Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:30:40 +0000
From: Kenny
Subject: Film Ending

Hi Folks

I'm looking for your opinion about the ending of the film. Do you think
Ste is going to move out of the estate, and go to the pub with Sandra
and Jamie?

I don't think Sandra would leave Ste in the situation he is in, and Leah
says to Ste "I wish I was the one that was leaving".

What does everyone else think?

--
Kenny

*****************************************************

From: Paul
Subject: Re: Scott Alert (Light Lunch)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:45:24 -0000

> Say... what is Light Lunch?? We in the US don't get Channel 4!

It is a really (really) bad talk show where they interview guests. THis is
the first time I have actually enjoyed watching an episode.

- Paul

*****************************************************

From: Paul
Subject: Re: Ben on Light Lunch!!
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:13:18 -0000

>> Say... what is Light Lunch?? We in the US don't get Channel 4!
>I'm going on Light Lunch next wednesday evening!! I've been on before!
>:-) Mel and sue are my friends!

What, seriously? When, I'll have to keep a look out.

- Paul

*****************************************************

From: "Ben
Subject: Re: Ben on Light Lunch!!
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:04:00 +0000 (GMT)

> Are you going to be outed on air this time?
No I won't be doing that as I will (hopefully) tell my parents next
weekend.

> Oh and when are we likely to see you beutiful mug on TV?
Wedenesday evening, between ER and Friends (I think, it's going out in
the evening!)

Speak to you soon!!

Ben. xxxxx

*****************************************************

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:15:41 -0600
From: Gary
Subject: Re: Film Ending

Kenny wrote:
>
> Hi Folks
>
> I'm looking for your opinion about the ending of the film. Do you think
> Ste is going to move out of the estate, and go to the pub with Sandra
> and Jamie?
>
> I don't think Sandra would leave Ste in the situation he is in, and Leah
> says to Ste "I wish I was the one that was leaving".
>
> What does everyone else think?
>
We've talked about this before, but I've never thought of it in
connection with Leah's line until you mentioned it. Is she saying that
just about Jamie, who _is_ leaving? Or are we to understand that, of
the three (Jamie, Ste and Leah), she is the one that is _not_ leaving?
Not sure of the answer. Hmmm.

> --
> Kenny

And I have that Wil Wheaton page bookmarked. :)

Gary
--

*****************************************************

From: Donald
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:20:24 EST
Subject: Re: Film Ending

Good point, I never paid that too much attention, honestly. I think Sandra
would let Ste move in with them--with restrictions. She seems to be ok
with
all of it, but I also feel she is a good mom and would not allow too much
cohabitation to take place...if you know what I mean. :-)

I am glad you brought this up, I too am interested in other's views.
Donald

*****************************************************

From: Donald
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:25:19 EST
Subject: Re: Scott Alert (Light Lunch)

When you say "really (really) bad talk show" what exactly do you mean by
bad?
Do you mean pornographic or what? I can't see our BT Beauts doing anything
too
bad other than a nude or two. (FOR ME???) LOL
Donald

*****************************************************

From: DC
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:06:33 EST
Subject: Re: Film Ending

In a message dated 98-02-17 19:20:58 EST, Kenny  writes:

<<
I don't think Sandra would leave Ste in the situation he is in, and Leah
says to Ste "I wish I was the one that was leaving".

What does everyone else think? >>

At first I agreed with you -- but if you listen to the "Dream A Little
Dream
of Me" lyrics - they suggest that Jamie and Ste are separating
(geographically, in my book -- not emotionally!!).

I'm working out a scenario for stories archive that does get them together
in
a way that I think makes sense, but I'm also writing and grading papers,
so it
will be awhile before I post it. Suffice it to say, it will have happy
ending!

Dirk

*****************************************************

From: DC
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:16:06 EST
Subject: Re: Gay films

Mark,

Re: your request for gay films:

I enjoyed
Priscilla, Queen of the Desert
Lost Language of Cranes
Maurice
My Beautiful Laundrette
Cabaret is an honoroable mention for the category.

f you can find them, Together Along and Apart From Hugh are interesting,
though slightly depressing films. However, Hugh redeems itself. 

There's also Long Time Companion (major dperessing) and Parting Glances
(some
good romantic scenes). A German film that is humorous is Maybe...Maybe
Not.
All of these are at my local Blockbuster, but, then, I do live in NYC.

When they come out on video, look for Kiss Me, Guido and Different for
Girls.

