Babble v1 113

babble-digest Tuesday, January 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 113

In this issue:
DHTML, XML, CSS
Re: background image-map
Delivery Report
Delivery Report
Delivery Report
Delivery Report
Re: background image-map
IMAGE MAP QUESTION
Re: TECH: Re: JPEG's leave pinkish "residue" on pages
Hey everyone
Re: TECH: Re: JPEG's leave pinkish "residue" on pages
ending issue
Re: IMAGE MAP QUESTION
Re: Hey everyone
html police and thanks
Re: TECH: JPEG's leave pinkish "residue" on pages
Re: IMAGE MAP QUESTION
Re: html police and thanks
Re: IMAGE MAP QUESTION

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:45:54 +0000
From: douglas farrick <dfarrick@javanet.com>
Subject: DHTML, XML, CSS

I am interested in learning more about DHTML, CSS. Could anyone out
there recommend books or sites than lean toward a beginner. Thanks.
Doug.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:28:38 +1100
From: "Yalcin Yilmaz" <yyilmaz@catapult.com.au>
Subject: Re: background image-map

>
> Hola - Could anyone tell me if you can image-map a background image. If
so,
> how the heck do you do it?
>
> thanks
>
> michael fegan
> feganmic@pilot.msu.edu
>

You can do this (I believe) using <layer>'s. I'm not sure if IE supports
this, but NN4 does. The background image (with map intact) goes on a
bottom layer. The rest of your content goes onto another layer, on top of
the "background" layer. As for tiling this background.. have fun doing it
manually. I've never tried this (I've never thought of mapping a
background image before) and don't really think it would be advisable even
if it worked, since hyperlinks overlapping on different layers could - who
knows what it could do?

Let me know if it works (ie does what you want it to do) :::-)

| Yalcin Yilmaz
| yyilmaz@catapult.com.au
| http://www.catapult.com.au
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:17:56 +0200
From: andrey <andrey@bwc.org>
Subject: Re: background image-map

> > Hola - Could anyone tell me if you can image-map a background
> image. If
> so,
> > how the heck do you do it?
>
> You can do this (I believe) using <layer>'s. I'm not sure if IE
> supports
> this, but NN4 does. The background image (with map intact) goes on a
> bottom layer. The rest of your content goes onto another layer, on top
> of
> the "background" layer. As for tiling this background.. have fun doing
> it
> manually. I've never tried this (I've never thought of mapping a
> background image before) and don't really think it would be advisable
> even
> if it worked, since hyperlinks overlapping on different layers could -
> who
> knows what it could do?

Hey, guys,

i did once exactly what you are talking about: "background image map",
tiling background images and ... yeah, and i made everything move as
well. It's quite easy task for dhtml, but i did it quite long time ago
in before-dhtml-layers era. My approach was to use cleardot gif as image
map covering background image...

Have a look at http://www.falkondesign.com/coffeeshop and you will
understand how it works.

Regards,
a.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 16:29:22 +0100
From: Filippo Spiezia <filippo@ideagrafica.it>
Subject: IMAGE MAP QUESTION

hi all
this is a test page: http://ideagrafica.it/marigo/

in this page i putted various file that forms a picture...
in some file there is a link. After that i put the link
the other images send away a little and this is
a wrong error, and i have the final picture that has
some pixel with the background, i dont like this

how i can to set this error...
without the image map files this dont happen....

can somebody help me?
thanks filippo spiezia

mailto:filippo@ideagrafica.it URL:http://www.ideagrafica.it

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:57:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Ostroth <marost@vangogh.bergen.org>
Subject: Re: TECH: Re: JPEG's leave pinkish "residue" on pages

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Porter Glendinning wrote:

> At 07:06 PM 1/5/98 EST, TheGilster wrote:
> >Dear List,
> > This could be a newbie question. I created a page with a white
> >background and when i visit the site in IE 4.0, the jpeg's seem to have a
> pink
> >"residue" surrounding the images. Can anyone explain this and how I could
> fix
> >this problem for the future.
> [snip]
>
> Without being able to see the image in question, I would bet that it's just
> the normal rippling that can happen in JPEGs when areas of flat color
> border an area of another color.

