Babble v1 118

babble-digest Friday, January 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 118

In this issue:
How 2 Turn Off Sound
Re: TECH: Saving selections in PS?
Re: new article - single pixel trick
Re: TECH: Saving selections in PS?
Delivery Report
Delivery Report
Delivery Report
Re: TECH: Saving selections in PS?
Re: A city web site - could you give me an example?
Re: Cookies
Web Design "Manifestos"
Re: vector graphics
testing!
Photoshop image cut-up
Re: Photoshop image cut-up

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:23:41 -0800
From: Chuck West <webtamers@webtamers.com>
Subject: How 2 Turn Off Sound

I'm using the following to embed sound in a webpage:

I would like to use a very small image map (or two images)
to turn the sound on & off, could someone please tell me how?

Thanks in advance,

Chuck West
WebTamers
http://webtamers.com/
Phone 209-388-1348
Fax 209-726-1352
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:38:25 -0500
From: mike randall <mrandall@imcinternet.net>
Subject: Re: TECH: Saving selections in PS?

> The best solution we've found so far is to create "crop
> mask" layers which remain hidden until we are ready to
> output. We then unhide them, use them to simplify the
> work of selecting the pieces to save to various output
> files (show layer/flatten/wand/invert/crop/mode change/save).

what i do is use the guides, representing the makeup of the html table
cells. then i select within the guides (with that stick to guides)
feature on, hit control-shift-c, control-n, control-v, mode change,
save. this is the easiest way i've found to do it and it doesn't take a
lot of time to the point were i need to simplify.

yeah.

- --
michael randall
webmaster, interactive marketing corporation
ph. 203 288 5690 (ext. 106) tf. 800 840 9989
mrandall@imcinternet.net
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:07:43 +0000
From: "colin" <c.z.robertson@mail.ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new article - single pixel trick

On 7 Jan 98 at 1:00, babble-digest wrote:

> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:13:41 -0500
> From: Tari Akpodiete <tari@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: new article - single pixel trick
>
> We had a very animated round of talk awhile back about the in/famous
> single pixel trick. There is now an interesting 'how-to' article on
> WebReview, direct URL:
>
> http://www.webreview.com/98/01/02/feature/index.html

Very interesting. But it is not so simple as it seems. Take a look at
this page in IE3:

http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~s.robertson/tc/tc2/index.html

Notice how all the lines are one pixel wide? Look at the source,
they should be two pixels wide. Everything looks fine in Netscape.
The image is a single pixel gif (89a non-interlaced) created in
Paint Shop Pro. When I open the image in PSP it's black (!). I fixed
all this by making the image 2x2 pixels, only I haven't uploaded
the fixed version yet.

Small, 2-color gifs often have problems like these. There must be
some ambiguity in the compression/decompression algorithms. If anyone
knows more than I do please tell me.

colin
__________________________________________________________________
c.z.robertson@ndirect.co.uk
rational http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~s.robertson/
arthur kitching http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~s.robertson/kitching/
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:10:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Newell <matt@ns.qnis.net>
Subject: Re: TECH: Saving selections in PS?

im thinking about guides. snap to guides in particular for ps 4.

i feel like im missing something from your ? though.

-- jEsTeR

www.sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
jester@sweetillusions.org
== ================================= === ==
whatever is not nailed down is mine;
what i can pry loose, is not nailed down

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Richard Tallent wrote:

> As many of us do, we work a great deal with images
> created in Photoshop and then diced up to produce
> GIFs to be pieced together on a web site.
>
> Unfortunately, every change to an image requires the
> back-breaking process of re-cutting up the images.
>
> Is there an automated, simple way to do this in PS
> 3.x? or 4.x? Maybe we've been looking over something
> obvious.
>
> The best solution we've found so far is to create "crop
> mask" layers which remain hidden until we are ready to
> output. We then unhide them, use them to simplify the
> work of selecting the pieces to save to various output
> files (show layer/flatten/wand/invert/crop/mode change/save).
>
> Maybe a plugin? Anyone up to writing one? It should save
> the grid and the output filenames.
>
> --
> Richard "If only PSP would add layers and a good text tool" Tallent
> Internet Cyber-Creations, Inc.
> http://www.icnewmedia.com/
>
>
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:11:10 -0500
From: Gateway@CSERVE4.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
Subject: Delivery Report

Non-Delivery Report: To: Administrator at CSERVE
Subject: babble-digest V1 #117
Report Generation Time: 01/07/98 19:11:09 (GMT+00:00)
Transfer Failed: Recipient Name Unrecognized

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:11:10 -0500
From: Gateway@CSERVE4.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
Subject: Delivery Report

Non-Delivery Report: To: Administrator at CSERVE
Subject: babble-digest V1 #117
Report Generation Time: 01/07/98 19:11:09 (GMT+00:00)
Transfer Failed: Recipient Name Unrecognized

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:22:27 -0500
From: leslie harpold <leslie@fearless.net>
Subject: Re: TECH: Saving selections in PS?