Wow. There are actually a lot of decent films out there. Holywood should
note this and keep the productoin going.

--Dirk

*****************************************************

From: BTfan
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:20:10 -0500
Subject: BT Mentioned in the Gay Press

[From the current issue of *The Advocate* (Issue 754; March 3, 1978)]

on Pages 51-53, in an article titled "The British are Coming!", the
following brief BT references occur:

"Whatever the reasons, there's a new wave of gay cinema coming out of
England. We've already enjoyed such post-Thatcher exports as *Beautiful
Thing*, *Hollow Reed*, *Different for Girls*, *Alive and Kicking*, and
the film version of Martin Sherman's landmark play *Bent*."

several paragraphs later, there is this:

" 'The difference today,' says documentary maker Ian MacMillan, 'is that
gay film is becoming more mainstream.'

"MacMillan, 33, whose three-part documentary on gay life, *It's Not
Unusual: A Lesbian and Gay History*, was televised in prime time on BBC
2 last March, says the climate is so receptive to gay subject matter now
that *Beautiful Thing*, the story of working-class teenage boys who fall
in love, actually became a crossover hit with straight audiences."

The article includes (among photos from other flms) a small-size version
of the picture of Jamie and Ste looking down off the Bridge, captioned
"Glen Berry and Scott Neal in *Beautiful Thing*" .

Kent
the article is not, unfortunately, a clickable link on the Advocate's
Web Site (www.advocate.com)

*****************************************************

From: "Philippe
Subject: Re: Scott Alert (Light Lunch)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:10:53 +0100

>> Say... what is Light Lunch?? We in the US don't get Channel 4!
>
>It is a really (really) bad talk show where they interview guests. THis
is
>the first time I have actually enjoyed watching an episode.
>

And what did they say ? What did they talk about ?

Phil

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:48:50 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Film Ending

Kenny wrote:
>I'm looking for your opinion about the ending of the film. Do you think
>Ste is going to move out of the estate, and go to the pub with Sandra
>and Jamie?
>
>I don't think Sandra would leave Ste in the situation he is in, and Leah
>says to Ste "I wish I was the one that was leaving".
>

I'm in two minds on this one. In the sad senario we see Ste left behind
with is father and brother...left to a life of uncertainty. It is possible
that Sandra may not able to cope with caring for a second teenager.

The second and more popular senario by most of us here, sees Ste discover
a
new life with Sandra and Jamie...it's seen as the 'safe option', the
'easy
way out' by most observers here.

I think Sandra wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Ste behind, and she'd
feel
really bad if she did, having deserted someone who needed help and
protection.

Andy.

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:00:33 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Gay films

Mark wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone out ther can recommend
>any decent gay films that I can keep an eye out for. Since I live in the
>middle of nowhere, I do not have the luxerey of seeing them in the
>theater but rather on home video. So far, the only enjoyable ones that I
>have seen are JEFFREY, IT'S MY PARTY, MY OWN PRIVATE IDAHO, and THE
>BIRDCAGE. Of course BEAUTIFUL THING...but I guess that goes without
>saying.
>
That a peek at BENT.
You can see previews at http://www.mgm.com/bent/
I'm told by my reliable source it was also a former broadway play.

Then there's the Aussie flick "The Sum Of Us" with Russell Crowe, and who
could forget the other Aussie classic "Priscilla Queen Of The Desert".

Andy
(err...Kent, just how reliable *are* you??!!!)

--

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:04:06 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Ben on Light Lunch!!

>> Are you going to be outed on air this time?
>No I won't be doing that as I will (hopefully) tell my parents next
>weekend.
>

I thought you did that at Christmas. I guess it just wasn't a good time.

A.

*****************************************************

From: "Chris
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:01:58 +0000
Subject: Re: Ben on Light Lunch!!

> > Are you going to be outed on air this time?
> No I won't be doing that as I will (hopefully) tell my parents next
> weekend.

Good luck. I hope it all goes well

>
> > Oh and when are we likely to see you beutiful mug on TV?
> Wedenesday evening, between ER and Friends (I think, it's going out
> in the evening!)

I suppose this means I'm going to have to watch it now aren't I? :-)

--
Chris

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:14:51 -0700
From: Jon
Subject: Re: Gay films

You might want to consider "Torch Song Trilogy" and "Longtime
Companion," which has a scene so powerful that the actor doing the
talking was nominated for an Academy Award (Oscar) for that one scene
alone. I have seen Longtime Companion probably 10 times and still lose
my composure every time.

