Posted 3-2-02
Also for the sake of information: The name of God IS NOT God, nor is it YHVH. Adonai or Yod-Yod hand-hand, because of mitzvot to not take the full name of God in vain usage - wherein even writing on stone would ultimately fade - thus constituting vain usage -, been substituted in speaking and in reading aloud for God's personal name, the four Hebrew letters yod-heh-vav-heh, variously written in English as "YHVH," (most often rendered "Lord" in translation) There is no letter "J", "c" or "w" in Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek or Latin. "Yehovah" and "Jehovah." The Talmud teaches that the earliest Hebrew sages (Pesachim 50a) made it a requirement not to write or pronounce the full 72 Hebrew lettered name of God, but instead employ the Tetragrammaton - YHVH - (the word means the "four-letter name" of God THE LORD), the tetragrammation represents Father, Son and Ruach HaKodesh and this remains the rule in most modern messianic Jewish settings.
We are also assured that Yeshua is certainly the Hebrew for 2 reasons, The first letter aleph was used only as that or last, never second or third etc in Hebrew text, even till today. Secondly the name Yeshua as is seen in post-crucifixion Hebraic literature: A literal understanding of the phrase, "I made your name known," became the theme of the scurrilous Toledot-Yeshu, the 6th-century A.D. anti-gospel (see Mt 1:18) which said that the offense "Yeshu" committed that earned him the death penalty for blasphemy was the unauthorized use of the "72-letter name" of God to perform magic. The 5th-6th century Jewish anti-Gospel, Toledot-Yeshu, is clearer about this: it presents "Yeshu"; In modern Hebrew Yeshua's name is pronounced and written "Yeshu" , which was the ancient pronunciation in the Galil. However, reflecting two thousand years of conflict between the Church and the Synagogue, it is also an acronym for Yimach sh'mo v'zikhrono meaning derogatorily "May his name and memory be blotted out"). The above literary references guarantee that the Hebrew name of Jesus is only Yeshua and no other "sacred name cult" variant.
We in Biblical tractates that a person's name describes their character, essence, nature and or mission; now regard Yeshua as He said "it is finished": The inscription on the plaque nailed to the cross: "Jesus of Narazeth and King of the Jews"; It "works" better in Hebrew- Yeshua Hanazaret Vemelek Hayehudim. Putting the capitalized letters together we get: YHVH - the name associated with the Father; but in reality depicting the tetragrammation - the 4 letter abbreviation- symbolic of the Deity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. While speaking to the SanHedrin Jesus said: John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up (crucified) the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he,". Thus we can understand two things Jesus bearing the name YHVH proves His Divinity and being one with the Father and now why the SanHedrin wanted so very much to have the words on the plaque changed.
Y'varechecha Adonai v'yishim'rechecha, Ya'ayr Adonai panav alecha v'chunecha, Yisa Adonai panav alecha, v'yasaym l'cha shalom. The Lord bless you and keep you, The Lord make His Face to shine upon you, and be gracious unto you. The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace. BaShem Yeshua Mashikenu.
> > Rich, the Antagonist is in error, in insisting that the Hebrew "almah" means maiden.
Even before the scriptures were written, Virgin has been practically shouted from the skies too. In the gospel in the stars known to every nation, there is no doubt that Virgo is a virgin who has a child. In the course of time, her son, the seed of the woman, ends up as Leo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the king.
Gen. 3:15 (Stone Ed.) says, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and HER OFFSPRING (zera, seed, child). He will pound your head, and you will bite his heel." It is only her seed, not her's plus another's. That has been written down, at least since Moses went up on Mt. Sinai, to correct any thoughts to the contrary.
> > The Talmud teaches that the earliest Hebrew sages (Pesachim 50a) made it a requirement not to write or pronounce the full 72 Hebrew lettered name of God, but instead employ the Tetragrammaton - YHVH...
> > "Yeshu" , which was the ancient pronunciation in the Galil. However, reflecting two thousand years of conflict between the Church and the Synagogue, it is also an acronym for Yimach sh'mo v'zikhrono meaning derogatorily "May his name and memory be blotted out"
So in effect, the early Hebrew sages blotted out his name, and as close as we can come is YHVH?
