Babble v1 133

babble-digest Wednesday, January 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 133

In this issue:
what direction?
Re: Toolbar agony
Re: Do we NEED capital letters?
Re: what direction?
Explorer takes 63% of Web surfers
What do most people do?
re: Creative Resumes
Re: Explorer takes 63% of Web surfers
Re: babble-digest V1 #130
PHILOSOPHY: Mommy! Microsoft's on my side of the seat!
just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water
Chat Software
Re: Creative Resumes
Re: Explorer takes 63% of Web surfers
Re: just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water
Re: vector graphics & the web

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:48:04 -0500
From: Shelby <srogers@worldweb.net>
Subject: what direction?

This is actually something I've been pondering a lot lately. Belly-button
gazing, if you will. As I start looking into post-graduate work, or *some*
kind of focus for my career, I have to ask myself what skills will be
valuable in the future. Where is the Internet going...and its components?

And perhaps it's just because I'm seeking out a way to keep myself
relevant, but I think that Internet applications will become more of a
'production' -- we're already seeing that happen all over the place. But it
will happen more and more, and the productions will get more and more
sophisticated (hey, if I'm just quoting Seigel, I don't mean to. Maybe he's
gotten in by osmosis). That's what I see for the *employment* side of things.

Now....where is the internet going...? Much larger question.

What I've been thinking is that right now, the Net is very limited by a
number of factors (like bandwidth and software and the necessity of some
kind of computer/terminal) -- I don't need to go into all of them here,
because we've been kvetching about limitations for a while now (well, I
have anyway).

And I'm imagining a day when (my parents always accused me of having a
vivid, futuristic imagination...probably why i do this stuff) we don't need
computers. Software? Who needs it. Bandwidth? No problem. Infrastructure
for worldwide access? Already in place.

I suppose that I can only truly conceive of the future of the net in terms
of solving the problems we have now, but none of my ponderings should stop
there.

I suppose I see a world in which many of the experimentational tech
research going on at, say, MIT actually comes into our world as tools we
can use. Talk to anyone, anywhere, any time. Your house is a (Java-based
;-) network. Wearable computers shrink to fit our eyeglasses. Our news is
waiting for us when we walk in the door because our shoes transmit a signal
that we're in our house and ready to receive the day's information. Our
coffee makers know exactly when we're ready to have our first cup, and at
what temperature we like to drink it. Productivity tools -- we won't even
have these clunky things called computers.

Enough belly button gazing for the morning, I think...

shelby rogers/web diva/dc webgrrl/person.html

Whatever you can do or dream you can do, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.
-Goethe
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:09:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Porter Glendinning <ag@cen.com>
Subject: Re: Toolbar agony

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Paul Frost wrote:
> ok, a query for the jscript gurus on the list:
> i've built a page end toolbar which includes a pull down menu and a back button.
> pulldown script=
[snip]
> this works fine. but, i'm trying to combine this with a back button (this by
> itself works fine too) which will sit right next to the pull down box. the
> <form> command seems to insert a break no matter what i do: i've managed to
> produce a workaround which is OK in ie4, but netscape hates it:

I think I understand your problem. If I do, what you want to do is put
the two form elements in a table so that they sit next to each other.
Here's some cheesey ASCII art to illustrate:

+--------+---------------+ <-- Table, borders turned on
|+------+|+-----------+-+| for illustration purposes :)
|| BACK ||| Page 1 |v||
|+------+|+-----------+-+|
+--------+---------------+

If I've missed the point entirely send me a URL off-list, if you can, and
I'll take a look at your problem.

Hope this helps. :)
- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:26:44 +0000
From: "colin" <c.z.robertson@mail.ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Do we NEED capital letters?

Sorry. I know you're all sick of this, but...

On 12 Jan 98 at 18:01, babble-digest wrote:

> We NEED the space bar to seperate words. We NEED vowels for that is
> the structure of our language. But do we really NEED caps (except to
> emphasize certain word in email?). This is an honest question...I
> don't see why we really need capital letters in casual
> communications.

