Babble v1 93

babble-digest Monday, December 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 093

In this issue:
Re: a cool trick
Editor that colors tags
MY ROLLOVER DOESNT WORK
TECH: Re: MY ROLLOVER DOESNT WORK
Re: a cool trick
Re: DHTML, dreamweaver
TECH: Re: Single pixel gif trick and IE
RE: a cool trick
unintentional page reloads in NS
babble-digest V1 #92
RE: unintentional page reloads in NS
Re: Single pixel gif trick and IE
Re: How IE4 drives me nuts...
RE: How IE4 drives me nuts...
Postscript Verdana
Postscript Verdana
(none)
RE: Again- What size monitors
Re: DESIGN :Text

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:41:11 -0500
From: "Kushal Dutt" <kushal@nyct.net>
Subject: Re: a cool trick

CNET and Ziff Davis uses the same trick - except that they don't use
frames - just make it ,look like they do!
Kushal Dutt
http://www.nyct.net/~kushal/
Where the Internet is a way of life
- -----Original Message-----
From: Shelby <srogers@worldweb.net>
To: babble@verso.com <babble@verso.com>
Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 11:20 AM
Subject: a cool trick

Well, ok, maybe everyone here already knows about this trick, but I
thought
it was a good way to get around problems with frames.

A site I work on at <http://www.bluechippubs.com> (and Steve, I didn't
pick
the URL ;-) has a nav frame on the left.

Not that I really think the site needs a nav frame, but hey, I didn't
even
concept this site, I just inherited it. And when I did, it had been
FrontPaged, and a lot of the nav just didn't make sense (still doesn't,
but
I haven't got time for the pain, as Carly Simon once crooned). So I went
in
to try to make sense of it while deleting all the superfluous crap that
FrontPage stuck in. oi!

Oh yeah, the trick. While doing this, I found out that the nav frame is
actually a background. What the designer did was create a transparent,
basically spacer gif that was a wee bit smaller than the navigation
images.
She stuck those in as links, and they just sit there on top of this
background as links to all the appropriate pages.

It avoids the creation of an imagemap (which I avoid at all costs,
usually
-- they're unnecessary most of the time), fixes frame alignment
problems,
gets rid of those nasty, unwanted scroll bars that you sometimes
get....anyway, I thought it was a cool trick.

shelby rogers/web diva/dc webgrrl/person.html

Whatever you can do or dream you can do, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.
-Goethe
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:47:10 -0500
From: "Kapil Mathur" <kmathur@caribsurf.com>
Subject: Editor that colors tags

> And, yeah, it could be really helpful to have an editor
>which will colour the JavaScript, html tags and style sheets...

I use Microsoft's Developer Studio for Visual J++ which will color all the
older tags. I haven't tried it for style sheets.

Kapil Mathur

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:03:11 +0100
From: Filippo Spiezia <filippo@ideagrafica.it>
Subject: MY ROLLOVER DOESNT WORK

hi all babble friends

I m a graphic designer from Italy: web site http://www.ideagrafica.it
that’s my problem

if you can go now to http://ideagrafica.it/prova/ you can see a TEST
PAGE on
java script rollover that I have built to substitute the one that now is
on line,
to make more dinamically the frame....
but on 5 gifs, only the first works and the others no....why ?
all the five files are builded with the same specificts....

the problem is that the second file appear, but if I dont click and I
move out
the mouse this dont change more......

can somebody help me please ????
in the occasion, merry christmas and happy new year to all
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

filippo spiezia

**********
Ideagrafica di Filippo Spiezia, the Multimedia Designer
C.so Umberto 188/B • Gall. Europa • 65016 Montesilvano (PE) • Italy
URL http://www.ideagrafica.it • E-MAIL filippo@ideagrafica.it

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:00:45 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: TECH: Re: MY ROLLOVER DOESNT WORK

At 07:03 PM 12/22/97 +0100, Filippo Spiezia wrote:
[snip]
>if you can go now to http://ideagrafica.it/prova/ you can see a TEST
>PAGE on
>java script rollover that I have built to substitute the one that now is
[snip]
>the problem is that the second file appear, but if I dont click and I
>move out
>the mouse this dont change more......
[snip]

Filippo,

Change the 'nav1' parameters in your onMouseOut event handlers to 'nav2',
'nav3', etc. for each image. It looks like a cut-'n'-paste error to me.