This is my exact problem...

It has nothing to do with how the JPG was compressed, since I viewed the
same JPEG image in both IE4 and Netscape 3, and noticed that there was no
pink residue in Netscape. When surfing the web in IE4, even IBM.com had
pink artifacts all over its JPEGs.

I contacted a Microsoft Helpdesk technical help person and asked about it.
He offered no help but did lead me to belive that my problem had 2 or 3
origins:

1. My video card was causing conflicts.

I have an S3 TrioV64+ video card, and even though its use is widespread,
it may not have been tested by Microsoft before the release of IE4. The
Microsoft help representative told me that video card conflicts were
noticed with the Matrox Millenium, but not with this card.

2. The video card drivers are not up to date.

I checked the S3 website and downloaded the latest drivers, but this
didn't help with the pink image problem in Internet Explorer.

3. A corrupt installation of IE4.

Months ago, I downloaded the IE4 Preview Release 1. When I found that it
was messing around with my computer, I uninstalled it using the Control
Panel > Add/Remove Programs utility. I know for a fact that this does not
completely remove the program.
Then I downloaded and installed the Full Install of IE4 after its official
full release. This is when I noticed the pink problem.
Then I uninstalled that in the same manner and installed a copy right off
of the MSN cd that Microsoft was happy to send me. Still no help.

I am almost certain that formatting my hard drive and reinstalling Windows
95 will be the answer, but who has the time to do all that, anyway?

I hope this has shown how hopeless your problem really is.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:00:15 -0000
From: "Carla " <cmarina@sprynet.com>
Subject: Hey everyone

I'm new been sitting in on you guys for about a month and never asked a
question. I have one now....I've started using a shareware program that
works great...but now I'm finding out more about style sheets and I want
em...How do I get em, from the impression I'm getting from the program,
it's some sort of plug-in right?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carla Maganinho
CB Media
ICQ# 5128418
Cmarina@sprynet.com or Carla@cb-media.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cmarina
http://www.cb-media.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:41:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Porter Glendinning <ag@cen.com>
Subject: Re: TECH: Re: JPEG's leave pinkish "residue" on pages

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Mark Ostroth wrote:
[snip]
> It has nothing to do with how the JPG was compressed, since I viewed the
> same JPEG image in both IE4 and Netscape 3, and noticed that there was no
> pink residue in Netscape. When surfing the web in IE4, even IBM.com had
> pink artifacts all over its JPEGs.
[snip]
> I am almost certain that formatting my hard drive and reinstalling Windows
> 95 will be the answer, but who has the time to do all that, anyway?

<RANT TYPE="MicrosoftBashing">
Ahh... I didn't realize I was up against yet another example of Microsoft
wanting everyone to view the world through their rose-colored glasses --
quite literally.
</RANT>

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:53:21 -0500
From: Gene Lewis <gene@digitalpulp.com>
Subject: ending issue

> > > Hola - Could anyone tell me if you can image-map a background
> > image. If
> > so,
> > > how the heck do you do it?
> >

Audrey wrote:
>
> i did once exactly what you are talking about: "background image map",
> tiling background images and ... yeah, and i made everything move as
> well. It's quite easy task for dhtml, but i did it quite long time ago
> in before-dhtml-layers era. My approach was to use cleardot gif as image
> map covering background image...
>
> Have a look at http://www.falkondesign.com/coffeeshop and you will
> understand how it works.
>
> Regards,
> a.
>
> ..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html
> ..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to majordomo@highfive.com:
> ."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"

There is no way to image-map a background image. Period.

There are loopholes using other methods (such as the one above which
does not image map anything, but rather selects an entire area) and
other format contexts (DHTML), but HTML does not support an
image-related control over anything placed inside of the <BODY> tag. I
would be curious to know what is being attempted and then try to solve
that problem.