There is more to this question than whether we need caps. Whether we
need them or not, we can use them to improve communication.
lower-case, UPPER-CASE, AlTeRnAtInG-cAsE, etc., all communicate
different things, and surely the factor that should guide us in the
decision about how to use case should be whether what we are doing is
appropriate or not. Giving character to the type at the expense of
legibility can be an acceptable compromise if it is done
appropriately. Hasn't anyone here heard of David Carson?

colin

PS.DoWeReallyNeedSpaces?
__________________ c.z.robertson@ndirect.co.uk ___________________
rational: http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~s.robertson/
arthur kitching: http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~s.robertson/kitching/
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:18:08 +0800
From: Gary Sweeting <gary@neuronet.com.my>
Subject: Re: what direction?

We've had some really nice postings from Lance and Shelby (and even an
admission from Lance that he didn't come from a design background, which
served as great inspiration for me) so I thought I'd share my opinions with
you all. Apologies in advance, I'm known to lose the thread a little.

A brief intro :) As I mentioned a while back, I have a passion for this
medium - as it is now. I enjoy the challenges that we face, in accounting
for the disparate browsers, platforms et al., since they are relatively
easy to overcome. However, it is clear that things could be far better.

If you've ever read Snow Crash or Neuromancer, if you've seen Lawnmower Man
or Johnny Mnemonic you've gained an insight to the future that many of the
cyberpunk genre think awaits us - and I for one want that world. Sure,
jacking in and being hard wired doesn't thrill me, but if time online is
quicker, if I can accomplish and learn more in less time, then give me the
drill. Just as previous programmers were inspired by Dungeons 'n Dragons
etc, it is clear that some programmers are inspired by Stephenson & Gibson
since Java and VRML programmers are already building prototypes which
attempt to capture the same effect (just as governments were seemingly
inspired by Star Wars :). But will this occur? Not in my life time. Java is
not the panacea we thought it would be, it is resource hungry, as any Mac
or Netscape user will verify, and whilst there have been recent product
launches, I think that the Correl move was more significant.

I share Lance's view that Netscape will become but a memory in the future -
and almost look forward to Microsoft taking over. Why? Well, let me clarify
it quickly before I'm slammed. I look forward to ANY company having a
complete monopoly. Many embrace Java since it is cross-platform. If all
computers were PCs running compatible software we would be happy, no? If
all browsers parsed the information similarly and had the necessary
plug-ins pre-installed we would be happy, if all monitors were the same
size/resolution we would be happy. Monopoly's stifle creativity and
entrepreneurship - but the alternative is competing companies attempting to
outdo each other with gimmicks that almost by circumstance can not be
standardised before their release, lest they lose the edge. Each to his/her
own, but I now feel comfortable that the web (though perhaps not quite as
we know it) is here to stay. I think it was the October 1996 edition of
Wired that interviewed the guys from Suck.Com whose mantra was "Sell Out"
before the bubble burst. The entry of Microsoft, the extraordinary growth
of the Internet in terms of people online, but most importantly in the
perception and consciousness of everyone, has ensured that the Web will not
collapse. Intranets are becoming a necessity for some firms, and the
benefits are real.

The web will be dominated by those that can advertise via traditional
media, CNN is the "most popular content driven site" - and the way they
plug the sites it's not surprising. Yahoo! will continue to beat Infoseek,
and I think that this says a lot about those surfing. Perhaps, one day, the
web will become so ubiquitous that people will venture a little further,
when the shopping mall metaphor will completely disappear as people become
more slective and demanding.

Cyncism and hope are the way I approach the future. Have we kept up with
XML, or even CURL? I'm concentrating too much on ASP, sicne Dynamic Fonts,
CSS et al, are still in their nascent stages - good to play with for your
personal creations, but too limited for company sites. Perhaps, if there is
no far-reaching standard, the shift towards server side scripting will go
full circle. Irony?

I have babbled long enough. Not certain what the message is, but perhaps
that is the message :)

Whatever the future holds. I hope to see you all there in the future.
Realtime-streaming video-conferencing <g>..

Gary.

