From ???@??? Thu Apr 22 21:28:59 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Re: INTRO:
>Just a short email to introduce myself. I am not a mason (yet)
>although I have been invited to join and am awaiting my initiation. I am
>therefore eager to know more about the roles and responsibilities of masonry,
>so if anyone can enlighten me further then please do so. I will
>(hopefully) be joining a lodge close to my (current) home town in Lancashire,
>England.
Hello there! Interested that you mention you were invited as I
thought this was a no-no. Can anyone clarify?
>However, perhaps understandably given the press that masonry occasionally
>receives, I am a little nervous about the prospect too. For instance, I
>note the point made by Mark Coyle - on this list - that there are some
>characters (he names Jim Davidson) who's public persona seems at odds with
>this moral perspective: and wonder whether, as with other organisations
>(and here I include some aspects of organised religions) a high ideal has been
>hijacked for baser motives: I hope not. That said, I accept that few, if
>any of us, can pass through life without a blemish; the greatest gift of all
>is forgiveness
From ???@??? Fri Apr 23 10:59:10 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Re: INTRO, some Davidson etc...
From: "Degasian"
alberto
thanks for the response - I think that you've made some good, common-sense
points, and I am looking forward to driving this new 'car'.
kind regards
degasian
From ???@??? Fri Apr 23 11:37:38 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Re: INTRO: inviting?
From: alberto vallini
Hallo dear subscribers,
Thank you for your appreciation, Degasian. I think that the metaphor I
suggested is appropiate: many masons live masonry passively, when all of the
best comes out only if you get propositive and working (no matter if you
are an
entered apprentice: it is not the degree that provides nobilty meaning and
might to man, it is the interpretation of the man that gives nobilty and
meaning and might to the degree!).
I noticed a question about being "invited" to Free-Masonry: some subscriber
wondered whether it was a "no-no".
Actually, it is not: the problem is the following:
If you find a person suitable, you can make inquiry and test if he/sahe would
like to join. The idea that recruiting cannot be done comes out from this:
recruiting is a humiliating experience!
I have a couple of friends that I thought could be perfect masons, so I
attempted to suggest or ask to them if the would have liked to join: what
ensues is a long debate, where the other person usually starts proposing the
old biases against Free-Masonry: you have to overcame that, than you have to
explain to them that the worst approach is to undertake masonry with the
puropse of getting personal, maybe economic advantages: you try explaining
them, than, that what counts in Masonry is the ritual and the research for a
deeper approach to life and death: they hardly believe it! So you go on
debating. They than say they cannot see why rituals should be important: you
start saying that otherwise we could meet out of the lodge: if what we would
like to accomplish would have been establishing a network of connections, we
could meet in private houses and not in a temple, with much higher
advantages... Masonry fulfills the need, so to say, for a non-religious
ritual:
many men feel this necessity and Masonry provides some tools for this. Which
would not prevent anyone from attending, say, a church!!! Simply, it fulfills
the ancient need of mankind for a religious approach to life, without the
restraints of relions: there are no sinners , there are Brothers!!!
So you see: you can recruit, but it is not advisable because you have to go
through a whole barrage of misunderstandings and at the end of the road a "no
thanks" awits you... hence the idea that "inviting" should not be undertaken:
it is not proibhited! Simply, it is often useless...
If you see a friend that you think could be a mason, do not approach him with
the topic starightly: invite him to some congress or meeting... simply provide
to him the occasions to start developing the idea by himself/herself.
Unfortunately, if you don't have a "maasonic mindset" which has sprung
originally, there is no way to build it by an outern effort: it is like a
seed,
it has its timing and its ruling, forcing it to grow would do nothing.
Free-Masonry cannot involve "conversion" crusades... this is the reason we are
called FREE Masons!!
