Pro and Con 848

Posted 12-19-01

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go to the World section of cnn.com, and read the article "Religious Leaders Meet on Terror." More steps toward the one-world, united religion.

Looking forward to seeing you face to face in glory, and being bodily in the presence of our precious Savior and Lord, Jesus.

When I opened the door last night, to let my dog outside, I looked up. The air was crisp and fresh, and the sky was clear with very vivid clouds. The beautiful constellation Cassiopeia was framed by the clouds, and was breathtaking! I thanked the Lord that He will take us off this earth, in a journey that the unbelievers will think impossible. Bless you and family. Love

My reply

Thanks. Watch Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew.

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Religious leaders meet on terror
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/12/19/interfaith.conference/index.html
12-19-01 - BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- Christian, Muslim and Jewish leaders are meeting in Brussels for the first major attempt since September 11 to try to curb conflicts fought in the name of religion.

More than 80 religious representatives are at the conference chaired by the head of the Orthodox religions, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, and Romano Prodi, President of the European Commission.

Their stated aim is to forge new means to ensure that "no individual or organisation succeeds ever again to use religion to instigate violence and terrorism."

Attending the Wednesday and Thursday seminar are Orthodox church leaders, two Cardinals, Jewish leaders, senior Imams and Muftis plus leaders from moderate Muslim states.

President George W. Bush sent a message to the gathering "The Peace of God in the World -- Towards Peaceful Co-Existence and Collaboration between Monotheistic Religions."

He said the theme provided "an extraordinary opportunity to address the importance of religious tolerance."

"Interfaith meetings such as this help connect meetings of all faiths while fostering greater understanding of the common beliefs we share as peace-loving people," he said.

The 80 delegates are focusing on religion as the backdrop to recent conflicts from ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia to the war in Afghanistan.

They are expected to agree an "Announcement of Principles" condemning the abuse of religion to justify violent acts.

They will also call on the international community to provide all the necessary political, economic and humanitarian assistance to rebuild Afghanistan.

An appeal is also due to be made to politicians and the media "to avoid spreading falsehood by associating, either directly or indirectly, one group or religion with the irreligious acts of the few."

Patriarch Bartholomew said before the meeting: "It is incumbent upon the enlightened leadership of the three religions to express with one voice once again the desire of God for peaceful co-existence among peoples."

To bring world peace, he said, the voice of religion was "sharper than any knife" and it was important to show that religious leaders stood united.

At the end of the two-day conference the delegates hope to adopt an action plan calling for regular meetings between religious leaders, seminars for policy-makers, teachers and journalists and inter-faith and cross-cultural youth initiatives.

They also hope to establish a secretariat for the cross-religious body at the liaison office of the Orthodox Church to the EU in Brussels.

Others at the seminar included EU Commissioner Anna Diamantopolou (Social Affairs).

Religious leaders in Brussels include Cardinal Kasper, President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity, Rev. Konrad Raiser, Secretary General of the World Council of Churches, Sheikh Ahmed Kuftaro, Grand Mufti of Syria, and France's Chief Rabbi Rene-Samuel Sirat.
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http://www.debka.com/
In Ramallah, Arafat Said Tuesday, Two Days After Publicly Banning Suicide Attacks:
"I Would Sacrifice 70 Martyrs to Kill One Israeli" He Added: "A Conspiracy Brought the Jews to Palestine" Israeli Intelligence Chief Malka Reports Unprecedented Profusion of Terror Alerts Including Suicide Attacks and Assassinations of Prominent Figures "Arafat Does Not Lift a Finger for Prevention...
US Investigation Traces Links Between Palestinian Authority’s Central Bank and Hamas-Jihad Islami Funds
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Israel may be winning, by Daniel Pipes, NY Post 12-17-01 http://www.danielpipes.org/articles/article.php?id=91
...Should Yasser Arafat exit the political scene, that goal will become even more remote. The Palestinian Authority could well split in two, for it consists of two geographically separate regions (the West Bank and Gaza), each dominated by a strongman (respectively, Jibril Rajoub and Mohammed Dahlan).