- -----------------------------------------------------
http://www.tanjungrhu.com.my - "Heaven on Earth"
- -----------------------------------------------------
Enterprise Solutions
WebMaster & Information Architect :)
- -----------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:06:58 -0500
From: "Paul in Glens Falls, NY" <pgallipeo@global2000.net>
Subject: Explorer takes 63% of Web surfers

Hello Everyone,

Thought you'd be interested in this while debating which browser to design
for.

Study: Explorer Winning Browser Battle [January 9]
According to a study from management consulting firm
Positive Support Review, Inc. (PSR),
Microsoft's Internet Explorer is edging out Netscape in the browser race,
climbing to 63.3% usage of all Internet sessions.

Positive Support Review's study was conducted over a 16-week period f
from September 9, 1997 through January 3, 1998,
and reportedly included over 550,000 Internet session data points.
Users can purchase the full study electronically for $299.

The research claims that versions 2, 3, and 4 of Microsoft's browsers
were used in 63.3% of all Internet sessions
in contrast to Netscape's, which were used in 35.6% of sessions
during the week ending January 3, 1998.

Positive Support Review says its data reveal that
Microsoft's usage market share increased from 42.1% to 63.3%
in the period from September 9 through January 3.

"Based on analysis of the data, it is clear that
Microsoft's IE 4.0 product is taking market share away
from Netscape," said M. Victor Janulaitis, CEO of Positive Support Review.
"On the bright side for Netscape,
the 4.0 product is holding its own and maintaining a strong market
position."

Source: Internet News Com:
http://www.internetnews.com/prod-news/1998/01/0901-study.html

There is also an interesting graph of which version of IE is being used at:
http://www.psrinc.com/MSExplorer.htm
Some other interesting stuff there as well.

This is all I could find on the company, looking for possible bias:

Founded in 1982 by M. Victor Janulaitis,
PSR is a Santa Monica-based management consulting firm
that focuses on the strategic application of Information Technology
to gain competitive advantage.
They have developed many unique management methodologies
that have helped many Fortune 500 companies downsize
and realize real profits and improved customer service.
Source: http://www.psrinc.com/who.htm

This some info I found on the CEO of PSR:

M. Victor Janulaitis currently is the CEO of a very successful consulting
practice based in Santa Monica, California. Clients he has served span many
industries and are international in scope. His consulting is focused
typically on larger enterprises going through periods of rapid change. In
addition to consulting, he has been called as an expert witness in trials
associated with organizations that have downsized. Mr. Janulaitis was one of
the developers of the ASAP system at American Hospital Supply, and was the
project manager for the roll out of the Infiniti. Both cases have been
studied at prestigious institutions, including the Harvard Business School.
His clients have included Merrill Lynch, AT&T, Kraft, Sizzler, Denny's,
Avon, Hilton Hotels, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Home Savings of America,
Paramount Communications, and Time. Source
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Author=Janulaitis%2C%20M.%20Victor%20/t/68
95-9414793-890498

¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,
The secret of joy in work
is contained in one word - excellence.
To know how to do something well
is to enjoy it.

- PEARL S. BUCK
Courtesy of Angela Conklin

Dr. Paul T. Gallipeo
Adirondack Community College
Queensbury, NY 12804-1498

Professor of English
¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:16:30 -0000
From: "Carla " <cmarina@sprynet.com>
Subject: What do most people do?

Hey Babblers-

This is Carla again, the occasional poster.....I was wondering, since I'm
gonna be doing this freelance, web design, what is necessary to make this
legal, just a business license? I'm sorta ready to open up shop and take
off...Anyone have any advice? I'm only 19 and paying for everything as I
can, so please don't get extravagant on me.. :)

Carla

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carla Maganinho
CB Media
ICQ# 5128418
Cmarina@sprynet.com or Carla@cb-media.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cmarina
http://www.cb-media.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:04:49 -0600
From: Darrel Austin <daustin@isd.net>
Subject: re: Creative Resumes

> I am trying to write a resume, and I want to list all of the sites I
>have done. Does anyone have a template of a "creative resume" or some
>ideas?