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:03:11 -0500
From: Shelby <srogers@worldweb.net>
Subject: Re: a cool trick

At 12:41 PM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>CNET and Ziff Davis uses the same trick - except that they don't use
>frames - just make it ,look like they do!

Actually, that's not the trick I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that
the *background image* actually has the *navigation images* in it and
spacer gifs are on top of those images, and those spacer gifs become the
image links.

CNet and Ziff Davis just have 1-pixel high images with yellow/red/whatever
framing white space. Just color. No menu.

shelby rogers/web diva/dc webgrrl/person.html

Whatever you can do or dream you can do, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.
-Goethe
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:36:58 -0500
From: "Darrell Brogdon" <dbrogdon@clever.net>
Subject: Re: DHTML, dreamweaver

Try Homesite. I use it mainly because it colorizes the code.

Darrell

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrey Kovalenko <andrey@bwc.org>
To: david doull <doull@box.net.au>
Cc: babble@verso.com <babble@verso.com>
Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: DHTML, dreamweaver

>
>>So does anyone know of a product that helps in writing the code
>>e.g.: an editor that can check the syntax of your HTML,style sheets and
>>Javascript or at least an editor that will colour code the
>>JavaScript code?????
>
>Hi David,
>
>i would say any simple text editor is the best product to work with DHTML
code
>right now. It does not help in the writing the code :) , but it does help
in
>understanding of what you are doing with the code. And after you master
that,
>it is a good idea to come back to Dreamweaver and Coda, but still fix by
hand
>the code they create. And, yeah, it could be really helpful to have an
editor
>which will colour the JavaScript, html tags and style sheets... if anyone
knows
>of such (PC), please let me know.
>
>Have a good day, everyone.
>a.
>
>http://falkondesign.com
>
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>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:36:06 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: TECH: Re: Single pixel gif trick and IE

At 04:24 PM 12/22/97 +0100, David P. Leader wrote:
>Help! I'm almost ready to mount a web site for my ski club (OK, from small
>acorns...) and I check it out on a range of Netscape versions on Mac and PC
>- a bit dark on the PC, but more or less as expected. The I try IE3 and IE4
>(Mac) and horror of horrors, my first attempt at using invisible single
>pixels for leading has led to em-space sized gaps in the text. Can anyone
>tell me if this is a known problem with IE or is it just platform-specific
>(can't find a pc running IE) - or am I doing something wrong?
[snip]
>http://www.biochem.gla.ac.uk/GSC_Site/Index.html
[snip]

I don't think it's a problem with the browser... the way you've written
your code there is a space character being inserted before and after each
spacer image. If you're going to use spacer images to lead your text they
need to be on the same line as your lines or text. That is, you have this:

non-members alike; although when you
<img src="Pix/transpix.gif" HEIGHT=12 WIDTH=1>
discover what is on offer, we are sure you'll

When you should have this:

<img src="Pix/transpix.gif" HEIGHT=12 WIDTH=1>non-members . . .
<img src="Pix/transpix.gif" HEIGHT=12 WIDTH=1>discover what . . .

Hope this helps.
- - Porter

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:42:27 -0500
From: Lance Arthur <larthur@dbtinc.com>
Subject: RE: a cool trick

I believe our host, High Five, uses this method on their Navigation
frame.

Lance

http://glassdog.com

"Undulating plush, cuddly, machine
washable cannibalistic vegetables
driving equally plush vehicles on
a mission of destruction."