These are not as upbeat as The Birdcage, but more so than It's My Party.

Jon

*****************************************************

From: "Kent ."
Subject: Re: Gay films
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:57:02 PST

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, local time 21:00:33, Andy wrote:

>... peek at BENT.
>You can see previews at http://www.mgm.com/bent/
>I'm told by my reliable source it was also a former broadway play.

Orginally starring Richard Gere; I saw it starring Michael York (and I
have the autographed Playbill to prove it! :)). The Advocate article
I
posted about yesterday referred to it as a "landmark" play-- I believe
the discussion surrounding its presentation was the first most of us
(me, for sure) had heard of the fact that gays had being separately
identified by the Pink Triangle in German concentration camps.

I am still partial to the (somewhat now-dated) movie "Making Love";
for nonfiction films, I'd recommend "Word is Out" and "Before Stonewall"

as good "Gay History 101"- type documentaries (but, Mark-- you had
started this thread, right?-- I can't say you're that likely to find
those latter two locally in Cortland, NY!)

>Andy
>(err...Kent, just how reliable *are* you??!!!)

Modesty prevents me from replying! <G>

Kent

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:30:54 -0600
From: Gary
Subject: Re: Film Ending

Donald wrote:
>
> Good point, I never paid that too much attention, honestly. I think
Sandra
> would let Ste move in with them--with restrictions. She seems to be ok
with
> all of it, but I also feel she is a good mom and would not allow too
much
> cohabitation to take place...if you know what I mean. :-)
>
That's an interesting issue. Surely, if Ste were a girl who needed
to
get out of an abusive situation and Jamie was in love with this person,
then surely Sandra wouldn't be keen on the two sleeping together at her
new place. So what's she going to do if Ste moves in with her and
Jamie? It may be a nicer place than in Thamesmead, but will she make
them have separate bedrooms? She faces a whole lot of dilemmas of Ste
joins them above the pub.

Gary

> I am glad you brought this up, I too am interested in other's views.
> Donald
> --
> This message was sent via the Beautiful Thing Mailing List

--

*****************************************************

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:59:03 -0700
From: Jon
Subject: Re: Film Ending

Gary wrote:
>
> That's an interesting issue. Surely, if Ste were a girl who
needed to
> get out of an abusive situation and Jamie was in love with this person,
> then surely Sandra wouldn't be keen on the two sleeping together at her
> new place. So what's she going to do if Ste moves in with her and
> Jamie? It may be a nicer place than in Thamesmead, but will she make
> them have separate bedrooms? She faces a whole lot of dilemmas of Ste
> joins them above the pub.
>
> Gary
>

There is major difference between these two cases. I fwere a girl who
moved in with Jamie, their sexual activity would likely produce unwanted
problems, like babies. That is a problem with hetero sex. However,
Ste and Jamie couldn't produce a baby if they wanted to in the worst
way, and since both of them are virgins except for each other, disease
is not a problem either. If it were me, I would allow an underage son
to live with a boyfriend (of appropriate age) in my house, but not with
a girlfriend.

Of course, Sandra, being straight, may see things differently.

Jon

*****************************************************

From: "Dave
Subject: WAFFLE!
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:15:45 -0000

Hello All (Im new to this list) :-)

Here are some thought about BT (which seems all I can think about this
week
as im on holiday and have watched the film five more times)

Yesterday (18th) I went to an open day at LANCASTER Univercity and before
hand myself and a lesbian friend popped in to the Body Shop (Guess what
comes next)
We were having a brouse and my friend (Jill) calls me over and says

Jill : "You should get some of this"
Me: "What?"
Jill : "Peppermint foot lotion, my chiropodist reccomends it."
Me: (choked with emotion, welling up and ashamed that id not remebered)
Me: Gosh ! what film have you been watching then?!?!?
Jill: Eh?

So I then goes on to explain about BT being so fab and suggets she should
see it.
Any way I just wanted to share the moment. It set me up fot the whole day,
settled my nerves, and Lancaster Univercity didn't seem such a bad place
after that.

Just shows how some things can work out.

*****************************************************

From: "Dave
Subject: Re: Gay Films
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:17:23 -0000

Some of the gay films I have in my collection are-:

Maurice, Prick Up Your Ears, Sebastiene(Hard going unles you can understand

latin)
(Derek Jarman would turn in his grave if he heard me say that)
Victim(early b/w blackmail film), Rocky Horry Picture Show (More camp than
gay)
The Lost Language of Cranes(My saviour through sixth form), Coming Out
(German/Sub), My Own Private Idaho, Edward II, Longtime Companion, My
Beautiful Laundrette, Torch Song Trilogy, Pricilla QoTD, Boyfriends(British

quite bad), Jackson :my life your Fault and of course now BT ;-)

I have not had chance to see Jeffrey or Bent yet are they good? do they
compare with BT? silly question.