> > the Hebrew name of Jesus is only Yeshua and no other "sacred name cult" variant
If I understand you correctly, it seems that the best answers available to Prov. 30:4's questions ("what is his name, and what is his son's name") would be YHVH and Yeshua.
> > "Jesus of Narazeth and King of the Jews"; It "works" better in Hebrew- Yeshua Hanazaret Vemelek Hayehudim. Putting the capitalized letters together we get: YHVH - the name associated with the Father; but in reality depicting the tetragrammation - the 4 letter abbreviation- symbolic of the Deity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Thanks. I did'nt know this. It seems to be an important sign that has been missed by many.
> > Jesus bearing the name YHVH proves His Divinity and being one with the Father and now why the SanHedrin wanted so very much to have the words on the plaque changed.
It seems to show that they recognized the secondary meaning. That was probably the last thing they wanted up there. Shalom and agape
...Has anyone ever asked WHY the graves of some of the saints were opened at the exact time of the Crucifixion? For what purpose? They went into Jerusalem and appeared to many. What could they do? They could not testify that Jesus was risen from the dead since he had not yet been resurrected.
I believe this was to show us, that there will be a resurrection to GLORY on the day of Passover, the Day of Redemption to which we are now sealed according to Ephesians 4:30. What other day could be called "The Day of Redemption?"...
Don't forget that these saints went into Jerusalem after Jesus was resurrected. Christ is the Firstfruit, the seed of the woman (Gen. 3:15). The rest of the Firstfruit sheaf followed Christ's resurrection on the Feast of Firstfruits. They "came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city, and appeared to many"
God bless you and give you the strength to continue your ministry until His soon return agape, Gunter
http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_488_1.asp
If you are not born of a Jewish mother, you can convert but only Orthodox Conversions are recognized in Israel (although the secular government recently ruled that Conservatives and Reform converts are to be considered Jews).
So if you are a Jew and believe in Jesus, you are sinning and need to make teshuvah. If you are not a Jew and didn't convert Orthodox, your conversion doesn't count in the eyes of God, or the Rabbis.
Dan. 9:25,26 (Stone Ed.) says, "Know and comprehend: From the emergence of the word to return and to build Jerusalem until the ANOINTMENT OF THE PRINCE will be seven septets, and for sixty-two septets it will be rebuilt, street and moat, but in troubled times. Then, after the sixty-two septets, THE ANOINTED ONE (THE MASHIACH) WILL BE CUT OFF (karath, killed)." 483 - 454 (BCE) + 1 (no zero year) = 30 CE/AD, when the Mashiach was killed, resurrected and ascended to Heaven. He was our Passover (yours and mine), our Lamb of God, the propitiation for our sins. By his stripes, we are healed.
If you don't believe this, I feel sorry for what you will have to go through. The 70th week of Daniel is fast approaching. It will be the 5th cycle of discipline for Israel (Lev. 26:28), the worst 7 years since man was upon the Earth. Why? Hasn't Israel suffered enough? Evidently not, she is not showing enough fruit now to stop the discipline.
Israel's decrees and ordinances when she entered the Promised Land were either/or. If Israel obeyed God, she would receive the blessing put on Mt. Gerizim. If she did not obey God, she would receive the curse put on Mt. Ebal (meaning stony). She has been on stony Mt. Ebal a long time. I'd think she would recognize cursing and turn around, but she is obstinate and stony hearted, according to God. If I remember right, the Lord told Ezekiel that Israel would not pay attention to him (Ezekiel), because they would not pay attention to him (the Lord). It looks like they will have to drink the dregs before they will turn around. My questions are, why will ye die, O house of Israel? Do you like the cursing better than the blessing?
De. 11:22-25 (Stone Ed.) says, "For if you will observe this entire commandment that I command you, to perform it, to love HASHEM (YHVH), your God, to walk in all His ways and to cleave to Him, HASHEM (YHVH) will drive out all these nations from before you, and you will drive out greater and mightier nations than yourselves. Every place where the sole of your foot will tread shall be yours -- from the Wilderness and the Lebanon, from the river, the Euphrates River, until the Western Sea shall be your boundary. NO MAN WILL STAND UP AGAINST YOU; HASHEM (YHVH), your God, will set your terror and fear on the entire face of the earth where you will tread, as He spoke to you."
