Subject: [Free-Masonry] questions about Masonic rituals and how they relate
to the Mormon church...
From: "Jeff Bishop"
Hello Everyone,
I would be interested in dialoging with someone who is a member of the
Mormon church (the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saints). I wanted to
find out whether or not there were members of the Masons who were Mormons. I
do know that Joseph Smith was a Mormon, but there seems to be some church
history surrounding this that has me a little concerned.
You see, I am interested in joining the Masons but want to insure that this
will in know way affect my religious affiliation (both from the church and
the Masons perspective).
Anyone have any clues???
Jeff Bishop
Microsoft Certified Professional
Windows 95, SQL Server and Microsoft Access
http://www.azstarnet.com/~jeffbis
Subject: [Free-Masonry] materials for Masons available in electronic form, braille, or tape...
From: "Jeff Bishop"
Hello,
Does anyone know if after joining the Masons if the material provided to an
individual is available in a form that a blind person could use???
Jeff Bishop
Microsoft Certified Professional
Windows 95, SQL Server and Microsoft Access
http://www.azstarnet.com/~jeffbis
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] questsions about Masonic rituals and how they relate to the...
From:
Jeff,
I am both a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints and a Mason. I am actually a past master. I would love to talk with
you about this
Sincerely,
Errol Hinton
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] materials for Masons available in electronic form, braille, or tape...
From:
That is an interesting question. I know that the Grand Lodge of TN does not
have any such material, as it may appear to violate the Masonic obligation
from the first degree (EA) ritual of TN. I know of a Brother here that is a
PM and he committed his material to memory.
Fraternally &AMp; POTS
R. Holder, W.M.
Leila Scott Lodge
#289 F &AMp; A M
Memphis, TN
PS, this is the only Masonic Lodge in TN named after a Lady!
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Ritual in Braille
From: "Neil Wynes Morse"
Jeff Bishop asked:
>Does anyone know if after joining the Masons if the material
>provided to an individual is available in a form that a blind person
> could use???
The Museum of the United Grand Lodge of New South Wales and the
Australian Capital Territory has a Braille version of the ritual
and rubric of the three degrees on display at present. I understand
that it was made to assist a brother who had been blinded in WWI and
who joined the Craft in the 1920s.
S&AMp;F
Neil Wynes Morse
Secretary, Canberra Lodge of Research and Instruction
Canberra, Australia's national capital
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Ritual in Braille
From: "thom"
there are probably guys who can answer this better than i. but wouldn't
that depend upon what your grand lodge provides? of course you could ask a
brother mason to braille it for you.
sorry if this is already answered to your satisfaction; i just got back from
grand lodge communication here in az and went "no mail"on the list while i
was gone
Subject: [Free-Masonry] THE question...
From:
So, I hate to be so blunt and stupid about this, but I have to go to the
source and ask. What IS Masonism? I have read a lot and heard a lot, but I
still don't know if what I read and heard is true or not. From what I can
gather, the Mason's are most likely a group of men (women too? I don't
know.) who are all together to either a) better themselves somehow, b) pass
along esoteric mystical information on illumination c) take over the world.
Grin. See I really don't have a clue. I would really love to know the
history and the purpose behind masonic lodges, as well as how they relate to
one another. Is there a centeral governing body, or they all spereate. Do
the rituals from one lodge vary from another, etc. And what is the purpose
behind them? Any information that you can provide or are willing to provide
will be much appreciated.
thanks!
Mason (that is my name)
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] THE question...
From:
Hello Mason,
There are never stupid questions and I am glad you asked this one... I am a
Mason and I feel Masonry has been a very good association to my family and
myself. We are a Fraternity of men who like getting involved and getting
things done... Many of our Founding Fathers were MAsons. The oldest man to
have gone into Space is a Mason, John GLenn... Masons come from all walks of
life and many fdifferent Faiths. One must have a belief in a "Supreme Being"
(God) to be a MAson. We are not a Religion but we are closely tied to
Religion.. I have sat in Lodge with Shintus, Moslums, Jews, Christians, and
never once has a man's Faith been an issue. We do not discuss Politics or
Religion in Lodge.. All Masons are equal. There are three Degrees in
MAsonrry, Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft , and Master Mason. Here is
something our Grand Lodge puts out:
What is Free-Masonry?
It's the oldest, largest and most
prestigious fraternity in the
world. We're kind of like
a civic club, a charitable
institution and a fraternity - all
rolled into one.
We're a civic club in that
we do a lot of community and
state wide projects. We're like
a major charity in that we give
almost $2 million away every
day. But, most importantly, we
are a fraternity for men doing
good things for each other and
morals and ethics together in
our community.
What do you get out of it?
A lot of pride, a sense of
belonging to an organization that
exists all over the world. Being
part of a great heritage. Sharing
an identity with the greatest men
of the past - and of today.
Sharing a special bond with men
From all walks of life - creating
Life- long friendships with them.
Just being a member of an
organization that believes in
toleration - that lets each man
think for himself and express his
own opinions, without worrying
about being wrong.
I get a lot more out of Masonry
Than I put into it.
What do Masons Do?