- -Gene
- --
Gene Lewis.........................Digital Pulp Inc.
gene@digitalpulp.com...............220 East 23rd Street
•vox:: 212.679.0676 x225...........Suite 1007
•fax:: 212.679.0463................New York, N.Y. 10010

_____w w w . d i g i t a l p u l p . c o m______
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:25:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Newell <matt@ns.qnis.net>
Subject: Re: IMAGE MAP QUESTION

well...

i like that design a lot. kinda has the retro/industrial action. but im
not sure as to your question.. sorry i lost something in the translation.

oh.. set your cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 and you wont have the spaces
tween the differnt pieces.

-- jEsTeR

www.sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
jester@sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
whatever is not nailed down is mine;
what i can pry loose, is not nailed down

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Filippo Spiezia wrote:

> hi all
> this is a test page: http://ideagrafica.it/marigo/
>
> in this page i putted various file that forms a picture...
> in some file there is a link. After that i put the link
> the other images send away a little and this is
> a wrong error, and i have the final picture that has
> some pixel with the background, i dont like this
>
> how i can to set this error...
> without the image map files this dont happen....
>
> can somebody help me?
> thanks filippo spiezia
>
> mailto:filippo@ideagrafica.it URL:http://www.ideagrafica.it
>
> ..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html
> ..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to majordomo@highfive.com:
> ."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:36:06 -0800
From: Luis Cota <softech@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Hey everyone

Actually, style sheets aren't a plug in, they are just kind of like
separate files that describe the layout of your page. With a style
sheet, you can, for example, set the overall color scheme for all of
your pages providing that they all use that style sheet. go to
http://www.killersites.com and go to the style sheets section. You will
find good resources there.

Luis Cota

Carla wrote:
>
> I'm new been sitting in on you guys for about a month and never asked a
> question. I have one now....I've started using a shareware program that
> works great...but now I'm finding out more about style sheets and I want
> em...How do I get em, from the impression I'm getting from the program,
> it's some sort of plug-in right?
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Carla Maganinho
> CB Media
> ICQ# 5128418
> Cmarina@sprynet.com or Carla@cb-media.com
> http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cmarina
> http://www.cb-media.com
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> ..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html
> ..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to majordomo@highfive.com:
> ."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:51:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael Patrick Fegan II" <feganmic@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: html police and thanks

Gene wrote

<snip>
There is no way to image-map a background image. Period.

i didn't know html had enforcers. Isn't part of the fun of this medium
finding the loopholes and new ways to do things (at least it's one of the cool
parts of this listserv for me). I didn't think you could image-map a background
image, but the ingenious, creative people on this list-serv proved me wrong.
Thanks for proving me wrong folks.

Michael Fegan
Technology Projects
Michigan State University Writing Center
feganmic@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:30:16 -0600
From: "Damien M. Jones" <dmj@fractalus.com>
Subject: Re: TECH: JPEG's leave pinkish "residue" on pages

Mark,

- It has nothing to do with how the JPG was compressed, since I viewed the
- same JPEG image in both IE4 and Netscape 3, and noticed that there was no
- pink residue in Netscape. When surfing the web in IE4, even IBM.com had
- pink artifacts all over its JPEGs.

When JPEGs are decompressed, there are several algorithms which can be
used. One is to use integer math, which is often faster than
floating-point math, but is less accurate. The result is that certain
shades of color--particularly apparent in solid areas--may be slightly "off".

This is not a problem for most people, because they run in 16-bit or [bleh]
8-bit color. But IE4 introduces a new "feature": on 16-bit displays, it
dithers images to simulate 24-bit color. This seems to cause problems when
decompressing JPEGs, particularly when they're on a white background. I
ran into this with a page I'm building--try though I might, I could *not*
get IE4 to decompress the JPEG so the outside areas were pure white. This
is not a driver problem--that's just MS passing the buck for a little bit
of sloppy programming. (Hello? Microsoft? Pentium FPUs are fast enough
you don't *need* the integer routine...)

To get around the problem, I made a background image that was the same
off-white shade that IE4 dithers to. This took a little experimentation.
I'd post a URL to the page, but it isn't finished yet. Netscape browsers
don't seem to exhibit this problem.

Damien M. Jones \\
dmj@fractalus.com \\ http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
\\ http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:33:23 -0500
From: "Dana Adams" <dana@studiowerks.com>
Subject: Re: IMAGE MAP QUESTION

Matt wrote:
> oh.. set your cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 and you wont have the spaces
> tween the differnt pieces.

