QUESTIONS ASKED AND ANSWERED

NO FRAME AT ALL=(
Monday, 24-Apr-2000 13:50:47
My QH mare is a nice mover and jumper, but whenever I try to get her to engage her hind end and tuck herself into the tiny, low frame favored in the hunters, she puts her head up and trots slowly. She is all over the place and strung-out. How can I get her more engaged, round and supple?
Hunter

Re: NO FRAME AT ALL=(
Tuesday, 25-Apr-2000 21:46:53
Hi Hunter,
Firstly, you don’t want to ride your horse in a ‘tiny, low frame.’ That is not what is favored in the hunter divisions. A quality hunter will move in a long, low frame, covering the ground easily, with as little effort and as few steps as possible. When engaged, round and supple, the good mover will get there before the other horses, with no need to increase its pace. He or she will simply cover more ground with its smooth, easy, long stride.
Please peruse the training links in the body of this home page, here at www.horsejudge.com/ to learn more about ‘head carriage,’ which I address on the first of the training links. Leg into hand, meaning a squeezing leg into a quietly resisting hand, works well to teach a horse to relax in its head and neck and accept the bit. Be sure to relax both hand and leg pressure upon submission, however slight, from your mount. Follow your horses head with your hands and arms, raising your hands when her head goes up and lowering them when she drops her head. Keep a straight line from your elbow to the bit in your equine's mouth, keeping your fingers closed softly around the reins, but snug enough to prevent the leather from slipping through your fingers. If your mare is resistant, you may need to wear a small spur or stick to educate her to the leg. Just like the resistance in the hands must stop to reward any cooperation from your mare, so must the use of the spur or bat end when she responds by moving forward into the hands.
Sandy

Re: Re: NO FRAME AT ALL=(
Wednesday, 26-Apr-2000 20:25:04
Thanks Sandy. When I said, 'tiny, low frame' I meant a very small frame, with only a slight amount of flexion. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thanks for the help =)
Hunter

Re: Re: Re: NO FRAME AT ALL=(
Wednesday, 26-Apr-2000 21:31:13
Oh, thanks for the clarification. :-) Good luck Hunter!
Sandy

ENGAGING THE HIND END
Thursday, 06-Apr-2000 20:52:07
Hey Sandy,
It's me again! Having a little trouble with my filly again...She's been coming along so nicely, she goes in a lovely frame and sets her head beautifully. We started her jumping a few weeks ago and she is already doing cross rail lines(although it did take her a few akward plops before she figured out where all 4 legs go.) Anyway, I was wondering if you could help me with something. A lot of the time she is great, but sometimes by the end of a lesson or after she ran a lot in the paddock before I ride, she's reeeally lazy. She hardly engaged her hind end at all when going. Then, she'll tuck her head really low and tightly so she's below the bit. One thing leads to another and she gets very heavy on her forehand. Now, obviously this is an indication that she is tired and this is her way of avoiding having to use her hind end. Usually I stop my work out at this point (about 40 minutes) but is there anything you can think of which would encourage her to work her hind end more. People have told me she has very straight legs behind and it may prevent her from fully engaging the hind end to get in a nice, powerful frame..Ok,let's see if you can figure out what I'm asking...lol..
Thanks!
Molly

Re: ENGAGING THE HIND END...
Friday, 07-Apr-2000 11:22:26
Hello Molly,
When you describe her as ‘going in a lovely frame,’ does this include engagement of the hind quarters? I would presume so, since that is crucial to traveling on the bit and in a frame. If her straight legs were the only reason for lacking engagement behind, I would imagine you would always have this problem, not just when she’s tired.
You might want to try riding her with a spur, if you are capable of using it only as needed. I don’t suggest wearing spurs until a rider can maintain a quiet leg, however, once that level of riding has been reached, I find them quite useful. Using the stick, behind your leg to encourage her to engage behind, is helpful, as well, but the spur is subtler.
See if you can schedule your schooling to accomplish what you plan, but finish before she is so tired or bored as to fall apart. Finishing on a good note will be more productive than waiting until she is fatigued, as you can then pat and reward her ‘good’ behavior by ending the session.
Sandy