The most important thing we do is
take care of each other and our
families. We are a fraternity
that means we help other
Masons, treat them in special
ways, support them no matter
where they live. And build
friendships all over the world.
not very many organizations do
that today.
And we help others. That's why
We give almost $2 million a day
to charity. And most of our
money goes to help kids. We
rank among the top 10 best-liked
charitable groups in America.
But we also teach leadership
skills, and help men lead an
ethics-based life. We promote
good relationships and strong
family values. We try to do
something to strengthen the
family unit every day.
What is the Mission of Masonry?
To promote a way of life that
binds like-minded men in a
Worldwide Brotherhood that
transcends all religious, ethnic,
cultural, social and educational
differences: by teaching the
great principles of brotherly
love, relief and truth and by
the outward expression of these
through its fellowship, it's
compassion and it's concern to
find ways in which to serve
God, family, country, neighbors
and self.
Hope it helps..
Sincerely &AMp; Respectfully
Manny Blanco
Moreno Valley Lodge # 804
Moreno VAlley, CA
909-247-2015
Please feel free to ask any questions you might have.. Also if you give me
the town, city you live in I can reer you to a Lodge close to you so that you
might talk to Masons face to face...
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Small Masonic Thoughts
From: Myke
Brn and friends,
I am compiling a diary for my Masonic district and I'm looking for the best
of those little one and two liners our secretaries sneak into our notice
papers from time to time. For instance: 'Time is the best education of all,
unfortunately it kills all it's pupils' and 'If you journey on a road made
by your own hands each day, you will arrive at the place where you should
be' or 'There are three kinds of Mason, those who make things happen,
those who watch things happen and those who wonder what happened'
I would be grateful for any contributions received.
Fraternally
Michael Gerrish JW
The Royal Empire Lodge 613
UGL NSW Australia
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] DAILY QUOTES via E-mail
From: Tom Nash
Bro. Mike:
Here's a Mail List which brings quotes, daily, to your
e-mail box. What's a Mail list? Well, for many years
people have been joining "mailing lists" to talk about
their favorite topics via e-mail! Visit http://www.liszt.com
to learn more and search Liszt's main directory of 90,095
mailing lists available for subscription. Enjoy!
Sincerely and fraternally,
/Tom Nash
Anchor No. 424
San Antonio, TX
Myke said:
Brn and friends,
I am compiling a diary for my Masonic district and I'm looking for the
best
of those little one and two liners our secretaries sneak into our notice
papers from time to time. For instance: 'Time is the best education of
all,
unfortunately it kills all it's pupils' and 'If you journey on a road
made
by your own hands each day, you will arrive at the place where you
should
be' or 'There are three kinds of Mason, those who make things happen,
those who watch things happen and those who wonder what happened'
I would be grateful for any contributions received.
Fraternally
Michael Gerrish JW
The Royal Empire Lodge 613
UGL NSW Australia
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Largest collection of Masonic links
From: Tejinder Singh Rawal
Brethren all!
I have put a very large collection of Masonic Links at
http://lodgecorinth.web-page.net
Please do visit ( follow the link)
Kindly send me the URL's that are missing.
Fraternally,
Tejinder
Lodge Corinth, Nagpur, India
Tejinder Singh Rawal
M.Com. , M.A. ( Eco.) , M.A. ( Public Administration) , LL.B., FCA
Chartered Accountant, Nagpur, India
http://tax.indiainfo.com
Subject: [Free-Masonry] probably very off topic but======
From: thom
can any of you tell me about ICQ: good, bad, indifferent, speak from
experience? am wondering if it would be worth getting.
please answer me off-list so as not to offend more, unless you are answering
on my list of course!!:)
Subject: [Free-Masonry] What does the 'G' in the Masonic symbol mean?
From: Angus MacGyver
Hello again. I would like to ask what the letter 'G' in the center of the
Masonic square-and-compass symbol means. Is it God, Great Architect of the
Universe, or some secret cabalistic word whose real meaning should not be told
to the profane?
Also, what is Free-Masonry's stand vis-a-vis other so-called "secret societies"
and "mystery schools," can you be a member of one or more of these even if
you are already a Mason? I'm talking about the Rosy Cross, Rosicrucians, AMORC
Martinists, Manicheans, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Ordo Naga Brahmas,
etc. Do any of these groups oppose any of the others, including Free-Masonry?
They all claim to possess sacred, ancient knowledge that are, naturally
inaccessible to the profane (or "non-initiates"). Which groups are legitimate
and which are just quasi-religious, pseudo-mystical money-making ventures?
--Eugene
As above, so below.
--Hermes Trimegistus
"Whoever reflects on four things, it were better he had never been born;
that which is above, that which is below, that which is before, and that
which is after."
--Talmud, Hagigah 2.1
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] What does the 'G' in the Masonic symbol mean?
