Babble v1 187

babble-digest Friday, February 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 187

In this issue:
RE: Here Goes another Site Check
measure the screen?
Re: The first unofficial Babble Archive
Re: trademark cost
Pre-Load script Needed
Re: IE4 Mac CSS Problems
Re: IE4 Mac CSS Problems
RE: IE4 Mac CSS Problems
RE: Copyright Info
Re: IE4 Mac CSS Problems
RE: preload Script
Re: IE4 Mac CSS Problems
Paralell sites
Re: Paralell sites
Re: Paralell sites

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:19:37 EST
From: NEOMASTINO@aol.com
Subject: RE: Here Goes another Site Check

I liked your site Jeremy. I thought it was very attractive and perfectly
suited to its content and purpose.

donna ayala
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:04:58 +0100
From: acke =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D6berg?= <acke@etc.se>
Subject: measure the screen?

Hi,
I'm wondering if any of you have stumbled over any shareware or
freeware program that helps you measure the screen in pixels easily.
What I would like to avoid is the process of making a screendump an open
it up in Photoshop just to measure it.
/acke

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anna-Karin Öberg
ETC Produktion AB, Bangårdsgången 11b, Box 4403, 102 68 Stockholm
Dir.telnummer: 08-720 82 47
ICQ 7146530
http://www.etc.se
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 07:08:19 PST
From: "Terry Fowler" <one_webdude@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The first unofficial Babble Archive

>Reply-To: kvz@juno.com (Keith D Van Zile)
>
>The first unofficial Babble Archive can be referenced at:
>
>http://geocities.datacellar.net/SiliconValley/Lab/8542
>
>Regards,
>
>Keith
>
This is great! Why isn't there an official archive?
Thanks, Keith. Now I can free up some room on my
Hotmail account.;^)
Terry Fowler

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 09:34:18 -0600
From: Erik Kittlaus <erik@unidial.com>
Subject: Re: trademark cost

David wrote:

> You must apply to the Office of Patents and
> Trademarks in Washington D.C., but it doesn't cost all that much.. don't quote
> me, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 or 15 bucks.

Unfortunately it's a bit more. It costs $245 to submit a trademark
application.

Erik
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:50:14 -0600
From: vince burkhead <vince@icon-stl.net>
Subject: Pre-Load script Needed

Babblers,

I have a "tour" on my site using the Refresh Meta tag in the HTML -- My
image files are generally 40K or less, so I set it to "25 seconds" per
page before refreshing to the next page. To gain more control over the
display of my images, I am searching for a script to "pre-load" my
images so there is a consistency to the mouse-free tour. Later I plan
to create a remote contol in javascript to give the user complete
control over the gallery, but for now I am looking for a "pre-load"
solution in HTML (if it exists).

Thanks in advance.

Vincent Burkhead

<bigger>http://www.mergesolutions.net

email: hello@mergesolutions.net

"don't start vast projects

with half-vast ideas."</bigger>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:50:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Patricia <prism@lightspeed.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: IE4 Mac CSS Problems

I've been reading the messages re IE4 and Mac. I work on a PowerMac and have
IE4 and Communicator 4. I've just recently begun experimenting with CSS so
my style sheets are still very simple, nothing fancy. I've tried both
internal and external style sheets and they all come up just as they should
in Communicator, but I open the exact same file in IE4 and I get nothing;
it's as if IE4 doesn't even recognized there are any style sheets at all!

Here's a little example of what I'm doing...

This is my .css document (called "first.css"):

<HTML>

<HEAD>

<!--

BODY {background: red; color: black}
.text {font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10px; line-height: 24px}
.big {font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 18px}
- -->

</HEAD>

This is my html document:

<HTML>

</HEAD>

<BODY>

</BODY>
</HTML>

Also, in Communicator, I'm getting uneven spacing between the lines of text
due to the 18px text I want to insert. Is there any way to get around this?

Any help much appreciated!

Patricia
prism@lightspeed.bc.ca
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:31:33 -0800
From: "Anita Rowland (S&T Onsite)" <a-anitar@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: IE4 Mac CSS Problems

The problem I see here is:

html markup in a linked stylesheet.

All you need in a linked stylesheet is the CSS parts; you don't even need
<STYLE> elements.
Your CSS worked correctly for me (IE 4.01 win95) when I saved only the CSS,
not the markup, in a linked stylesheet.

Anita Rowland mailto:anitar@halcyon.com
Home page -> http://www.halcyon.com/anitar/welcome.html
Anita's Book of Days -> http://www.halcyon.com/anitar/journal/
Seattle Cacophony Society -> http://www.halcyon.com/anitar/cacoph.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 14:56:32 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: RE: Copyright Info

At 02:15 AM 2/6/98 -0400, David Bamford wrote:
[snip]
>The letter
>thing will not give you a trademark. You must apply to the Office of Patents
>and Trademarks in Washington D.C., but it doesn't cost all that much.
[snip]

I just wanted to jump in here -- the bit about registering with the USPTO
is not true. You are not required to apply for a trademark in order to
claim ownership rights; first use of the object in the marketplace is
sufficient to claim ownership under common law.

Although this is true, you can receive a higher level of security by
registering with the Patent and Trademark Office. Registering also allows
you to secure trademark rights on an object that is not already in use, but
that you intend to use in the future.