If these toughs emerge as rulers of their areas, as seems likely, the Palestinian national movement will be fractured as never before, and the battle against Zionism will become yet more difficult.

For these reasons, a rapid decline of Palestinian will appears likely, as has happened several times before (in 1939, 1949, 1967, 1991) - though this one could well be more severe.

There is good news here: If Israelis can sustain their recent sense of common purpose and resolve, Palestinians may give up - perhaps permanently - on their goal of destroying Israel.

And should that happen, an end to the century-long Palestinian-Israeli conflict could finally be in sight.
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Pope's Call for 'Muslim Solidarity' Needs Bible Study - Bill Koenig, 12-14-01
http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=21521&rtn=/articles.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1
Note from Bill:
The following Reuters article reported Friday that Pope John Paul II has called on the world’s Roman Catholics to fast for world peace "in solidarity with Muslims."

This unprecedented proclamation was timed to coincide with the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan and to promote “greater understanding between Catholics and Muslims.”

May I respectfully suggest that the Pope open his Bible and familiarize himself with God’s Word about the covenant land of Israel and what happens to those who come against Israel (Genesis 12:3). He should also re-visit what the Bible says about spirits who do not acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 4:2-3).

And may I recommend also that the Pope’s Bible Study include a serious look at what God’s Word says about the future of Jerusalem (Zechariah, chapters 12-14) and at other Scriptures pertaining to the times in which we live.

The Pope is leading his church into a collision course with our Lord.
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Anti-Christ Controlled Media, by David Sereda
http://www.rense.com/general18/ac.htm
12-16-01 ...apparitions on the Virgin Mary in Zeitun, Egypt in the late 1960s seen by millions of people and recorded and photographed. The story made a small article in the back pages of the New York Times.

These same appartions started again in Assiut, Egypt in August of 2000 (www.zeitun.org) revealing that Mary and Jesus Christ are praying for Peace in the Middle East and for Peace between these warfaring religions of Judaeism, Christianity and Islam.

My Note

I can't see Jesus Christ praying for "Peace between these warfaring religions of Judaeism, Christianity and Islam." Acts 4:12 says, "There is salvation in none other (than 'the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,' v. 10), for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved!" Is Jesus Christ for Judaism when they have turned their backs on him? Is he for Islam when they say that he was no more than a prophet? I don't think so. II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." Neither Judaism nor Islam accept this.
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Vatican Would Mediate Mideast Talks, Aide Says
http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=21527&rtn=/articles.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1
VATICAN CITY, DEC. 13, 2001 (Zenit.org).- The Holy See will make every possible effort to bring to an end the conflict in the Middle East, including the role of mediation, if the parties involved request it.

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You may find this link interesting, particularly the section delineating Christ's fulfilled prophecies and the downloads for centuries worth of early church fathers' writings. Apparitions? Yes, I think they're real, but I don't think they have anything to do with Mary....Satanic angelic impersonations masquerading.
http://www.zeitun-eg.org/

My sister, afflicted with advanced MS and trapped within Mormonism, needs prayer ... please. Agape

My reply

I prayed for your sister. I know others will.

I don't accept the Mary apparitions as being from God, either. I wonder if "Jezebel" in Rev. 2:20 will turn out to be an apparition. Jezebel means unmarried, and this is the church about which Jesus said, "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (join) with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds." I think this joining is like the United Religions, putting all the world's different religions into one organization, headed up by the Pope.

In Rev. 18:4, we see the call going out at the 2nd Rapture, just before the Wrath of God falls on the world church. It says, "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Agape

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Re: II Thess.2;3
I have often seen references to your work and website. I would like to ask you for any insight of the scripture II Thess. 2:3 you might have.