From: Byrne
angus wrote
>Hello again. I would like to ask what the letter 'G' in the center of the
>Masonic square-and-compass symbol means.
like most masonic ritual it has 2 meanings god and geometry some ritual
points to 1 meaning and some to the other - it links god to his role as
designer and builder of the universe and as such someone with a complete
understanding of geometry
>Also, what is Free-Masonry's stand vis-a-vis other so-called secret
>societies and mystery schools, can you be a member of one or >more of
these even if you are already a Mason? I'm talking about the >Rosy Cross,
Rosicrucians, AMORC Martinists, Manicheans, >Hermetic Order of the Golden
Dawn, Ordo Naga Brahmas,
>etc.
any serious student of Free-Masonry would necessarily need to explore the
schools of esoterica - i can't speak of all of the above schools but i have
never come across any masonic advice to keep away from any of them
rose croix and templars do of course exist as masonic side degrees in
england and as part of mainstream Free-Masonry elsewhere
hope this helps
patrick
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] What does the 'G' in the Masonic symbol mean?
From: vallini
There is a ritual formulation: Glory for the great architect of the universe,
Grandness for the worshipful master, and Geometry for all the brothers. So
Byrne reply appears as being the more correct one: the G stands for Geometry.
The other version is:
The G stands for GRAND (in italy it is "Grande"), more precisely Grand
Architect of the Universe. If some family refers to it as Great (possible. I
know that in Uk the mother lodge is called Grand Lodge, I dunno if they use the
same word for referring to the Grande Architetto dell' universo) that's ok as
well.
As for secrets and ancient knowledges, Free-Masonry has none: we don't have
secrets, we don't have any non-human knowledge. That's a group of men vowed to
some principles and endeavouring to have a non trivial approach to life. Some
of us delve into esoteric issues, but the knowledge they can have about
esoterism is the same anyone else could have by studying the books that are
publicy sold in any good library.
Actually, there is no such a thing like a "masonic secret". There is nothing
such as a non-human knowledge or privileged information in Free-Masonry, and
claiming it would be a boast. The masonic commitment to the so called secrecy
does not come out from the fact we really host secrets, but form the fact that
the kind of mitology Free-Masonry refers to implies also the mitology of
clandestinity. I repeat: the MITHOLOGY. FreeMasons are sort of, under a
mitological approach, hosts of the Lord of the Hosts, sort of a group of men
committed to the good (the scottish 9th degree highlights pretty well these
statements...). So secrecy becames masons in the same way mourning becomes
Elettra: its merely a mitologic involvement of the fact of being organized like
an army devoted to the good (no matter now if EVEN some brothers misunderstand
this point): any army shows some attitude towards secrecy, but there is no
REAL secret. Moreover, you can guess this by the fact that any good bookstore
publicy sells masonic books where our rituals are described in full detail.
More: ther are even lodges that show online the picture of their cerimonies
(ONE example:
http://geocities.datacellar.net/Athens/Parthenon/7593/photo1.html
Many lodges even publish online the list of their memebers: ONE example:
http://www.global-expos.com/officers.html
or just another one among MANY:
http://hometown.aol.com/gsaholly/page/index.htm
Many Grand Lodges put online the pictures of their temples. Among the most
beautiful:
http://www.nymasons.org/gothic.html
)
So you could now understand better that this topic of the secrecy is over
estimated, because it is taken LITERALLY, while it is MERELY symbolic!!!
I hope this makes at least a minimal sense :o)
regards
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] What does the 'G' in the Masonic symbol mean?
From:
this makes the most sense. Geometry is the same in most modern european
langagues since it is derived from greek. ("let only those who know geometry
enter" .. this was Plato's motto above his Academy -- sorry the Classics
major in me is slipping out) i'm not sure about the italian comment but in
my opion .. the simple word Geometry makes the most sense because if you
start to look at other languages where "Great" or "Grande" or "Grand" could
change the "G" would have to change too, if that were the case that "G" meant
"Great" etc. depending on the language. since the G doesn't change, there
must be some universality in it.
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] probably very off topic but======
From:
sorry about taking so long to respond but i have seen icq on one list
profiles. i have no idea what it means. perhaps an email to help@eGroups or
to admin@eGroups.com may give you an answer. if you do find out let me know
please.
masonically, i have been busy doing masonic funerals for my own lodge and
other lodges. we tried to have our annual banquet honoring our new 50 year
masons, widows and past masters. i printed 525 invitations and mailed them
out at a cost of $70.00 with a rsvp deadline. out of all of the responses,
only 11 made reservations and of those 11 not one was one of the new 50 year
masons to be honored. the caterer needed 30 to break even and the event was
canceled. i told the sect. to mail the 50 year masons their pins and cards
as it will be cheaper than paying the caterer. i am now a past master.
after 6 months of sitting in the east, i became a past master. i have had my
picture taken by a brother and finally found a portrait that will fit in the
lodge portrait gallery of past masters. now i am about to order my past
master's apron which my lodge does for each worshipful. the only apron that
i have seen that i like is from j. p. luther company in wisconsin and it will
cost the lodge $330 and $125 for a leather apron case.
i have a 4 step program in the lodge and we are now in step 2. step 1, we
are buying for the local va hospital bus tokens for use by indigent veterans
tha have no way to get to the local va hospital for treatment. in 5 months,
only 1 token has been issued and it only costs the lodge about $40 per year.
step 2, the same va, bought some vcr players. the lodge bought $140 worth of
vcr movies for the va so that the veterans can watch a movie while receiving
treatment or recovering from surgery. members of the lodge also donated some
vcr movies. step 3 will be starting in a few weeks which is a blood donor's
program for members of this lodge and their immediate family. step 5 will be
expanding the blood donor's program to include all masons in the metropolitan
memphis area and their immediate family.
