Posted by Heather on November 20, 1997 at 01:52:10:
In Reply to: Re: Santino vs. Armand posted by Cecilia on November 19, 1997 at 16:43:48:
: : : yeah, but Khayman likes Armand, and he is stronger than Eric. (I feel silly, but I am really having fun).
: : But Khayman doesn't pay much attention to minor things like civil wars and dissention among the ranks. And if Khayman did anything against Eric, Maharet might just get involved. She still cares deeply for him, even though she doesn't much like Santino.
: I am sure Khayman would be at Armand's side. And besides, Maharet would agree to have her baby rid from Santino.
: : Also something else. We don't know exactly how powerful Eric is, but my guess is that he is equal or above Lestat. He has traveled with Maharet for at least a thousand years, and I *highly* doubt that that relationship was all platonic. More likely that there was quite a bit of blood sharing over the years and since Maharet is fourth down form the source of all power, that blood, combined with Eric's own age, would make him really, really strong. So Khayman is probably not all that much stronger than Eric, for surely there must be a power thresh-hold for the vampires.
: Yeah, but if Maharet and Khayman get rid of santino together...
: : : Well, Marius certainly *dissapeared* after that. But Santino made all that mess for nothing, he could have learned a lot from Marius. Finally, he, Santino, also had to change.
: : Yeah, right! Marius would have killed him. Remember Marius told Lestat that he had killed other vampires for knowing the old legends. (Did he ever go after any because they knew *him*? I can't remember. Marius would have taught Santino nothing. Why should Santino try to learn from him then, especially when he was a threat to his power?
: : Santino was right not to try and learn anything from Marius. If the legends had not been true, yet Santino spared Marius, this would only have given Marius an opportunity to gather his power and grind Santino into vampire meat.
: Well, maybe Marius would have killed him. But do you really think it would be a great tragedy? (running to hide behind Armand so you can't catch me)
: : : And Armand won that game! (smile)
: : He did not!!
: He did.
: Cecilia
All right Children...
Nobody won the game...
There was no game...
There never was a competition...
You both have got it in your heads that Santino and Armand are the two most deceitful vampires to ever prowl the face of the earth...
You actually think that they had this grudge match going for 500 years?
Santino:
Santino was a fledling vampire when he developed the first coven...He still thought like a human when this happened hell bent on revenge... In his grief he made up a coven where a group of vampires can live together peacably without the threat of another vampire destroying them...They of course, had to have rules and Santino had a vision one night that vampires were of the devil...So he went with that...Like I said before, Santino was a fledgling...He hadn't even lived a century yet...Knowledge takes time...
Santino didn't kill Armand because Armand was an impressionable young fledgling who could easily learn and obey the laws of the coven...It wasn't to ruin Armand or Marius...Covens are always looking for new followers...
Simple...I don't see why you have to make everything so complicated...In your everyday lives do you think about deceit and plotting? Verry few people do...Vampires are no exception to this rule...
Years later Santino lost his faith in everything he had worked so hard to accomplish...Doesn't neccesarily mean Mael or anyone else was after him...Doesn't even mean that someone convinced him that his ways were wrong..He just had a revelation that everything he'd been doing was based on a lie...The same thing can happen to a mortal...
So Santino abandoned his coven...For the very simple reason of the fact that he didn't want to confront his children...He didn't want to have to tell them that everything he'd been teaching them for 600 years was a lie...
Santino made a mistake...That's all..He regrets it now as would any mortal who made a drastic mistake...
Armand is a different story...He has to be deceitful...Can you blame him? He has the face and body of a 17 year old boy....He has had a shitty life with nothing but bad luck...He feels that everyone he has ever loved or cared about has betrayed him...So he uses whatever means he can to get someone to love him...Yes...Even Louis...And Yes, Louis loved Armand...And Louis was attracted to Armand or he wouldn't have let his guard down when Claudia was destroyed...He wouldn't have left with Armand instead of Lestat...And don't give me that crap that Louis thought that Lestat was dead...Louis went into every room of that theatre when he was destroying it and he didn't see Lestat...He knows he didn't kill Lestat...He just uses that for an excuse so he can leave with Armand...Denial perhaps..Call it what you will...
All in all..IT's very simple...Not complicated at all...I felt while reading your arguments that I was reading stereo instructions...Santino isn't evil...Armand isn't evil, though, he'd like to think he is...They were once human being like you or me who were given the dark gift...May I ask what you would do if the same happened to you?
Vampires are not gods...They are flesh and blood...They think...They feel...They long...They suffer an enternity of lonliness...
They do what they have to in order to survive...
That's why Armand and Lestat are my favorites...
And that's also why I admire Santino so much...They all survive no matter what they have experienced in their lives...They survive...
Everyone makes Santino out to be the bad guy...Why? Because he made a few mistakes?
He learned from them and has moved on...So has Armand...There is no game...If there ever was, it was finished a long time ago...
Heather