So, why is Israel, the chosen people, the favored nation, facing escalating terrorism in the land today? Why did she give away the rights over the temple area when God had given it back to her? Why is she even considering giving away more of her land? Is it that she does not trust God to keep his part of the bargain? He will keep his promises either way. They can have blessing or cursing. It is up to them.
Eze. 33:11 (Stone Ed.) says, "Repent, repent from your evil ways! Why should you die, O House of Israel?" I like the way the KJV puts it. It says, "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
In 30 CE, Israel was given 40 years of testing and probation (Eze. 4:6). She failed the test and was punished at the end of that 40 years -- in 70 CE. What was her test? to accept her Mashiach. As a nation, she failed. Is she going to replay this again? She lost the temple in 70 CE.
She regained the temple area in 1967's Six-Day War. 1967 + 40 = 2007. Do you think she is passing her test this time around? Not yet, but she will in the end. However, she has to do it the hard way. When she is attacked by Gog's army (Eze. 38), she will not be able to help herself any longer. There will be nowhere to turn for help but to the Lord, and he will fight for them. He has waited a long time to bring this about. It is a good thing he is patient. If it were up to man, we would all have been snuffed a long time ago. Agape
The Trinity can be seen in Isa. 48:12-18. Verses 12 and 13 (Stone Ed.) say, "Listen to ME, O Jacob, and Israel, as he was called by ME (Gen. 32:28-30): I AM HE; I am the FIRST (YHVH king of Israel, the Pre-incarnate Christ), ALSO I am the LAST (the Lord Jesus Christ, YHVH of hosts, Redeemer, KJV; or Master of Legions, Stone Ed.). Also, MY HAND has laid the foundation of the earth, and MY RIGHT HAND has measured out the heavens; I call to them and they stand together." John 3:3 says, "All things were made by him."
Verses 16-18 say, "hear this: I did not speak in secrecy at first; from the time [the decree] was issued I was there. And now, MY LORD, HASHEM/ELOHIM (1. God the Father), has sent ME (2. the Son) with HIS SPIRIT (3. the Holy Spirit). Thus said HASHEM (YHVH) your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel (the Son): I (the Son) am HASHEM (YHVH) your God, Who instructs you for [your] benefit, Who guides you in the way you should follow. If you had hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS (the Son's, at Sinai) your peace would [flow] like a river and your righteousness like the waves of the sea."
It looks like the Pre-incarnate Christ dealt with man in Old Testament days. He was seen as the angel of the Lord on different occasions. He came with 2 angels to talk to Abraham just before Lot was brought out of Sodom and the city was destroyed. No one has seen the Father. John 1:18 explains, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." II Cor. 5:19 explains that "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." Agape
I have been reading Artscroll's Stone Edition of the Tanach. Instead of the KJV "LORD of hosts," as our Redeemer is called, the Stone Ed. calls him "HASHEM Master of Legions." Every time I see that, I am reminded that God the Son is talking. In Old Testament days, he was the Pre-incarnate Mashiach. In New Testament days, he became the Incarnate Yehoshua Mashiach. He was the one that talked to Abraham just before Lot was brought out of Sodom. He was the one that spoke to Moses at Sinai. He is the one of the Godhead that deals directly with man. Joh 1:18 (KJV) says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the Godhead, and those three are one (echad, united). De. 6:4 (Stone Ed.) says, "Hear, O Israel: HASHEM (YHVH) is our God (Elohim, plural), HASHEM (YHVH) is the One (echad, united) and Only."
I am body, soul and spirit. The Godhead is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This trinity can be seen in Isa. 48:12-18. Verses 12 and 13 (Stone Ed.) say, "Listen to ME, O Jacob, and Israel, as he was called by ME (Gen. 32:28-30): I AM HE; I am the FIRST (YHVH king of Israel, the Pre-incarnate Christ), ALSO I am the LAST (the Lord Jesus Christ, YHVH of hosts, Redeemer, KJV; or Master of Legions, Stone Ed.). Also, MY HAND has laid the foundation of the earth, and MY RIGHT HAND has measured out the heavens; I call to them and they stand together." John 3:3 says, "All things were made by him."