now the grand master has asked me to take on a new project which is to start
a bethel for job's daughters. i have been in contact with the supreme
guardian and the ball is rolling. my oes chapter is reluctant in doing this
as they support the rainbow girls. but the chapter chaplain is interested in
helping. and tall cedars of lebanon wants to expand into west tennessee
which will open the door to eastern arkansas, southeast missouri and northern
mississippi. sounds like a lot of work for a lodge of 400 members and only 10
showing up for meetings. i doubled lodge attendance by having family meals
on lodge meeting night. brethren bring their families, the ladies play card
games and the men meet, the whole family eats together. hope some of these
give you some ideas for lodge programs.
fraternally,
ronald holder, w. m.
leila scott lodge #289
memphis, tn
Subject: [Free-Masonry] OFF TOPIC BUT I NEED RUMOR CONTROL!
From: thom
Since we collectively know just about everything or at least we say we do,
:) can anyone confirm or deny this before i spread it further???
>>>> > Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online
and
:>>>> > continue using email: The last few months have revealed an alarming
:>>>trend
:>>>> > in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push
:>>>through
:>>>> > legislation that will affect your use of the Internet. Under
:>proposed
:>>>> > legislation the U.S. Postal Service will be attempting to bilk
email
users
out of "alternate postage fees".
Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt. to charge a 5 cent surcharge
on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at
source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP.
Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to
prevent this legislation from becoming law. The U.S. Postal Service
:is
claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is
costing
nearly
$230,000,000 in revenue per year.
----CUT-----
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] OFF TOPIC BUT I NEED RUMOR CONTROL!
From: vallini
Hi,
yes i heard some rumors about this, even here in Italy. I also learn by the the Newsweek
july 19, 1999 that sen. Bradley said
"we don't yet know what the internet is going to become so it
doesn't make sense to talk about taxing it", which implies:
a)A confirmation of these rumours
b)The sneaking idea that when
we would know "what the internet is going
to become" we are
still ready to tax it... in fact, quite obviously, once
it will become "what it is going to become",
supposedly sound reasons for taxing it will be raised for sure.....
Quite frankly, the main point is that for taxing
there must be a reason, so that NOT everything that can
be taxed also MUST be taxed (you could tax also breathing,
after all it is consuming a public asset and
producing pollution): you can impose a tax only if there is a
governmental, and in the Us case, federal involvement of some
NECESSARY service (maybe even vital)
provided by the government itself. When no such a service is
there, taxing is, simply, an abuse. A legitimate robbering.
Moreover any taxing approach goes directly
against the balance of the free market: taxing
the net would mean to have NOT understood that
the net is itself one great engine for the economy
(not only because the internet chips are producing the most remarkable
yields, but also because the developing of the online
purchasing will boost the economy even
further, step by step, more and more any year, increasingly,
purchased computer after purchased computer...).
Taxing it would mean to renounce to a, so to say, 1000%
benefit to get a 10% revenue. Any major company should heavily
lobby against it, and also us, the citizens, must
never forget that WE are the internet and if we act hard
enough, politicians are bound either to comply, or to lose
our vote and leave amid protests leaving a sad legacy behind their names.
You might know what happened to Yahoo recently.
It merged with Geocities, and they changed the TOS for t
he users on Geocities, claiming that yahoo would keep the exclusive
copyright of any file uploaded on geocities.
Less than one week of harsh protests (I gave my modest
contribution) were enough to make yahoo upload a
COMPLETELY different TOS, which would be very funny to
read at its section about copyright issues, once you know of this background :o)
They tax the net and we:
a)buy less from companies
b)use less the net
c)stop voting them.
d)even demonstrate, why not? That's not yugoslavia, that's western world !
Eventually, we will see where the balance will tilt.
Subject: Re: Re: [Free-Masonry] OFF TOPIC BUT I NEED RUMOR CONTROL!
From: Leila
It is a fake. Please go to
CIAC Internet Hoaxes
to find out more about email hoxes. In 2 different emails, I received the
same one with a Canadian reference the other with an American reference. The
names and addresses listed were identical and no such person or address
existed period. It is a scam.
Subject: Re: Re: [Free-Masonry] OFF TOPIC BUT I NEED RUMOR CONTROL!
From: vallini
Hallo
It seems they say it is an hoax, despite these rumors have been confirmed by
some major reference. I dunno what's going on in the Usa, but as on the
Newsweek issue of july 19, 1999 sen. Bradley said "we don't yet know what the
internet is going to become so it doesn't make sense to talk about taxing it",
this unavoidably implies some non trivial confirmation that someone attempted
to raise the issue, despite they now try to cool it off.
I agree that it seems off topic for Free-Masonry, but after all also debating
interesting topics that produce relevant references like the following ones
constitute a valid contribution to a better knowledge.
Subject: Re: Re: [Free-Masonry] OFF TOPIC BUT I NEED RUMOR CONTROL!
From: thom
i am not running the list but masons do strive for truth, do they not?
thanks for info
Subject: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From:
Okay, i just wanted to say hello to y'all.
my name is Johnny Simpson and i just received my EA degree tues evening. I
just wanted to tell y'all hey! I was deeply impressed with the degree and I
now feel secure to say that masonary will always be a major part of my life.