*****************************************************

From: "Dave
Subject: Re: Film Ending.
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:22:45 -0000

Sandra would NO WAY let Ste live with them her remark about "Im off to
bed,
5 minutes" is the typical motherly reaction, kind of like saying don't get
up to anything.

During the Peppermint footlotion Scene Ste mentions to Jamie about
"Working
at the Leisure Centre" and as this is the "heatwave" before the proper
summer holidays begin it seems the they will finish school (16 going on
17).
So say Ste gets the job then maybe Sandra will let him rent(sublet) their
old place (as long as hosing don't find out). , especially if Jamie
persuades her. Stes not off the estate but he is out of his fathers and
Trevors way and with this new Job he'll be able to afford to travel to see
Jamie.

Maybe Trevor decides to store some drugs in the place, (causing conflict
between him and Ste or Sandra even if she finds out), Maybe housing find
out
and threaten to kick him out ( Jamie to the rescue). Jamie could turn 17
and get his Drivers licence( Sandra would probably buy him a car as she
seems to spiol him and shed have more money now for being in charge of the
ANCHOR)

Maybe they could go on a holiday and encounter some more "Glouscester"
like
places get in trouble even? but have a happy ending though!

What do you think? crap idea or not.

*****************************************************

From: "Michael
Subject: HE LOVED IT!!!
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:17:56 -0400

Hi there

Jonathan's fabulous boyfriend, Richard, absolutely loved the show last
night even shouted the cast and crew drinks at the Imperial Hotel (home of
Priscilla, Queen of the Desert).

He said Jonathan would be very proud of the production and wished he could
see it. I feel SO wonderful right now.

The actors performed exceptionally well and received rapturous applause
and
a standing ovation to boot!

Thanks for all your support guys.

Cheers
MICHAEL

*****************************************************

Subject: Re: Gay Films
From: robinson
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:35:33 EST

dave;

BEAUTIFUL THING and JEFFREY are apples and oranges. JEFFREY takes a
very comical look at a very serious subject matter. It explore one guys
(Jeffrey's) neurosis about being young and gay in todays New York City.
It has some beautiful scenes and some real campy scenes. Delicious
performances are given by several celebrity cameos; my favorite being
that of Nathan Lane who plays a priest who equivicates the existence of
God with singing a Broadway Showtune. Inside his confessional, this
priest has pictures of Carol Channing and Barbra Striesand hanging. He
then tells Jeffrey that he has also seen the devil...in the existence of
PHANTOM< LES MIZ and SUNSET BOULEVARD. He tops the scene by giving his
best Ethel Merman impersonation, performing "EVERYTHING'S COMING UP
ROSES" from the pulpit. The film also boasts Patrick Stewart, Sigourney
Weaver, Olympia Dukakis, Bryan Batt, Kathy Najimy, Christine Baranski,
and Steven Webber from WINGS as Jeffrey. See it. It is not in the vein of
BEAUTIFUL THING...but then again, what is?Still, it is worth it.

I do not know anything about BENT, but I am interested to hear. take
Care!!

Mark

*****************************************************

From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Gay Films
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:34:28 -0600

I'll add "The Toilers and the Wayfarers." I don't know whether it's
available on video yet or ever will be. But Sundance cable channel had it
last year. If we're talking positive gay films, this is not exactly for
everyone. I'd say this is the closest we get to an American "Beautiful
Thing." That is, the opposite of "Beautiful Thing." Two gay teens from
Minnesota find sex, money and eventually themselves in Minneapolis. It's
a
good film.

And soon to come to video, "Kiss Me, Guido."

Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 10:12 a.m.
Subject: Re: Gay Films

>Some of the gay films I have in my collection are-:
>
>Maurice, Prick Up Your Ears, Sebastiene(Hard going unles you can
understand
>latin)
>(Derek Jarman would turn in his grave if he heard me say that)
>Victim(early b/w blackmail film), Rocky Horry Picture Show (More camp
than
>gay)
>The Lost Language of Cranes(My saviour through sixth form), Coming Out
>(German/Sub), My Own Private Idaho, Edward II, Longtime Companion, My
>Beautiful Laundrette, Torch Song Trilogy, Pricilla QoTD, Boyfriends(Britis
h
>quite bad), Jackson :my life your Fault and of course now BT ;-)
>
>I have not had chance to see Jeffrey or Bent yet are they good? do they
>compare with BT? silly question.
>
>

*****************************************************

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 14:53:11 MET
From: Hannes
Subject: Re: HE LOVED IT!!!

