: This very small third group believes that the Gog and Magog war is that mentioned in Revelation 20:8, taking place after Christ’s thousand-year reign in the New Jerusalem.
I can't see why there are so many interpretations of when Gog's united nations' army will attack Israel. I keep running into things on the Internet about this war being right away, now, or as the Tribulation begins. To me, Eze. 38 is so plain. It is after Israel is back in the land and when "they shall dwell safely all of them" (v. 8). That is not today by any stretch of the imagination. Gog says, "I will go up to the land of UNWALLED VILLAGES; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land" (v. 11). Right now, Israel is thinking about building more walls, so this war isn't right away. The treaty will change their wall building.
True, it is in the latter days (Eze. 38:16), and we are near the end of this age, but it is near the end of the Tribulation. It is at the end of this age, when the millennial Day of the Lord begins. That is 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13). I think it will happen on the Feast of Trumpets in 2007.
Eze. 18-21 tells what will happen, "at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy (because the False Prophet is head of the UR) and in the FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken (God's wrath isn't going to come before the False Prophet begins his reign Mid-Trib), Surely in THAT DAY (Day of God's Wrath, 1st day of the Millennium) there shall be a great SHAKING IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL(the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea, Zeph. 2:4,5); So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE AT MY PRESENCE (paneh, face, the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I will call for a SWORD (the Sword of the Lord, the 'flaming sword,' Gen. 3:24, an asteroid) against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD." Verse 23 ends the chapter with "Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES of many nations (the Sign of the Son of Man), and they shall KNOW that I am the LORD."
Eze. 39:22 says, "So the house of Israel shall KNOW that I am the LORD their God FROM THAT DAY AND FORWARD." This is when all Israel is saved in a day (Isa. 66:8).
Jer. 12:12 says, "The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the SWORD OF THE LORD SHALL DEVOUR FROM THE ONE END OF THE LAND EVEN TO THE OTHER END OF THE LAND: no flesh shall have peace." I can't see any way that this could happen before the Day of God's Wrath 7 months before the Second Coming. Eze. 39:11-13 says, "it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (2nd Advent), saith the Lord GOD."
> > The Feast of Trumpets falls near the end of a special forty-day season, Teshuvah, beginning on the first day of Elul and ending with Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The Hebrew word Teshuvah means to “return or repent,” and the message of the season is clear: Repent before the Feast of Trumpets. Don’t wait, or you will find yourself unprepared to stand before God. > > That message is still valid today, my friends. Over the years, rabbinic tradition began to identify Rosh Hashana as Yom Hadin, or Judgment Day.
I agree that this is both the Day of God's Wrath and the Judgment Seat of Christ. It is also Coronation Day, the first day of Christ's millennial kingdom. Rev. 11:17-19 says, "We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art (on 1st day of his kingdom), and wast (at 1st Advent), and art to come (at 2nd Advent, still 7 months future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry (Gog's army attacking), and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
I think there were two stone tablets in the Ark for a good reason. There will be 2 stoney asteroids dumped on Earth to wipe out those that did not obey the Law and did not take advantage of the offer Christ presented them with.
> > "God has GONE UP with a shout, the Lord with the sound of a trumpet. Sing praises to God"
The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints is on that Feast of Trumpets. Agape
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Updated 8-31-01