Good luck with your initiation (a suggestive and unforgettable cerimony) and,
hey, tell us when you become an "official" mason :-) Entered Apprentice is a
degree that carries with itself a freshness and a beauty that you will miss
forever with the following degrees: there is nothing more beautiful in a lodge
that viewing a whole column of entered apprentices with their shining white
aprons and white gloves, aligned like a new young army ready to give its
contribution to the Good. There is nothing more sad in a Lodge than viewing a
temple with a few scattered brothers with Master aprons, on the verge of
falling asleep because they are in the Lodge after 12 hours of work in the
"profane" life and they missed the sense that Free-Masonry is not an idea: THEY
are Free-Masonry: it is not Free-Masonry that should revitalize you, it is YOU
who must revitalize Free-Masonry!
have a nice day,
From ???@??? Fri Apr 23 19:24:39 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Re: INTRO:
Hi - I think Alberto has already given a fuller
answer to your query on the 'invitiation'. As it happens I attended a
private function at what it transpired was a Masonic lodge. After
expressing an interest and appreciation of the lodge to to my friend and he
showed me around the 'public' areas. A few days later he offered some more
information and when my interest in joining became obvious he offered to put me
forward. I've no reason to believe that this is in any way a breach of any
code. Hope this helps.
From ???@??? Sat Apr 24 15:27:55 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Re: INTRO, some Davidson etc...
From: "Duncan J. Moore"
Message text written by INTERNET:Free-Masonry@eGroups.com
>I dunno much about this jim Davidson, so I think that better accounts can
be
given by some british Brother.
Happy to do so and I cn't agree with the statement made elsewhere about a
public persona not compatible with Free-Masonry. Jim Davidson is a comedian
and TV game show host. He's a very committed Mason and has done a lot of
good for charity. May many more people of his calibre join our ranks.
Not many of us, I feel, realise what we are up against and why we get bad
publicity. It is a question of image and we are now starting to project a
better one. As an example someone said to me recently "It's got to be
suspicious because nobody knows who is in Masonry". We used to produce
lists of members of each Lodge in England from about 1790 until 1950 (dates
approximate) when the authorities responsible for collating the names
abandoned the practice because of the paperwork involved. What I want to
know is how many organisations with a sizeable membership publish a full
list of that membership for public consumption ? I would suspect the answer
is very few.
Regards
Duncan Moore
From ???@??? Sat Apr 24 15:28:01 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] (no subject)
From:
I agree that our institution is in dire
straits. In Vermont membership seems to be
dropping. In the last few years, our Grand Master
has done different activities to try to keep
Free-Masonry strong. I would welcome any ideas, as
to things brothers have done to build interest.
We have done open houses, and marched in parades.
Fraternally,
Errol Hinton P.M.
Island Pond # 44 F & AM
We meet the 2nd monday at 7:30
From ???@??? Sat Apr 24 16:00:58 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Re: the problems of Masonry
From: alberto vallini
Hallo dear subscribers,
I agree with what Errol says in here. Better: it is not that I agree, I really
wonder what caused so many problems of bad image to Free-Masonry worldwide.
In Italy it would be more understandable: we had in the 80s a bad story
involving a Lodge in Roma, named RL. P2, that, despite being rejected by the
Grande Oriente d' Italia much earlier than it came to the honour of the press'
roll, went on with its activities in private places. Activities that involved
lobbying and the pursuit of bare economic advantages for its members. This
strongly affected the image of the whole Free-Masonry in italy, so that the
public bias was that any Lodge was undertaking similar actions as P2.
So no wonder if in Italy Free-Masonry suffered for about 10 years of a very bad
reputation. I am happy to say that this is quite over by now, and I can
proudly
say that the main effort for the renewal of the Italian official Free-Masonry
came from Florence.
Main point:
I'd like to ask what caused troubles to Masonry in other countries. I thought
it was a specifically italian topic, but now i see it must be a much more
generalized one. I think that this could be a good environment to find what
problems encountered the Grand Lodges worldwide, so to improve our mutual
understanding of the problems we are coping with and to see if we can provide,
through debate, some solutions with our mutual suggestions and thoughts.
As for the matter of the lists: I agree that there is nothing to hide, and
anyone who is a mason knows perfectly that what is said within a Lodge
could as
well being yelled by a balcony without any concern. Our concept of secret is
merely a ritual one: instance: we keep saying that our "holy" words (i
dunno if
it is the right translation in english) are a secret, but it is well known
that
they are written on thousands of publicy sold books! Our stand for secrecy is,
so, merely RITUAL. To some extent, it is sort of the latin "homo ludens":
there
is a ludic component even in the most serious activities.