I was in DeMolay (i just turned 21 this march) and it made such a profound
influence on my adolence. I am sure that Freemasonary will make the same
profound impact on my mid-life and beyond.
Just wanted to give a shout out
Johnny Simpson
Austin, TX
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From: anthony parham
Congratulations,
If you were impressed with the 1st degree, you'll definetly be
impressed with the 2nd. Good luck in your journey.
PM Anthony D. Parham
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From
Congratulations Johnny----
If you liked the first degree, you'll love the next two........
Good Luck on the rest of your Journey
Bro. Bernie Papenfoth
Star Lodge 187
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From: Ed Martin
Congratulations on your EA degree. You will enjoy the other degrees as
much as or more than this.
I was late in taking my work and it has been a rewarding journey for me I
was master of my lodge and took my proficiency work and have what Iowa
calls a Dis trict lecturer. I also went the Scottish Rite and the York
Rite. I have not been able to be active in Scottish Rite as that route is
85 miles away. The York Rite is local and I have been active in it.
I have had to cut back on my activities the last year or so. Two years ago
I injured my knee and am limited in my activities. I am also 91 and in
reasonably good health, but an still active in my Blue lodge.
I spent several winters in Harlingen Tx and visited lodge there. It is
well to visit other lodges when t raveling.to get the larger picture.
Different Grand Lodges do things slightly differently, but they get you to
the same place in the end.
Congratulations on Best wishes on your journey.
Ed Martin, PM
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From: Tom Nash
Congratulations are extended our fraternity's newest asset!
Tom Nash
Anchor No. 424
San Antonio, TX
(let's all get in the e-habit of indicating our geographic location)
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From:
Congratulations to you. I hope you enjoy your other two
degrees. I know that you will find the lessons rewarding.
Errol Hinton P.M. Island
Pond #44
Island Pond Vt
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Differences in Masonic Ritual
From: SimpsonJL2@aol.com
In a message dated 7/22/99 8:57:09 AM Central Daylight Time, edmart@lisco.net
writes:
< I spent several winters in Harlingen Tx and visited lodge there. It is
well to visit other lodges when t raveling.to get the larger picture.
Different Grand Lodges do things slightly differently, but they get you to
the same place in the end. >
that is interesting .. so what did you think of Texas masonary .. you know we
are the best state in the Union .... was it just as grandoise was everything
else in our state?
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Differences in Masonic Ritual
From:
Wasn't Sam Houston the first Grand Master of Texas?
I have been to three different jurisdictions, Maine, New
Hampshire, Massachusetts, and my own Vermont. They all vary in little ways.
But...... They all make Masons.
Errol Hinton
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From: Gordon Vincent
Johnny Simpson
Austin, TX
Dear Brother John,
You have just taken the first step in an
organisation which has been, and still is extremely important
to me. May you always get the enjoyment and fulfilment,
that I have had over the years.
God Bless You
Gordon Vincent (age 65)
Lodge Glenrothes
Fife, Scotland,
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Digest mode
From: Tejinder Singh Rawal
Can you please help me shift to the digest mode?
Regards,
Tejinder
--- note from the so called moderator: shifting to the digest mode
must be made directly by the subscriber, logging in at eGroups
and changing his/her preferences there clicking on the list/s he/she's
subscribed to ---
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Off Topic Post - Lodge Names
From:
I am just curious if there are any Brothers out there that belong to a Lodge
with an unusual name. For example, my Lodge is Leila Scott Lodge #289, F &AMp; A
M. It is the only Blue Lodge in the state of Tennessee named after a Lady.
If you want to read the history of this Lodge here is the URL:
My Web Page Index
Fraternally and POTS,
Ronald Holder, W. M.
Leila Scott Lodge #289
Memphis, TN .
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] EA Degree
From: TOM GASQUE
God Bless You Past Master Martin. Keep on keepin' on.
Tom A. Gasque,
Master Mason
Mount Zion #50 (PHA)
230 Passaic Street
Hackensack, NJ
Subject: [Free-Masonry] F&AMp;AM ... AF&AMp;AM
From: Simpson
okay ... so i've seen two differences in lodges .. can anyone explain to me
what they mean?
I see some lodges that are F&AMp;AM and some that are AF&AMp;AM .. what is the
difference? My understanding is that some lodges are "clandestine" and one
isn't suppose to discuss masonry with members of one lodge system that is not
in accord with members of another lodge system. Is this what they refer to
when they say that?
thanks for the clairification,
johnny
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AMp;AM ... AF&AMp;AM
From: Larry Bernard
Ok..... Now this is *MY* Understanding of lodge history.. in the 1700s two
rival grandlodges formed in england the gle and the ancient grand lodge of
england.. and the differences occured as an evolution from one form of
ritual or another
but i may be in err
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Paul M. Bessel
There is no difference between Lodges or Grand Lodges that use F&AM and those
that use AF&AM (or the 2 Grand Lodges that use FAAM and AFM). You can find
pretty complete details at http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/origins.htm
Fraternally,
Paul
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Larry Bernard
Ummmmmmm Their is a difference
the rituals are different from what Af&AM masons and f&AM masons have told
me
Including Masons who have done catecisms and been through the degrees in
both sets of work
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Gordon Vincent
Their was a split in the GLE into the Ancients and Moderns,
thus AF&AM and F&AM, when they had resolved their
differences they became UGLE.
