Posted by LP on November 19, 1997 at 14:34:46:
In Reply to: Re: Santino vs. Armand posted by Cecilia on November 19, 1997 at 09:32:10:
: : Why not? From Santino's point of view they were rogue's who needed to be destroyed. They were a threat to his power, heretics, whatever. Marius, and therefore his fledgling had to be destroyed. And Santy was not going to steal him originally. I remember Armand being thrown into a big bonfire before Santino pulled him out.
: Wait a minute, there's no place in the book where it says that Santino was who pulled him out. Actually, if I remember well (and I have a very good memory), all the scene was without Santino. He only appeared later.
It never actually says this, no. However, it can be infered that it was either Santino himself or on Santino's orders that Armand was pulled from the flames. I say this because: It is a given that Santino led the attack on Marius. Rice has said so herself, even if it is not specified in the pages. Armand was taken away in the belly of a ship to someplace else, where there was a big bonfire. A Sabbat. Note the chanting, singing and dancing. Santino would have been present to lead the Sabbat. Santino was leader, and what he said went. If he wanted Armand dead, he would have been thrust back into the flames or killed some other way. Santino then later 'accepts' him into the coven, and tells him of the rules, in a much more formal and intimate manner. Given the hierarchical nature of the covens I highly doubt that the vampires would have a great big bonfire without the coven leader. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.
Also remember that all we know about this are Armand's memories, and given the fact that he was nearly killed, they may be jumbled, hence the lack of detail. Armand was probably too frightened to pay attention to whom was doing what and who was there.
: : I love Armand's concept of love. Interesting to say the least. Dangerous to say even more.
: Everything with a vampire is dangerous. Armand was jealous. If you remember, when he saw Lestat he was happy (Lestat said so), but when Lestat started talking about Louis and *give me your blood* as if poor Armand were a blood container...
I'm not so certain it wasn't more along the lines of Armand wanting Lestat to submit to him. Lestat's admitting love to Armand would have been a source of power for Armand, and Lestat didn't want to give him that power, and didn't want to pay that price for the blood. He came to Armand as a friend, and Armand choose to look at it as an estranged would-be lover. Question: Did Armand *really* love Lestat?
: : I've thought about that alot. I can think of a few reasons which I really don't have the time to substantiate, but I can list them.
: : 1) Santino got bored with his little game.
: : 2) There was a power struggle in the coven and Santino was going to lose, so he got out quick. (A challenge to his power.)
: : 3) He got sick of his on sadistic tendancies, so he "reformed"
: : 4) Someone came after him (Mael for instance, in retribution for what was done to Marius.)
: : 5) The coven became too restrictive for him.
: : I am leaning towards either #2 or #5, and maybe #1. And of course, it could have been many factors which lead him to abandon the coven, and the time was just right when he left. (For instance, he knew he was going to leave, and the best way to escape, without killing off the coven which might lead to retribution for other coven leaders) was to make the coven more dependant on him, and then just disappear. Thus the coven is left in confusion, and nobody can sort out exactly what happened. Did he go mad? Did he go into the fire? What?
: I would agree in # 2. However I find # 4 fascinating, I could start liking Mael. (grin)
Now leave Santy alone!!! ;-)
'Sides, Eric's on his side, and Eric's stronger than Mael
: : : Tsk, tsk, blaming the student?
: : That wasn't his primary objective. His primary objective was killing the heretics. Destroying them. Those Who Must Be Kept were myths by Santino's time. There was absolutely no evidence except rumors:
: : "'Did he never tell you? What are Those Who Must Be Kept?'
: : "'And so they did not understand it either. It was no more than a phrase to them as it was to him.'"
: : The mere fact that the rumours might be true was most likely one of the reasons Armand was spared.
: Then you mean that Santino attacked Marius only because he was an *heretic*? I don't agree, they tortured Armand until they were sure he didn't know anything about them.
Because the leagends of the Source Of All Power *might* have been true. But even after torturing Armand there was still no proof.
Having Marius alive and living among humans and creating fledglings was a threat to Santino's power and authority, and it had to be neutralized. And it was. Marius stayed out of the picture after Santy's attack. Objective achieved. (While granted he did want him dead, the goal was still achieved. Other vampires could no longer question, Hey why can't we be doing that?)
LP.