A FEW QUESTIONS
Sunday, 19-Mar-2000 15:54:21
Hey Sandy! As you know there is a show coming up, at the beginning of this week when my trainer was doing entries she told me that TJ had to go to 4 one day shows.. lol Well Saterday she talked to my mom to see if I could show (wow lol lol she must have been in a good mood) so anyway I get to show TJ now wahoo.
I believe she is doing him in the baby greens, and I am doing medium stirrups (like short stirrups but for older then 12, and its a whole 2'6). Would you think trotting is permitted since that is the only division that beginners that aren't 12 or younger can do? (it isn't all eq) I have to show in that since TJ is limited to 2'6 this year because of the baby greens. And at this show she still wants him to trot in and canter out.
Also since its only little stuff do you think it would be alright to wear a gray jacket in the eq? my eq is all on sunday, so I could wear my other jacket.
Thanks a huge whole bunch
Jess

Re: A FEW QUESTIONS
Sunday, 19-Mar-2000 17:09:07
Hi Jess,
Often, trotting is permitted in baby green hunter and beginner equitation classes. Check the wording in the prize list, which should specify that trotting is allowed if that is so. Whether trotting is penalized or not, if your trainer thinks it best to trot him to the fences, then that is what you would be wise to do. Remember, giving a young horse, such as TJ, a pleasant experience is more important than winning ribbons. Therefore, you must not be tempted to overface him, simply because you are at a show. Think of each horse show as one small step in TJ’s overall education. Rather than seeking ‘perfection,’ try aiming for ‘improvement’ in both his performance and attitude. Eventually, each small step will add up to a well trained, successful show horse. The ‘slow’ way is the ‘faster’ way. Any temptation to hurry his or your training or concern yourself with prizes can only create problems and steps ‘backward’. Either color jacket should be just fine, Jess. They’re both quite acceptable in equitation and the hunter divisions. Best of luck to you. Do remember to let us know how it goes.
Sandy

Re: Re: A FEW QUESTIONS/GREEN HORSES
Sunday, 19-Mar-2000 17:45:31
Hey Sandy. Thank you, I know I have to trot in everything except if its a single.. I was just wondering since it doesn't say if trotting is permitted for the classes I am doing. lol If I canterd something I wasn't supposed to my trainer would chew me up and spit me out.. Another possibility is just borrow a horse for the o/f stuff, but the whole point of me doing 2'6 this year is to show TJ.. lol
Thanks a bunch
Jess

Re: Re: Re: A FEW QUESTIONS/GREEN HORSES
Sunday, 19-Mar-2000 19:44:23
'Just think of it as 'schooling' for TJ. You and he will both benefit and learn and the prizes can come next year.
Sandy

BUCKING
Sunday, 07-May-2000 21:01:12
My horse is a lovely hunter prospect, but one obstacle looms in our way:
Whenever I ask her to pick up the canter, she bucks and picks up the wrong lead. I know she's not sore. How should I get her to pick up her lead without bucking? I really need to get her to do this, and my trainer cannot come out for a week :( Please give me some ideas.
Erin

Re: BUCKING
Tuesday, 09-May-2000 01:03:11
Hi Erin,
Some thoroughbreds are super sensitive and will over react to the leg. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much leg are you using when asking for the canter depart? If you are using a 3 degree leg, try one degree of pressure. On a very reactive mare, sit erect, using no body language and "think" canter. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Sandy

PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Sunday, 16-Apr-2000 10:38:11
Hey Sandy! How are you? well after the gray horse didn't vet we moved trainers (other reasons not the gray horse lol) and TJ has been doing awesome, but me and him have been fighting ALOT lately, personalty confrentation lol.. Anyway we have a childrens hunter on trial, he hasn't showed in 3yrs and he tosses his head in the corner if he jumped the jump really well.
In the childrens hunters if a horse moves and jumps the best do you pin it lower if it shakes its head in the corner.
He is an older horse so we are happy he is this enthusiastic about it but I don't want it to cut me from the ribbons because he gets proud of himself.
Jess

Re: PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Sunday, 16-Apr-2000 15:00:52
Hi Jess,
Ask the vet to look into physical causes for this horse's head tossing after a jump. We horse fanciers like to give our mounts much more credit for intelligence than is really warranted. I doubt this animal is capable of evaluating the quality of his last jumping effort. It is much more likely he is tossing his head from pain triggered by jumping. Judges will make note of this behavior on their card and it will very likely cost him in their final evaluation of his round. You are wise to inquire about this before purchasing a new mount. Good luck, Jess.
Sandy

Re: Re: PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Sunday, 16-Apr-2000 15:09:55
when he tosses his head its in the corner not directly after the jump, its more of a I wanna buck and play then a pain I would think. We were standing still and the leaves from a tree were falling and it looked like it was snowing but he was doing the same head shaking at the leafs.. its not bobbing, just a little shake with his head. (he did it when he took off bucking with me the first day I rode him lol spunky spunky)(he plays and chews alot lol)
Does that still sound like pain?
Thank you
Jess

Re: PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Sunday, 23-Apr-2000 08:23:03
helloo,i think you should try using a martingale.my pony tosses his head to but not only at the corners.he tosses his head all the time practicly and i recently put a martingale on him and he diesn't through his head anymore.
lauren

Re: Re: PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Wednesday, 26-Apr-2000 19:22:10
Hi Lauren,
A properly adjusted standing martingale cannot prevent a horse from tossing its head. If yours is that restrictive, it may prove dangerous to use. The horse needs to have some freedom of movement in its head and neck. It is necessary for balance, and essential when jumping.
You can check the fit of your martingale by resting your hand about halfway down the martingale strap and then pressing the leather against your horse's neck. If you can't do that rather easily, it is too tight.
Sandy

Re: Re: Re: PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Sunday, 16-Apr-2000 17:23:38
Hi Jess,
It still sounds suspicious to me. It doesn't have to be an unsoundness, though. He may be reacting to an uncomfortable bit or an ill fitting saddle. You'll just have to play detective till you find the cause and, hopefully, a solution.
Sandy

Re: Re: Re: Re: PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Tuesday, 18-Apr-2000 20:20:10
Hey Sandy! Just thought I should let you know the head shaking has stopped completely. We jumped 3' - 3'3 course today (looked so scary since I haven't jumped that big in a few months, and it was airy) and he jumped everything swapped before the corner didn't shake his head and was perfect. I remeberd though When I rode him on friday he had, had his teeth done earlier that day so he might have been sensative.
Thank you for your help, you have such a helpful board. Keep up the wonderful work.
Jess

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PLAYFULNESS IN THE CORNER
Tuesday, 18-Apr-2000 21:18:48
That's great news, Jess! Take advantage of the trial you have with this horse and be sure this doesn't re-occur and best of luck.
Sandy

YOUNG HORSE PULLING (Leah)
(10-Aug-1999 10:36:42)
How do you teach a young horse not to pull. The horse is very talanted, but resists in his mouth.