Well, if it's a template, then it's not very creative...is it?

Personally, I feel your resume should be your work history, highlighting
positions, responsibilities, and accomplishements.

Your work should be seperate as a portfolio.

The two can and should relate to each other, but the do boith serve
seperate purposes.

- -Darrel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:05:09 -0500
From: Liam Casey <zeppo@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Explorer takes 63% of Web surfers

Funny, I just heard yesterday on the PBS News Hour (formerly
McNeil/Lehrer) that only 39% of surfers use IE, while 58% use Netscape.
Such a conflict of results has me wondering...

- -Liam
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:12:12 +0100
From: Pascale Camus-Walter <camwal@cybercable.tm.fr>
Subject: Re: babble-digest V1 #130

>Subject: Creative Resumes
>
>Hi. I am trying to write a resume, and I want to list all of the sites I
>have done. Does anyone have a template of a "creative resume" or some
>ideas? Thanks!

Is it a "creative resume" of the content of the site or does it concern
your design?

Concerning the last, I posted a message recently (babble #127) about the
portfolio topic:

>I recently visited a site with an original way of presenting the work of a
>webdesigner:
>http://www.zaw-studio.com/studio/Prods/index.html
>He shows little clickable screen-shots of his sites.I find this very
>effective and also a nice design.
>Your opinion? Has annybody other good examples of cool presentations of a
>webdesigner's work?

someone answered me off the list ( :-(, It did not become a thread..) that:
>plenty of places do similar stuff in terms of screenshot-thumbnail material.
>verso do a better job than most at this type of layout (www.verso.com).
>ironic.
>i think the site you mention actually isn't so hot, all filters and no
>brains to me, but then that's just my opinion. try visiting any of the
>ippa design agency
>listed places (esp prophet communications) @ www.ippa.org

But I maintain that zaw-studio acts more like a designer, because
he included in the screenshots the browser, which I find honest. In the
web, border never equals zero, because, when you must browse, there will
allways be a machinery somewhere,and this one participates to the design,
at least it frames it. So he didn't "make-up" his design with cutting the
border.
I agree that verso.com presents the work in an efficient way, but,
in it, I can feel the sites, and in zaw-studio, I CAN FEEL THE DESIGNER.
When you click on a screenshot, you get an enlargment in the right frame,
and it's here that you get the factual information about the site in a
written form. Notice that only the text is clickable, and not the image.
For me, it's totally different from the strategy of verso.com, where images
are direct links to the sites.

+---------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Nota Bene: + THE ORIGINAL GOAL WAS
J'ai change d'e@mail!!! + WORKING TOGETHER
camwal@cybercable.tm.fr + Tim BERNERS-LEE
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Dessins: http://www.cybercable.fr/~camwal/
Des seins: http://web.superb.net/apastras
+---------------------------------+----------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:21:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Porter Glendinning <ag@cen.com>
Subject: PHILOSOPHY: Mommy! Microsoft's on my side of the seat!

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Paul in Glens Falls, NY wrote:
[snip]
> Study: Explorer Winning Browser Battle [January 9]
> According to a study from management consulting firm
> Positive Support Review, Inc. (PSR),
> Microsoft's Internet Explorer is edging out Netscape in the browser race,
> climbing to 63.3% usage of all Internet sessions.
[snip]

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Liam Casey wrote:
> Funny, I just heard yesterday on the PBS News Hour (formerly
> McNeil/Lehrer) that only 39% of surfers use IE, while 58% use Netscape.
> Such a conflict of results has me wondering...
[snip]

Not to belittle the high and mighty browser wars that make all our lives
Hell, but who cares? Is there any rational developer who is going to
alienate 30-40% of the browsing population -- whichever browser you
believe to be in the minority -- without a damn good reason?

It's a lot like two kids fighting over the back seat: really damn
annoying, but not serious until one pushes the other out the door. Until
then we'll have to find the creative little hacks that make our pages work
in both browsers.

We span the gap. We find solutions where none exist. We create art with
both hands tied behind our back. We don't explore the frontier; we make
the frontier. We are Web Designers -- it's our job.