So for the member lists: it doesn't seem that Masonry is behaving differently
from any other institutions. We are not concealing our lists: the matter
is: if
you ask the lists of the subscribers to a political party, you will not get
them so easily. If you ask the lists of the subscribers to a trade union, they
are not eager at all to provide them to anyone. If you ask the member lists of
a public institution, they would wonder why you want them. If you even ask the
list of the subscribers to a GYM (!) they will not provide them to you at all.
There are not apparent reasons for Free-Masonry to adopt a different policy.
This is simple to make a point, and, please do believe me, not in order to
imply that our lists should not be disclosed: simply, I wonder why privacy is
admitted as obvious to any organized group in a democratic country but
Free-Masonry.
From ???@??? Sat Apr 24 17:12:03 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] The trouble with Free-Masonry
From:
The biggest troubles I seem to see is that people don't seem to be
interested in the fraternity any more.
I remember as a small boy watching my father and his two brothers head off to lodge
all dressed up, and I knew that some day I would want to do the same.
I have four brothers that all belong to the craft.
The problem is that there just isn't that much youth in the craft.
Last year we initiated three new brothers.
We also gave out 5 fifty year pins and one 65 year pin.
Somehow we must get the younger men i
nvolved. I see some activity with the Order of DeMoley,
but with all of the distractions in the world, more needs to be done.
As far as the ritual goes, it is important.
I feel that this is what sets us apart from other groups.
The lessons taught are invaluable.
To alter these would damage the fraternity
I would love any imput as to how we can boost membership
and get this wonderfull nd important message out
Fraternally,
Errol
From ???@??? Mon May 03 11:04:58 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Does this list have an Archive?
From:
Just joined this list and was surprised that it did not have an Archive listing,
at least one that could be accessed thru the eGroups member center.
If there is an Archive, how does one access it to see what has transpired with the the Free-Masonry
list since inception?
Thanks
From ???@??? Mon May 03 12:29:24 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Re: Does this list have an Archive?
From: alberto vallini
Hallo,
for privacy concerns we did not allow for an archive, despite the list on the
whole is rather "open": I think it is the only list devoted to Free-Masonry
whose status is BOTH unrestricted and unmoderated.
It is run moderated or restricted only under short and particular
circumstancies (let's say to cool off some flaming, which has anyway never
occoured so far).
Anyway it is not the first time this wish appears, so I am considering of
uploading on line the archives onm some free web space. It will be done within
a few weeks, say a couple, in a very simple and informative way (no frills,
just the text for meeting the informational purposes).
In the meanwhile I encourage anyone who whishes so to post threads to the list
for the mutual benefit.
Have a nice day
From ???@??? Thu May 13 20:06:44 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] New To The List!
From:
Hello,
My name is Joe Ohlandt and I am the Master of Acacia Lodge #20 F&AM in Dover, NJ.
I hope that I can be of assistance to anyone that may need assistance
or information about Free-Masonry or New Jersey.
Please feel free to contact me directly or through a post.
Joe Ohlandt
From ???@??? Thu May 13 20:06:44 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] [Fwd: [Fwd: Believe it or not: Part two.]]
The two year old news clipping posted by George on 3rd May [reproduced below]
could be viewed as a silly superstition. I have traveled throughout this region
of Zambia and believe this sort of story could very well be true. However, I
on-sent it to my brothers in Western Australia and was most shocked to receive
the following.
'At the United Press Lodge last Saturday, our secretary read out a circular
letter to all Lodges from the Grand Secretary of The United Grand Lodge of
Western Australia. The letter says that all Lodges are to hand in their
'emblems of mortality' and that each Lodge will be issued with 'a pictorial
replacement' to be used in the third degree work.' My brothers comment was, 'I
wonder when they will take away the CT and Sharp Instrument!, The raising
ceremony has survived without incident through quite a few centuries, and our
GL is guilty of a knee jerk reaction.'