WFR
Gordon Vincent
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Simpson
so does that mean that masons of the F&AM, AF&AM, FAAM, &c. are welcome at
each other's lodges? for example, i am in texas and it's AF&AM for the most
part .. but if i went to let's say another state and it was F&AM .. i would
still be able to attend a lodge meeting, right? i just started in my trek in
masonry .. so you have to excuse me if i sound naïf.
thanks
johnny simpson
hill city lodge #456
Austin, TX, USA
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Paul M. Bessel
Yes. About half the States in the U.S. have "mainstream" Grand Lodges that use
AF&AM and the other half use F&AM, and one uses FAAM and one uses AFM. Any
member of a lodge in any of them can attend a lodge in any other.
Fraternally,
Paul
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Joe
Of course, that's not so when it comes to Prince Hall Masons, is it?
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From:
As i stated before Grand Lodge of Vermont has recognized some Prince Hall
lodges. Errol Hinton
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Joe
But you are not in Vermont. So what I alluded to earlier is true for
where you live, isn't it?
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AM ... AF&AM
From: Larry Bernard
Prince hall lodge is another balliwick.. Prince Hall is different because
the whole grand lodge idea was pretty green back then
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AMp;AM ... AF&AMp;AM
From: anthony parham
There's really no difference. I am a Prince Hall Mason and I know
that Maryland and Texas Jurisdictions use different rituals. The
signs are slightly different but I was taught if you visit another lodge you
perform by what you was taught in your ritual.
PM Parham
Major Galloway Lodge #142
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] F&AMp;AM ... AF&AMp;AM
From: anthony parham
Check out this website to see if it can help you out
http://www.connecti.com/~joelbee/recog.htm
PM Parham
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall Lodges
From: James H. Matthews
I believe Colorado recognized the Prince Hall Grand
Lodge in this state. I believe this also caused West
Virginia to drop us from it's recogition list,
although I may be out of date on that.
Congratulations to Johnny Simpson on his EA and on
his efforts to learn more about Masonry. The
Internet should allow more light to shine and help men
like Johnny to carry the Lodge into the 21st Century.
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall Lodges
From: thom
az grand lodge this year extended recognition to p. h. lodges but without
the exact text of the resolution before me--we are in the process of moving
and i am doing good to find the computer even!--i am not sure if we are
ready to exchange visits yet. i understand it is p. h. that is still
working on it.
there are publications--your lodge secretary should have one--that list all
regular lodges throughout the world that are recognized. this varies from
time to time, often among foreign (non-usa) lodges. when i can find my
"stuff! :)," i'll post the name of the book. of course some of you
secretaries out there will beat me to the posting, right?
thom
j. w. and acting secretary
Ajo Lodge 36
emphasize that word "acting," our lodge has a strong-minded master! :)
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall Lodges
From: Paul M. Bessel
Thom,
The book you're thinking of is probably the Pantagraph book called List of
Lodges - Masonic. However, that book is often out of date as soon as it is
printed, and it doesn't print all the recognized Grand Lodges in the world. To
try to supplement this, the Masonic Service Association prints a sheet each
year that shows recognitions of each Grand Lodge by each GL in the U.S. and
Canada, on a spreadsheet. And to try to supplement that, which is also often
out of date, there are some webpages that deal with this subject:
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/gls.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/usrecog.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/recstand.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/pha.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/glspha.htm
I hope this helps.
Fraternally,
Paul
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall Lodges
From:
Thom, I have that book. The book issued by the Grand Lodge of
Vermont is called List of Lodges. This contains all of the recognized
Grand Lodges and the lodges under their jurisdiction. A very helpful tool.
Oh by the way my younger brother is both a member of Island Pond #44 F &AMp; AM,
in Island Pond Vermont, our home lodge, and in Siloam #92 AF &AMp; AM in
Fairfield Maine. He says that he had no trouble joining an AF &AMp; AM lodge. I
enjoy visiting lodges in other jurisdictions. I find the slight differences
in the ritual not only interesting but also enlightening.
Fraternally,
Errol Hinton PM
Island Pond #44
Subject: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall
From: Simpson
In a message dated 7/26/99 10:36:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
anthonyparham@hotmail.com writes:
<There's really no difference. I am a Prince Hall Mason and I know
that Maryland and Texas Jurisdictions use different rituals. The
signs are slightly different but I was taught if you visit another lodge you
perform by what you was taught in your ritual.>
My understanding of Texas lodge is that they don't recognize the prince hall
orders ... is that true?
thanks
johnny
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall
From: Joe
Might I step in and say, you are correct.
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall
From: Parmer
Georgia does not recognize Prince Hall, either. A shame.
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall (Instant Messege from one seeking Light)
From: MasonTruth
Brethren,
California and Prince Hall of California & Hawaii are in full Recognition.