Re: YOUNG HORSE PULLING
Wednesday, 11-Aug-1999 00:20:50
Hi Leah and welcome to our Q & A Board. 'Nice to have you visit. As I am certain you already know, a baby takes a great deal of time and mounds of patience. For every forward step they take, it seems they will take two steps backward, or so it often seems. From your description, this one's worth the effort. It sounds as though your colt has developed a resistance to your rating him before a jump, as well as when you try to regulate his pace upon landing. A horse pulling during the downward transition is not uncommon. Typically, in an effort to resist the rider's hands, the horse disengages its hocks so that the hind legs can be used to brace against the rider's hands. Then, the horse is able to flatten its back and raise its neck, thrusting its forehand weight onto the rider's hands, allowing the horse to pull much harder than if it were pulling with the weight of its head alone.
To correct this problem, you need to keep him from disengaging behind. By keeping your legs against the horse's side throughout the downward effort, you will make it difficult for him to disengage his hocks. Simultaneously, you need to perform numerous half-halts, which will prevent the horse from finding a fixed hand against which to pull.
Be sure that you lighten your hands on the reins as the horse decreases its pulling, so that the animal will get a reward for the correct response. You should still keep your hands closed into fists, with your thumbs closed down on top of the reins to keep them from slipping through your fingers, but your arms should be reactive, moving up and down as well as forward and back with the motion of the horse's head, rather than staying fixed. This is so important in teaching the horse proper head carriage. Rather than dropping the hand in hopes of a more desirable head set, the rider who stays fluid, with arms and hands continuing to maintain a straight line from elbow to bit, will come out on top, in time. Because there is no 'reward' or 'escape' in raising his head, the horse ridden with the 'following,' 'educated' hand, supported by leg, will acquiesce, finding the lightening of the aids, immediately upon his submission to be the reward he was seeking, after all. Good luck and keep us posted, Leah.
Sandy

RUSHES FENCES
Monday, 27-Mar-2000 15:08:18
Sandy,
I purchased an ex-racehorse a little over a year ago and will be showing him this year in hunter seat (first show in two weeks). I have a lot of experience showing in hunter shows, however, it has been quite a few years. My horse, Bacardi, has showed tremendous progress and has proven to be a smart and willing horse. As should be expected, Bacardi has a problem with speed. I have learned to slow my movements down, at which time, Bacardi responds by slowing down his movements (i.e. riding slightly behind the motion). This approach has worked wonders at the trot. It has gotten to the point that I can ride Bacardi at a trot without any contact on his mouth whatsoever and he will slow down if I slow my body down. I am still working at the canter and Bacardi has been showing improvements over the last few weeks. I have noticed that just the slighest change (such as rolling my shoulders back so that they are straight as well as maintaining a deep seat) will slow him down.
My problem is, Bacardi rushes his jumps. He maintains a steady decent pace at the canter until about 2 or 3 strides from the jump, at which time he takes the bit in his mouth, throws his head up slightly and charges over the jump. In most cases it only takes about 2 or 3 strides after the jump to bring him back under control. I started using a cloverleaf pattern setting up four cavaletti’s in a way that they resemble a plus sign. As we land over the first cavaletti, I use my legs to turn him in a tight circle to approach the second cavaletti, and so on. This keeps him from rushing as he knows we will be moving in a tight circle upon landing from a jump. He has improved with this pattern, as at first, he would still charge the jump and then charge out of it. However, now that he realizes what we are doing, it has slowed him down. Unforunately, the jumps at shows are not set in this type of pattern. If so, we’d be fine. After having a successful workout with this pattern, I have tried jumping a course of jumps set at regulation height. Bacardi reverts back to his old ways and charges them. He trots over fences beautifully. When we trot a course he does not take the bit and does not rush before or after the jump. It’s only a problem when I try to canter a course. I’m not sure if you have ever had experience with training ex-racehorses or other horses, for that matter, who like to charge the jumps. I know he has the capability to jump a nice, smooth, clean round as he has done so on several occaisions in the past, at which time I provided him with lots of praise. Unfortunately, this does not happen often enough. I do have someone working with me and Bacardi on this problem. However, since an out of control horse is a dangerous horse, I’m trying to seek advice from as many people as possible in order to get some control back over the jumps. The weather lately has prevented us from getting a lot of schooling over fences done. This may be contributing to the problem in that I am unable to work him over jumps as much I would like to (or as much as I think he needs). I have read numerous books on retraining racehorses with no avail. I have tried several different bits (I am using a Fulmer on him now which has shown the best results and he seems to like it the best of any). I would also like to mention that Bacardi seems to really enjoy jumping both in the ring and out on the trails. He just seems to think he is a steeplechaser and not a Hunter Jumper. Finally, I would like to add that when he does jump under my control, he listens to me quite well (i.e. jumping the moment I ask and not trying to fit an extra step in or jump from too far out). This shows me that he does trust me and my judgement.
Would you be able to provide me any suggestions/help/exercises on getting him to work with me over jumps and not run away with me over them? Sorry for the long explanation but I wanted to provide you with as much detail as possible so that you may be able to provide me with the best possible suggestion. Thank you for your time.
Sharnette