Here's a decent resource I found for reading up on Copyright, Trademark and
Patent Law basics:
http://www.idresearch.com/

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/
- ---------------------------------------------------
Porter's Workshop - Home of Porter's Babble Demos
http://www.serve.com/apg/workshop/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 14:08:33 -0500
From: Andrew Zimmerman <zimmerma@hear.net>
Subject: Re: IE4 Mac CSS Problems

Patricia wrote:

> This is my .css document (called "first.css"):
>
> <HTML>
>
> <HEAD>
>
> <STYLE TYPE="text/css">
>
> 
>
> </HEAD>
>
> <BODY>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>

Change it to this (don't forget your </STYLE>!):

<!--

BODY {background: red; color: black}
DIV.text {font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10px; line-height: 24px}
.big {font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 18px}
- -->

>
>
> This is my html document:
>
> <HTML>
>
> <HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
> <LINK REL=stylesheet TYPE="text/css" HREF="first.css">
>
> </HEAD>
>
> <BODY>
>
> <p class="text">text here text here text here <span class="big">text
> here</span> text here text here text here text here text here text here text
> here text here text here text here text here text here text here text here
> text here <span class="big">text here</span> text here text here etc. </p>
>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>

then change your html to this:

I'm not sure if the span will work, but I am 99% sure the DIV will work.

The problem is IE doesn't like the <P> tag. While the code above should display
fine with CSS browsers, it will not degrade to non CSS browsers. I think you
could eliminate this problem by defining a class for <BR> of a negative value
and inserting it after the </DIV> but its probably too much effort.

If you want to see how I overcame the <P> limitation open here:
http://www.spy.net/~celsion/test/csstest.html

>
>
> Also, in Communicator, I'm getting uneven spacing between the lines of text
> due to the 18px text I want to insert. Is there any way to get around this?

Not that I know of. You could try to increase your line-spacing so that the
difference in text size won't be noticed. I'd also suggested using a percentage
for your line-height and not a pixel size, but YMMV.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:24:10 -0500
From: "Joseph Reger, Jr." <reger@reger.com>
Subject: RE: preload Script

Vincent,

We have a preload script that we use on our site to preload every
image file on the site all at once. I'm not exactly sure what you're
looking for though. Are you looking to only preload the next page in
the tour? Our script looks through our image directory and finds all
of the .jpg and .gif images. It then creates an .html page with all
of the images on it resized to 10x10 pixels. We've found that people
with slow connections really appreciate the option to explore our
site at high speed.

Feel free to check it out at http://www.webville-usa.com . The link
to the script is on the second page near the top. If it's what you
need I can post the perl code for it... it's very small and quick.

Let me know.

Joe Reger, Jr.
http://www.webville-usa.com

>
>Babblers,
>
>
>I have a "tour" on my site using the Refresh Meta tag in the HTML --
My
>image files are generally 40K or less, so I set it to "25 seconds"
per
>page before refreshing to the next page. To gain more control over
the
>display of my images, I am searching for a script to "pre-load" my
>images so there is a consistency to the mouse-free tour. Later I
plan
>to create a remote contol in javascript to give the user complete
>control over the gallery, but for now I am looking for a "pre-load"
>solution in HTML (if it exists).
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Vincent Burkhead

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:39:54 -0600
From: Jeremy Marx <jmarx@sparknet.net>
Subject: Re: IE4 Mac CSS Problems

At 12:50 PM 2/6/98 , Patricia wrote:

>
> I've been reading the messages re IE4 and Mac. I work on a PowerMac and
have
> IE4 and Communicator 4. I've just recently begun experimenting with CSS so
> my style sheets are still very simple, nothing fancy. I've tried both
> internal and external style sheets and they all come up just as they should
> in Communicator, but I open the exact same file in IE4 and I get nothing;
> it's as if IE4 doesn't even recognized there are any style sheets at all!

I don't know what's up with your IE4, but I can tell you eudora 4 recognized
your css! Your email displayed in a nice bright red on my screen!

Anyone know how to turn this feature of Eudora 4 off?

J e r e m y M a r x
Webmaster
SparkNET Interactive
<http://www.sparknet-interactive.com/>http://www.sparknet-interactive.com/
ICQ: <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5719871>http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5719871

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:41:27 +0000
From: Peter Newton <glowing@earthlink.net>
Subject: Paralell sites

Hey Babblers,
I am designing a fairly large site for a client who has two distinctly
different types of customers that might visit. One is corporate and may
expect a more reserved, clean site graphically. The second is a younger,
hipper crowd that is used to pretty wild graphics. I am thinking of
creating two paralell sites that share company logo, layout and some
text while using different backgrounds and images to create two distinct
moods. Am I setting myself up for a logistical nightmare as far as site
updates and keeping images and content straight? Has anyone seen any
examples of paralell sites out there? Thanks,

Peter Newton
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:59:56 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: Re: Paralell sites

Check out http://www.levi.com/ and http://www.levistrauss.com/

The first is the "Gen-X," in-your-face version; and the second is the "Good
evening sir. Could I interest you in a pair of our Chinos?" site.

- - Porter

At 01:41 PM 2/6/98 +0000, Peter Newton wrote:
>Hey Babblers,
> I am designing a fairly large site for a client who has two distinctly
>different types of customers that might visit. One is corporate and may
>expect a more reserved, clean site graphically. The second is a younger,
>hipper crowd that is used to pretty wild graphics. I am thinking of
>creating two paralell sites that share company logo, layout and some
>text while using different backgrounds and images to create two distinct
>moods. Am I setting myself up for a logistical nightmare as far as site
>updates and keeping images and content straight? Has anyone seen any
>examples of paralell sites out there? Thanks,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:26:45 -0600
From: jason kottke <jason@imationstudio.com>
Subject: Re: Paralell sites

peter,

one approach to this is to follow the lead of vivid studios:

http://www.vivid.com/

they have two links on their front page, the hip tour and the suit tour.
each link takes you to a different view of vivid. i know this is not
exactly what you're looking for, but it might lead you toward a possible
solution.

- -jason

http://web.0sil8.com
"i know nuthin' about nuthin'"

------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #187
****************************

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