I have a difficult time reconciling this with a pre-trib rapture. It would help enormously if you could explain how you see it. My understanding is quite literal. The anti-Christ must be revealed before we are raptured. Thank you. (I am hoping for a pre-trib rapture but it seems to me that we are in for the tribulation, or at least part of it.) In Him

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My understanding of II Thess. 2:1-8 emerged when I looked up the original words and compared different translations. I'll try to show you what I mean. For reference, here is the KJV.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (harpazo, departure) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed."

In v. 1, Paul speaks as "we" (Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus,1:1), three that will be included in the Pre-Trib Rapture, "OUR gathering together unto him." In v. 2, the KJV has "day of Christ." Almost all major manuscripts have day of the LORD, and that is the only thing that makes sense. The Rapture will come before the millennial Day of the Lord begins at the end of the shortened Tribulation. The ISV says, "not to be so quickly upset or alarmed when someone claims that we said either by some spirit, conversation, or letter that the DAY OF THE LORD has already come."

There are 2 days of Christ, also called the days of the Son of Man, of which there are 2. Luke 17:22 mentions "ONE of the DAYS of the Son of man." That is the 1st of the 2 Raptures. Luke 17:25 says, "as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the DAYS of the Son of man." The Pre-Trib Rapture is as the days of Noah, when rain fell that same day. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is as the days of Lot, when fire fell from Heaven "the same day" (Luke 17:29).

The wise-virgin Bride of Christ will be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture at the same time that Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus are caught up. Paul called it "OUR gathering together unto him in 2:1.

2Th 2:3-8 (WEB, World English Bible) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it (the millennial Day of the Lord) will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE comes first (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture comes first), and the man of sin (the False Prophet) is revealed, the son of destruction (perdition), 4 he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, (Mid-Trib) setting himself up as God. 5 Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? 6 Now you know what (the Holy Spirit) is RESTRAINING HIM, to the end that he may be REVEALED IN HIS OWN SEASON (the Tribulation, which is not our season). 7 For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one (the Holy Spirit in the salt of the Earth) who restrains NOW (before the Tribulation), until he is taken out of the way" (when the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place). After THE DEPARTURE, the False Prophet will be revealed when he confirms the covenant of Dan. 9:27 as the 70th week of Daniel begins. We can see this in Rev. 17.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is at the Rapture. He will be revealed to us as in the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1. The whole book is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Rev. 17 is a parenthetic section. We have to look for match marks to see where it belongs in the timeline. It is just after the Rapture, for "they that ARE with him (the Lord) are called (to become saved), AND CHOSEN (at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and faithful" (why they were chosen to be the Bride of Christ). Right after the Rapture, there "are ten kings, which HAVE RECEIVED NO KINGDOM AS YET."

If they have no kingdom as yet, the Tribulation has not started yet. Rev. 13:1 is at the beginning of the Tribulation, and all ten horns are wearing crowns. Therefore, the Rapture precedes the beginning of the Tribulation.

This is easy to see in Rev. 4. John is one of the 24 elders seated on their thrones right after he was caught up to Heaven when the Lord said, "Come up hither" in v. 1. The other 23 elders in 4:4 are caught up at the same time that John is--at the same time that "Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus" (II Thess. 1:1) are caught up. Paul is caught up when John is caught up, and Silvanus and Timotheus are caught up when Paul is caught up. "

"And these all (Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Rahab, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, David and Samuel, Heb. 11:4-32), having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that THEY WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT." (Heb 11:40 ). All these are part of the Pre-Trib Rapture. All these are part of the saints from every nation caught up at the 1st Rapture.

All the saints "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" of 5:9 are caught up when John, Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus, Abel, ENOCH, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Rahab, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, David and Samuel are caught up. They are all singing the new song in Heaven in Rev. 5:9, before the Tribulation starts when the first seal is broken in Rev. 6. All these saints are in Heaven to see Christ receive the seven-sealed Title Deed of the Earth, before the first seal on it can be broken.