He already did that -- look at the page source ;)

The table image morticing renders fine in MSIE 3.x but not in NC 4.0 - I
had this very problem not too long ago with a NN 2.x browser on my
daughter's class web site ( http://www.studiowerks.com/ues/dinoweb.htm ).

Two things are happening here that I can see:

1. The table is not centering in Netscape but is OK in IE. This is because
IE recognizes the <p align=center> tag as a directive to center the table.
Netscape needs the align=center attribute in the <table> tag. It's OK to
use both to ensure proper display across browsers.

2. The images are not morticing properly in Netscape but are OK in IE. I
would do three things... (A) Page Mill is inserting the <map> tags in the
table body - I'd move them to the bottom of the code, outside the table,
for clarity. (B) Remove the <p align=center></p> tag pair located *inside
the table. (C) Eliminate all spaces between each of the <img> tags for each
rank so it would look like:

<map></map>
<map></map>
<map></map>
etc...

That should help...

d a n a a d a m s
s t u d i o w e r k s

dana@studiowerks.com
http://www.studiowerks.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:20:28 +0200
From: andrey <andrey@bwc.org>
Subject: Re: html police and thanks

Michael Patrick Fegan II wrote:

> Gene wrote:
> There is no way to image-map a background image. Period.

> i didn't know html had enforcers. Isn't part of the fun of this
> medium
> finding the loopholes and new ways to do things (at least it's one of
> the cool
> parts of this listserv for me). I didn't think you could image-map a
> background
> image, but the ingenious, creative people on this list-serv proved me
> wrong.
> Thanks for proving me wrong folks.

Thanks Michael,

i never applied that background image map exists, i just said that i
made something which works like it :), clear dot gif covering
background... there was no other way that time to create effect i
needed: http://www.falkondesign.com/coffeeshop

Regards,
a.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:23:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Newell <matt@ns.qnis.net>
Subject: Re: IMAGE MAP QUESTION

> Matt wrote:
> > oh.. set your cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 and you wont have the spaces
> > tween the differnt pieces.
>
> He already did that -- look at the page source ;)
>
> The table image morticing renders fine in MSIE 3.x but not in NC 4.0 - I
> had this very problem not too long ago with a NN 2.x browser on my
> daughter's class web site ( http://www.studiowerks.com/ues/dinoweb.htm ).
>
> Two things are happening here that I can see:
>

i try to stay away from align=center as much as *possible* and just center
the table and be done with it.. this is a problem with the whizzywhig
editors.. as you cant tell it "how" to do what you want.

> 1. The table is not centering in Netscape but is OK in IE. This is because
> IE recognizes the <p align=center> tag as a directive to center the table.
> Netscape needs the align=center attribute in the <table> tag. It's OK to
> use both to ensure proper display across browsers.
>
> 2. The images are not morticing properly in Netscape but are OK in IE. I
> would do three things... (A) Page Mill is inserting the <map> tags in the
> table body - I'd move them to the bottom of the code, outside the table,
> for clarity. (B) Remove the <p align=center></p> tag pair located *inside
> the table. (C) Eliminate all spaces between each of the <img> tags for each
> rank so it would look like:

/me nods.
>
> <table><tr><td>
> <img1...><img2...><img3...><img4...><img5...><br>
> <img6...><img7...><br>
> <img8...><img9...><img10...><br>
> </td></tr></table>
>
> <map></map>
> <map></map>
> <map></map>
> etc...
>

it seems that someone with that much design ability should take the time
to learn html the right way to showcase their ability (not a bash.. but
honestly)

using a program like that creates a lot of extra weighted code and wont do
the actions as precisely and accurately on all browsers as hand coding
it..

but i guess thats just the endless cycle..

thanx for setting me straight on that dana.

(i used the "image butting up against each other" method to cheat tables
on my site also... it works.. amazingly with both browsers... gotta love
it.)

matt newell
jester@sweetillusions.org
www.sweetillusions.org

------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #113
****************************

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