- - Porter "General Patton" Glendinning

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:59:28 +0000
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
Subject: just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water

happy greets all

i'm not even gonna begin to justify 4 posts in a day. just don't. OK.
as in an earlier post, i'm making a toolbar. and it needs a back button. now, my
earlier problem was wisely resolved by the lovely Porter. Many thanks.

But now i have another problem. the javascript which is supposed to send it back
doesn't work. not of my own making, though the guy who produced it swore it
would. fine in ie but death in nn:

</form>

is thus the code.

any suggestions?

i've already signed away my first child, so it'll have to be undying gratitute
in terms of rewards. i suppose i could always do some sorta deal with my soul...

thanks
paul

"don't know about you but i am un chien andalusia"
Paul Frost Web Development
www.phw.co.uk Priority Healthcare Wearside
paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk Sunderland, UK
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:24:17 -0500
From: heidi@mindspring.com (Heidi Hurst)
Subject: Chat Software

I have a client who would like to conduct a focus group on his web site,
but doesn't want to spend much on software (so I think having someone
else's logo appear across the top would be okay). Does anybody have an
opinion about a chat program that is easy to install and use?

Thanks,
Heidi

_____________________________________________________
Stein Communications Phone: 404-875-0421
1255 Williams Street Fax: 404-876-7209
Atlanta, GA 30309 www.steincommunications.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:32:01 +0000
From: Paul Frost <paul@hpromo.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Creative Resumes

In message <l03130303b0e2ae4e123b@[206.29.245.74]>, Darrel Austin
<daustin@isd.net> writes

<echo>
>Well, if it's a template, then it's not very creative...is it?
</echo>
{insert witty greetings HERE}

creative resumes... yawn: i did something for a friend which lives @
www.phw.co.uk/shaukat/ and it may or may not give you some idees. but it only
works well with java/ie4/etc. i know, no lectures please. it was designed to
impress a manager who he knew was gonna be using a specific set up, so it was
designed around that. well, it worked anyhow, so it wasn't that bad. sides
which, we had fun doing it.

well i did anyhow.

knock yourselves out, my brethren

why does no-one use png? why do stars suddenly appear, everytime you are
near....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:12:35 -0500
From: Kurt Schlatzer <kurts@haht.com>
Subject: Re: Explorer takes 63% of Web surfers

We've been monitoring what browsers access our site for a couple years now
and consistently see Netscape ahead of the race. Usually about a 60/40
split. Older versions of IE are more prevalent than the newer ones.

Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:59:13 -0500
From: Porter Glendinning <pglendinning@cen.com>
Subject: Re: just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water

At 07:59 PM 1/14/98 +0000, Paul Frost wrote:
[snip]
>But now i have another problem. the javascript which is supposed to send it
>back doesn't work. not of my own making, though the guy who produced it swore
>it would. fine in ie but death in nn:
>
><form><INPUT TYPE=image
>src="tooler2.gif"
>align="top" width="63" height="22"
>VALUE="Back" onclick="history.back()" border=0>
></form>
[snip]

If you're trying to communicate across windows you'll need to reference
that when accessing the history object. For example, if you spawn off a
remote control window, you'd want to do something like this:

window.opener.history.back()

If you're just having trouble getting the back() method to work, try using
history.go(-1). They are essentially the same thing, but you never know...

- - Porter

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Porter Glendinning pglendinning@cen.com
WWW Developer http://www.serve.com/apg/

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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:05:32 +1100
From: daniel keating <keeto@netinfo.com.au>
Subject: Re: vector graphics & the web

You can sidestep the problem of quark eps's by using a small shareware
program called Eps Converter by Artemis Software which was provided with
photoshop 3.0 on the CD-Rom under 'third Party products'. This program
converts any eps into an illustrator eps and I have used it to translate
QuarkExpress eps's in the past however this removes any inline images
(at least it did with PS3). According to the documentation it will also
clean up standard eps's as well as creating preview images for them. I
hope this helps.

daniel keating:)

------------------------------

End of babble-digest V1 #133
****************************

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