Verses 16-18 say, "hear this: I did not speak in secrecy at first; from the time [the decree] was issued I was there. And now, MY LORD, HASHEM/ELOHIM (1. God the Father), has sent ME (2. the Son) with HIS SPIRIT (3. the Holy Spirit). Thus said HASHEM (YHVH) your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel (the Son): I (the Son) am HASHEM (YHVH) your God, Who instructs you for [your] benefit, Who guides you in the way you should follow. If you had hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS (the Son's, at Sinai) your peace would [flow] like a river and your righteousness like the waves of the sea."
In Isa. 45:12-23, The Saviour is talking. He said, "I made the earth and I created mankind upon it; it is I, My hands spread out the heavens and I commanded all its hosts [to come into existence]. I aroused {Cyrus] with righteousness and smoothed out all his paths; he will build My city and set My exiles free, not with a price and not with a bribe, said HASHEM (YHVH), MASTER OF LEGIONS. Thus said HASHEM: The toil of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush and the Sabeans, men of stature, will pass to you and will become yours...They will prostrate themselves before you; they will pray before you, 'Only with you [Jerusalem] is God, and there is none other, except for God'; {and before God,] 'Indeed, You are a God Who conceals Himself, THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS THE SAVIOR (YASHA)!...thus said HASHEM (YHVH), Creator of the heavens; He is the God, the One Who fashioned the earth and its Maker; He established it; He did not create it for emptiness; He fashioned it to be inhabited: I AM HASHEM (YHVH) and there is no other. I did not speak in secrecy, some place in a land of darkness; I did not tell the descendants of Jacob to seek Me for nothing; I am HASHEM Who speaks righteousness...Who let this be heard from aforetimes, or related it from of old? Is it not I, HASHEM (YHVH)? There is no other god besides Me; THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS GOD BESIDES ME AND NO SAVIOR (YASHA) OTHER THAN ME. TURN TO ME AND BE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, for I am God and there is no other....to Me shall every knee kneel and every tongue swear."
Prov. 30:4 asks, "Who else gathered the wind in his palm? Who else tied the waters in a cloak? Who established all the ends of the earth? WHAT IS HIS NAME (YHVH), AND WHAT IS HIS SON'S NAME?" (HASHEM [YHVH], MASTER OF LEGIONS [LORD OF HOSTS], YEHOSHUA, Y'SHUA, YESHUA, JESUS).
II Cor. 5:19 (CJB), "God in the Messiah was reconciling mankind to himself." The KJV has, "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself."
John 1:1-3;14-18 (CJB) says, "In the beginning (Gen. 1:1) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being...THE WORD BECAME A HUMAN BEING and lived with us, and WE SAW HIS SH'KHINAH, THE SH'KHINAH OF THE FATHER'S ONLY SON, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH....For the Torah was given through Moshe; GRACE AND TRUTH CAME THROUGH YESHUA THE MESSIAH. NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD; BUT THE ONLY AND UNIQUE SON, WHO IS IDENTICAL WITH GOD AND IS AT THE FATHER'S SIDE -- HE (YESHUA THE MESSIAH) HAS MADE HIM (YHVH THE FATHER) KNOWN." Shalom and agape
You state... I have Dr. Tabor's translation of Isa. 52 and 53. I thought you might like to see some of it. The emphasis and interpretations are mine. Isa. 52:10,14: "YHVH has bared THE ARM OF HIS HOLINESS in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the DELIVERANCE (YSHUWAH, salvation; i.e., YESHUA, Saviour) OF OUR ELOHIM (plural, the Godhead)... Just as many were astonished at you, so HIS (THE ARM OF YHVH'S) appearance was disfigured beyond that of a man ('ish), and HIS FORM BEYOND THAT OF THE SONS OF MAN ('adam). Thus HE (THE ARM OF YHVH) will startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths over HIM; because that which was not told them, they will see, and that which they had not heard, they shall understand." Isa. 53: "Who has believed OUR (ELOHIM'S) report? And upon whom is THE ARM OF YHVH revealed?
Your first mistake here is, that verse 10 of chapter 52 has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of Isaiah 53. In fact in the Hebrew they are 2 different paragraphs. Even you have skipped the intermittent verses which would show that split between the 2 topics.
You also presuppose something ridiculous here. You presuppose that every time the word Yihshoouh (or it's derivatives) refer to jesus. This idea is preposterous in & of itself.