Moreno Valley Lodge A# 804 has had visitations with Orange Valley Lodge # 13
of Riverside California and it was great to share Masonic Fellowship. It is a
great loss to both Grand Lodges of each State that do not Recognize each
other as well as a great setback for Masonry. I recently directed a young man
who happens to be Afro _American to a P.H. Lodge in a Southern State in order
to Petition for membership.. All was going well and yeaterday he wrote back
bewildered that Masons of each Grand Lodge do not recognize each other as
such. Here is his poststo me:
Subj: Send to Aubrey
Date: 7/25/99 9:25:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:
To: MasonTruth
SWATL73: Hey I got some bad knews
MasonTruth: What is that?
SWATL73: I was talking to a prince hall Mason
SWATL73: and he was telling me some good things about Masons
SWATL73: Everything was good
SWATL73: then I asked him was he still active
SWATL73: he said No.......I was shocked.
SWATL73: when I asked him why he said "That white masons and black masons
don't agree in Georgia"
SWATL73: white masons don't acknowledge black masons as real masons
SWATL73: they call them renegades
SWATL73: I was shocked by what I heard
SWATL73: and then I started thinking about when that Prince Hall Mason at
my job was talking about a white mason not acknowledging him when he threw
him a sign
MasonTruth: I told you that not all Grand Lodges are in Recognition..
THis is changing all over.. In California we are in full Recognition with
P.H. Grand Lodge... It is shocking VInce and that is why people like us have
to change things .. it is not all Prejudice, there are many other factors as
well..
SWATL73: I couldn't beleive that. If we all go through the same things
then why can't we all meet in the Lodge together as one and in Harmony
MasonTruth: Some Grand Lodges just don't get along...
In California we lead the way for Recognition but some of the Strates still
do not have it... You are right of course... All changes come with time and
effort....
SWATL73: I Thought Masonry stood for brotherhood..but if It only meant
honor thy brother unless he is a different color then where is the
brotherhood.
SWATL73: I want to change all of that but I need help. I beleive I was
guided towards Masonry for a reason, I don't know what my purpose is but I
beleive that I will change some things in Masonry...I am the future
MasonTruth: Prince Hall
Masonry Recognition Is a good site and more States Grand Lodges are
Recognizing each other..
SWATL73: ok thanks. I was so upset when I was told this
SWATL73: I don't want to be apart of something if I am viewed as a
outcast
MasonTruth: You won't.. Masonry begins in a in man's heart and that is
what counts.....I would like to see you visit alt.Free-Masonry (unread)
Good place to learn about Msasonry and ask questions... Aubrey posts there
often.
MasonTruth: I have to run and say goodbye to visitors ... Don't get
frustrated.. Masonry is Universal and starts from the heart. In al cases
Masonry will never let you down. This Recognition situation will resolve
itself as well. ....Check out the two sites I sent you... It doesn't make a
man any less a Mason because his Grand Lodge is not Recognized by another. If
a man chooses to live by Masonic Principles he should be respected for that.
It basically just means that there are certain things that cannot be
discussed with him, like our Ceremonies and modes of Identification..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
It has been months since I met this young and enrgetic young man online and
he already displays a love for our Gentle Craft. Reading his post broke my
heart and made me think of the many reasons I became a Mason.. Is a Prince
Hall Mason any less a Mason then I am? Is he less dedicated to the Craft then
I? I think not.. It is time that we as members of the Grand Lodges (Both
Grand Lodges of each State) that are not in Recognition let our
Grand Officers know in a kind and respectful manner that we are for
Recognition. I know there are a number of reasons that Recognition has not
happened in certain States. These reasons should be worked out by the
respective Grand Lodges. We must show the world that Prejudice and Bigotry
is not part of Masonry and that there is no room for it in our Gentle Craft.
Sincerely & Fraternally
Bro. Manny Blanco (Junior Warden)
Moreno Valley Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley,CA
Jurisdiction of Grand Lodge of California
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Digest Number 105
From: Danny Williams
Hello all!
Im not a mason but i have many friends and family who are. I was wondering
if there are organizations "out there" that call themselves masonic but are
not. I know of so called co-masonry which is for women. Which lodges are
recognised and which are not and how can one tell? If somebody claims that
they are a mason how can I tell if he really is?
Thanks
Dan
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Digest Number 105
From: Paul M. Bessel
There is a list of every known Masonic Grand Lodge in the world at ---
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/gls.htm
There is also information about recognition of Masonic Grand Lodges at ---
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/usrecog.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/recstand.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/bessel/recfranc.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/pha.htm
http://Free-Masonry.org/mlc/glspha.htm
Each and every Masonic Grand Lodge recognizes a different set of other Grand
Lodges. On the webpages listed above you can see the number of U.S. Grand
Lodges that recognize many of the other Grand Lodges. What it comes down to is
that each person decides for himself or herself who is a Mason. Each Grand
Lodge decides for itself which other Grand Lodges to recognize.
Fraternally,
Paul
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall
From: Cameron Brickey
Johnny,
The fact that you are still asking that question
should tell you a lot. I know for a fact that most of
the people I've seen post in this news group know the
answer. Do you know the history of Prince Hall
Masonry?