Great!! I'm SO glad for you guys! You got a whole dose of South
African Good Will last night! :)

Hannes

______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: HE LOVED IT!!!
Date: 2/19/98 11:35 AM

Hi there

Jonathan's fabulous boyfriend, Richard, absolutely loved the show last
night even shouted the cast and crew drinks at the Imperial Hotel (home
of
Priscilla, Queen of the Desert).

He said Jonathan would be very proud of the production and wished he
could
see it. I feel SO wonderful right now.

The actors performed exceptionally well and received rapturous applause
and
a standing ovation to boot!

Thanks for all your support guys.

Cheers
MICHAEL

*****************************************************

From: jmcs
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:45:57 +0000
Subject: Re: WAFFLE!
Priority: normal

Hi everybody!!

> Hello All (Im new to this list) :-)

Be very welcome, Dave!!!

> Here are some thought about BT (which seems all I can think about this
week
> as im on holiday and have watched the film five more times)

That's great!! You're on the right track! Five times a day sounds
reasonable. :)

> Yesterday (18th) I went to an open day at LANCASTER Univercity and
before
> hand myself and a lesbian friend popped in to the Body Shop (Guess what
> comes next)
> We were having a brouse and my friend (Jill) calls me over and says
>
> Jill : "You should get some of this"
> Me: "What?"
> Jill : "Peppermint foot lotion, my chiropodist reccomends it."
> Me: (choked with emotion, welling up and ashamed that id not remebered)
> Me: Gosh ! what film have you been watching then?!?!?
> Jill: Eh?
>
> So I then goes on to explain about BT being so fab and suggets she
should
> see it.
> Any way I just wanted to share the moment.

A great story!! Besides, Peppermint Foot Lotion is magical for sore
feet!
I talk from personal experience!!

> It set me up fot the whole day,
> settled my nerves, and Lancaster Univercity didn't seem such a bad place
> after that.

The same thing happened to me with my University.

So, welcome aboard, pal!!!

Take care.

Sandra.

*****************************************************

From: jmcs
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:45:57 +0000
Subject: Re: HE LOVED IT!!!
Hi everybody!!

> Jonathan's fabulous boyfriend, Richard, absolutely loved the show last
> night even shouted the cast and crew drinks at the Imperial Hotel (home
of
> Priscilla, Queen of the Desert).

> He said Jonathan would be very proud of the production and wished he
could
> see it. I feel SO wonderful right now.

> The actors performed exceptionally well and received rapturous applause
and
> a standing ovation to boot!

> Thanks for all your support guys.

> Cheers
> MICHAEL

CONGRATULATIONS!! I sent you good vibes for hours, since I was not
sure
how many hours ahead of Spain you are (10-12, I guess). I'm very happy
for you. (Andy, I'm green with envy!!! I demand a VERY DETAILED
report
once you've seen it!!)

Take care.

Sandra.

*****************************************************

From: "Ben
Subject: Re: Ben on Light Lunch!!
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:52:04 +0000 (GMT)

> >I'm going on Light Lunch next wednesday evening!! I've been on
before!
> >:-) Mel and sue are my friends!

> What, seriously? When, I'll have to keep a look out.
Wednesday night, the 25th of Feb, between ER and Friends (I think). Is
a show with Madonna on (That's the rumour)
*SCREAM!*

Speak to you soon!!

Ben. xxxxx

*****************************************************

From: "Kent ."
Subject: Information, Please! (Was: Re: HE LOVED IT!!!)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:29:33 PST

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Sandra said to Andy:

>(Andy, I'm green with envy!!! I demand a VERY DETAILED report
>once you've seen it!!)
>
>
>Take care.
>
>Sandra.