Of these, Enoch "was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Heb. 11:5). Even though Enoch was caught up to Heaven, it seems that he too must wait to get his resurrection body at the 1st Rapture with the rest of these Old Testament saints. Agape

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I am trying again. I got an empty reply the last time. Thanks

Shalom. I hope this finds you and Ed in good health. I thank God that I have been privileged to have been acquainted with your work these last few years. Your P&C's never fail to educate and comfort me. I just wish that I had been as dedicated to study as you have been. I praise God for the gift that he has given us through you. I am as hopeful today as I was in 1998. I pray for our Lord's return. Hanukkah would seam to be an appropriate time with the tie in with the lamps mentioned in the parable of the 10 virgins.

Unfortunately, I have difficulty sharing with others regarding the two raptures. Most people that I talk with still hold to the belief the there is but one rapture. That all saved Christians will go at that time, as well as God's Spirit. I don't understand how they can expect to have any evangelism going on during the tribulation if God's Spirit is not available to the Tribulation Saints. I have met people who are so entrenched that I have to tell them that I hope they are right, but that in case they are not, I'll make sure that I am as full of the Holy Spirit as I can possibly be. I try to get them to visit your site. I am not sure if they do or not. I would sure like to find some like minded believers.

I have a question regarding the millennial reign. Specifically, where will we be, here or on the new earth?

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

Sorry, but an empty reply with an attachment probably was the Goner virus. I don't send or open attachments. I must have clicked on it to select it to delete it. That worked fine with Sir Cam, but Goner drops a file into the Temporary Internet Folder when clicked on. I am now using Symantec's Norton Antivirus 2002 instead of AVG. Norton checks outgoing and incoming mail before I click on anything. I had Symantec's SAM for the Mac, but not NORTON for the PC until now.

Ed and I are ok. His legs are weak and he can barely get himself up from his recliner or out of the car, but he is fine otherwise.

< < Hanukkah would seam to be an appropriate time with the tie in with the lamps mentioned in the parable of the 10 virgins.

It could, but there still is Song of Solomon 2:10-14 that suggests spring to me. We will have to wait and see. Events in Israel make the Rapture seem close. The Lord is working all things together for good for those that love him. Believers have his promise in Luke 21:33-36 to hang on to. Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so THAT DAY (of the Rapture) come upon YOU unawares. For as a snare (trap) shall it come on all THEM that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that YE may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Verse 25 mentions "signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (lit., constellations); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (united nations, Rev. 17:15) and the waves (nations) roaring." Then verses 28-32 say, "when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption (apolutrosis, deliverance) draweth nigh." The ISV says, "Now when these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, for your DELIVERANCE is near." We have already had signs in the Sun, Moon and constellations, so the Rapture is near.

> > I have a question regarding the millennial reign. Specifically, where will we be, here or on the new earth?

We will all return with Christ. Zech. 14:5 says, "the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." We get to be in Heaven about 7 years, the Tribulation saints 7 months, before we all return.

Since we come with Christ, we seem to be coming to the Earth that has been damaged by the asteroid impacts on the Day of God's Wrath. I think the atmospheric heavens and the Earth will be refreshed by Christ. It may be much like he did in Genesis and could take one week. Whether right away or a little later on, I don't know, but I expect it soon after his return. It looks like we will be on the damaged Earth and also on the refreshed Earth. I expect to help in setting up the millennial government, then go back to our heavenly home. We will be able to travel back and forth after that.

During our stay on Earth, Armageddon will be fought. It is Christ's forces against Satan's. Bob Thieme thinks each of us will bump one demon. He may be right. He says it is easier to see in the original languages than in our translations. I have long wondered if the saved of mankind will replace the fallen angels in the government of God. We should know before too long.