Any Comments?
Electronic News from Zambia Date 5/6/97
http://wwwzamnet.zm/zamnet/zana/zanabase/970605.satan.html
SATANISTS UNDER INVESTIGATION
Kabwe
Police in Kabwe have sent the skull and bones which they retrieved from the
Masonic building in Kabwe yesterday to the University Teaching for scientific
examination.
Central Province police chief, Nungu Sassassali, said today that the bones
which are believed to be relics of Satanists were sent to the UTH for a
forensic examination so they can be determined whether they are human or not.
Mr. Sassassali says police have already interviewed the three suspects who were
picked up from the Masonic Building and are carrying out even further
investigations in the case.
The three were picked up in the morning of Wednesday when police raided the
Masonic building after a tip-off from members of the public that it was being
used as a temple for Satanists.
There was pandemonium in Kabwe town when the alleged Satanists were taken to
the police station as enraged Christian sympathizers wanted to lynch them right
there and then.
Police had to protect the 'Satanists' by firing in the air and lobbying tear
gas canisters into the milling increasingly hostile crowd.
Source: ZAMTODAY
Zambia Today / Zambian New Agency [ZANA] /
From ???@??? Thu May 13 20:38:53 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] trestleboards
From:
hi, i am thom booker, jr warden of Ajo lodge 36, in arizona usa.
i have been charged by our master with creating/editing a trestle board
or lodge publication by whatever name.
we are a small lodge of less than 100 members and i would especially like to hear
from others who publish such a publication and perhaps receive a sample copy.
my postal address is below. any ideas or suggestions?
thom booker
p. o. box 667
ajo, az 85321
u. s. a.
From ???@??? Fri May 14 12:13:32 1999
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] New To The List!
From: Bemho22@aol.com
Joe,
Good to see you on the list. I hope that we can share ideas.
Errol Hinton P.M Island Pond #44
Island Pond Vt
From ???@??? Fri May 14 12:13:32 1999
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] New To The List!
From: "Ed Martin"
Greetings Brother
I too am new to the list Some background. I am a PM,.
Master in 79 I also hold a proficiency cetificate called District
Lecturer [at present it is
on the inactive list] I am age 91 and am not able to be too active. I
belong to Malta Lodge #218 A.F.& A.M Grand Lodge of Iowa. and have been
a member for 25 years joining after I retired
In the past while my wife of 56 yrs was living, we did a lot of traveling,
and whenever possible I visited a local lodge. I enjoyed comparing the
ritual of the different lodges with that of Iowa. This was not in a
critical way, but as a matter of interest. California. Texas,Indiana,
Illinois, Michigan Florida even Mexico.. They are all different but get the
canditate to the same place. Very interesting and I reccomend it to any
mason. It is an education in itself.
Enough about me
Fraternaly Ed Martin PM
From ???@??? Sat May 15 17:24:57 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Unsubscribe
From:
Since I do not prefer to have the e-mails posted directly
to my computer nor do I like to download postings,
and since you prefer not to have an archive that one can go to
to read the postings to this list,
I therefore respectfully request to have my address removed from your list.
If in the future you do decided to have an archive system
as many other lists do, this Freemason will resubscribe.
Until then, so mote it be!
From ???@??? Sat May 15 17:34:54 1999
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Unsubscribe
From: vallini
Unsubscription must be made directly on the eGroups site by the user
him/herself.
Please, You can go to http://www.egroups.com and log in and than choose to
unsubscribe from the list.
When the archives will be available there will be anyway no way to let you
know. Nayway you could not browse all of them also if they would have been
online at eGroups because there is a file size limit for the archive and we
still trespaassed it.
With fraternal regards
Alberto Vallini
From ???@??? Sun May 16 13:21:45 1999
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Unsubscribe
From: "Rick Conn"
Bro.Alberto, I have been sub'd to the list for only two days now, and if
the list is always this quiet how could anyone complain about the
emails........ does anyone ever talk on this list?....... if it is this
quiet, then the "archives" would be empty too, am I not right???...........
