Babble v1 153

babble-digest Wednesday, January 21 1998 Volume 01 : Number 153

In this issue:
HTML: Is it frames or CSS?
FW: WATCH OUT!
Re: scrollbars=0 ?
Re: rollover-to-image map
Scrolling=0, Scrollbars=0
Re: scrollbars=0 ?
Problems with list ?
New to the list
Hebrew anybody ?
THECH : Dreamweaver and aliases
Re: babble-digest V1 #151
js under NS3.0
Re: js under NS3.0
QuickWeb for speed...
Re: was "web speed"
Re: TECH : Dreamweaver and aliases
OT: Re: was "web speed"
RE: babble-digest V1 #100

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:02:45 -0500
From: Andrew Zimmerman <zimmerma@hear.net>
Subject: HTML: Is it frames or CSS?

Got a quandry here: I am working on a web app that uses nested framesets
to create a border around the actual content. The content frames use CSS
to absolutely position content.

When I resize the window, I lose all the CSS until I hit the "reload"
button. I have not seen this behavior before in either nested framesets
nor CSS pages. Has anybody had a similar result?

I am using Miscommunicator 4.04 for Mac. As I am behind a firewall I
cannot easily upload this for public view, but if necessary I will.

Any suggestions?

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:54:10 -0600
From: "Rose, Keith W" <kwrose@ingr.com>
Subject: FW: WATCH OUT!

Keith Rose
Graphic Design
(205) 730-4047

> ----------
> From: Rose-KD[SMTP:Rose-KD@exchange1.redstone.army.mil]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 7:30 AM
> To: Rose, Keith W
> Subject: FW: WATCH OUT!
>
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: AARON Beldner[SMTP:patriotman@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 8:35 PM
> > To: bubba1966@aol.com; PRECBLUE@HOTMAIL.COM;
> > dewey@huntsville.cncfamily.com; balderdash@worldnet.att.net;
> > Rose-KD@exchange1.redstone.army.mil; belch@earthlink.net;
> > GSTORM@AIRNET.NET; TIGER_GUY77@HOTMAIL.COM
> > Subject: WATCH OUT!
> >
> > For anyone using INTERNET mail:
> > > >
> > > > There is a virus out now being sent to people via email (ON
> > THE
> > > > INTERNET)...it is called the A.I.D.S. VIRUS.
> > > > It will destroy your memory, sound card and speakers, hard
> > > drive and
> > > > it will infect your mouse or pointing device..as well as
> your
> >
> > > > keyboards making what you type not able to register on the
> > > screen. It
> > > > self terminates only after it eats 5MB of hard drive space
> &
> > > will
> > > > delete all programs.
> > > > It will come via E-mail called "OPEN: VERY COOL! :)".
> Delete
> > it
> > > > immediately!! It will basically render your computer
> > useless.
> > > PASS
> > > > IT ON QUICKLY & TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE!! THANKS!
> > > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 08:27:56 -0400
From: Matt Snow <snow@portland.com>
Subject: Re: scrollbars=0 ?

>I'm finding that using the following code to create a pop-up window
>works fine in NN3 and NN4 (mac) but in IE4 the scrollbar pops in there.
>I've used both scrollbars=0 and scrollbars=no. Neither works. I must
>say I'm still using the most recent IE4 preview release. That may have
>been fixed in the final release. Anyone have any insights here?
>
>function openWindow() {
> popupWin = window.open('window.html', 'remote',
>'status,resizable,scrollbars=0,width=100,height=120')
>}

erik, I found the same problem on one of my sites last night. what a
coincidence. i made the width of the window five pixels wider, and in
doing so the horizontal AND vertical scroll bars dissapeared.
if there is a better way, i would love to hear it.
matt

________________________. matt snow
_________________________.. designer
___________________________... new media development group
______________________________.... http://www.nmdg.com
___________________________________..... snow@portland.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:26:45 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: Re: rollover-to-image map

At 10:06 PM 1/20/98 -0800, Ben Curtis wrote:
[snip]
> I'm a firm believer in the adage that you can't bug-hunt if you can't
build.
> Porter's demonstrations are brilliant and much appreciated, but I hope
people
>are inspired by them, rather than copying them.
[snip]

I would like to second this -- no, not just the "brilliant" part -- the bit
about using my demos as a starting point. The things I post are more or
less a "Proof of Concept," not a fully-tooled, cut-and-paste cure-all for
all your JavaScripting and HTML woes. Think of them as clip art; you would
never just take a piece of clip art and slap it into a design and call it
done, would you? My demos are the same way. They usually are in need of
some fine adjustments in order to make them exactly suit your needs.