Re: RUSHES FENCES
Monday, 27-Mar-2000 20:44:09
Hi Sharnette,
Yours is not an uncommon problem. The first suggestion I will offer is to remove the pressure of that "First Show" in two weeks. I've never met a green horse who can comprehend what that means to us or who will react in any other than a negative way to 'deadlines.'
The single most important lesson you can teach your horse or yourself, for that matter, is never to settle for the incorrect pace. A little too fast or a bit too slow is simply wrong and you are either traveling at the correct pace or you are not. You can't be a little wrong about your pace. Everything you attempt to accomplish on your mount depends on it. Set your pace goals and acquire a "mental speedometer" to sound the alarm when you begin to exceed the speed limit or travel in an underanimated, dead pace.
WALK at 4 MPH, Sit trot at 6 MPH, Rising trot at 8 MPH, Canter at 10 to 12 MPH and the Hand Gallop should be approximately 14 MPH.
Use the half halt to regulate his balance and pace, always conscious of the speed you are traveling at.
Start with the trot fence, praising his normally good behavior to trot jumps. Do the first fence on a line at the trot, sinking into the saddle and stopping on a straight line, before reaching the 2nd fence on the line. Alternate stopping on a line, with circling before the 2nd fence. Once he has settled and is not anticipating jumping fence # 2, go ahead and allow him to jump that fence. Repeat the transition to a straight halt, as you did after fence # 1. Now, go ahead and mix up turning and circling, halting on a line and then circling after fence # 2, using the circles, which may be done to the left and then to the right another time, to mentally calibrate a proper 10 to 12 mile per hour canter.
Once he has grasped these exercises, and this will take many sessions, go ahead and try 2 lines, doing the alternating circling, stopping, etc. that you did earlier. When, without rushing or putting time limits on yourself or your mount you feel you are ready to jump a course in control of his pace, go ahead and turn on that "mental speedometer" and calibrate the canter pace in your opening circle to be precisely, 10 to 12 miles per hour. Ride the first line of fences on course and then return to that ideal canter pace, increasing your seat contact a bit for the end of the ring. Now you are ready to ride the next line of jumps. Focus on the next jump. Soften your seat to a slightly forward one, relax your contact with his mouth a little and ride the line, maintaining the nice, even pace you began with (or stopping if he fights you). With your second line completed, once again, tune in to your "mental speedometer" and establish an ideal canter of 10 to 12 miles per hour. Continue to repeat these steps throughout the entire course. Put a punctuation mark on your efforts with a smooth closing circle that brings you back down from the canter to the trot and then walk. At any time that you feel even a slight loss of control, go back to your circling and stopping exercises, calmly and confidently informing your horse that any excess of the ‘speed limit’ will not be tolerated.
I hope the above exercises will help. Do let us know and good luck with him. Sandy

Re: Re: RUSHES FENCES
Wednesday, 29-Mar-2000 13:16:42
Thanks Sandy. As soon as the weather permits, I will try your exercises and let you know how he is coming along.
Sharnette