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shelby [mailto:srogers@worldweb.net]
>Sent: Monday, December 22, 1997 2:03 PM
>To: babble@verso.com
>Subject: Re: a cool trick
>
>
>At 12:41 PM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>CNET and Ziff Davis uses the same trick - except that they don't use
>>frames - just make it ,look like they do!
>
>
>Actually, that's not the trick I'm talking about. What I'm saying is
that
>the *background image* actually has the *navigation images* in it and
>spacer gifs are on top of those images, and those spacer gifs become
the
>image links.
>
>CNet and Ziff Davis just have 1-pixel high images with
yellow/red/whatever
>framing white space. Just color. No menu.
>
>
>
>shelby rogers/web diva/dc webgrrl/person.html
>
>Whatever you can do or dream you can do, begin it.
>Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.
> -Goethe
>..H5 Babble Design List Info: http://www.highfive.com/h5/babble.html
>..To unsubscribe, send the following one line to
majordomo@highfive.com:
>."unsubscribe (babble or babble-digest) (e-mail address)"
>
------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:44:57 PST
From: "First Name Last Name" <no_neck_joe@hotmail.com>
Subject: unintentional page reloads in NS

I have recently been getting complaint emails from visitors to my sites
saying that some pages would load and immediately after finishing, clear
and reload, all over again (not from cache). I have only seen this
happen in Netscape 3 and 4, and the pages have lots of tables in them,
but I can't figure out what the source of the problem is.

Thanks,
MH
no_neck_joe@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:02:15 -0500
From: Tom sustins <wize@compuserve.com>
Subject: babble-digest V1 #92

Please Stop Sending mail to this address! :o)

Thanx
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:24:00 -0800
From: "Steve Bang" <sbang@mediamatrix.com>
Subject: RE: unintentional page reloads in NS

> I have recently been getting complaint emails from visitors to my sites
> saying that some pages would load and immediately after finishing, clear
> and reload, all over again (not from cache). I have only seen this
> happen in Netscape 3 and 4, and the pages have lots of tables in them,
> but I can't figure out what the source of the problem is.

This is a known bug. According to Microsoft Technical Support, the problem
is in how some Netscape browsers interpret the following line in the header
of HTML documents:

If this line is present, the screen can refresh after loading in Netscape
browsers. I can't remember the technical details, but if you remove that
line, the problem will disappear. BUT, if you are using Microsoft FrontPage
for your Web design, it automatically inserts this line as you create new
pages. Even worse, if you remove that line, FrontPage will re-insert that
line. The best solution is to leave MS FrontPage behind and find another
HTML editor. Otherwise, you can delete that line by using any text editor,
but the minute you forget and open that page again with FrontPage and save
the page, you'll re-introduce the problem.

Hopefully, the above information saves you many hours that I wasted and
money spent calling Microsoft Technical Support. As you might guess,
Microsoft seems to have no interest in fixing this. But, I'm sure that
their Tech Support enjoys collecting money for a Netscape browser problem.
Apparently, the meta tag is correct, but Netscape's browsers interpret this
line incorrectly. So, it appears that Netscape is the culprit, but I'd be
very happy to be proven wrong.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:35:15 -0600
From: Darrel Austin <daustin@isd.net>
Subject: Re: Single pixel gif trick and IE

>It looks exactly the same on both Netscape and IE 4.0 on the PC. (But =
>what do you expect on the MAC anyway!?)

A expect a company so determined to take over the internet AT THE VERY
LEAST make a browser that renders the same on different platforms.

It's not the MAC...its Microsoft.

- -Darrel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:46:30 -0500
From: Lance Arthur <larthur@dbtinc.com>
Subject: Re: How IE4 drives me nuts...

I passed on those annoyances that were passed on to me via this list to
my MS contact who has passed them on to those who can do something about
them.

She added, for future reference:

" mswish@microsoft.com is a good address for feedback on any microsoft
product. (include version and platform info, mac users will have
different
issues than win32, etc.) The mail does indeed get passed to the product
groups. "

So when you have suggestions regarding how products should work or what
they should or shouldn't be doing, use that email address. It is *not*
for complaints about solving issues, it's about sending suggestions for
what would make a Microsoft product work better.