May I echo that request? Andy, since you will be our on-site Official
Beautiful Thing Mailing List Representative Plenipotentiary <G>, I
would really be interested in your review/reaction/impressions, etc.!
Although a "Dear Diary"-type post would be nice, I hardly expect you to
forgo even one second of your enjoyment taking notes, or anything like
that; but the more you can tell us about the whole evening, the
better
*I'd* like it! (Well, your experiences at the theater, anyway! <G>)

Also, echoing what Michael and Phil said Re: the "Light Lunch" interview

with Scott-- did anyone record it (then my request is that you write
out
as much of a transcript as you can, if you don't mind!); if not, could
anyone provide as much as they can remember of the interview (the
supplied little snippets have been tantalizing, to say the least)! Oh
yeah, about how long did the interview run?

Thanks in advance!

Kent
sorry (kinda!) for the "gimme, gimme, gimme" tone of this! :)

"Ask, and ye shall receive"-- optimistic quote of the day!

*****************************************************

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:02:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike
Subject: Re: Gay films

Mark,

Besides the movies others have suggested so far I haighly recommend "Ma
Vie en Rose" (My Life in Pink) http://www.spe.sony.com/classics/mavieenrose
/. This is a new Belgian film, probably not available on video at this
time. It is about a little boy, Ludovich, who wants (seriously) to be a
little girl and the consequences this has for him and his family. Like BT
it is a very powerful film, although it is considerably more painful.
Fortunately it has a realistically 'happy' ending (otherwise it would have
been depressing as hell). Still, it is VERY well done, great acting,
wonderful screenplay, sensitive and insightful.

Another great film is Lilies (Canadian, released in 1996, the hit of the
1997 San Francisco G/L Film Festival). This is an extraordinary film that
tells a tale of love, betrayal, revenge, retrobution and redemption.
Seriously. You can catch a glimpse of it at: http://www.frameline.org/festi
vals/archive/21st/programs/lilies and

http://www.sundancechannel.com/festival97/webcast/s-388819568.html

Another interesting film is Orlando: http://www.planetout.com/popcornq/db/g
etfilm.html?1889 (I regret planetout takes so damn long to load). In this
film we get Quintin Crisp as the aging Queen Elizabeth I and follow
Orlando through a life that spans that of the British Empire. When the
film begins Orlando is a male but that, by some mysterious but strangely
appropriate miricle, has changed by the films end.

Others include: My Beautiful Laudarette and, one of my personal all time
favorites, Maurice.

Happy viewing.

MW>

At 3:26 PM -0500 2/17/98, robinson wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone out ther can recommend
>any decent gay films that I can keep an eye out for. Since I live in the
>middle of nowhere, I do not have the luxerey of seeing them in the
>theater but rather on home video. So far, the only enjoyable ones that I
>have seen are JEFFREY, IT'S MY PARTY, MY OWN PRIVATE IDAHO, and THE
>BIRDCAGE. Of course BEAUTIFUL THING...but I guess that goes without
>saying.

Mike

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:10:44 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Information, Please! (Was: Re: HE LOVED IT!!!)

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Kent quoted Sandra, who said to me:!!!
>On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Sandra said to Andy:
>>(Andy, I'm green with envy!!! I demand a VERY DETAILED report
>>once you've seen it!!)
>>
>>Take care.
>>Sandra.
>
>May I echo that request? Andy, since you will be our on-site Official
>Beautiful Thing Mailing List Representative Plenipotentiary <G>,

In case anyone is lost on this I'm attending the penultimate performance.

>Although a "Dear Diary"-type post would be nice, I hardly expect you to
>forgo even one second of your enjoyment taking notes,

Knowing the quality of many discriptive expressions, don't expect much
more
than a simple "it was great"!!! I'm not exactly famous for letting my
creative literary juices flow.

Andy
13 days to go.

--

*****************************************************

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:17:02 -0800
From: "jean.
Subject: re: gay films and endings

Check out WILD REEDS: French, very pretty, vaguely political.

Mark, re LVC!: I suppose you might consider it more as a portrait than as
a
sequence of events. He does use nice colors...

The ending: I still can't bring myself to touch it! That is unless Ryan
and
Trevor are outed by Miss Chauhan. And Mr. Bennett starts circulating the
polaroids he's
got of Ronnie performing at the Gloucester and...

*****************************************************

From: "Kent ."
Subject: re: gay films and endings
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 04:14:22 PST

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Jean explained someting to me about which I'd lain
awake many a night pondering, when she said:

>[...] And Mr. Bennett starts circulating the
>polaroids he's
>got of Ronnie performing at the Gloucester and...

Thanks so much, Jean! Y'know, I'd always wondered just *where* he was
going in that spiffy green jacket!! (And won't he knock the guys dead
in that Ready-for-the-Runway number-- whatta*hunk*!!) <G>

Kent

*****************************************************

From: Eric
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:52:28
Subject: RDR: Website Updates

Hellooooooo!