When someone posts to the list: "Can I use JavaScript to make elephants
dance across my browser?" I look for a way to say: "Yes, and here's one way
to do it." But never: "Yes you can, and I've already done it for you.
Here's your solution."

The corollary to this idea is that if you look at any of my examples and
see some refinement that can be made to improve them, by all means tell me,
or post your own version to the list. It will only improve the creative
foundation we have to work from.

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:32:33 +0200
From: Craig Mason-Jones <craig@lateral.co.za>
Subject: Scrolling=0, Scrollbars=0

The no scollbars options all work for NN's, but for IE3 (I've not tried it on IE4),
you need:
scrolling="no"
I suspect this one also works on NN, but being a little paranoid, I always use
everything.
Yours, Craig
- --
Craig Mason-Jones, Director, Lateral Alternative Computer Consultancy
21 Hastings, Tamboerskloof, 8001, Cape Town, South Africa
Tel: +27 21 234960 Fax: +27 21 234951 Cell: +27 82 771 8570
eMail: craig@lateral.co.za Web: http://lateral.co.za/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:56:32 -0500
From: mike randall <mrandall@imcinternet.net>
Subject: Re: scrollbars=0 ?

> >I've used both scrollbars=0 and scrollbars=no. Neither works. I must

> >function openWindow() {
> > popupWin = window.open('window.html', 'remote',
> >'status,resizable,scrollbars=0,width=100,height=120')

> if there is a better way, i would love to hear it.

try "scrolling=no"

- --
michael randall
webmaster, interactive marketing corporation
ph. 203 288 5690 (ext. 106) tf. 800 840 9989
mrandall@imcinternet.net
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:33:36 -0500
From: Carlos J Roldan <croldan@pragma.com.co>
Subject: Problems with list ?

What happened with the list?
- --
- ----------car|º5 j. rº|dáN----------
di5eÑadºr 9ráficº / 9rap#ic desi9ner
- --PRAGMA || http://www.pragma.com.co

- ----per5ºna| 5i7e / pá9iNa per5ºna|----
|| http://www.pragma.com.co/reptilia ||
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:18:39 -0800
From: bnewman@imaginemedia.com (Ben Newman)
Subject: New to the list

Hello, I just joined this mailing list and thought I would say hi. My name
is Ben Newman and I'm originally from Seattle. A couple of years ago I
Graduated from The Evergreen State College with a degree in theatre/3-D
animation. Not relishing the thought of being a Microsoft temp, I fled the
Northwest for California, and since then I've been working as a web
master/developer in San Francisco. For a list of sites I've worked on
check out my personal web page at http://www.gawth.com/~shocking/ I look
forward to sharing ideas and techniques with the people here, and am
already quite impressed with he posts I've seen in the past couple of days.

Ben Newman
Web Developer
www.shoppinglab.com
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:31:48 +0200
From: Hanan Cohen <hananc@bashan.co.il>
Subject: Hebrew anybody ?

I am an Israeli Web developer publishing in Hebrew.
If there is anybody on this list interested in discussing Hebrew
subjects, please contact me privately or through this list.

(Do you who wonder what's so special about Hebrew? Hebrew is written
from right to left and uses characters high up the Ascii table. There
are
THREE "standards" for publishing Hebrew on the Web. Now you see ?)

- --
Hanan Cohen
Bashan Systems - Jerusalem - http://www.bashan.co.il
Kibbutz Tamuz - Beit Shemesh

***Love and Peace***
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:28:27 +0200
From: Hanan Cohen <hananc@bashan.co.il>
Subject: THECH : Dreamweaver and aliases

I have been trying to use Dreamweaver but was unable to do so with our
company's sites organization standard because we are using aliases
(NT/IIS).
Here is a brief description of our company's standard.

Root
Project
Docs
Webroot
Html
Images

At the HTML level it looks like this : <IMG SRC =
"/Project/Images/image.gif">
The alias "Project" stands for "/root/project/webroot".
This is an easy and clear way to develop web sites if you own the
server.

I have contacted a Macromedia Web developer and she wrote me that I can
not use Dreamweaver and aliases.

Here is what she wrote me :
<snip>
I tried a couple different ways but couldn't come up with anything. In
essence, the path to the image must be the same on both the server and
your
hard drive in order for Dreamweaver to be able to find and display it.
</snip>

So, don't consider Dreamweaver if you are using aliases (I think they
are called "shortcuts" in Unix).