At 11:04 AM 1/7/98 -0600, Richard Tallent wrote:

>Is there an automated, simple way to do this in PS
>3.x? or 4.x? Maybe we've been looking over something
>obvious.

well, there's a utility for the Mac called Gif Slicer available somewhere
on the internet free, but don't ask me where.

http://www.ziplink.net/~shoestring/dicer01.htm

is where you can get a beta version of a utility that does this for the pc,
saves the grid *and* generates an html file. swanky, right? future
versions will support numerous file types (rumor has it the beta already
supports gifs jpg, bmps etc.) . i love it i use it all the time and i
can't say enough nice things about it.

now - as for text tools, heh, i'm waist high in that right this minute.
using extensis phototools gives you a greatly enhanced control set over
your type (it's avaialble for both platforms) but all i'd like to do is
curves and justification.

for justification, i just set the type in illustrator and export it as a
tiff, same with curves, it works great, although occasionally rigid color
control is hard, but using a setting of fuzzy=200 and using p-shops replace
color function is almost always a good fix.

hope this is somewhat helpful.

leslie

leslie harpold
http://smug.com http://www.hoopla.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"the answer is there, but 'there' is not a
fixed position" - Fugazi
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 14:44:05 -0500
From: Wendy Clark <clark@portland.com>
Subject: Re: A city web site - could you give me an example?

>Before starting the design process, I'd like to see some well-made
>sites of the same kind. If you know a good site or have designed one,
>I'd like to see how it looks - structure, design, facilities.
>Of course, I've visited some sites myself, but they were rather

Take a look at Destination: Maine <http://www.destinationmaine.com>

It's quite extensive.

___________________________
Wendy Clark
New Media Development Group
http://www.nmdg.com
clark@portland.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:10:30 -0800
From: James DeRose <jderose@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Cookies

Wendy,

For a quick start, there is a fairly good compilation of information
available at the EarthLink Web site. A good spread of questions are
answered, and there are a dozen or so other links to information about
cookies from other sites. I believe this page should get you headed in the
right direction:

<http://www.earthlink.net/cookies/>

Also, there were some interesting numbers that were returned during the 8th
GVU WWW User Survey about cookies (complete with spiffy graphs and all).
This is the sort of information that you can actually use when developing a
policy for new sites on where and why to use cookies. Check it out at:

<http://www.gvu.gatech.edu/user_surveys/survey-1997-10/graphs/use/Cookie_Policy.
html>

Good Luck,
James

jderose@earthlink.net

At 11:30 AM -0500 1/7/98, Wendy Clark wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was recently given the task of collecting information on cookies and
>I'm looking for any contributions. This also might prove to be an
>interesting thread. For those who don't know what a cookie is, NetLingo
>defines it as:
>
>"A special piece of information about you, something you clicked on,
>and/or your computer system which is stored in a text file on your hard
>drive. This information is usually accessed by a server when you connect
>to a Web site which wants to know some information about you or your
>system."
>(for the complete definition, see
><http://www.netlingo.com/c.html#cookie>)
>
>Now, I can get definitions and zillions of search engine results myself,
>but I'm hoping to spark some interest here and get feedback from a
>designer/producer standpoint. Specifically,
>
>- Where are good places for specifics about cookies? (how they work, how
>to implement them, etc.) I've already visited Netscape's documentation at
><http://home.netscape.com/newsref/std/cookie_spec.html>. Are there others
>you know of?
>
>- What are the best and/or worst uses of cookies that you've seen?
>Examples might include shopping carts and email address collection.
>
>- What are your opinions on the use of cookies? Do you feel it's an
>invasion of privacy or do you like that some sites recognize you when you
>return? Do you set your browser to warn you before accepting a cookie? Do
>you use cookies on your sites?
>
>And lastly... Got milk?
>
>
>___________________________
>Wendy Clark
>New Media Development Group
>http://www.nmdg.com
>clark@portland.com
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>[ Web Producer's Mailing List ]
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:08:27 -0600
From: Greg Lindsay <greg@babelfish.net>
Subject: Web Design "Manifestos"

Hello to everyone on Babble;

Normally, I'm an avid lurker on Babble, but I'm currently writing a
piece for The Netly News (www.netlynews.com) on Web design "manifesto"
books, specifically David Siegel's "CKWS" and his latest "Secrets of
Successful Web Sites," plus Clement Mok's "Designing Business" and Roger
Black's book (I can't remember the name offhand).

I'm hoping that members of the Babble list, who are by and large
experienced web designers, might be interested in speaking off list about
your experiences with these books, not only as they might apply to your
personal experience but also the climate in which you work. I noticed in
the recent thread about "CKWS" that someone mentioned a client who wanted
a site that conformed exactly to that book's guidelines for site design. Is
this a common occurence? How many times have you met someone who has read
"CKWS" and now thinks they are a top-caliber web designer? And then there
is the whole contronversy over the "single-pixel GIF trick" which even
Siegel himself has shyed away from. Is the web design world better off with
the single-pixel trick?

And I also hope you could give me a little feedback on Black's and
Mok's philosophies as well. Black seems to me to be the prototypical print
designer making the jump to web design, and his attitude that certain
traditions of print design (e.g. "make it big" and use red, white, and
black whenever possible) are also truisms on the Web as well. Does Black's
designs cut it in the real world? And is Clement Mok right to assume that
web design and software design are growing closer together?