Let me introduce myself,
Thomas Richard Conn
Past Master, Grayson Lodge #549
Grayson, Georgia, USA
32 Scottish Rite, Orient of Georgia, Valley of Atlanta
York Rite, Sweetwater Chapter, Gwinnett Council, Arnold de Troye Commandary
Yaarab Shrine Temple, Atlanta, Georgia.......(Captain of the Legion of
Honor)
Loganville Shrine Club.........(Secretary)
Past president of the Gwinnett County Masonic Association
Masonic Service Association of North America representive to the Veterans
Adminstration Medical Center in Atlanta, Georgia.
editor and publisher of the Shrine Club Newsletter for 3 years now.
glad to be on the list and hope to hear from Brothers on it and maybe gain
some more light........
Always traveling toward the East.............
I Remain Yours in the Faith
Fraternally............. Rick Conn, PM
From ???@??? Sun May 16 13:21:46 1999
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Unsubscribe
From: "thom"
ok, i'll post; although i did a day or so ago. could it be we don't post
because we are a "secret" org.? :)
From ???@??? Sun May 16 17:48:00 1999
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Unsubscribe
From: vallini
Hallo brother Rick!
You are just to the point and perfectly right!
The situation is as this: we have almost 80 subscribers, from all over the
world, India, China, Usa, UK, Usa, Italy, Germany and more. I can assure that a
masonic list with about 80 subscribers is, by any means, a really consistent
one.
I have solicited many a time our subscribers, in several occasions to issue
threads and feel free to start any subject. Even non masonic subjects could be
fair, as as masons we are involved with the world. nonetheless it seems that
most of our subscribers prefer to read posts and not to partecipate. So you are
right: it is a bit puzzling when a subscriber says: I unsubscribe because I see
no posts, and he is one of those who NEVER issued one! :o)
I cannot spot the reasons for it, maybe the idea that Free-Masonry must be
"misterious" and concerned with the so called "secrecy" issue conditions our
behaviour much more towards unproductive outputs than productive ones.
Anyway I have time today to upload the archives online. I will start working on
them right now and I will upload them in, say, 12 hours and I will soon
afterward post the URL to the list. I hope this will help us.
Please note that I will upload them in a, so to say, basic layout: no frills
(pics and so on, this is), just the archives.
I will let you know within 12 hours.
I hope this will help, and maybe will even provide a chance for retreiving some
of our past threads with the contribution of new subscribers.
As I will paste the emails, it is possible that names of some Brother or
subscriber will be written in the email (i do NOT edit emails!!). if someone
does not wish so, just tell me the page where the name is (will be) and I will
substitute it with some acronym.
Best fraternal regards
From ???@??? Sun May 16 18:27:24 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] URL of our Archives
From: vallini
Hallo,
ok I have uploaded the archives for Free-Masonry@eGroups.com
I suggest not to give out the url to people that do not belong
to the list (not for secrecy concerns but because it would be better to the list if they
subscribe, so to provide also some input, instead of, so to say, "lurking"
without being subscribed).
The Web address is:
http://geocities.datacellar.net/Heartland/Ridge/9344/
have fun.
From ???@??? Mon May 17 14:32:26 1999
Subject: [Free-Masonry] REMOVE
From: "Gina"
From ???@??? Mon May 17 14:45:32 1999
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] REMOVE: the user can do it at eGroups
From: vallini
Hallo
removing from the list must be made directly by the subscriber at eGroups.
please go to:
http://www.egroups.com
and log in. after that you will be provided with the list of the groups you're
subscribed to and can change your status anytime.
This is the feature at eGroups and is easier.
Moreover, at eGroups you can also set your status to any list to the NO MAIL
mode, that can be changed to the MAIL mode as well, this in case you simply
need not to get emails for shorter times and unsubscribing is not exactly what
you wish. eGroups provides lots of flexibility under this point of view that
almost no other group provides. This is the reason we chose it.
i take this chance for resending the URL of our archives that are finally
uploaded online after so many requests:
http://geocities.datacellar.net/Heartland/Ridge/9344/
In the archives email addresses have been all removed. if you prefer also your
name not to appear on the archives just let me know.
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