- --
Hanan Cohen
Bashan Systems - Jerusalem
Kibbutz Tamuz - Beit Shemesh

***Love and Peace***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:32:26 -0500
From: "jannes" <binzip@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: babble-digest V1 #151

Hi folks,
I need to password protect certain files. I'm not sure how to go about doing
this, but i'm leaning to pearl to see if i can make a script that will check
a string and make up a page (that will have links to the files) depending on
the string. but i'm worried that a person might be able to download the
script and peer into it.
If this isn't going to work, what should i use? and if it will work, is
there a better way that i should use instead? thanks.

binzip@francomm.com

(PS~ i tried to look up pages on protecting files or directories, but all i
could find was documents on UNIX protection. The site i'm using this on is
on a Win NT server, and i'm assuming that's why nothing those docs said
worked. if anyone knows how i can to something like that in NT, it would
help a LOT. ;))

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:37:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Kevin Cheng <chengn@sfu.ca>
Subject: js under NS3.0

hey babblers,

anyone know what differences there are in JS support for NS 3.0 compared
to 4.0 browsers? i'm finding that my code is crashing at an
<body onLoad="javascript:functionname();"> claiming at the colon that it
is expecting a semicolon.

it also claims a do-while loop is a syntax error.

any clues?

the url of the puzzle is at www.sfu.ca/~chengn (the top right grid). it
uses an extensive amount of JS frame swapping (as mentioned in an earlier
thread) as well as some other tid bits. as i said, works under 4.0
browsers but gives me 10 JS errors in NS3.0.

thanks,

kev

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:58:58 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: Re: js under NS3.0

At 02:37 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Kevin Cheng wrote:
[snip]
>anyone know what differences there are in JS support for NS 3.0 compared
>to 4.0 browsers? i'm finding that my code is crashing at an
><body onLoad="javascript:functionname();"> claiming at the colon that it
>is expecting a semicolon.
>
>it also claims a do-while loop is a syntax error.
[snip]

In event handlers, such as onLoad, the "javascript:" is not needed; only JS
executes those handlers (unlike using JS in the HREF of a link). Remove it
and you should be OK all 'round. Also, the do...while statement wasn't
implemented until NS4's version of JS which is why you're getting that
error in NS3.

Here are the URLs to Netscape's JavaScript Guides for NS3 and 4 and their
JavaScript Reference for NS4. (Sorry about the wrapping.):

JS Guide (3.x)
http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/3.0/handbook/javascript/

JS Guide (4.x)
http://developer.netscape.com/library/documentation/communicator/jsguide4/in
dex.htm

JSReference (4.x)
http://developer.netscape.com/library/documentation/communicator/jsref/index
.htm

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:57:03 -0500
From: Tari Akpodiete <tari@sympatico.ca>
Subject: QuickWeb for speed...

According to Associated Press today:

"The World Wide Wait may be over. Internet surfers will be able to
download images twice as fast over regular phone lines without any
special equipment or software - but it'll add about $5 to monthly access
fees, Intel announced yesterday.

The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called
servrs that Internet services use to store and relay data. The
combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all
graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting access speed.

"The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Preston,
Internet marketing manager for Intel.

For years, a big complaint about the Internet has been the long download
times required for graphics and data-hogging files over a typical 28.8
kilo-bit-per-second modem.

We're at a place right now where the general consumer on the Web has hit
a frustration point, said Tim Bajarin, president of Creative Strategies
Research International in San Jose, CA.

He noted the increase in speed through Quick Web varies, depending on
the content of the Web page. Text won't get much boost, if any, but some
graphics could be more than twice as fast - even seven times as fast.

A demonstration at the Intel Architecture Lab based in Hillsboro, using
two identical laptop computers hooked to the same telephone line, showed
the Quick Web system significantly speeded up downloads of
graphics-and-photo-laden Websites.

Intel has already lined up Internet service providers Netcom, Erols and
GlobalCentre to offer the service, available as early as Monday.

Intel chips are 90 per cent of the world's personal computers."

- --
...Webmaster Training Coordinator at Digital Media Studios......
...http://www.h-plus-a.com/dms-itdc/studios/studiow.htm.........
...Creator of The Web Publishing Resource Guide (aka TheWPRG)...
...on America Online - http://members.aol.com/thewprg/ .........
...ICQ Internet Pager - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2131290 .......
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:19:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Newell <matt@ns.qnis.net>
Subject: Re: was "web speed"

i just read something on wired.com (yesterday) as a matter of fact about a
partnership of support between compaq, intel and most of the baby bells to
support some version of ADSL that would equal about a T1 to a personal
residence, with 1.45 mbps down stream while being symmetrcial, unlike 56K
and other flavorable alternatives.

if this becomes true, i would order about 5 of these new lines (that run
on current copper lines btw) and start a web hosting service with the most
bandwidth around (until someone else figured out to do it too ;)

a t1 to my bedroom, wow. quake would be so much more fun then...