Any opinions you can give me are welcome. Like I said though,
please write to me off-list with your replies. Thank you very much for your
time.

Greg Lindsay

greg lindsay
the netly news
815 932 2959
greg@babelfish.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:39:11 +0000
From: rwilliams <rwilliams@webmedia.com.au>
Subject: Re: vector graphics

> >From reading messages on this list, I have noticed that some people use
> Illustrator to create web pages, so that they can make graphics that look
> good on the web and in print. David Siegel also notes that he uses
> Pagemaker or Quark to create web sites (in the second edition of CKWS),
> also for the same purpose.
>
> How does one accomplish this without getting that terrible aliasing (that
> becomes smoothed when printed) for use on the web?

I use Freehand often, I export the file as an EPS then import it into
Photoshop. It will give choices on resolution, anti-aliasing etc. If
need be render at twice size then use PS to scale down. One catch,
colours are not reproduced faithfully but flat colours are easily
replaced using PS.
- --
Regards

Richard Williams
Web Designer & Artist
Web Media Australia

http://www.webmedia.com.au/webmedia
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 16:29:26 -0800
From: Kevin Travers <kwt@highfive.com>
Subject: testing!

we have been having server issues, just testing the list. bear with us!
we'll be back in action shortly.

Thanks,

Kevin Travers
H I G H F I V E
kevin@highfive.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 16:43:00 -0800
From: Dustin Blake <dustin@dblake.com>
Subject: Photoshop image cut-up

>As many of us do, we work a great deal with images
>created in Photoshop and then diced up to produce
>GIFs to be pieced together on a web site.
>Unfortunately, every change to an image requires the
>back-breaking process of re-cutting up the images.
>Is there an automated, simple way to do this in PS
>3.x? or 4.x? Maybe we've been looking over something
>obvious.

>Maybe a plugin? Anyone up to writing one? It should save
>the grid and the output filenames.

Ironically, I had just been wondering this... I setup a solution for a
client once that didn't want to buy/learn photoshop and use it on her
machine. We used Microfrontier's ColorIt! 3.2 (a nice program for basic
use) and it had one feature that I wish photoshop had...
In the "save as..." dialog box, you could choose "save selection only" So
to create the pages, we simply selected each area of the whole page, and
did a save as. We were able to save each image individually (useful when
you only want one section for an update or are putting images in
different places) and name each separately.

I'm sure someone could write a simple "save selection only" export
plugin... perhaps even one that would simply read the size of the
selection, copy the image, place in a new window with that dimension, and
then bring up the regular gif export dialog box...

If anyone can do this (and it works well) I'll send a can of Alaskan
Copper River Red Salmon!

- -- Dustin

dustin blake

D I G I T A L I N K
. . . . . . . . . . . . .

graphic design,
internet design, & hosting
dustin@dblake.com
www.dblake.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:09:29 +0800
From: Chris McLay <chris@eycon.com.au>
Subject: Re: Photoshop image cut-up

>>As many of us do, we work a great deal with images
>>created in Photoshop and then diced up to produce
>>GIFs to be pieced together on a web site.
>>Unfortunately, every change to an image requires the
>>back-breaking process of re-cutting up the images.
>>Is there an automated, simple way to do this in PS
>>3.x? or 4.x? Maybe we've been looking over something
>>obvious.
>
>>Maybe a plugin? Anyone up to writing one? It should save
>>the grid and the output filenames.
>
>Ironically, I had just been wondering this... I setup a solution for a
>client once that didn't want to buy/learn photoshop and use it on her
>machine. We used Microfrontier's ColorIt! 3.2 (a nice program for basic
>use) and it had one feature that I wish photoshop had...
>In the "save as..." dialog box, you could choose "save selection only" So
>to create the pages, we simply selected each area of the whole page, and
>did a save as. We were able to save each image individually (useful when
>you only want one section for an update or are putting images in
>different places) and name each separately.
>
>I'm sure someone could write a simple "save selection only" export
>plugin... perhaps even one that would simply read the size of the
>selection, copy the image, place in a new window with that dimension, and
>then bring up the regular gif export dialog box...
>
>If anyone can do this (and it works well) I'll send a can of Alaskan
>Copper River Red Salmon!
>
>-- Dustin
>
> dustin blake

Photoshop 4.0 does this through it's actions palette. I use a similar
'action' all the time. You can even set up guides to make drawing the exact
selection very easy.

If you work on the web in Photoshop and you don't use the actions palette
you are wasting to much time at your computer. I have over 60 actions for
web work alone, and they saves me hours a day. Take an hour out and learn
how to use this feature now!

Have fun,
Chris

___________________________________________________________________________

Chris McLay E y c o n S t u d i o
managing director
3b Hubble Street, East Fremantle WA 6158, Australia
Email chris@eycon.com.au Web http://www.eycon.com.au/
Telephone 08 9339 0909 Mobile 041 123 9190 Facsimile 08 9339 0808
___________________________________________________________________________

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End of babble-digest V1 #118
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