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall (Instant Messege from one seeking Light)
From: anthony parham
I understand what you are saying. I can't understand why all lodges
can't recognize each other. We aren't living in ancient times no more. Our
forefathers says all MEN are created equal and we it was
stated again that we were all created equal during the civil rights
movement. Make you wonder that if "most men can be Masons can most
Masons be men"
Bro. Parham
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Digest Number 105
From: anthony parham
There's really know way a non-mason can tell if someone is or not a
Mason; especially with all the info you can get of the web or your
local bookstore.
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall (Instant Messege from one seeking Light)
Dear Bro. Parham,
You are right of course but this is someting that the Grand Lodges with our
input must resolve. I am sure that among other not so difficult problems that
in the South there might be bigger problems to resolve. I am not sure of this
but just a guess. I know that in the end MAsonry always seems to come through
and show that we set the examples for the rest of the world.. I believe that
times are changing racially for the better and have been for sometime.. Many
people on both sides of these Grand Lodges have been brought up one way and
sometimes it is hard to change. I do not believe that it is one Grand Lodge
or the other or one set of members or the other.. We just have to keep
pushing in the right direction and our Gentle Craft will come through in
flying colors.. Am I blind to certain things? No,I have faith in the
Fraternity of which I am a member and have seen hearts soften and the right
thing done very closer to home...
SIncerely & Fraternally
Bro. Manny Blanco
Moreno Valley Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
Jur. of Grand Lodge of Ca.
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Digest Number 105
From: Christopher King
Dear Paul,
Thanks for your message and sound advice.
I would like to speak to another part of Dan's post.
When I decided that I wanted to become a
Freemason, I explored the various alternatives
and ultimately chose to petition the International
Order of Co-Free-Masonry ("Le Droit Humain")
for initiation. Co-masonry is not for women only
(I am a man!) but rather admits men and women
on equal footing. Our Supreme Council, in Paris,
is made up of roughly equal numbers of men and
women, elected from around the world,
and our current Grand Master is a gentleman
and university professor from
Iceland.
My reasons for choosing the Co-masonic route
were complex, but I acted according to my lights
and out of a commitment to social and political equality
between the sexes. I have not for a moment regretted the
decision, though it places me outside the
current of mainstream Free-Masonry in the USA.
Maybe the times are changing, though. Recently,
my Co-masonic lodge (Unity #359, Orient of Oakland)
was invited to give an evening lecture to the Mill Valley Lodge
(Grand Lodge of California), and we were not only warmly
received but many of the Regular Masons in
attendance expressed admiration for our work and
much surprise at the integrity of the Order. Of course,
we weren't invited to any lodge workings with the F&AM
brethren, but the atmosphere at the meeting was
nevertheless genuinely fraternal.
International Co-Free-Masonry recognizes many
obediences and jurisdictions, including all Grand
Lodges affiliated with the Grand Lodge of England
as well as all Free and Accepted Grand Lodges
of the USA and Prince Hall lodges. With certain case
by case restrictions, we share reciprocal relations and
visitation rights with the Grand Orient de France, the Grande
Loge de France and several other national bodies. In the USA,
we are currently forming cooperative lodges with brothers of t
he Grand Orient, using the Scottish Rite.
It seems to me that even if our respective Grand Lodges
or Supreme Councils place certain limits on our ritual
participation with other obediences, we should feel free to
recognize and acknowledge genuine Masonic qualities
in those whose Masonic practice or understanding of the
Landmarks differs from our own.
Fraternally,
Christopher King
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Digest Number 105
From: Paul M. Bessel
Bro. Christopher,
I respect what you have said, and from what I
have heard and read, both of the Co-Masonic
groups in the U.S. do good work in terms of character
building, morality, etc., although I believe they are still not on good terms with each other.
Also, as you pointed out, there is a large difference
between (a) being polite and even friendly with those
who belong to different types of Masonic organizations,
(b) recognizing various Grand Lodges and their members,
and (c) mixing both genders into "mainstream" Masonic
lodges. Unfortunately, sometimes when someone speaks
about (a) -- meaning just being polite and talking to those
who belong to female-only Grand Lodges, and those who
belong to Co-Masonry -- some people immediately respond
as if (c) were being proposed.
Also, almost all "mainstream" Masons are very
supportive and proud of Eastern Star Chapters and
the Order of the Amaranth, but are very much opposed
to female-only or mixed-gender Masonic lodges.
I am not sure why, since no one would even think
of trying to force a male-only lodge member to
participate in Eastern Star, Amaranth, female-only Masonic lodges, or Co-Masonry.
Fraternally,
Paul
Subject: Re: [Free-Masonry] Prince Hall (Instant Messege from one seeking Light)
From: Simpson
In a message dated 7/29/99 7:46:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
anthonyparham@hotmail.com writes:
<I understand what you are saying. I can't understand why all lodges
can't recognize each other. We aren't living in ancient times no more. Our
forefathers says all MEN are created equal and we it was
stated again that we were all created equal during the civil rights
movement. Make you wonder that if "most men can be Masons can most
Masons be men" >
i agree too, i mean isn't there a way to go about changing and bringing the
lodges close together? maybe a separate but equal policy (not that this is
the best one, but probly the most ready to accept by both sides).
later gators
johnny simpson, EA
hill city lodge #456 AF&AM
Austin, TX, USA
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