If you want people that believe in 2 Raptures to correspond with you, let me know, and I'll post your e-mail address. Agape

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Re: book of Jasher
after reading from the book of Jasher on your site, the quote below stood out to me for some reason, as pertaining to the 'cloning' situation of today!! May God continue to richly bless you.

"the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord;"

My reply

I thought of that too. There is a pretty good parallel there. I think trying to clone a human being would REALLY PROVOKE THE LORD. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that. Agape

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Which God is true? The God of the Bible, or the "God" (Allah) of the Koran?

http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=21737&rtn=/index.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1

Is Allah the Same God as the Christian God, by Joseph Clem

My reply

The God of the Bible is the only true God.

Allah was the name of the moon god, and the symbol of the crescent moon can be seen in prominent places in Islamic lands yet today.

There are 5 pillars of Islam, rituals that are required. (1) pronouncing their confession of faith, "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet" Muslims also are to express their belief in the Koran/Qur'an, angels and the last day.
(2) performing 5 daily prayers
(3) fasting during daylight hours during the 9th month, Ramada
(4) paying the alms tax
(5) making a pilgrimage to Mecca, where a black stone is housed

There is nothing there by which a person can be saved. Their last day is going to be a sad one. They had a so-called prophet, but Muhammad lived a normal man's lifetime, died, and was not resurrected. He wrote the Koran in different stages, and the chapters do not always agree with each other. That makes me wonder if they have even read it. Surely if they studied it, they would notice the discrepancies.

In his article, Is Allah the Same God as the Christian God, Joseph Clem wrote:
"But Muslims
(1) do not believe Jesus was crucified on a cross,
(2) do not believe Jesus died on that cross, and
(3) do not believe Jesus was resurrected after 3 days by God.

"Muslims also do not believe
(4) that Jesus is the only way to God, or
(5) that God is Jesus' heavenly Father, or
(6) that Jesus is coequal with God - all of which Jesus claimed as being true.

"So I ask again, how can Allah be the same God as the Christian God?"

He can't be, not by a long shot. In all the world, there is only one person that died, was resurrected and ascended to Heaven as proof that he is the Saviour of all mankind. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

II Cor. 5:19 says it like it is, "God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD unto himself." Jesus said it like it is, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30). He also said, "I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world....ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins...they understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he...he that sent me is with me" (John 8:23-28).

This God man is like no other--ever. "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not" (John 1:10). The Muslims know him not.

These misguided people do not have a hope of being good enough to make it to Heaven. " Rom 3:23 tells it plainly: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (I John 5:1). Verse 12 says, "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." It is that simple. Verse 5 is clear. It says, "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

If Allah was God, and he isn't, the Muslims would still be out of luck. I John 2:23 says, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." The Muslims do not believe in the trinity either.

Those of the Islamic faith have put their faith in the wrong god, and he will let them down. The suicide bombers expect to go instantly to Paradise where lots of virgins await them. As soon as their bodies die, they know their error, but sadly, it is too late for them. Man only gets one lifetime to get it right, and after that the judgment. Heb 9:27 said, "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."

And guess what, the one that they do not accept as their Saviour will judge them. John 5:22 says, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son." 2Co 5:10 says, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." Agape

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Re: DON'T GIVE UP!!!!!!
SHERRY
The LORD judt spoke to my spirit and said I would see you soon....since I am not going north anytime soon....HE MUST HAVE MEANT THE RAPTURE!

My reply

Thanks for sending a Cc to me. From watching world events, it sure seems to be soon. In Mat 24:6, Jesus said, "ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet." In verses 12 and 13, Jesus said, "because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

No matter what happens or doesn't happen to try men's souls, we have to endure unto the end and be overcomers. We have to hang on to our blessed hope. We have to obey Jesus when he said, "take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare (trap) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Agape

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Re: DON'T GIVE UP
AMEN! Its closer than you think...please be praying to be counted worthy, and ALWAYS watch....its near... Mark Visit The Blessed Hope & Prophecy News Forum http://pub28.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=2340524032

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