Lance

http://glassdog.com

"Undulating plush, cuddly, machine
washable cannibalistic vegetables
driving equally plush vehicles on
a mission of destruction."
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:00:26 -0500
From: Lance Arthur <larthur@dbtinc.com>
Subject: RE: How IE4 drives me nuts...

I passed on those annoyances that were passed on to me via this list to
my MS contact who has passed them on to those who can do something about
them.

She added, for future reference:

Lance

http://glassdog.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:08:37 -0600
From: Pat Flanagan <pfpd@pfpd.com>
Subject: Postscript Verdana

OK, all you font fans out there, anyone know of a Postscript (ATM) version
of the Verdana truetype font included with Win95? Or a close equivalent?
I'm considering using Verdana in a new iteration of my logo, but want a
Postscript version I can give to a printer for any printed materials. Thanks.
____________________
Pat Flanagan Publishing & Design
PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281
<mailto:pfpd@pfpd.com> -- <http://www.pfpd.com>
competitive business advantages through creative technology
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 14:54:52 -0700
From: Richard <richard@labsysgrp.com>
Subject: (none)

Morning all,

I know it's been discussed before, but can someone point me in the direction
of a url with statistics on what the most popular browser is, the most
popular screen resolution... that sort of information?

Thanks for the help,
Richard

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:58:48 +0200
From: Steven Crane <stevec@datapro.co.za>
Subject: RE: Again- What size monitors

Here in South Africa, most ordinary users still seem to use 640x480 on
14" monitors. Others like developers and designers either have 17" or
bigger monitors running at 1024x780 or higher or 14" monitors running at
800x600.

For some reason there seems to be a general dislike of 800x600 on 14"
monitors among female users (ordinary ones, not designers or developers)
and I often hear the ladies in our office asking how I can work on my
monitor (14" 800x600) all day.

Steve Crane (MCSD, SBN2 Member)
E-mail .......... mailto:stevec@datapro.co.za
Web (Company) ... http://www.datapro.co.za
(Personal) .. http://home.pix.za/pa/pak00325
ICQ Pager ....... http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4364105

> -----Original Message-----
> From: andrey@bwc.org [SMTP:andrey@bwc.org]
> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 1997 8:19 PM
> To: hennerich@superonline.com
> Cc: babble
> Subject: Re: Again- What size monitors
>
>
> >>from a recent study of European surfers :
> >>1280x1024 - 16%
> >>1152x900 - 6%
> >>1024x768 - 35%
> >>800x600 - 28%
> >>640x480 - 15%
> >All rescpect for the mentioned magazine, they usually provide their =
> >readers (myself included) with very accurate and good stories, but
> hey - =
>
> >But where are the replies from all the other babblers
> >or is the subject not serious enough
>
> The subject is serious enough, and i too have a feeling that the
> majority of
> surfers are using their monitors set up at 800x600... And we have a
> way to
> check it. There are many people on the list from all around the
> world, if some
> of you will volunteer to ask few randomly chosen people you know (non
> web
> designers, non designers :) what screen size they are using and send
> me emails
> with info, i'll be glad to put the results together, and create small
> report
> for everyone's benefit.
>
> Just an idea...
>
> a.
>
> http://falkondesign.com
>
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> majordomo@highfive.com:
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:50:17 +1000
From: esoweb <esoweb@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: DESIGN :Text

=> Incidentally - is there a very good, thorough CSS tutorial for
Netscape??

The best resource I have found is Netscape's own Dynamic HTML in
Communciator Guide (includes CSS specs and demonstrations):
http://developer.netscape.com/library/documentation/communicator/dynhtml/

For those who have trouble with Netscape's site, the following url is
the jumping off point for all of their dcumentation:
http://developer.netscape.com/library/documentation/

It contains everything you ever wanted to know - the Java Script guides
are particulary useful.

- --
| Toby Hede
| Designer/Programmer

| esoweb
| => web design & development

| http://www2.one.net.au/~esoweb/

- --------------------------------------
It is better to be inspired than wired
- --------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #93
***************************

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