-- jEsTeR

www.sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
jester@sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
whatever is not nailed down is mine;
what i can pry loose, is not nailed down

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Tari Akpodiete wrote:

> According to Associated Press today:
>
> "The World Wide Wait may be over. Internet surfers will be able to
> download images twice as fast over regular phone lines without any
> special equipment or software - but it'll add about $5 to monthly access
> fees, Intel announced yesterday.
>
> The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called
> servrs that Internet services use to store and relay data. The
> combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all
> graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting access speed.
>
> "The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Preston,
> Internet marketing manager for Intel.
>
> For years, a big complaint about the Internet has been the long download
> times required for graphics and data-hogging files over a typical 28.8
> kilo-bit-per-second modem.
>
> We're at a place right now where the general consumer on the Web has hit
> a frustration point, said Tim Bajarin, president of Creative Strategies
> Research International in San Jose, CA.
>
> He noted the increase in speed through Quick Web varies, depending on
> the content of the Web page. Text won't get much boost, if any, but some
> graphics could be more than twice as fast - even seven times as fast.
>
> A demonstration at the Intel Architecture Lab based in Hillsboro, using
> two identical laptop computers hooked to the same telephone line, showed
> the Quick Web system significantly speeded up downloads of
> graphics-and-photo-laden Websites.
>
> Intel has already lined up Internet service providers Netcom, Erols and
> GlobalCentre to offer the service, available as early as Monday.
>
> Intel chips are 90 per cent of the world's personal computers."
>
> --
> ...Webmaster Training Coordinator at Digital Media Studios......
> ...http://www.h-plus-a.com/dms-itdc/studios/studiow.htm.........
> ...Creator of The Web Publishing Resource Guide (aka TheWPRG)...
> ...on America Online - http://members.aol.com/thewprg/ .........
> ...ICQ Internet Pager - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2131290 .......
> ..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html
> ..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to majordomo@highfive.com:
> ."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:30:58 +0800
From: Chris McLay <chris@eycon.com.au>
Subject: Re: TECH : Dreamweaver and aliases

At 5:28 AM +0800 22/1/98, Hanan Cohen wrote:

>So, don't consider Dreamweaver if you are using aliases (I think they
>are called "shortcuts" in Unix).

We lease some servers and have a similar situation, in that because of
server seetings and use of alias's on the server, it is not possible to
match our local source with whats goes on the server. Because of this it is
not easy to get automatic systems that keep the server up to date.

This problem is not particular to Dreamweaver, we also use SiteMill and it
has similar problems. I haven't found a system that would work with our
servers, but would not change the servers for security/efficiency reasons.

This is not a major problem, you just need to be aware of it, and think for
yourself. I have been using Dreamweaver heavily for the last month or so,
and except for a few bugs (fix them please), have found it to be very good.
Particularly in the early stages of development, as it helps to get
something that "works" together quickly so the client can approve it, and
we can get on with building the site.

Chris

___________________________________________________________________________

Chris McLay E y c o n S t u d i o
managing director
3b Hubble Street, East Fremantle WA 6158, Australia
Email chris@eycon.com.au Web http://www.eycon.com.au/
Telephone 08 9339 0909 Mobile 041 123 9190 Facsimile 08 9339 0808
___________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:24:12 -0500
From: Dana Adams <dana@studiowerks.com>
Subject: OT: Re: was "web speed"

Matt Newell wrote:
~snip~
> support some version of ADSL that would equal about a T1 to a personal
> residence, with 1.45 mbps down stream while being symmetrcial, unlike
> 56K and other flavorable alternatives.

ADSL - Asynchronous Digital Subscriber Line is just like X2 & KFlex,
only faster. It requires a special modem at both the residence/business
and POP. In theory it can replace your voice line and would support
simultaneous voice and data transmissions. *But*, it's still slow-up,
fast-down like X2 & KFlex.

Interestingly enough Bell Atlantic (for those in the North East,
formerly NYNEX) is not embracing xDSL (many flavors) -- Typical,
everybody else gets to surf on the information superhighway while us
poor hicks slog through on the information cow path ;)

- --
s t u d i o w e r k s
mailto:dana@studiowerks.com | http://www.studiowerks.com
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:18:06 +0100 (MET)
From: emil.tso@sap-ag.de (Emil Tso)
Subject: RE: babble-digest V1 #100

Yeah, I heard the Dreamweaver is alot powerful than frontpage. It also
write JavaScript for you in the program.
Strongly recommended.

- -ET

- -----Original Message-----
From: June Elliott On Behalf Of UX-babble@highfive.com
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 4:01 PM
To: Emil Tso
Cc: ... (3 Recipients)
Subject: babble-digest V1 #100

- ----------------------------- Note--------------------------
Steve and Emil,
In this email, they discuss using Macromedia's Dreamweaver instead of
FrontPage. Do you guys know anything about it?
J

- ------------------------- End of note-----------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #153
****************************

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