Well, A few updates to my Beautiful Thing Website

I got my February issue of Attitude, so I have posted the interview and
pictures of Scott Neal
(Magazines..... Attitude......2/98)

I also have added a German Poster to the Posters page (Pix... Posters) and
a swell picture of Jamie
as Jarvis (Pix... Misc).

There is more to come......

Best,

Eric

*****************************************************

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:13:39 -0500
From: Keith
Subject: Re: Gay Films

Hey all ,

While on the topic of gay-themed movies, there is a really nice video/movie

companion specifically on gay movies - it's called "Images in the Dark",
edited
by Raymond Murray. It is published locally here in Philly by the video
chain
"TLA" (theater of the living arts) which is gay owned. The book is
available
nationally though (in the US) and I believe also through such internet
sellers as
Amazon.com. I highly recommend it. It rates the movies, provides
detailed
plot
descriptions, and has all kinds if category breakdowns (director, star,
etc) It's a trade
paperback, and sells for about $20. I think there is a TLA video in New
York City now,
too, for anyone in that neck of the woods.

Keith

(PS - nobody mentioned Wild Reeds - I heard that was quite good. I liked
Jeffrey and
Longtime Companion. Bent was ok, but not great.)
--

*****************************************************

From: matthew
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:53:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Gay Films

I just saw MA VIE EN ROSE. It is lovely, touching, and funny -- a
younger version of BT. I highly recommend it. As someone else said, it
has a realistic and happy ending. I liked the way the symbolism of a
children's costume birthday party was used to represent the idea that we
are born as we are and the costumes we wear mean little. We should
include it with BT in our discussion. MATT

*****************************************************

From: "Kent ."
Subject: Ma Vie en Rose-- a General question
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:27:19 PST

On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Matt wrote:

>I just saw MA VIE EN ROSE. It is lovely, touching, and funny -- a
>younger version of BT. I highly recommend it. As someone else said, it
>has a realistic and happy ending.

Hiya, Matt!

I don't want to spoil the movie for people who haven't seen it (myself
included), but from the (admittedly little) I understand of this movie,
isn't the basic premise that the little boy character is someone who
has
always wanted to be a girl? That being so, I suppose the fact that
the
movie has a happy ending makes it like BT, but (apart from the
significant fact that transsexuals are similarly oppressed and reviled
for only wanting to be who they are-- and for that deserve our support
in their quest for equality) I don't see how transexuality relates to
homosexuality. It seems to me that if anything, transsexuals are more
akin to straights, in that their feelings are for the opposite sex, but
they are trapped in the "wrong" body. Do you mean it's "a younger
version of BT" because the title character stands up for what he
believes in?

I am interested in seeing the movie, too!

Kent

*****************************************************

From: Michael
Subject: Oz Play Success
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:21:42 -0400

Dear Listers

Jonathan Harvey has given me the rights to direct the Australian
professional touring production of Beautiful Thing. Work begins in March
on
the major mainstream production which will open in Sydney then tour the
country. I am now officially a director by profession!!!

Cheers
MICHAEL

*****************************************************

From: ep
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:07:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Oz Play Success

At 11:21 AM 2/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Listers
>
>Jonathan Harvey has given me the rights to direct the Australian
>professional touring production of Beautiful Thing. Work begins in March
on
>the major mainstream production which will open in Sydney then tour the
>country. I am now officially a director by profession!!!

Congratulations!! And the tour will be coming to Europe and the US when??
:-)

-Eric

*****************************************************

From: matthew
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:11:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Ma Vie en Rose-- a General question

Hi, Kent. The boy feels that he is a girl in that he wants to marry a
boy. He is called "bent" by other children (who learn the word from
their parents) and his mother, in anger, explains that "bent" means boys
who like boys. He is searching for his identity. We never find out what
happens later to him -- but that's not the point. Is he gay, bi,
transgendered, or a pre-opeative lesbian??? Makes no difference. He
knows who he is and then -- finally -- others accept him as the person
he is. You notice I said "he," not "s/he" or whatever odd words might be
used. He is a boy but he feels like a girl. That's the best way he can
describe it in the words of a 7 year old. MATT

*****************************************************

From: Warwick
Date: 23 Feb 98 18:30:52 +0000
Subject: Re: Oz Play Success

> Dear Listers
>
> Jonathan Harvey has given me the rights to direct the Australian
> professional touring production of Beautiful Thing. Work begins in March
on
> the major mainstream production which will open in Sydney then tour the
> country. I am now officially a director by profession!!!
>
I thought you already sounded very professional from this side of the
planet.
Congratulations and welldone mate
Keep us informed of your progress and your tour dates and locations so
I can tell my friends to get out and see the show

--
Warwick

*****************************************************

From: jmcs
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:43:31 +0000
Subject: Re: Oz Play Success
Hi everybody!