OPENING MOUTH: Sarah)
(11-Aug-1999 11:54:25)
Hi Sandy, nice page :) I have a problem. My horse who is on EPM meds, can only be flat ridden. Well, I've been doing lots of halts, leg yeilds, and transitions with him, mainly trot-halt, halt-walk, trot-walk, ect. I am trying to make him not open his mouth and pull while i'm doing downward transitions. I put a flash noseband attachment on, but i'm afraid he'll get dependant on it, and when I take it off he'll be back to the same thing. He is usually a hunter, but after the EPM is cured, I think he might make a good jumper, but I don't know. Flash nosebands aren't allowed for hunters, so i'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance!
Sarah

RE: OPENING MOUTH
Wednesday, 11-Aug-1999 14:54:12
Hi Sarah,
The horse, unfortunately, does not speak the English language. In order to successfully ride one, we must find an alternate means of communication. I have found the 'reward vs. punishment' system to effectively convey our wishes to the horse. In employing an aid, such as leg, we are inflicting minor discomfort to our mount. When the animal moves forward from this aid, the 'punishment' of the leg ceases, granting 'reward.' As Bertalan de Nemethy, former coach of the U.S. Show Jumping Team, used to say, "Put two-thirds of the horse's body in front of your legs." What he meant was that the rider's legs should be employed to create impulsion in the horse's hind end, so that the hocks become engaged and the part of the horse's back just behind the saddle rises slightly, making the rider feel that the horse is in front of his legs, instead of behind them.
A horse pulling during the downward transition is not uncommon. Typically, in an effort to resist the rider's hands, the horse disengages its hocks so that the hind legs can be used to brace against the rider's hands. Then, the horse is able to flatten its back, thrusting its forehand weight onto the rider's hands, often becoming even heavier by opening it’s mouth. To correct this problem, you need to keep him from disengaging behind. By keeping your legs active against the horse's side throughout the downward effort, you will make it difficult for him to disengage his hocks. Meanwhile, you need to perform frequent half-halts, which will prevent the horse from finding a fixed hand against which to pull.
Schooling your mount with the help of a figure eight or flash noseband will help you to 'speak' to him, enabling you to communicate through 'reward' and 'punishment.' Once he has accepted your training, you can continue to utilize this aid as necessary, removing it just prior to entering the show ring.
Be sure that you lighten your hands on the reins as the horse decreases its pulling, so that the animal will get a 'reward' for the correct response. You must continue to keep your hands closed into fists, with your thumbs closed down on top of the reins to keep them from slipping through your fingers, while your arms remain responsive, moving up and down as well as forward and back with the motion of the horse's head, rather than staying fixed. This is most important in correcting the horse from opening its mouth and pulling. Rather than dropping the hand in hopes of a more desirable head set, the rider who stays fluid, with arms and hands continuing to maintain a straight line from elbow to bit, will eventually succeed. Because there is no 'reward' or 'escape' in raising his head, the horse ridden with the 'following' hand, supported by leg, learns to try a different tactic and stops pulling for a short time. When granted the lightening of the aids, immediately upon his submission, to be the reward he was seeking, you have successfully taught him not to lean and open his mouth, through a system of 'reward and punishment.' Good luck, Sarah. Be patient. It will happen.
Sandy

Re: DOWNWARD TRANSITIONS
Friday, 06-Aug-1999 23:19:
A proper downward transition, performed in the higher levels of equitation, begins in the hindquarters. The horse should be asked to go forward into the bit, while the rider resists with the hands. The hands should be used much as you'd squeeze water from a sponge, rather than pulled upon. The leg asks the horse to go forward into the bit by gently squeezing with both legs until the rider can feel the horse accept the bit, keeping his body, head and neck round. A proper transition from the trot to the walk should, ideally, maintain an active hind end and never allow the horse to shift his weight forward and lean, heavily on the bit or collapse in a heap as if in a 'time out.' Although, walking on a loose rein is fine, while at rest, the downward transitions, must not be misinterpreted as 'break time' until the rider signals his horse that he may take a break and relax.
Sandy

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