In fact the beginning of chapter 53 refers to the Kings & the Nations spoken about in verse 15 of chapter 52. In fact, chapter 53 had it started in the correct place would have started with verse 13 of chapter 52 (which is where the topic actually starts).
"Who would believe that which we have heard ?" Verse 1 chapter 53) refers to the Kings & the nations spoken about that now "they will understand (hear) that which they had not heard" verse 15 chapter 52).
It's all there & obvious to anyone who looks to see that what I am saying is correct Scripturally.
Well, let's see. I'm looking at the Artscroll's Stone Edition. The ARM OF HASHEM in Isa. 52:10 is talking about the same person as the ARM OF HASHEM in Isa. 53:1. However, the time is different in each case.
Isa. 52:7-10 says, "Your God has reigned (at that time, I think he will have been crowned king on the previous Tishri 1)!...HASHEM RETURNS to Zion." I think this is referring to the SECOND COMING of the Messiah on the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year, Nisan 1. He will officially take office on Nisan 1, just as the other Israelite kings officially took office. He will put his feet down on the Mt. of Olives, and it will split (Zech. 14:4). At that time, "He will have (already) redeemed Jerusalem. HASHEM has bared HIS HOLY ARM before the eyes of all the nations."
The one called HIS HOLY ARM is also called HIS SERVANT. Verses 13,14 say, "Behold, MY SERVANT will succeed; he will be exalted and become high and exceedingly lofty. Just as multitudes were astonished over you, [saying,] 'HIS APPEARANCE IS TOO MARRED TO BE A MAN'S, AND HIS VISAGE TO BE HUMAN."
Isa. 53 starts out talking about the ARM OF HASHEM, his SERVANT, whose appearance was marred more than any man's from the brutalities he received. Here things of the past are to be described. These things took place at Messiah's FIRST COMING. "For whom has THE ARM OF HASHEM been revealed! FORMERLY he grew like a sapling or like a root from arid ground; he had neither form nor grandeur; we saw him, but without such visage that we could desire him. he was despised and isolated from men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness. As one from whom we would hide our faces; he was despised, and we had no regard for him. But in truth, IT WAS OUR ILLS THAT HE BORE, AND OUR PAINS THAT HE CARRIED...THE CHASTISEMENT UPON HIM WAS FOR OUR BENEFIT, AND THROUGH HIS WOUNDS, WE WERE HEALED. We have all strayed like sheep, each of us turning his own way, and HASHEM INFLICTED UPON HIM (THE ARM OF HASHEM) THE INIQUITY OF US ALL" (Isa. 53:1-6).
The only begotten Son of God is Jewish, a son of David of the tribe of Judah, but he is the Saviour of the whole world. He is our Passover Lamb, the propitiation for our sins. By his stripes we are healed IF we accept him as our own personal Saviour.
> > You presuppose that every time the word Yihshoouh (or it's derivatives) refer to jesus. This idea is preposterous in & of itself.
I didn't say every time. I was speaking of this time. I said, "all the ends of the earth shall see the DELIVERANCE (YSHUWAH, salvation; i.e., YESHUA, Saviour) OF OUR ELOHIM (plural, the Godhead)."
> > "Who would believe that which we have heard ?" Verse 1 chapter 53) refers to the Kings & the nations spoken about that now "they will understand (hear) that which they had not heard" verse 15 chapter 52).
The kings and nations will also "shut their mouths [in amazement]" (Isa. 52:15) at this astonishing thing, that the ARM OF HASHEM took the punishment due them for their sins. Yes, "Who would believe" what they have heard? You are an example of unbelief.
It is so astonishing that God would dwell in his only begotten son, and that the Son of God, after the flesh, would die and be resurrected to save believers from the fires of Hell, that many just can't believe it. That seems too good to be true, granted, but God loved us enough to give his only begotten son's life to atone for our sins so that we might live.
The Father and Son agreed to do this thing for us before the world was. The type in the Tanach was when Abraham was to kill Isaac. A ram took his place, just as Yeshua is called the Lamb of God and takes our place. The picture painted for us is very clear. The soul that sinneth will die, unless he has a substitute to die in his place. In truth, Yeshua was our substitute Ram, and not only ours, but of the whole world's. Isaac would have died if there hadn't been a substitute available. Agape
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