> Dear Listers

> Jonathan Harvey has given me the rights to direct the Australian
> professional touring production of Beautiful Thing. Work begins in March
on
> the major mainstream production which will open in Sydney then tour the
> country. I am now officially a director by profession!!!

> Cheers
> MICHAEL

WWWWOOOOOWWWW!!!! A dream come true!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! It's a
privilege to do what you are meant for. I'm very happy for you!!

Just one question: since I know nothing about the theatrical profession
maybe I'm talking nonsense... Anyway, in this professional touring
production of BT, will you keep the same cast members or will you have
to
choose new actors and start rehearsing all over again? I've only seen
the
poster in Eric's site but I must confess I've grown very fond of Simon
and
Andrew...

(Andy, I'm more and more green with envy!!!)

Incidentally, why hasn't any of you commented on how *damn* cute Glen
looks in Eric's new picture? (sigh!)

Take care.

Sandra.

*****************************************************

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:48:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike
Subject: Re: Ma Vie en Rose-- a General question

Hi Kent,

I think Matt is right about Ma Vie en Rose. You'll have to see it to see
how it is 'like' BT. Like BT it is very well done. Like BT, it takes an
unflenching look at something our cutlure has a tendency to misunderstand,
if not avoid all together. Like BT it takes us into the lives of individual
s and a family that is struggling with something very deep, very real.

I think we have to be very careful with the way we set up distinctions in
our head such as 'gay/bi/transgender/--even 'straight' for that matter. Ma
Vie en Rose is a very intense movie; at least it was for me and my lover
Thomas. True, some of it is humorous, some of it is quite delightful, but
there is a lot of pain in it as well. This pain is not 'gratuitous'. It is
the real pain of real people in a real situation. Of course it's NOT real,
any more than BT is real. But it touches one that way. From viewing it I
learned some things about myself. As a little boy I didn't feel exactly
the way Ludovich is portrayed as feeling. But, interestingly enough, there
were a lot of paralelles. Ludovich endures a world of abuse, a confused
world that will not accept him for who he is.

In the end something is learned. A step is taken toward a deeper understand
ing of this very complex, and not so easily catogorized thing we call
'being human'.

Mike

At 4:27 PM -0800 2/22/98, Kent . wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Matt wrote:
>
>>I just saw MA VIE EN ROSE. It is lovely, touching, and funny -- a
>>younger version of BT. I highly recommend it. As someone else said, it
>>has a realistic and happy ending.
>
>Hiya, Matt!
>
>I don't want to spoil the movie for people who haven't seen it (myself
>included), but from the (admittedly little) I understand of this
movie,
>isn't the basic premise that the little boy character is someone who
has
>always wanted to be a girl? That being so, I suppose the fact that
the
>movie has a happy ending makes it like BT, but (apart from the
>significant fact that transsexuals are similarly oppressed and reviled
>for only wanting to be who they are-- and for that deserve our support
>in their quest for equality) I don't see how transexuality relates to
>homosexuality. It seems to me that if anything, transsexuals are
more
>akin to straights, in that their feelings are for the opposite sex,
but
>they are trapped in the "wrong" body. Do you mean it's "a younger
>version of BT" because the title character stands up for what he
>believes in?
>
>I am interested in seeing the movie, too!
>
>Kent
> 

To which, At 12:11 PM -0500 2/23/98, matthew responded:
>Hi, Kent. The boy feels that he is a girl in that he wants to marry a
>boy. He is called "bent" by other children (who learn the word from
>their parents) and his mother, in anger, explains that "bent" means boys
>who like boys. He is searching for his identity. We never find out what
>happens later to him -- but that's not the point. Is he gay, bi,
>transgendered, or a pre-opeative lesbian??? Makes no difference. He
>knows who he is and then -- finally -- others accept him as the person
>he is. You notice I said "he," not "s/he" or whatever odd words might be
>used. He is a boy but he feels like a girl. That's the best way he can
>describe it in the words of a 7 year old. MATT
>

Mike

*****************************************************